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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Birchey said:
but I listen to Michael for hours and hours a day for the last 20 years, we the fans listen to Michael and have his voice embedded in our head because its a passion, not a job. We don't have bigtime reputations to lose like these producers.
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:clapping: Absolutely...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I also would like to know, to the people without doubt.. What is your justification anymore for the vibrato?? Do you think that it is due to processing? Then how can you explain the way the vocal is performed? It seems clear, at least to me, that the shaky/goat/laugh vibrato is the way these tracks are sung, not due to processing. Also, why would Michaels voice need processing other than making the vocals more clear? Why messing with the vibrato?

I think it could be likely that Michael recorded a few lines here and there POSSIBLY but they must have filled in most of it with another person who sounds exactly like Malachi and just wanted to say it was all MJ.

I enjoy the tracks. They could have even been made with love at first and then this all turned into a greedfest for money. I don't know. All I know is that I certainly think a majority of the vcals on the Cascio tracks don't sound like they are sung by MIchael.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram said:
I also would like to know, to the people with doubt.. What is your justification anymore for the vibrato?? Do you think that it is due to processing? Then how can you explain the way the vocal is performed? It seems clear, at least to me, that the shaky/goat/laugh vibrato is the way these tracks are sung, not due to processing. Also, why would Michaels voice need processing other than making the vocals more clear? Why messing with the vibrato?

I think it could be likely that Michael recorded a few lines here and there POSSIBLY but they must have filled in most of it with another person who sounds exactly like Malachi and just wanted to say it was all MJ.

I enjoy the tracks. They could have even been made with love at first and then this all turned into a greedfest for money. I don't know. All I know is that I certainly think a majority of the vcals on the Cascio tracks don't sound like they are sung by MIchael.
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Well I think the vibrato was indeed screwed up.Even the samples from other samples have that weird vibrato.

Eg. `Hee-Hee-Hee` - Breaking News - weird vibrato.
`Hee-Hee-Hee` - ITC - normal vibrato.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I've said before I always believed the vibrato is processed. While the vibrato in the Cascio tracks and Malachi's own are extremely similar, to the point of sounding identical, Malachi's natural vibrato is shorter in duration, if you've ever listened to any of his songs. When compared to Michael's vibrato, Michael's seems "longer" because it's natural, and naturally fades away.These songs possess an almost rapid vibrato, which seems to have been altered to appear natural and more "Michael".


That's what it looks like to me anyway.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Hm interesting I guess I didn't notice the weird vibrato on the Hee-Hee-Hee!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Shame that all some could do is ask for their money back and that's it and that most likely won't even work! I didn't even buy the album and I never will. They ruined something that could have been amazing. MJ could have had a #1 album, if they never put those tracks in there. I pray they will not use any Cascio tracks in any future MJ releases, because with all that has happen and the way those 3 tracks sound how can we trust the others songs they bought from the Cascio's?!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Exactly what I said from day ONE! SONY and everyone got covered their asses in a way that no one can do anything!

Moreover, even if you claim your money back, what about the seven remaining songs by Michael? You wouldn't want them added to your collection?

@Ivy, your comparison excludes the voice timbre. The Cascio's voice timbre and Malachi's are identical.
If you exclude the voice timbre from the comparisons then you can say that anyone who has one-breath-long-lines-capacity singing is MJ?

Two options:

1) The voice timbre on the Cascio tra.cks sounds like Michael because the voice was processed (but why to the point to ressemble Malachi's voice?)

2) Malachi sang those songs.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

ginvid said:
She said it is not so easy to just go to court and sue someone. The first thing you have to do is prove damages. She said if this cannot be proved, the judge would throw it out before it even got to Sony. She recommends firstly writing a letter to Sony and asking for our money back and state the reason why. She said if they gave the money back, that's about as far as we could take it. She said if they did not give our money back, then we could go further. She said it would be hard to bring a fraud case against Sony because we would have to prove that they knew the songs were fake before hand (which would be difficult to do even if we could prove that the tracks were fake). I asked her about suing the Cascios, and she said that would be difficult because they did not have a responsibility towards us, they had a responsibility towards Sony. So we would have to get them on our sides since in that case they would be the victim. And they would have to admit the tracks were fake (which they would never do). She said we really have no damages except the cost of the CD if we bought them.

We could bring an injunction against Sony to get them to stop using the songs, if we could prove they are fake. But she said that was difficult to stem from an accusation of fraud since that would be what we would claim since most fraud cases are about damages. She said legally, there would be very little we could do. She said we could try to force them to show us the reports from their independent voal analysts, but they don't have a responsibility to do so, so we would probably never get that. I asked her about a class action lawsuit, but we are from so many different countries and laws governing things like this.

Anyway, she says a first step is to ask for our money back by letter. So I will try to draft a letter to Sony asking for my money back and see what response they give to that. That will determine what we could do next.

She said there are state agencies that fight on behalf of citizens of their state who have been defrauded ny an organization, such as in the foreclosure loans in the states. But, that was a case of people losing their homes, not because of a CD with fake songs.

She said she will confer with more people at her job after she hears the songs in the next day or two, so i will keep you updated. :(
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That sucks. :( I feel so helpless.
For suing them, we would for sure need people who were directly involved in the production of the album. Like Michael's nephews, Cory Rooney...
Otherwise the only thing we could do is make it public?
But asking your money back is a great statement. I didn't buy the album, so I can't do that. But you should definitely go for it.

Thank you, Ginvid!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

So let's just hypothetically say we would all donate money, a lot of money, and hire a lawyer, would it be useless?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I think we'd need the Jacksons to get involved here to actually get some noise about the situation. I think the Jacksons are really the only ones who can sue Sony for actual damage, I suppose. But then again The Estate's in control over MJ's material and Sony's in charge with the distribution of it and the promotion (or lack of it).
 
AndreyZidane™;3369823 said:
I think we'd need the Jacksons to get involved here to actually get some noise about the situation. I think the Jacksons are really the only ones who can sue Sony for actual damage, I suppose. But then again The Estate's in control over MJ's material and Sony's in charge with the distribution of it and the promotion (or lack of it).
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They seem to be ok with the situation. :(
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^Well, they don't have any control over what material they put out or how they distribute that material so, back to square one.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

But they are in a better position to do something against it than we are. They could achieve so much with our help. So why don't give it a try? I have the impression that the brothers don't give a fuck about the fake songs and how they harm Michael's legacy. They got endless tweets about this issue but all they are tweeting is "My song blabla...I will sing there blabla...My book blablabla...."
Since it was announced that they agreed to work with Sony, I've been like "Shit, what a bad decision". And look what happened.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^^Well, some of the Jacksons didn't really care about Michael while he was alive, so why would they do it now?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

True that. I just don't get how people can move on...

Imagine all fans who bought the album and are not content would send it back to Sony and demand their money back, and all of them on the SAME DAY! That would be something!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'm feeling hopeless here. If we could AT LEAST make sure they'll never release any Cascio track again that would still be something.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

The Jacksons know that legally they can do as much as we -- nothing. Sony covered their ass, I already said that long ago..
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
The Jacksons know that legally they can do as much as we -- nothing. Sony covered their ass, I already said that long ago..
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Ok, and what about public attention? They could attract public attention on this issue. Sony would not like that and they would have to react in some way. I wanna see their proof if there's any which I really doubt.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Justice_MJ said:
Ok, and what about public attention? They could attract public attention on this issue. Sony would not like that and they would have to react in some way. I wanna see their proof if there's any which I really doubt.
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You answered for yourself. Public attention + no tangible proof (except your ears) = WTF reaction from the public, just like 3T did on Twitter.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
You answered for yourself. Public attention + no tangible proof (except your ears) = WTF reaction from the public, just like 3T did on Twitter.
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Ah, I want proof from Sony. The ears of a great part of fans and family are proof enough to have a reason for doubting these tracks.
So the family could go public and say that the fans feel like it's not Michael singing on the Cascio tracks and that we are very upset over this and demand some kind of proof from Sony since they are saying they have proof. So normally it should be no problem for them to prove the authenticity. It's all about credibility, isn't it?

Anyway, not gonna happen...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Justice_MJ said:
So let's just hypothetically say we would all donate money, a lot of money, and hire a lawyer, would it be useless?
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I will get more clarification after she speaks to more people at work, but basically, yes, it is useless.

And, getting the Jacksons involved may not help either. They would have to show damages as well. Or they would have to get someone at Sony who was aware of the situation to turn against Sony. They are really in a similar situation we are in. They may have a better chance of speaking to people than we would; but, I really think our hands are tied. Plus the reputation of the family is so tattered that no one would believe them. They are so maligned that they really aren't a threat against a company like Sony.

The only way would be IF they did not give our money back, we could publicly sue and it would become a bigger thing. But it is not very likely. Sony is not stupid and has been in this business of CYA for decades. And, their lawyers would be quick to shut anything down.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Justice_MJ said:
Ah, I want proof from Sony. The ears of a great part of fans and family are proof enough to have a reason for doubting these tracks.
So the family could go public and say that the fans feel like it's not Michael singing on the Cascio tracks and that we are very upset over this and demand some kind of proof from Sony since they are saying they have proof. So normally it should be no problem for them to prove the authenticity. It's all about credibility, isn't it?

Anyway, not gonna happen...
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Exactly, some of the family did it publicly , but their credibility was immediately attacked as greedy and jaelous people.
So, unless they fdon't have some tangible proof, they can say whatever they want, it will be always Cascios say vs the Jacksons say, except thet SONY/Cascios covered their asses and don't need to show any proof.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I actually listened to Malachi songs from start to finish for the first time. I've been an advocate of the imposter theory from the first time I heard comparison audio matching the vibrato of the cacsio tracks with Malachi. I am now beginning to question this association. I am starting to notice subtle differences between Malachi's voice and delivery and the vocals on the cacsio tracks. Of course I'll have to wait and see what the other tracks sound like before I decide. In any event I think that it is possible these rough vocals are MJ. Rough vocals are often recorded on a skeletal track with the idea of recording final vocals once the instrumentals are built. You cannot sound but wooden when the track is only outlined with percussion. It is possible that MJ recorded these rough vocals with the intention of completing them once Cacsio or some other producer finished the instrumentals. In the rush to make these tracks releasable Teddy produced the track around the already tweeked or melodyned vocals resulting in the goatish vibrato and the overall quasi-emotionless delivery. This is my current working theory.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Seems fairly hopeless legally. The only thing as justice mj said woukd be to make a big enough fuss so that they would be compelled to react in some way. We'd have to have some pretty high profile people on board willing to speak out. I'd imagine 50 cent wouldn't be too pleased to be guesting on a fake track. He'd feel a right idiot but woukd he speak out? What label is he with though? Is he having to keep his trap shut for some reason? What a wuss if so!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yukon Jack said:
I actually listened to Malachi songs from start to finish for the first time. I've been an advocate of the imposter theory from the first time I heard comparison audio matching the vibrato of the cacsio tracks with Malachi. I am now beginning to question this association. I am starting to notice subtle differences between Malachi's voice and delivery and the vocals on the cacsio tracks. Of course I'll have to wait and see what the other tracks sound like before I decide. In any event I think that it is possible these rough vocals are MJ. Rough vocals are often recorded on a skeletal track with the idea of recording final vocals once the instrumentals are built. You cannot sound but wooden when the track is only outlined with percussion. It is possible that MJ recorded these rough vocals with the intention of completing them once Cacsio or some other producer finished the instrumentals. In the rush to make these tracks releasable Teddy produced the track around the already tweeked or melodyned vocals resulting in the goatish vibrato and the overall quasi-emotionless delivery. This is my current working theory.
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Very possible theory.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I agree. I've never thought that the songs were Malachi, and were at the very least Mecha Jackson or Michael Porte. Your theory - along with Ivy's about voice merging - holds up very well, Yukon Jack.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yukon Jack said:
I actually listened to Malachi songs from start to finish for the first time. I've been an advocate of the imposter theory from the first time I heard comparison audio matching the vibrato of the cacsio tracks with Malachi. I am now beginning to question this association. I am starting to notice subtle differences between Malachi's voice and delivery and the vocals on the cacsio tracks. Of course I'll have to wait and see what the other tracks sound like before I decide. In any event I think that it is possible these rough vocals are MJ. Rough vocals are often recorded on a skeletal track with the idea of recording final vocals once the instrumentals are built. You cannot sound but wooden when the track is only outlined with percussion. It is possible that MJ recorded these rough vocals with the intention of completing them once Cacsio or some other producer finished the instrumentals. In the rush to make these tracks releasable Teddy produced the track around the already tweeked or melodyned vocals resulting in the goatish vibrato and the overall quasi-emotionless delivery. This is my current working theory.
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Well how come he recorded so many vocals (rough or not)?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Thank you, ginvid and Bumper. It's so frustrating!
I still think we should try to go public. I mean it's obvious that they try to shut us up. Just look how fast they are to delete comparisons or demand users to be deleted who provide us with comparisons.
And the thing that baffles me the most is how fans who are against the albums are not allowed to speak their mind in most forums.
 
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