Michael - The Great Album Debate

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

ivy, don't you think the vibrato sounds basically worse in the Cascio tracks than on most Jason Malachi tracks?

I also would like to know, to the people without doubt.. What is your justification anymore for the vibrato?? Do you think that it is due to processing? Then how can you explain the way the vocal is performed? It seems clear, at least to me, that the shaky/goat/laugh vibrato is the way these tracks are sung, not due to processing. Also, why would Michaels voice need processing other than making the vocals more clear? Why messing with the vibrato?

Well I think the vibrato was indeed screwed up.Even the samples from other samples have that weird vibrato.

Eg. `Hee-Hee-Hee` - Breaking News - weird vibrato.
`Hee-Hee-Hee` - ITC - normal vibrato.

I've said before I always believed the vibrato is processed. While the vibrato in the Cascio tracks and Malachi's own are extremely similar, to the point of sounding identical, Malachi's natural vibrato is shorter in duration, if you've ever listened to any of his songs. When compared to Michael's vibrato, Michael's seems "longer" because it's natural, and naturally fades away.These songs possess an almost rapid vibrato, which seems to have been altered to appear natural and more "Michael".


That's what it looks like to me anyway.

@Ivy, your comparison excludes the voice timbre. The Cascio's voice timbre and Malachi's are identical.
If you exclude the voice timbre from the comparisons then you can say that anyone who has one-breath-long-lines-capacity singing is MJ?

Two options:

1) The voice timbre on the Cascio tra.cks sounds like Michael because the voice was processed (but why to the point to ressemble Malachi's voice?)

As you all know that I think that processing had an effect on these vocals. Yes the shakiness is there and yes even sometimes more so obvious than Jason Malachi vocals. When you look to this subtle differences it kinda shows you that it's not Jason or you would have to argue that Jason has suddenly developed a better delivery technique and a worse vibrato. And as these vibrato has come to the point to start "weird" and "not natural" that also seems to me like as due to processing. I can't really express it but you would see many musicians to complain that vibrato processing through melodyne makes it "unnatural".

I actually listened to Malachi songs from start to finish for the first time. I've been an advocate of the imposter theory from the first time I heard comparison audio matching the vibrato of the cacsio tracks with Malachi. I am now beginning to question this association. I am starting to notice subtle differences between Malachi's voice and delivery and the vocals on the cacsio tracks. Of course I'll have to wait and see what the other tracks sound like before I decide. In any event I think that it is possible these rough vocals are MJ. Rough vocals are often recorded on a skeletal track with the idea of recording final vocals once the instrumentals are built. You cannot sound but wooden when the track is only outlined with percussion. It is possible that MJ recorded these rough vocals with the intention of completing them once Cacsio or some other producer finished the instrumentals. In the rush to make these tracks releasable Teddy produced the track around the already tweeked or melodyned vocals resulting in the goatish vibrato and the overall quasi-emotionless delivery. This is my current working theory.

That subtle difference has been my point also. The thing is I believe Jason Malachi is way overrated. Before these songs (Cascio) came out and I listened to him I always believed that his impersonation wasn't perfect, sure there was a line or word that he sounded "like Michael" but there were other lines that was obvious that he wasn't Michael. (and that's the reason why I don't give much weight to these comparison videos as they pick and choose lines and words). So you know what I did last night? I hit play on TPIMaster's videos and closed my eyes (so that I wouldn't see his information about the song changes) and I heard two different delivery styles like I wrote.

and Yukon Jack is right and is giving the definition of guide vocals, guide vocals is done on single basic instrument and is given to the musicians so that they can get a better feel and know what's going where and after the music they are re-recorded again. It's not really a thing that you give your all or feeling to.

So let's just hypothetically say we would all donate money, a lot of money, and hire a lawyer, would it be useless?

I think the first step would be to get proof. I would suggest to hire a forensic music expert to compare and check the vocals.

But they are in a better position to do something against it than we are. They could achieve so much with our help. So why don't give it a try? I have the impression that the brothers don't give a fuck about the fake songs and how they harm Michael's legacy. They got endless tweets about this issue but all they are tweeting is "My song blabla...I will sing there blabla...My book blablabla...."
Since it was announced that they agreed to work with Sony, I've been like "Shit, what a bad decision". And look what happened.

and I asked that the other day? What did Taryll do, the same Taryll that promised to protect his uncle's legacy, 10 tweets and that was it. And I don't think Jackson's are lawsuit shy. Joe has filed several lawsuits where he has no standing to make such requests, Katherine adds herself as a witness (when Estate spares her) to the lawsuits of HTWF and Mann to protect these people. Yet all you saw in regards to this vocals issue was a handful of tweets.

I will get more clarification after she speaks to more people at work, but basically, yes, it is useless.

And, getting the Jacksons involved may not help either. They would have to show damages as well. Or they would have to get someone at Sony who was aware of the situation to turn against Sony. They are really in a similar situation we are in. They may have a better chance of speaking to people than we would; but, I really think our hands are tied. Plus the reputation of the family is so tattered that no one would believe them. They are so maligned that they really aren't a threat against a company like Sony.

The only way would be IF they did not give our money back, we could publicly sue and it would become a bigger thing. But it is not very likely. Sony is not stupid and has been in this business of CYA for decades. And, their lawyers would be quick to shut anything down.

I think that KJ and MJ's kids would have a different standing as they are beneficiaries of the estate. As I said before if they wanted they could have gone to probate court to oppose to the album. They didn't do it and I think it passed.

and plus are you talking to your friend about "consumer fraud"? If the vocals aren't Michael's there could also be grounds for "false advertisement" lawsuit.

Thank you, ginvid and Bumper. It's so frustrating!
I still think we should try to go public. I mean it's obvious that they try to shut us up. Just look how fast they are to delete comparisons or demand users to be deleted who provide us with comparisons.
And the thing that baffles me the most is how fans who are against the albums are not allowed to speak their mind in most forums.

I wrote this before. If you mean media by going public then I wouldn't expect that happening with the mainstream media because allegations of moral turpitude crimes is defamation. They wouldn't print anything accusing of Sony / Estate of fraud without the backing proof. And that also explains why people due to their posts can receive cease and desist notices.

 

[ginvid]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

As you all know that I think that processing had an effect on these vocals. Yes the shakiness is there and yes even more so obvious than Jason Malachi vocals. When you look to this subtle differences it kinda shows you that it's not Jason or you would have to argue that Jason has suddenly developed a better delivery technique and a worse vibrato. And as these vibrato has come to the point to start "weird" and "not natural" that also seems to me like as due to processing. I can't really express it but you would see many musicians to complain that vibrato processing through melodyne makes it "unnatural".



That subtle difference has been my point also. The thing is I believe Jason Malachi is way overrated. Before these songs (Cascio) came out and I listened to him I always believed that his impersonation wasn't perfect, sure there was a line or word that he sounded "like Michael" but there were other lines that was obvious that he wasn't Michael. (and that's the reason why I don't give much weight to these comparison videos as they pick and choose lines and words). So you know what I did last night? I hit play on TPIMaster's videos and closed my eyes (so that I wouldn't see his information about the song changes) and I heard two different delivery styles like I wrote.

When I listen to the comparisons, they sound very identical to me. I am not going to say there are not subtle differences, but they are too close to be ignored. The fact that they sound so much more like Malachi to me than MJ would lead me to believe that it is Jason's voice that has been processed and changed to sound more like MJ as oppossed to MJ's voice being over processed. The vibrato being manufactured is not a problem for me.

The change in style would also reflect this. Before, Jason's style was to do an imitation of MJ as Jason. These vocals on these songs would be an imitation of MJ as MJ would do them. Of course they are going to try to make it sound as much as MJ as possible which would mean:

a) Jason would have to work on changing his style even more to reflect MJ's
b) He would not be able to do it as effectively hence we have very weak vocals and notes in some locations
c) what he was not able to do, had to be manufactured artificially

Let's say you have an watermelon with seeds, a watermelon altered to be without seeds, and a honey dew melon.
Watermelon with seeds = Jason, watermelon without seeds = the songs we have, honey dew = MJ.

They all are similar, they are melons. But when you have two that are overwhelmingly more similar than the other two, I would have to conclude that the watermelon with seeds was changed slightly to be without seeds. As opposed to the honey dew being changed overwhelmingly to be a watermelon without seeds. That is why I think it is more likely that the songs are Jason than they are MJ.

(I hope that makes sense. It does in my little head, but who knows! :lol")

 

[Mack]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

CHECK THIS BADBOY OUT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsytRRbvU4A

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^

Loving the melon example. honey dew

Before, Jason's style was to do an imitation of MJ as Jason.

Do you really believe that? That Jason wanted to maintain a unique style and be different from Michael? I know he claimed that but everything that he did and said (also said by his manager - the blessing and curse of his voice) makes me think that his all gimmick was sound as much as Michael possible. So I personally do not think he could have done a better MJ imitation but hold back because he wanted to have a unique style.

Also "logically" this Jason as imposter doesn't really make sense. I mean Birchey told us that there are overloud recordings / level difference between the different takes of the same vocal, there was low quality one take vocals and there was 2 takes combined to make one lead vocal. Doesn't that sound like the most craptastic fake production ever? I mean if you have Jason at hand why not do 100 takes and combine the best of the best, why have low quality and production/recording errors if you have a imposter at hand? why leave that snort in BN? Do you understand what I'm trying to say? Don't you think that if the goal was to fake these songs a better job could have been done? To me it seems like such an oxymoron: that this is a perfect fake that it could fool people , musicians, experts yet it's so imperfect that it hosts multiple errors and it can obviously be determined by just ears?

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@Ivy, despite the subtle difference in delivery technique you noted when listening to the comparisions, do you feel the vocalists have the same timbre?

Jason's voice is similar to Michael's. That's why he manages to confuse so many fans. However, when I play a MJ track and a Jason track, the difference in their voices is noticeable. When I play a Cascio tracks and a Jason track, the difference becomes so small or non-existing. I'm just talking about voice timbre here.

 

[Birchey]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

CHECK THIS BADBOY OUT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsytRRbvU4A

Embedded it XD this ones for all us jokers.

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

CHECK THIS BADBOY OUT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsytRRbvU4A

okay that was funny

@Ivy, despite the subtle difference in delivery technique you noted when listening to the comparisions, do you feel the vocalists have the same timbre?

Jason's voice is similar to Michael's. That's why he manages to confuse so many fans. However, when I play a MJ track and a Jason track, the difference in their voices is noticeable. When I play a Cascio tracks and a Jason track, the difference becomes so small or non-existing. I'm just talking about voice timbre here.

not exactly. to me there was subtle differences in timbre as well (and I see you call it "small or non-existing"). and I wonder the effect of processing.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

The thing is I want to believe the tracks are Michael's. I have nothing to gain but 12 songs to lose if I have doubts. I've given all the theories (guide vocals, shower booth, PVC pipe, etc...) a thought. But, I simply cannot believe Michael would sound like another person if he's not giving his all. The Cascio tracks don't only sound bad to me, but they also sound souless. The demo of Fall Again on TUC is a one-take demo sang the very first time by Michael. That might be considered a guide demo as well. When Michael sang it, he didn't even have time to learn the song. Yet, he sounded as beautiful as usual.

Michael might have just sung some lines of the Cascio tracks. I just don't believe he sang through the song. He's Michael Jackson. He knew how to convey emotion. He didn't even need to try. It's his nature. He just knew how to do it. He knew how to pull people's heart string when he's only 10 years old. How could he sing so emotion-lessly?

 

[KingMikeJ]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

CHECK THIS BADBOY OUT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsytRRbvU4A

Hilarious.

 

[Pentum]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

LOL, it's funny shit!

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

:rofl::rofl: And that, folks, is how it all went down lol

 

[Mack]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Let me just just say...

In my opinion... my educated opinion.... all the songs are fake

Watch the video, thats how it happened

 

[KingMikeJ]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Let me just just say...

In my opinion... my educated opinion.... all the songs are fake

Watch the video, thats how it happened

Cool.

In my opinon... my educated opinion.... all songs are real

 

[AndreyZidane™]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yeah, it pretty much gives you a better understanding on how they faked this. :lol:

@KingMikeJ: Indeed! Real, genuine, 100% Jason Malachi songs, no doubt about it buddy! Well said!

 

[ginvid]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^

Loving the melon example. honey dew

Do you really believe that? That Jason wanted to maintain a unique style and be different from Michael? I know he claimed that but everything that he did and said (also said by his manager - the blessing and curse of his voice) makes me think that his all gimmick was sound as much as Michael possible. So I personally do not think he could have done a better MJ imitation but hold back because he wanted to have a unique style.

Also "logically" this Jason as imposter doesn't really make sense. I mean Birchey told us that there are overloud recordings / level difference between the different takes of the same vocal, there was low quality one take vocals and there was 2 takes combined to make one lead vocal. Doesn't that sound like the most craptastic fake production ever? I mean if you have Jason at hand why not do 100 takes and combine the best of the best, why have low quality and production/recording errors if you have a imposter at hand? why leave that snort in BN? Do you understand what I'm trying to say? Don't you think that if the goal was to fake these songs a better job could have been done? To me it seems like such an oxymoron: that this is a perfect fake that it could fool people , musicians, experts yet it's so imperfect that it hosts multiple errors and it can obviously be determined by just ears?

Thanks!

As we have already all said, the differences between the comparisons are subtle differences. It was not a matter of Jason not sounding like MJ before and then suddenly sounding very close to him. Jason has always sounded very close to MJ. The fact of that is that we have many of his songs on YT being called MJ songs, like Let Me Go. And the fact that some people still can't tell them apart shows that when all is said, he does a good job of imitating MJ. So I don't think it was a matter of Jason holding back, I think it was a matter of motivation of his to do his best and then the producers artificially imitating MJ with what Jason could not accomplish (such as the vibrato).

I think the answer to the second part is the Cascios. Teddy said the songs were already produced before he recieved him. He said the vocals were already incredibly processed and when he received them and he had to process them even more to make the song of quality to put on an album. The Cascios are not master producers. Have you ever seen work from people who know how to use a program but don't really understand the ends and outs of it. (I use AutoCAD and can always tell the difference between a person who can actually use the program and someone who just learned the basics. Yes at the end, in both instances, you have a drawing. But someone who is more skilled can start manuevering the drawing and find a ton of mistakes that only a novice would make). So it doesn't surprise me that we end up with vocals that are pasted together, or vocals recorded loudly in one take and lower in another. The novice mistakes make me believe even moreso that it was work done by a whole set of novices as opposed to a master like MJ and a novice. Music experts are not looking at snorts or pasting together. They are comparing two sets of vocals and saying the probability that they are identical. Because of findings not being given to us, we don't know what kind of "experts" they used. we don't know what vocals they compared to come to their conclusions. We only know the end result, not the journey to get there. So you must excuse us if we are not so immediately receptive to what they say.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

It is disappointing when others can't see the obvious suspicious similarity between the sounds of Jasons vocals, the yelps, the shaking, the notes sang the exact same way, and still there is not ONE comparison with Michael's old music.. Yet Best of Joy was made in a few minutes!

I was that way for a while, too, though, so I can understand.


I would also like to see an example of where someone's vibrato was made into a laughy/goaty vibrato using melodyne. I still have yet to see that.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Well said, ginvid. Also, one must not forget Michael himself was a master of studio recording. He knew the in-and-out of recording. How could he tolerate all those errors and mistakes? How could he recorded a whole song without having Eddie to correct all the errors? See how he stopped the musicians in TWYMMF during the TII rehearsals.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

When you're in ne-e-e-e-hehehehehehehed.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Well said, ginvid. Also, one must not forget Michael himself was a master of studio recording. He knew the in-and-out of recording. How could he tolerate all those errors and mistakes? How could he recorded a whole song without having Eddie to correct all the errors? See how he stopped the musicians in TWYMMF during the TII rehearsals.

Exactly....the whole thing doesn't follow anything of Michael's practices...No, none of us were in studio with him ever, but we can gather from demos, people he's worked with, things Michael has said himself involving recording music and the process of production and what not....None of it adds up to his habits that we've picked up on...And all of this on top of the fact that his voice sounds like absolutely nothing like we've ever heard him sound before...So, it's all so fucked up to believe it's really him....

 

[TPIMaster]

Look to flow

I'm listening to TPIMaster's Monster

"You can look at them coming out the walls
You can look at them climbing out the bushes
You can find them when the letter’s bout to fall
He be waiting with his camera on focus"

singer does full lines in one breath, and ties the next line perfectly that you don't almost hear breathing. and it nicely sounds having a flow.

then comes "room to breath" in the comparison. almost it's like word - stop- word - stop. similar thing at let me let go and the other songs. words are spaced more, breaks between lines are longer. to me Jason's style seriously lacks easy flow

If I wanted to compare full lines with "Monster", I would've picked "Runner Up".

[video=youtube;e9YrsDCQaO8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9YrsDCQaO8[/video]

He sings full lines here just fine. I could pick other songs too, there's quite some full lines in "Don't Walk Away" too. All depends on your definition of "full line".

Just because the man sings a lot of songs in a chopped up way doesn't mean he's not capable of singing full lines. It's a bit grasping at straws, really.

What you may not be aware of is that "Monster" has been sped up noticeably from the original recording so there was enough time for Jason to take a breath between each line. I believe Teddy said it himself that he sped it up, maybe Birchey knows too?

Also:

"Monster" STOP "He's a monster" STOP "He's an animal".

"Why are they" STOP "Never satisfied" STOP "with an all you give" STOP <vibrato grunt=""> <new take=""> "You give em your all" STOP "they're watching you fall" STOP "and they eat your soul".

"Never have I ever been so sure" STOP "Oh no now" STOP "Never thought I'd see you walk in that door" STOP "Oh now yeh" STOP "I can make you feel" STOP "No remedies" STOP "Or would you rather be right here with me?" STOP "I want you right here next to me"

"Anything, oh anything" STOP "to chase the rain goodbye" STOP "when you left with all your dreams" STOP "I couldn't say goodnight" (horrible lyrics by the way)

"She's looking for a job and to find a place to stay" STOP "She's looking for the hope and the empty promises" STOP "She's working two jobs" STOP "Keeping a line"

"Cause this time of ours is borrowed" STOP "we must give a helping hand" STOP "whatever happened to our heroes" STOP "they must get another chance" <vocal overdub:="" we="" can="" do="" it="" again="">.

Or the a cappella of "Breaking News":

"Fall in love" STOP "You're thinking of" LONG STOP "They keep faking, breaking the news".

I could also start saying that tons of Jason songs have the backing vocals singing the chorus while the lead vocals do adlibs and then say "Breaking News", "Monster", "Stay", "Keep Your Head Up" and probably more unheard Cascio tracks do too, but it's a pointless comparison.

And Jason's vibrato is just out of control. There's no consistency ever in his vibrato. Worldwide provided us with a cappellas of "DJ, Don't Stop It" and "Mamacita" among others where on some parts it's exactly the Cascio vibrato, while on other parts it's not. If you listen to "All I Need", it's the same thing. If you were to cut up the line ends from that song and put them next to each other, you'll hear there's no consistency in vibrato.

To say that his vibrato isn't as extreme as the Cascio tracks one is ignorant, here's an example:

http://soundcloud.com/tpimaster/keeping-a-line-2

(From the "Keep Your Head Up" comparisons.)

That vibrato is exactly the same. Not close to, not kind of, exactly.

Anything else?</vocal></new></vibrato>

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I've also thought, since Teddy kept saying he thought Michael was still 'alive' when he worked on the album and that he was just 'doing his work', maybe he thought that Michael was behind the faking of the tracks as part of this whole controversy/conspiracy/death hoax/fake vocalist and so he was just going to stand behind it for Michael since he has really strange beliefs? Just a thought.

btw, another amazing TPI Master post above me. Keep up the great work!

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yup yup. I don't claim to know Michael's recording habits. But, over the years, I've learned a lot from the people who worked with him and from the man himself. Every one of his albums turn out to be some of the best ever created. It's because the man himself was a genius who didn't compromise. He didn't know how to produce mediocre music.

The Cascio tracks may be originated from guide vocals. But, all of us heard some very rough demos from Michael. I just used Fall Again as an example. Again, Fall Again was a one-take demo sung by Michael for the first time. The situation is similar. Someone wrote a song and gave to Michael. Michael decided to try it out and sing a demo. In the recording, we can hear how Michael stumbled on some of the lyrics. It's a demo. It sounded incomplete. But, Michael's soul is there. Don't forget Michael didn't sing a song if he didn't mean it.

The Cascio demos sound more complete than Hollywood Tonight and even Best of Joy. Yet, the emotion is lacking. How are all these adding up?

 

[mjjesamor]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Damn it cartman's video is gone. Jabme music strikes again.

 

[KingMikeJ]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Damn it cartman's video is gone. Jabme music strikes again.

Damn! That's a shame.

 

[mjjesamor]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

It is indeed. Hope u weren't up to your old tricks kingmikej

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I think the answer to the second part is the Cascios.

so then the theory is that Cascio's faked it and was able to fool Sony? again oxymoron?

If I

sorry but first of all those words of "ignorant" and "grasp at straws" is really needed? do you think that's respectful? I wrote this multiple times right or wrong that's my opinion. those adjectives aren't really needed , you can simply debunk me with your opinion.

runner up

I don't think what I'm saying is understood. again this song doesn't have the easy flow , it has stop and go feeling. It's not about how much breathing is there it's how well the next word / line is tied together. words are spaced more, there's a sharp feeling between the words , Cascio vocals have a easy flow to them (breaking news being weakest on this aspect)

To say that his vibrato isn't as extreme as the Cascio tracks one is ignorant, here's an example:

http://soundcloud.com/tpimaster/keeping-a-line-2

you see the visual difference there? Isn't that the point that Annie said that Malachi's natural vibrato is shorter in duration, and Michael's seems "longer ?

 

[ginvid]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

so then the theory is that Cascio's faked it and was able to fool Sony? again oxymoron?

Not an oxymoron at all. Sony is a group of businessmen, not musicians. They are there to make money. They are probably not even fans of MJ. If a song like Let me go can fool even some MJ fans, I can believe that these songs can fool a bunch of businessmen only interested in selling a commodity. The whole purpose of a fake is to fool as many as possible, not to be readily apparent.

If these songs can fool some MJ fans, I am not surprised it fooled a bunch of suits.

 

[Kapital77]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Round 3...

Ivy vs Ginvid

!!! Fight !!!:

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Round 3...

Ivy vs Ginvid

!!! Fight !!!:

ehehehe nah we love each other we don't fight we respectfully disagree

btw - you've been quiet Kapital.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

hahah... i love the popcorn eating gif. i don't like people eating with their mouths open, but i'll make an exception for mike. he's just cute in whatever he did...