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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
I am just quoting you. :tease:
I am just quoting you. :tease:
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
:yes: :yes:
:yes: :yes:
Aniram
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
The people on the escalator in the background seem to be thinking, 'Who the eff is that terrible white Michael Jackson impersonator?'
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
It has got nothing to do with the hate )or being called anything) and got everything to do with the hack. His manager told me that Jason was extensively hacked and therefore they requested every provider to disable / take down his accounts.
In short they either couldn't or didn't try to recover his accounts from hack, they simply choose to close them down.
Generally speaking we all shouldn't make these kinds of definitive statements as music and people's liking towards is highly subjective. In other words what you classify as "absolutely wonderful" could be "absolutely disastrous" for someone else or vice versa. (again talking in general terms and not making any claims about Michael's songs).
so what samhabib is saying (and what you are saying) his (your) personal opinion and his (your) personal taste in music, there's no requirement that says the same should apply to all other people.
for example think about this question "what is the best song ever that Michael did?" - we would get different answers to this from different people and never got a 100% agreement (an indisputable fact) about his best song ever. Similarly what's best - worst would differ among people vastly hence difference of opinion.
Brilliant
It has got nothing to do with the hate )or being called anything) and got everything to do with the hack. His manager told me that Jason was extensively hacked and therefore they requested every provider to disable / take down his accounts.
In short they either couldn't or didn't try to recover his accounts from hack, they simply choose to close them down.
Generally speaking we all shouldn't make these kinds of definitive statements as music and people's liking towards is highly subjective. In other words what you classify as "absolutely wonderful" could be "absolutely disastrous" for someone else or vice versa. (again talking in general terms and not making any claims about Michael's songs).
so what samhabib is saying (and what you are saying) his (your) personal opinion and his (your) personal taste in music, there's no requirement that says the same should apply to all other people.
for example think about this question "what is the best song ever that Michael did?" - we would get different answers to this from different people and never got a 100% agreement (an indisputable fact) about his best song ever. Similarly what's best - worst would differ among people vastly hence difference of opinion.
mjjesamor
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
So why hasn't malachi created new accounts? Are we to believe so that malachi has completely given up all promotion of himself and his new album just because he was hacked? Just like that he packed it all in? Just because he was hacked? How convenient! No way. Not buying it.
So why hasn't malachi created new accounts? Are we to believe so that malachi has completely given up all promotion of himself and his new album just because he was hacked? Just like that he packed it all in? Just because he was hacked? How convenient! No way. Not buying it.
Aniram
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
Lots of people think Best Of Joy is a bad song. I think it's amazing.
And like someone said earlier, This Is It is 'boring' and I disagreed. Just because you think something is terrible or boring doesn't mean others think the same.
Oh well... I really don't let it bother me anymore. Maybe I would have when I was younger but I hear people talk trash on music I love all the time. I'm so used to it already. But I have no problem pointing out when I think somethings a little rude. It's okay though! Samhabib's predictable smartass comments are entertainment a lot of the time.
And yes, I missed samhabib a bit. Sam, I have no doubt, is a very good person, however comes across very rudely and insulting sometimes when it comes to this issue. Saying I'm a cheerleader when how many people are his cheerleaders?
He's just silly sometimes! But I love you all, you are all great people! Like I said, I don't think the doubters are crazy for what they believe. I know there is a noticeable difference in the tracks.
Like many others, I'm mostly just here for fun discussion with you all and hoping this issue gets resolved asap. I think it's a good place for us to get our thoughts on the matter out and debate them. This has been a very nice thread despite going through some tough times, but that's life eh?
And that makes sense about Jason having to disable his accounts because of hacking. Kind of goes along with my theory that he was being harassed a lot for people suspecting him of this!
No doubt he was getting some heavy duty 'cyber-bullying'.
By the way, using the argument that Michael didn't take down his site when he was accused of being a pedophile is weak, as Michael is one of the biggest stars in the world and his franchise demands a website. Malachi, other other hand, no one gives a crap if his website goes down because he doesn't want to pay for the bandwidth anymore.
Lots of people think Best Of Joy is a bad song. I think it's amazing.
And like someone said earlier, This Is It is 'boring' and I disagreed. Just because you think something is terrible or boring doesn't mean others think the same.
Oh well... I really don't let it bother me anymore. Maybe I would have when I was younger but I hear people talk trash on music I love all the time. I'm so used to it already. But I have no problem pointing out when I think somethings a little rude. It's okay though! Samhabib's predictable smartass comments are entertainment a lot of the time.
And yes, I missed samhabib a bit. Sam, I have no doubt, is a very good person, however comes across very rudely and insulting sometimes when it comes to this issue. Saying I'm a cheerleader when how many people are his cheerleaders?
He's just silly sometimes! But I love you all, you are all great people! Like I said, I don't think the doubters are crazy for what they believe. I know there is a noticeable difference in the tracks.
Like many others, I'm mostly just here for fun discussion with you all and hoping this issue gets resolved asap. I think it's a good place for us to get our thoughts on the matter out and debate them. This has been a very nice thread despite going through some tough times, but that's life eh?
And that makes sense about Jason having to disable his accounts because of hacking. Kind of goes along with my theory that he was being harassed a lot for people suspecting him of this!
No doubt he was getting some heavy duty 'cyber-bullying'.
By the way, using the argument that Michael didn't take down his site when he was accused of being a pedophile is weak, as Michael is one of the biggest stars in the world and his franchise demands a website. Malachi, other other hand, no one gives a crap if his website goes down because he doesn't want to pay for the bandwidth anymore.
AnnieRUOkay89
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
Is there really a need to call names and accuse?
As for that part I said earlier, I apologize to you for that. :agree:..But the answer still stands, you didn't give an opinion, you simply undermine everyone else who doesn't share the same. As if what you believe is a fact; Despite what you think, in my opinion, the song in question share's more resemblance to the two songs named, than it does to anything by Malachi. If that bothers you, to the point where you would get 'sick' over someone's belief, then it'll be rather difficult for me to converse with you on the matter. Because of your emotion's and difficulty to agree to disagree on a simple question, then the discussion will go in circles.
Is there really a need to call names and accuse?
As for that part I said earlier, I apologize to you for that. :agree:..But the answer still stands, you didn't give an opinion, you simply undermine everyone else who doesn't share the same. As if what you believe is a fact; Despite what you think, in my opinion, the song in question share's more resemblance to the two songs named, than it does to anything by Malachi. If that bothers you, to the point where you would get 'sick' over someone's belief, then it'll be rather difficult for me to converse with you on the matter. Because of your emotion's and difficulty to agree to disagree on a simple question, then the discussion will go in circles.
Jesta
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
Great post, Annie! The key thing about a debate such as this is that people remain respectful of others opinions and that ideals shouldn't be forced on others. Like Aniram, I'm mostly here for the entertainment and fun discussion factor now.
I know this is off-topic, but in memory of Elizabeth Taylor, would anyone like the Estate to release "Elizabeth, I Love You" as a charity single, with proceeds going to the Elizabeth Taylor AIDS Foundation? I only ask because I believe they may release it if fan demand is big enough.
Great post, Annie! The key thing about a debate such as this is that people remain respectful of others opinions and that ideals shouldn't be forced on others. Like Aniram, I'm mostly here for the entertainment and fun discussion factor now.
I know this is off-topic, but in memory of Elizabeth Taylor, would anyone like the Estate to release "Elizabeth, I Love You" as a charity single, with proceeds going to the Elizabeth Taylor AIDS Foundation? I only ask because I believe they may release it if fan demand is big enough.
AnnieRUOkay89
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
I don't know if the Estate would release it, but I'd love for it to happen. That's one of my favorite songs, and performance.
I don't know if the Estate would release it, but I'd love for it to happen. That's one of my favorite songs, and performance.
Jesta
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
I actually contacted the MJ Online Team, who works directly for the Estate, about it and they said that while the Estate is focused more on relief for Japan, the idea will be put forward. If it's for charity, I could definitely imagine them releasing it. I'd love to hear a full studio version if it exists!
I actually contacted the MJ Online Team, who works directly for the Estate, about it and they said that while the Estate is focused more on relief for Japan, the idea will be put forward. If it's for charity, I could definitely imagine them releasing it. I'd love to hear a full studio version if it exists!
if.it.aint.broke.break.it
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
They could release it for Record Store Day.
Aniram
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
In your message to the Estate, Jesta, did you also put a "P.S. Why does Michael sound like Jason Malachi on Monster and Keep Your Head Up and Breaking News?"
In your message to the Estate, Jesta, did you also put a "P.S. Why does Michael sound like Jason Malachi on Monster and Keep Your Head Up and Breaking News?"
Lucilla
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
did you do this? :lol:
Or maybe other....
Bruce Wayne?:
did you do this? :lol:
Jesta
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
I decided not to bring up the Cascio controversy just in case they ignore it all together. I fully wanted the message to be be about Elizabeth Taylor. Besides, as I said, the voice on the tracks hardly sounds like Malachi to me.
I decided not to bring up the Cascio controversy just in case they ignore it all together. I fully wanted the message to be be about Elizabeth Taylor. Besides, as I said, the voice on the tracks hardly sounds like Malachi to me.
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
To get back to the issue regarding the difference in voice between the Cascio tracks and all other tracks, in all objectivity, I so far see three possibilities:
1) After multiple listenings, people have been brainwashed and are convinced they hear MJ or JM.
2) People don't hear MJ, but as he is officially credited, they opted to trust the official statement despite what their ears hear.
3) People really do hear MJ on those tracks in all honesty, while others don't, regardless of the (un)official statement(s), credits and controversy.
In the first case, the debate is similar to arguing if the mirage is reality or illusion at the moment of experiencing it, as the observer will opt to believe what would be the most convenient and what would seem logical to their brain. The only way to reverse the process of brainwashing is to go and check if the place they see is an illusion or not (in this case).
[youtube]p-GPvngnCZ8[/youtube]
In the second case, the debate is similar to telling a believer that his religious book contains contradictions. Instead of checking the contradictions and trying to find a logical explanation, the people, like sheep, follow what they've been told by the lawmakers without questioning the single possible error or the flaw on the one hand and the single possible "legal" corruption or fraud by the deceivers on the other hand.
For example it is similar to a case where a religious law forbids sexual relationship outside the marriage, and people --to cover themselves legally-- get married, have "legal" sex and then, the day after they get divorced. The law was "respected". In order to prove fraud, in this case, the doers must admit their fraud themselves. But untill then, they will be held trustworthy by the people who don't question (despite obvious contradiction) the flaws of the law or the possibility of "breaking legally" the law.
[youtube]vldh7oQD-a4[/youtube]
In the third case, we are obliged to conclude that different people do hear the same sound differently regardless of (un)official statement(s), hence the division of opinion. For example if a sound of explosion occurs one will be sure they have heard a gunshot, while others will claim they have heard a bang coming out of a car's exhaust.
As a conclusion, before proving who sings the Cascio songs, it would be interesting to know in which category the debater is situated in order to know what to debate actually. All the same, as presented in the third case, it would be interesting to know what people have in common which leads them to believe they heard a gunshot, as well as to know what people have in common which leads them to believe they heard a bang out of a car's exhaust. Likewise, how come some people regardless of official statements do hear either Michael Jackson or Jason Malachi on the Cascio tracks? They must have something in common as far as their listening skills are concerned. But what?
[youtube]PANEcjhSfv4[/youtube]
To get back to the issue regarding the difference in voice between the Cascio tracks and all other tracks, in all objectivity, I so far see three possibilities:
1) After multiple listenings, people have been brainwashed and are convinced they hear MJ or JM.
2) People don't hear MJ, but as he is officially credited, they opted to trust the official statement despite what their ears hear.
3) People really do hear MJ on those tracks in all honesty, while others don't, regardless of the (un)official statement(s), credits and controversy.
In the first case, the debate is similar to arguing if the mirage is reality or illusion at the moment of experiencing it, as the observer will opt to believe what would be the most convenient and what would seem logical to their brain. The only way to reverse the process of brainwashing is to go and check if the place they see is an illusion or not (in this case).
[youtube]p-GPvngnCZ8[/youtube]
In the second case, the debate is similar to telling a believer that his religious book contains contradictions. Instead of checking the contradictions and trying to find a logical explanation, the people, like sheep, follow what they've been told by the lawmakers without questioning the single possible error or the flaw on the one hand and the single possible "legal" corruption or fraud by the deceivers on the other hand.
For example it is similar to a case where a religious law forbids sexual relationship outside the marriage, and people --to cover themselves legally-- get married, have "legal" sex and then, the day after they get divorced. The law was "respected". In order to prove fraud, in this case, the doers must admit their fraud themselves. But untill then, they will be held trustworthy by the people who don't question (despite obvious contradiction) the flaws of the law or the possibility of "breaking legally" the law.
[youtube]vldh7oQD-a4[/youtube]
In the third case, we are obliged to conclude that different people do hear the same sound differently regardless of (un)official statement(s), hence the division of opinion. For example if a sound of explosion occurs one will be sure they have heard a gunshot, while others will claim they have heard a bang coming out of a car's exhaust.
As a conclusion, before proving who sings the Cascio songs, it would be interesting to know in which category the debater is situated in order to know what to debate actually. All the same, as presented in the third case, it would be interesting to know what people have in common which leads them to believe they heard a gunshot, as well as to know what people have in common which leads them to believe they heard a bang out of a car's exhaust. Likewise, how come some people regardless of official statements do hear either Michael Jackson or Jason Malachi on the Cascio tracks? They must have something in common as far as their listening skills are concerned. But what?
[youtube]PANEcjhSfv4[/youtube]
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
4) Some people on this forum have been listening to Michaels voice since before they could walk and are pretty certain that the vocals on those tracks are not MJ regardless of any statements
4) Some people on this forum have been listening to Michaels voice since before they could walk and are pretty certain that the vocals on those tracks are not MJ regardless of any statements
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
Well that's the 3d statement. People honestly hear Michael's vocals, while others hear Jason's. Surprisingly some people have listened Michael for more than twenty years and believe the Cascio tracks are sung by MJ.
Well that's the 3d statement. People honestly hear Michael's vocals, while others hear Jason's. Surprisingly some people have listened Michael for more than twenty years and believe the Cascio tracks are sung by MJ.
samhabib
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
I said Is It Scary is a masterpiece - opinion.
I said Monster is a joke - opinion.
So on what basis are you claiming that I didn''t state an opinion?
In your opinion, what are the resemblances?
I said Is It Scary is a masterpiece - opinion.
I said Monster is a joke - opinion.
So on what basis are you claiming that I didn''t state an opinion?
In your opinion, what are the resemblances?
samhabib
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
I broke my response down and went into detail. Is It Scary is orchestral. It's also soulful. And has dance elements. The kind of musical montage that only Michael Jackson could compose.
That's not subjective. That's all absolutely provable. The intro is orchestral as are the choral elements. The bridge is soulful. And the uptempo sections are dance. That's all definitive and provable. The lyrics are autobiographical. The vocals are swirling.
Monster, on the other hand, is lyrically weak. Vocally it's a non-starter. And musically it's mediocre. Or is someone really going to claim it's a masterpiece?
I broke my response down and went into detail. Is It Scary is orchestral. It's also soulful. And has dance elements. The kind of musical montage that only Michael Jackson could compose.
That's not subjective. That's all absolutely provable. The intro is orchestral as are the choral elements. The bridge is soulful. And the uptempo sections are dance. That's all definitive and provable. The lyrics are autobiographical. The vocals are swirling.
Monster, on the other hand, is lyrically weak. Vocally it's a non-starter. And musically it's mediocre. Or is someone really going to claim it's a masterpiece?
samhabib
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
Mods? Anyone? Can I reply to this in kind?
Samhabib's predictable smartass comments are entertainment a lot of the time.
And yes, I missed samhabib a bit. Sam, I have no doubt, is a very good person, however comes across very rudely and insulting sometimes when it comes to this issue. Saying I'm a cheerleader when how many people are his cheerleaders?
He's just silly sometimes!
Mods? Anyone? Can I reply to this in kind?
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
+ Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis
+ Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis
samhabib
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
Oh yes... what would Michael Jackson the composer be without Jam & Lewis!
Oh yes... what would Michael Jackson the composer be without Jam & Lewis!
Kapital77
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It´s clear that some will continue to think it´s Michael and others (like me) will think it´s Malachi.
There´s no need to fight againts us, because we already know what the other side think about the tracks and i´t sure that Amiran, Ivi, Jesta etc.. will never change what they think about the Cascio´s songs till the moment when a court will say what they don´t want to hear: That it´s Malachi in the Cascio´s songs.
The only way to go it´s to find por evidences, more proofs, try to send the info to the new members or fans outside this forum, and wait till someone, like the Jackson Family, go to court.
There´s no need to fight againts us, because we already know what the other side think about the tracks and i´t sure that Amiran, Ivi, Jesta etc.. will never change what they think about the Cascio´s songs till the moment when a court will say what they don´t want to hear: That it´s Malachi in the Cascio´s songs.
The only way to go it´s to find por evidences, more proofs, try to send the info to the new members or fans outside this forum, and wait till someone, like the Jackson Family, go to court.
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
Well they co-produced is it Scary, thats what you replied to wasn't it, so its pretty safe to say the song you cherish wouldn't be the same without these guys
Well they co-produced is it Scary, thats what you replied to wasn't it, so its pretty safe to say the song you cherish wouldn't be the same without these guys
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
In my opinion, according to Annie's opinion you didn't express your opinion the way Annie expressed her opinion, but that's just my opinion.
In my opinion, according to Annie's opinion you didn't express your opinion the way Annie expressed her opinion, but that's just my opinion.
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
Maybe it would have been better?
Well they co-produced is it Scary, thats what you replied to wasn't it, so its pretty safe to say the song you cherish wouldn't be the same without these guys
Maybe it would have been better?
samhabib
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)
You're right. And they could have written and produced that same song with Jason Malachi and it would have been just as good. Right?
Well they co-produced is it Scary, thats what you replied to wasn't it, so its pretty safe to say the song you cherish wouldn't be the same without these guys
You're right. And they could have written and produced that same song with Jason Malachi and it would have been just as good. Right?