Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

and i've said it before, i'll say it again: the lyrics to "keep your head up" are about as good as the lyrics to "friday" by rebecca black. Which seat will i take?

and what makes you think that they couldn't be work in progress , filler lyrics? How about Billie Jean Home Demo that a2z recently posted?



ps : I'm posting this version of the video to show how people make fun of the not finished / filler lyrics. (he's not saying bear and he's not saying "I sit in a cup in a ride" he's saying "Thats it gotta go get a ride") Hear the nose sound around 1:33.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'm just kidding, of course, but you see my point that Michael Jackson didn't always write the most profound music ever heard, at least some would agree with me. Some of his songs like this could easily be picked apart by a critic who isn't a Michael Jackson fan.

I don't think people are making so much fuss about the lyrics.It's the voice that makes most of them doubt.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

and what makes you think that they couldn't be work in progress , filler lyrics? How about Billie Jean Home Demo that a2z recently posted?



ps : I'm posting this version of the video to show how people make fun of the not finished / filler lyrics. (he's not saying bear and he's not saying "I sit in a cup in a ride" he's saying "Thats it gotta go get a ride") Hear the nose sound around 1:33.
I NEVER come in this thread Ivy...but glad I did..I love this video...I know you posted it to prove a point...but thank you....:love:....love this.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

and what makes you think that they couldn't be work in progress , filler lyrics? How about Billie Jean Home Demo that a2z recently posted?



ps : I'm posting this version of the video to show how people make fun of the not finished / filler lyrics. (he's not saying bear and he's not saying "I sit in a cup in a ride" he's saying "Thats it gotta go get a ride") Hear the nose sound around 1:33.

Lol... I have this exact demo in my iPod. The demo is released in the Thriller 2001 Remaster Edition.

I agree the lyrics are totally work-in-progress. I never find the lyrics funny until I saw the video.

I understand your point. The lyrics of KYHU better be work-in-progress or filler lyrics. One thing I don't get is that Michael didn't sing all filler lyrics out, as we can hear from this particular memo. He "dun dun der der" through part of the song. However, he sang all filler lyrics all out in KYHU... :scratch:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Lol... I have this exact demo in my iPod. The demo is released in the Thriller 2001 Remaster Edition.

I agree the lyrics are totally work-in-progress. I never find the lyrics funny until I saw the video.

I understand your point. The lyrics of KYHU better be work-in-progress or filler lyrics. One thing I don't get is that Michael didn't sing all filler lyrics out, as we can hear from this particular memo. He "dun dun der der" through part of the song. However, he sang all filler lyrics all out in KYHU... :scratch:

The thing with this demo is that it sounds like he's not actually singing anything....He's known for singing gibberish when he's doing a demo..Same with the WBSS demo on the TII soundtrack...It's obvious that that is how he works - just singing out nothing to get a feel for things...That's how I see it...No offence, Ivy, but I just don't get your point here...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

The thing with this demo is that it sounds like he's not actually singing anything....He's known for singing gibberish when he's doing a demo..Same with the WBSS demo on the TII soundtrack...It's obvious that that is how he works - just singing out nothing to get a feel for things...That's how I see it...No offence, Ivy, but I just don't get your point here...

actually you make my point.

people on this thread criticized the lyrics, said they are weak, said they are meaningless, said that there are 2 or more unrelated concepts in the songs.

you say he's known to sing gibberish or he makes lyrics (lines, sentences) as the above Billie Jean Demo video shows.

Cascio songs are demos so why do you expect him to sing perfectly profound stuff? Especially when we have demos showing him singing not necessarily meaningful random stuff.


One thing I don't get is that Michael didn't sing all filler lyrics out, as we can hear from this particular memo. He "dun dun der der" through part of the song. However, he sang all filler lyrics all out in KYHU... :scratch:

I'm not saying all filler lyrics. I'm saying that Cascio songs were demos. Perhaps the lyrics wasn't all finalized "perfect" lyrics and he could have sang some old lines to get a feel.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

And also why would they leave dur dur dur on an album release? If he did any mumbles, wouldn't they edit those out in favor for full lines?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

actually you make my point.

people on this thread criticized the lyrics, said they are weak, said they are meaningless, said that there are 2 or more unrelated concepts in the songs.

you say he's known to sing gibberish or he makes lyrics (lines, sentences) as the above Billie Jean Demo video shows.

Cascio songs are demos so why do you expect him to sing perfectly profound stuff? Especially when we have demos showing him singing not necessarily meaningful random stuff.




I'm not saying all filler lyrics. I'm saying that Cascio songs were demos. Perhaps the lyrics wasn't all finalized "perfect" lyrics and he could have sang some old lines to get a feel.

Ok, I understand what you're saying...But what I'm saying is he's known to sing gibberish in demos...singing NOTHING....I never said he had to sing perfectly profound stuff...These Cascio 'demos' are full sentences sung...there's no sign of any gibberish or mumbling in them...(you can hear mumbling and complete gibberish in BTM and MTS, for example)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

And also why would they leave dur dur dur on an album release? If he did any mumbles, wouldn't they edit those out in favor for full lines?

They did leave the dun dun dur dur in BTM.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

"BUTTERCUP AND DAY HEY HEYY!" :hysterical:


I immediately burst into laughter after I heard that. :lol:


BTW, that Mayonnaise and Cheese bit isn't in Stay. Nice try though.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

But what I'm saying is he's known to sing gibberish in demos...singing NOTHING...

I know what you said but doesn't WBSS demo also have a line about a two-faced girl? In the Billie Jean demo he has gibberish but he also has some perfectly okay but unrelated lines and some not really having any meaning lines.So it looks like he makes lines as well as sings gibberish.
 
PART I


AnnieRUOkay89;3315873 said:
There aren't any "Chaah's" in Invincible, none that I heard anyway. Most of this is being based off of songs from the mid-late 80's.

Michael created a unique way of singing faster songs. It gives impression that it was almost innate and natural, but it isn't. He created his own brand, his own school. An innovative and almost inimitable way of singing, set aside the voice beatbox. I've always preferred Michael's fast songs, that's why my ear is more trained with faster songs than with slower songs. That's also why I am debating "Monster" and "Breaking News" vs all other MJ's songs. "KYHU" should be in another debate section as it is a slower song and needs to be compared to other MJ's slower songs.

So, indeed I showed the "chaaahs" from the 80s, but Michael has never ever gotten rid of it.He kept it in one form or another. Instead of "chaaah" it could be "daaah" or "taaah", but it's still there, even on INVINCIBLE. Listen:

UNBREAKABLE:

EEEeea, yeeah, daah, huh,
Now I'm just wondering daah why you think da
that you can get to me da with anything da
seems like you'd know by now
When and how I get down dah
And with all that I've been through, dah
I'm still around ...

and it continues on and on

[youtube]c1byYt8KrFk[/youtube]

HEARTBREAKER

MmmMm, ah, ha, up, uhh, up, ha...
Deceitful eyes, she's got those come get me thighs
(background: ah, ha, up, uhh, up, ha....)
she only knows how low that she can go
(background: ah, ha, up, uhh, up, ha....)
She speaks the lines that can control my mind
(background: ah, ha, up, uhh, up, ha....)
Wherever she goes I know my eyes follow
(background: ah, ha, up, uhh, up, ha....)
She blew a kiss, I swear that it was meant
(background: ah, ha, up, uhh, up, ha....)
only for me, then spoke with her body
(background: ah, ha, up, uhh, up, ha....)
her only goal is just to take control
(background: ah, ha, up, uhh, up, ha....)
And I can't believe that I can´t tell her no
(background: ah, ha, up, uhh, up, ha....)

etc.

[youtube]Qw3p6u-5Zug[/youtube]

INVINCIBLE

Well, well, uhh! dah! Well, well. Dah! Ung!
If I could tear down these walls that keep you and I apart
I know I could claim your heart and our perfect love will start
But girl you just won’t approve of the things that I do
When all I do is for you but still you say it ain’t cool dah

If there’s somebo(dah!)dy else, he can’t love you like me
And he says he’ll treat(dah!) you well, he can’t treat you like me
And he’s buying diamonds and(dah!) pearls, he can’t do it like me
And he’s taking you all across the(dah!) world, he can’t(da!) trick you like me(ho!)

etc, etc.

[youtube]acE59dXj1to[/youtube]

AnnieRUOkay89;3315873 said:
There's no "chaah's" on HT, other than when he's beatboxing. But what these tracks do have in common are "ah's", "d'ap", and other breath-like noises.

Listen once more to HT more closely and you'll hear the "DAHs!" and hiccups. I am not going to post all here otherwise my post will be too long. Also, the beatbox on HT was used in the background similarly to "dahs" and "hahs" in the song "HEARTBREAKER".
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I wrote this before. I'll believe Jacksons when they take an action.

Joe claimed Michael's will to be fake - yet he didn't make the claim in court when he objected to the executors.
Joe claimed TII had body doubles - we all know how that turned out.
Taj went to court to object TII and memorabilia tour - yet he didn't go to court about the album.
Katherine claims she's not getting enough money- yet she doesn't go the court to make any requests.
Many Jackson's cry murder, conspiracy - yet they don't go to authorities and say that you can read "the truth" in their books.
3T sent 10 or so tweets for a few days about the album , promising to protect their uncle's legacy but then it was over. They moved on.


so no, It's hard to take it seriously. The day they take action and put their money where their mouth is I will say "they might have a legit claim here".

ps: there's no rule that says I have to blindly accept what they say because their surname happens to be Jackson.

and I don't "prefer" to believe in anyone. I hear Michael with supporting vocals of James Porte.



sums it all up! :clapping:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I follow this thread for a while now even though I didn't post much.

I must say something and I don't want to offend no one.
Those who are fans for a long time and are still pretending they hear Michael's voice on Cascio's songs, I think they have missed something all the way.
The essence of a Michael's song is his voice and his extrordinary rendition.You must listen with all your being...not only with your ears.
 
Part II

AnnieRUOkay89;3315873 said:
Those breath-like noises are pretty much nonexistent on Monster, which reinforces the statements that it may have initially been a slower song,

Might be slower, but not a ballad. The song INVINCIBLE isn't that fast, yet it has "dahs" all over it.


AnnieRUOkay89;3315873 said:
these breath-like noises are heard all throughout Breaking News, whether they're copy and pasted, or did by someone else, you can't deny they aren't there.

I am not denying them on Breaking News. Here is what is bugging me actually. When I first heard it, I was ready to believe it was MJ, but the voice timbre wasn't convincing at all. I had never doubted any other MJ's song in the past, and here for the first time I wasn't comfortable. Why?

-the "dahs" were timidly there in the background (possibly copy-pasted from other songs) rather than after some lines that the trained ear expected.

-the usual husk was absent

-the voice timbre was lower than usual and not as powerful as usual

-the way some sentences are pronounced/sung sounded awfully not Michael (for example: They could put around the world today
He wanna' write my obituary). I have impression that the singer had so much pain in trying to sing that line, almost as if the singer wasn't an English speaker... or that he was not used to sing that fast! (Which is completely contradicting with songs such as "SHOUT" in which Michael had no difficulties in almost rapping the whole song).

All in all I stayed perplexed and thought, this is probably due to many different reasons such as "demo", "butchering the original", etc, etc.
But then again, I just couldn't believe that I couldn't recognize Michael even though I instantly recognize his voice in any, absolutely any environment in all previous songs that he has sung. So, I decided to wait and to listen to the eagerly awaited "Monster" track.

Again, on that track, the same voice timbre, no power, no husk, no "dahs"! No spark! (only few timid copy-pasted probably).

When I was listening to it I had impression that I was drinking sparkling water without bubbles. Something that never happened in any MJ's song or demo or even few notes in his garden, on the phone or on the street.


AnnieRUOkay89;3315873 said:
So, I'm not sure what relevance the absence of "chaah's" hold here.

The relevance is that MJ's print, his own way of singing, his own school is completely absent on those Cascio tracks. Set aside his voice timbre, husk, power, difficulties to sing fast, lyrics, etc, etc. the "dahs" or "chahs" were as deafly absent as bubbles from sparkling water!

Here are some lines of the song "MONSTER":

Ahhhh! Ha! Aouw! (so far so expected)
You can look at them coming out the walls
You can look at them climbing out the bushes
You can find them when the letter’s bout to fall
He be waiting with his camera on focus

Everywhere you seem to turn
there’s a monster
When you look up in the air there’s a monster
Paparazzi got you scared like a monster, monster,
monster
(Too bad)

Oh oh Hollywood it’s got you jumping like you should
(Too bad)
It’s got you bouncing off the wall
It’s got you drunk enough to fall
(Too bad)
Oh oh Hollywood just look in the mirror
And tell me you like
Don’t you, don’t you like it

Aouw! (copy-pasted)

In the first three verses there is no not single "DAH!". Compared to the first three songs in INVINCIBLE, I do not recognize our MJ in this song, sorry.


Now, observe this. Singers who are not imitating Michael, but who are influenced by Michael are not focusing on sounding like Michael, but on adopting MJ's style in the songs. They have learned from MJ's school how to use MJ's brand. For example, Ne-Yo understood this well, listen:

ONE IN A MILLION

Jet setter hhhh
Go getter hhh
Nothing better unhh
Call me Mr. been there done that
Top model chick to your every day hood rat
Less than all but more than a few
But I've never met one like you

Dah! Been all over the world Dah!
Done a little bit of everything
Little bit of everywhere
With a little bit of everyone uhha!
All the girls I've been with
Things I've seen it takes much to impress
But sure enough you go it makes your soul stand up from all the rest

I can be in love ah!
But I just don't know ah! chah!
Baby one thing is for certain ah!
Whatever you do it's working
All the girls don't matter
In your presence can't do what you do dah!
There's a million girls around but I don't see no one but you ah!

[youtube]6tpl9LtkRRw[/youtube]


This is amazing. Why do I recognize MJ (not his voice, but his style) in a Ne-Yo song sung by Ne-Yo, and not an MJ style in supposedly MJ's own song?

I believe that the imposter focused so much in trying to sound like Michael that he just forgot the little "dahs" or "chahs" or that he wasn't able to do two things in the same time: voice timbre and detailed singing style. Obviously they called producers to make it more Michaelish by copy-pasting the aoows and huhs and dahs here and there or in the backgroud.

Those "dahs" represent bubbles in sparkling water. So far, since Michael's posthumous album was released I've been "drinking" flat water and SONY wants to make me believe that I am drinking sparkling water only because of the label on the bottle.

That was my point of those "dahs" being relevant. The trained ear hoplessly expects to hear them as usual after at least some lines. In "Monster" in three entire verses, there is not a single "dah"! It's flat.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I don't think people are making so much fuss about the lyrics.It's the voice that makes most of them doubt.

Great post. :agree:

The voice (younger and like Malachi) and the tone (like Malachi), and the snorts (like Malachi), is the problem.
 
claudiadoina;3319565 said:
I follow this thread for a while now even though I didn't post much.

I must say something and I don't want to offend no one.
Those who are fans for a long time and are still pretending they hear Michael's voice on Cascio's songs, I think they have missed something all the way.
The essence of a Michael's song is his voice and his extrordinary rendition.You must listen with all your being...not only with your ears.

Yeah, it´s very sad that many fans still believe it´s Michael voice when the comparison and our ears tell us it´s Malachi. And when there are not proofs to believe it´s Michael. Not handwritten notes, no demos, nothing.

And when their family (Jackie, Jermaine, Randy, Katherine, 3t), 28 Mj fan clubs, Rodney Jerkins, Batten, Karen Faye, the doubts from Quincy, Ne-yo and Will i am, told us it´s not MJ.

I think that right now it´s a problem for them (the people who still believe and fight saying it´s MJ) to say the truth because they don´t want to say that they made a mistake.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

****ing epic posts by Bumper! Brilliant!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Bumper, I have a question....



If this vocal impersonation is as easy to detect as not noticing the 'dah's' in songs, don't you think this is NOT an impersonator?

You claim that even Ne-Yo does the sounds but this guy impersonating these songs can't do it?!

You would think that if these were fakes there'd be 'dahs' and 'chas' ALL over the frickin' place, because the person is impersonating MJ? Right? Why would they be totally absent if it's a faker? Seems a little too obvious...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Ermm... trying to think of any songs without any DAH in them.. by Michael.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

The essence of a Michael's song is his voice and his extrordinary rendition.You must listen with all your being...not only with your ears.

Exactly. Couldn't agree with you more. :)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

The one thing which makes me question the vocals is the lack of power in the actual voice. It sounds like in places he is straining to sing and pushing.

No MJ song sounded like this before, even in demos.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I listen with my entire being and I don't feel Jason Malachi over Michael Jackson on these songs.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/107665112

NB: the myspace page appears to be fake. Either that or he is taking credit for his material being included on the illegally produced 7even album which was released for the Asian bootleg market.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I listen with my entire being and I don't feel Jason Malachi over Michael Jackson on these songs.

How about if you shift your focus? I mean let's not try to feel Jason. The focus is always on Michael.

I wonder if we know nothing about Stay and one day we hear the song from the radio, could we tell who the vocalist is?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

... They've broken me... I can't take it anymore.

In Citizenship today, my teacher had a slideshow about Elizabeth Taylor and had a section dedicated to her friendship with MJ... Except he hardly covered anything. Nothing about how she was there for him, how they loved each other greatly, nothing about "Elizabeth, I Love You", and said that she was the reason that he "changed his face". Of course, everyone started mocking MJ, calling him a fake!

That's the only MJ-related problem I've had this week. Aside from that, there's been a couple of comments by people I don't know calling me a freak, etc. and I'm forced to still go there!!!!

Oh right, this is a vocal debate...! Um... I've always heard that "age" on the Cascio tracks.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

... They've broken me... I can't take it anymore.

In Citizenship today, my teacher had a slideshow about Elizabeth Taylor and had a section dedicated to her friendship with MJ... Except he hardly covered anything. Nothing about how she was there for him, how they loved each other greatly, nothing about "Elizabeth, I Love You", and said that she was the reason that he "changed his face". Of course, everyone started mocking MJ, calling him a fake!

That's the only MJ-related problem I've had this week. Aside from that, there's been a couple of comments by people I don't know calling me a freak, etc. and I'm forced to still go there!!!!

Oh right, this is a vocal debate...! Um... I've always heard that "age" on the Cascio tracks.

Your teacher said Elizabeth Taylor was the reason Michael changed his face? :doh:

I feel sorry for you. Gosh... this is so wrong.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yeah, like she was the inspiration. It's similar to those rumours that he wanted to look like Diana Ross! Of course everyone believed him, despite hardly listening to him at any other point in the year! That's what he had written about it! Plus he had written something about the way the media reported her influenced him, I can't really remember. Either way, that was a giant misstep and I wish he asked me about their friendship to give a better definition of it, he knows I'm an MJ fan as I've done many projects revolving around him.

There's so much misinformation about him that people take as fact, it's sickening.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yeah, like she was the inspiration. It's similar to those rumours that he wanted to look like Diana Ross! Of course everyone believed him, despite hardly listening to him at any other point in the year! That's what he had written about it! Plus he had written something about the way the media reported her influenced him, I can't really remember. Either way, that was a giant misstep and I wish he asked me about their friendship to give a better definition of it, he knows I'm an MJ fan as I've done many projects revolving around him.

There's so much misinformation about him that people take as fact, it's sickening.
I know this is OT..and you never see me in this part of the forum..but all I can say to your teacher..is VERY misinformed....what a failure...I had to snicker at that teacher. ..and people have the nerve to make fun of you....stupid misinformed people. They dont ask a person such as yourself a person who REALLY knows the truth about Michael because THEY are to ignorant and want people to believe it the way they see it. Sorry you had to go through that. :better:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yeah, like she was the inspiration. It's similar to those rumours that he wanted to look like Diana Ross! Of course everyone believed him, despite hardly listening to him at any other point in the year! That's what he had written about it! Plus he had written something about the way the media reported her influenced him, I can't really remember. Either way, that was a giant misstep and I wish he asked me about their friendship to give a better definition of it, he knows I'm an MJ fan as I've done many projects revolving around him.

There's so much misinformation about him that people take as fact, it's sickening.

The sad truth is that there is nothing much you can do on ignorant people. Accurate information on Michael is out there. Some people choose to rely on tabloids than be fairly informed and enlightened. In your teacher's case, he knew he had to present a topic about Michael Jackson. Instead of spending time to find out the truth, he chose to rely on the regrugitated garbage from tabloids. Even if a research is done and is presented to your teacher, your teacher probably won't take a look.

Just remember this. It's their loss. Their prejudice and ignorance prevent them to be touched by genius. They miss out the joy and wonderment that we share everyday.
 
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