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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
You are completely missing my point. Hitting the notes is one thing, having your own voice timbre despite health problems is another. No matter what Whitney went through, her voice didn't sound someone else's.
About hitting the notes, when you sing live it happens that you don't hit the same notes as it is extremely noisy compared to the silence of a studio. Flash news for you, MJ when he was singing live sometimes wasn't always hitting the right notes either. Nonetheless his voice timbre remained his and never transformed into Malachi's.
Check for yourself BEN live (out of tone) 1:04, 2:12:
[youtube]ke6Pr28dZhQ[/youtube]
The whole Dirty Diana song (complete mess compared to the studio version --that's what's rock about--, but his magical voice makes it forget it, I love it!):
[youtube]DwBpB1Ok6JA[/youtube]
p.s. Even if Michael's voice sounds choked in Dirty Diana live, it doesn't take away a single particle in his timbre. Hedoesn't sound other than what his usual voice sounds.
You are completely missing my point. Hitting the notes is one thing, having your own voice timbre despite health problems is another. No matter what Whitney went through, her voice didn't sound someone else's.
About hitting the notes, when you sing live it happens that you don't hit the same notes as it is extremely noisy compared to the silence of a studio. Flash news for you, MJ when he was singing live sometimes wasn't always hitting the right notes either. Nonetheless his voice timbre remained his and never transformed into Malachi's.
Check for yourself BEN live (out of tone) 1:04, 2:12:
[youtube]ke6Pr28dZhQ[/youtube]
The whole Dirty Diana song (complete mess compared to the studio version --that's what's rock about--, but his magical voice makes it forget it, I love it!):
[youtube]DwBpB1Ok6JA[/youtube]
p.s. Even if Michael's voice sounds choked in Dirty Diana live, it doesn't take away a single particle in his timbre. Hedoesn't sound other than what his usual voice sounds.
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love is magical
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
Does it really make a big difference?
Michael proved to the whole world that he still had his voice and never lost any of his talents till his last minute in this world.
He had medical issues as early as during the mid-80's. Through all his problems, he was still a great vocalist.
Does it really make a big difference?
Michael proved to the whole world that he still had his voice and never lost any of his talents till his last minute in this world.
He had medical issues as early as during the mid-80's. Through all his problems, he was still a great vocalist.
Justice_MJ
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
You can recognize Michael's singing in EVERY song no matter how much they are processed. Exceptions are the Cascio songs. That's a fact. Michael Jackson has a unique way of singing. Listen to Hold my Hand. It's from 2007 and it's pure Michael. Then listen to the Cascio songs, so not michaelish.
Shame on the Cascios, Sony, and the estate!
The Dirty Diana video shows why Michael is the KING. Gosh, he's so into it. I love him mumbling the lyrics. Aow, Michael. :wub:
I completely agree.
You can recognize Michael's singing in EVERY song no matter how much they are processed. Exceptions are the Cascio songs. That's a fact. Michael Jackson has a unique way of singing. Listen to Hold my Hand. It's from 2007 and it's pure Michael. Then listen to the Cascio songs, so not michaelish.
Shame on the Cascios, Sony, and the estate!
The Dirty Diana video shows why Michael is the KING. Gosh, he's so into it. I love him mumbling the lyrics. Aow, Michael. :wub:
Aniram
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
love is magical, I'm not denying that he was a great vocalist almost all of the time. You're basically saying it was impossible for his vibrato to ever sound shaky and his voice to sound possibly flatter than usual. I say I think it could be a possibility. Fact is, we haven't heard Michael sing very much after Invincible era especially from 2005 on when he kind of went into hiding. You're showing me videos from twenty years or more prior and it says nothing to me about how his voice sounded after two grueling trials, lawsuits, countless surgeries, and over a decade at least of prescription drug use!(Plus suffering from laryngitis which I'm sure took a toll on his voice over the years, and lupus and other medical issues)
You realize how a video from before all of that does indeed make a difference. A video from when he's in his 20's compared to when he's in his late 40's.
Edit:
Let's also say hypothetically that Michael was sick when he stayed with the Cascio's. If he was going through any sort of detox or feeling ill at all, do you think that he'd just be lazy and lay around watching TV and snacking? Or do you think he'd be writing and recording ideas? Do you think he'd be disappointed that he felt the way he did, being the hard working type? He could relax but for months without writing anything? I think that would be kind of rare for Michael.
I'd think that he'd feel the urge to record and write no matter how ill he felt, and Michael was a very very strong person so I don't think he'd always let feeling sick get him down.
love is magical, I'm not denying that he was a great vocalist almost all of the time. You're basically saying it was impossible for his vibrato to ever sound shaky and his voice to sound possibly flatter than usual. I say I think it could be a possibility. Fact is, we haven't heard Michael sing very much after Invincible era especially from 2005 on when he kind of went into hiding. You're showing me videos from twenty years or more prior and it says nothing to me about how his voice sounded after two grueling trials, lawsuits, countless surgeries, and over a decade at least of prescription drug use!(Plus suffering from laryngitis which I'm sure took a toll on his voice over the years, and lupus and other medical issues)
You realize how a video from before all of that does indeed make a difference. A video from when he's in his 20's compared to when he's in his late 40's.
Edit:
Let's also say hypothetically that Michael was sick when he stayed with the Cascio's. If he was going through any sort of detox or feeling ill at all, do you think that he'd just be lazy and lay around watching TV and snacking? Or do you think he'd be writing and recording ideas? Do you think he'd be disappointed that he felt the way he did, being the hard working type? He could relax but for months without writing anything? I think that would be kind of rare for Michael.
I'd think that he'd feel the urge to record and write no matter how ill he felt, and Michael was a very very strong person so I don't think he'd always let feeling sick get him down.
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love is magical
Proud Member
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
When he's 50 years of age, he still sounded like the Michael Jackson we all know. Isn't This Is It a proof that his voice hasn't changed. Of course, his voice matures like your voice and my voice. But, I have to say he took good care of his voice throught all the issues he had to dealt with.
Have you read my post about the News York Times article? Paul Simon described what it's like to hear a great singer like Sinatra. Michael is as great as Sinatra. His way of singing is unique. That's why it feels so magical when listening to Michael Jackson. His voice is never flat and he never leaves his listeners cold. It's not the condition of his voice I'm talking about. It's his talents as a singer, his way to hold a note, his sense to beats and rhythm. These abilities cannot be destroyed by any health issues, drug issues or legal issues. He's borned with the natural instinct to convey emotions through his music.
Even if you like the Cascio songs, do you feel like something is missing? Isn't there is a sense of emptiness?
EDIT: Don't forget his children were also with him when he stayed in the Cascios. He could have spent time with his children if he was not well enough to be in a studio. His life was more than just music. It's not like if he's not in a studio, he'd be just watching TV and eating chips.
When he's 50 years of age, he still sounded like the Michael Jackson we all know. Isn't This Is It a proof that his voice hasn't changed. Of course, his voice matures like your voice and my voice. But, I have to say he took good care of his voice throught all the issues he had to dealt with.
Have you read my post about the News York Times article? Paul Simon described what it's like to hear a great singer like Sinatra. Michael is as great as Sinatra. His way of singing is unique. That's why it feels so magical when listening to Michael Jackson. His voice is never flat and he never leaves his listeners cold. It's not the condition of his voice I'm talking about. It's his talents as a singer, his way to hold a note, his sense to beats and rhythm. These abilities cannot be destroyed by any health issues, drug issues or legal issues. He's borned with the natural instinct to convey emotions through his music.
Even if you like the Cascio songs, do you feel like something is missing? Isn't there is a sense of emptiness?
EDIT: Don't forget his children were also with him when he stayed in the Cascios. He could have spent time with his children if he was not well enough to be in a studio. His life was more than just music. It's not like if he's not in a studio, he'd be just watching TV and eating chips.
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
If you search his real name through people finder websites it only shows Maryland address so yeah he's from Maryland and doesn't seem to lived anywhere else at all.
Cascio's are from NJ and Porte is Liberian born, Liberia & Tennessee raised and lives in New York.
If you search his real name through people finder websites it only shows Maryland address so yeah he's from Maryland and doesn't seem to lived anywhere else at all.
Cascio's are from NJ and Porte is Liberian born, Liberia & Tennessee raised and lives in New York.
love is magical
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Aniram
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
Didn't someone say that Malachi mentioned working with Michael? And everyone said he was just lying because of that ego of his.
love, it's not cyber stalking. I did the same thing just to see where he was from. Hope you were kidding.
Well, all I needed to do was search "Jason Cupeta from" on Google.
Didn't someone say that Malachi mentioned working with Michael? And everyone said he was just lying because of that ego of his.
love, it's not cyber stalking. I did the same thing just to see where he was from. Hope you were kidding.
Well, all I needed to do was search "Jason Cupeta from" on Google.
MJearthsong
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
Recorded from outside TII, on a phone, unedited.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwvOyivDHuk
Also, BOJ was recorded end of 2008, at the hotel. Fans heard it from outside.
Recorded from outside TII, on a phone, unedited.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwvOyivDHuk
Also, BOJ was recorded end of 2008, at the hotel. Fans heard it from outside.
Aniram
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
How do you know about Best Of Joy? It's also speculated that Michael wasn't even there at that rehearsal and they were just using playback for the dancers.
How do you know about Best Of Joy? It's also speculated that Michael wasn't even there at that rehearsal and they were just using playback for the dancers.
MJearthsong
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
Michael WAS at the rehearsals, because fans were there all the time. They recorded this outside the Forum walls, after they saw Michael going in. Does this link sound like a playback??
The same fans were at the Bel Air hotel late 2008 and heard Michael record BOJ. They even asked him about it. Remember the note/letter circulating on the net, with Michael saying "I'm recording tonight, just for you..."?? That was BOJ and I hear a couple other songs.
I'm just saying that even on a phone outside the walls, he does sound like Michael.
Michael WAS at the rehearsals, because fans were there all the time. They recorded this outside the Forum walls, after they saw Michael going in. Does this link sound like a playback??
The same fans were at the Bel Air hotel late 2008 and heard Michael record BOJ. They even asked him about it. Remember the note/letter circulating on the net, with Michael saying "I'm recording tonight, just for you..."?? That was BOJ and I hear a couple other songs.
I'm just saying that even on a phone outside the walls, he does sound like Michael.
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
That's always the point...No matter the shitty conditions, he's always sounded like Michael Jackson, like he's ALWAYS sounded...even if you can barely hear him, there's no mistaking that voice...
That's always the point...No matter the shitty conditions, he's always sounded like Michael Jackson, like he's ALWAYS sounded...even if you can barely hear him, there's no mistaking that voice...
love is magical
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
Do you think he sounded beautiful in HMH?
Do you think he sounded beautiful in HMH?
Aniram
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
Yes, but was Hold My Hand recorded early or late 2007? The Cascio tracks were reportedly recorded in early 2007 and I thought Hold My Hand was recorded late 2007.
EDIT:
Actually just researched it myself and it looks like HMH was recorded in 2008. :/
Yes, but was Hold My Hand recorded early or late 2007? The Cascio tracks were reportedly recorded in early 2007 and I thought Hold My Hand was recorded late 2007.
EDIT:
Actually just researched it myself and it looks like HMH was recorded in 2008. :/
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
Cascio Songs, August 2007. - Eddie says in the 'Story of Michael'
Hold My Hand, was recorded roughly the same time as Wanna Be Startin Something in 2007
Cascio Songs, August 2007. - Eddie says in the 'Story of Michael'
Hold My Hand, was recorded roughly the same time as Wanna Be Startin Something in 2007
AnnieRUOkay89
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
What does those videos have to do with Whitney Houston in 2010? You're completely dis acknowledging the fact that her performance issues were due to her "detoxing" and past drug abuse. You're completely ignoring the fact that she didn't sound like herself at all during that performance, from the testimony of the fans who attended the concerts. In fact on more than one occasion the news of people requesting refunds was popping up all over the internet, her not sounding like herself had nothing to do with the fact that she was performing live. It was more so that after all the years of abuse to her lungs and other organs, she just couldn't do it, not only could she not hit notes, when it came to certain songs she sounded terrible compared to the original recordings.
Singing live had nothing to do with her issue, especially considering she isn't a pop act and doesn't have to dance at the same time.
What does those videos have to do with Whitney Houston in 2010? You're completely dis acknowledging the fact that her performance issues were due to her "detoxing" and past drug abuse. You're completely ignoring the fact that she didn't sound like herself at all during that performance, from the testimony of the fans who attended the concerts. In fact on more than one occasion the news of people requesting refunds was popping up all over the internet, her not sounding like herself had nothing to do with the fact that she was performing live. It was more so that after all the years of abuse to her lungs and other organs, she just couldn't do it, not only could she not hit notes, when it came to certain songs she sounded terrible compared to the original recordings.
Singing live had nothing to do with her issue, especially considering she isn't a pop act and doesn't have to dance at the same time.
love is magical
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
Anyway, HMH and WBSS 2008 were recorded around 2007/2008. He sounded great. He sang well. The skills he'd had ever since he's a child were not lost.
Again, when you listened to the Cascio tracks, do you feel your something is missing? Something very difficult to explain, something only a Michael Jackson song can provide?
Anyway, HMH and WBSS 2008 were recorded around 2007/2008. He sounded great. He sang well. The skills he'd had ever since he's a child were not lost.
Again, when you listened to the Cascio tracks, do you feel your something is missing? Something very difficult to explain, something only a Michael Jackson song can provide?
Aniram
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
No, I feel it's there, that's why I've always said it's not Jason because I don't feel that spark with Jason's music and his voice. I know Jason's sound and this is different. This is all my opinion, though.
No, I feel it's there, that's why I've always said it's not Jason because I don't feel that spark with Jason's music and his voice. I know Jason's sound and this is different. This is all my opinion, though.
love is magical
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
When I listen to Whiteny's new album, she still sounds Whitney to me. Yes, her once crystal clear voice was gone. But, the timbre and the tone of her voice remain.
Unlike Whitney, the condition of Michael's voice remained excellent as heard in the TII rehearsals. He took care his voice better than most people give him credit to. Why would he lost his instantly recognizable voice only in that few months in 2007?
When I listen to Whiteny's new album, she still sounds Whitney to me. Yes, her once crystal clear voice was gone. But, the timbre and the tone of her voice remain.
Unlike Whitney, the condition of Michael's voice remained excellent as heard in the TII rehearsals. He took care his voice better than most people give him credit to. Why would he lost his instantly recognizable voice only in that few months in 2007?
love is magical
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
The songs just leave me cold. There are moments I scratch my head and ask would Michael sing in this way? Like the way "obituary" is phrased, the way "mama say mama gonna get you in a zigzag" is sung, the way "soldier" is pronunced... I feel Michael could do a better job. I feel the vocalist struggled with the beats and rhythm of the song.
The songs just leave me cold. There are moments I scratch my head and ask would Michael sing in this way? Like the way "obituary" is phrased, the way "mama say mama gonna get you in a zigzag" is sung, the way "soldier" is pronunced... I feel Michael could do a better job. I feel the vocalist struggled with the beats and rhythm of the song.
Worldwide
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
But they worked with what they had and got the job done!
But they worked with what they had and got the job done!
AnnieRUOkay89
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
Hence why I said "I don't recall Michael having a drug problem like that", which means the "he was detoxing" thing doesn't hold too well with me, but that's just me.
Point was, if you're going to use Whitney Houston as an example, at least be recent and factual with your findings....Look at this...
('94)
('99)
('10)
Now can anyone honestly tell me that voice is identical if you hadn't looked at the video? Or would you suggest it was someone doing a bad cover? And this consistently happened to her throughout her Australian tour last year when it came this song and a few others. It's quite sad, but her issues isn't due simply to her performing live.
Now if this were Michael, "he was detoxing" would yet again be another logical explanation, but not one iota in my body believes that Michael had this serious issue with drugs throughout the final years of his life.
Hence why I said "I don't recall Michael having a drug problem like that", which means the "he was detoxing" thing doesn't hold too well with me, but that's just me.
Point was, if you're going to use Whitney Houston as an example, at least be recent and factual with your findings....Look at this...
('94)
('99)
('10)
Now can anyone honestly tell me that voice is identical if you hadn't looked at the video? Or would you suggest it was someone doing a bad cover? And this consistently happened to her throughout her Australian tour last year when it came this song and a few others. It's quite sad, but her issues isn't due simply to her performing live.
Now if this were Michael, "he was detoxing" would yet again be another logical explanation, but not one iota in my body believes that Michael had this serious issue with drugs throughout the final years of his life.
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love is magical
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
You still haven't explained why the way "obituary" is phrased so awkwardly, the way "mama say mama get you in a zigzag" sounds off beat and the way "soldier" is pronunced is so not the way Michael pronounced it.
What happen to the graceful phraser with effortless style and natural instinct of how the beats should flow?
To me, all songs except for the Cascio tracks fit into the category you just described. The songs were not complete. The producers worked with what they had and came up with very decent results. I'm not a big fan of Hollywood Tonight or Another Day. However, I feel the sparks and the magic is there. My heartstring is pulled the moment the vocals started.
You still haven't explained why the way "obituary" is phrased so awkwardly, the way "mama say mama get you in a zigzag" sounds off beat and the way "soldier" is pronunced is so not the way Michael pronounced it.
What happen to the graceful phraser with effortless style and natural instinct of how the beats should flow?
To me, all songs except for the Cascio tracks fit into the category you just described. The songs were not complete. The producers worked with what they had and came up with very decent results. I'm not a big fan of Hollywood Tonight or Another Day. However, I feel the sparks and the magic is there. My heartstring is pulled the moment the vocals started.
Justice_MJ
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
This video says it all. It ain't MJ singing on the Cascio songs.
http://youtu.be/rXCwTmAzZ-w
This video says it all. It ain't MJ singing on the Cascio songs.
http://youtu.be/rXCwTmAzZ-w
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
Nice find...it is literally impossible for me to listen to that and then listen to the Cascio tracks and conclude that it's the same person....Michael's voice has skill, passion, versatility etc, etc, etc...none of that is showcased on the Cascio tracks at all...
Nice find...it is literally impossible for me to listen to that and then listen to the Cascio tracks and conclude that it's the same person....Michael's voice has skill, passion, versatility etc, etc, etc...none of that is showcased on the Cascio tracks at all...
Justice_MJ
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
To say that Michael is singing the lead on the Cascio songs is insulting him as an artist.
To say that Michael is singing the lead on the Cascio songs is insulting him as an artist.