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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'm still a little sad that no one really responded to my (i think well written) devils advocate post.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

adamschoales said:
I'm still a little sad that no one really responded to my (i think well written) devils advocate post.
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I read your post; it was great! It's what we've been saying all along ;)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

noirnoar said:
Gosh, I love this thread.:girl_pride:
Followed since day 1, learned a lot, laughed a lot, disagreed, but never participated in debate. Flirting & harmless jokes ares OK, does relax tension (guys, great sense of humor). Even if the mods closes the thread, it will always be hot topic with the fans around the world, and it will not go away. Controversy will always be there.
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God bless you! This gives us strength. :pash:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Thank you noirnoar for the support :)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

adamschoales said:
I'm still a little sad that no one really responded to my (i think well written) devils advocate post.
Click to expand...

See below:

love is magical said:
As Adam pointed out, sonically and lyrically, the songs will not fit in the JM playlist. Jason didn't have a producer the caliber of Teddy Riley and Tricky Stewart to produce his songs. Like Teddy's work or not, he's a talented musician and one of the best producers in the industry. Also, Sony is not a mom-and-pop label. Sony has all production resources on command to "polish" the tracks.

Point #3 and point #4 are related to credibility. First, I want to ask how much do we know about the Cascios? I really don't know that much about them. Many of you assume Michael had a continuous friendship with them over 20 years. Was the friendship on and off? Was there any issue or argument between the Cascios and Michael over the years? The fact is we don't know. As Adam pointed out, all we know is that they keep their friendship with Michael a secret until his death. I'm sure there are many people in Michael's life who keep their friendship/relationship to only themselves, death or alive.

If it's so easy to find parts of songs from two different singers that sound almost identical? How come there is no "old joe" doing any comparison between parts from the Cascio tracks and Michael's known songs? Anyone volunteer? I'd love to see the result.
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I like you post so much that I referred to it twice in my post. :cheeky::better:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Thanks friend! :)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I accept your apologies Larry, no worries. I know that I may sound harsh sometimes, but I also want you to know that it is never aimed at the person, only at the specific comment.
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@ L I M & @ Ark : You welcome. :kickass:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
For me freedom of speech is being able to joke even if it does have some sexual connotation, nothing dirty or insulting was pronounced whatsoever. Why are you even stirring this up?
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I know I'm late but let's agree to stay on topic from now on.

Actually there have been previous complaints of "off topic" talks such as sponge bob etc. , we let them slide as they kinda served to be a "cool off" period for many people here.

Of course you have freedom of speech, but every speech needs to happen in the appropriate place. No one is saying that you can't joke , but let's keep them to a minimum and use this thread for "Album debate".
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I think that the off topic talk is probably the best thing for this thread (and other threads)...It's ok to veer off more often than not as long as it's respectful, kept in light fun, and friendly....I really don't understand how people can complain about that...With all the negativity and fighting in the last few months, I think it's a healthy thing to do...What more do people want, honestly?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

love is magical said:
Point #3 and point #4 are related to credibility. First, I want to ask how much do we know about the Cascios? I really don't know that much about them. Many of you assume Michael had a continuous friendship with them over 20 years. Was the friendship on and off? Was there any issue or argument between the Cascios and Michael over the years? The fact is we don't know. As Adam pointed out, all we know is that they keep their friendship with Michael a secret until his death. I'm sure there are many people in Michael's life who keep their friendship/relationship to only themselves, death or alive.
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But throughout Michael's life it seemed as if the one's that were quiet in regards to their relationship, meant the most to him and were people he relied on. Even after the songs leaked and the album was due, they never really sought out any attention, not until the questions about the vocals came, and they were requested to be on Oprah. It was always believed those that were quiet, throughout Michael's life, were more friends to Michael, than any of those who claimed such title in front of a camera. Not to seem like I'm too pro-Casio, but these people were pretty much unknown until being sought out, and outside of a newspaper article from the 80's and Franks interview in '05, they continued to respect Michael and his privacy, after his death and up until the promotion of "Michael". For that, shouldn't they at least be considered as credible as a Liz Taylor, Liza Minelli, or Diana Ross? People are looked at as some of Michael's closest friends for the fact that they've respected his wishes and privacy?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

So they recorded twelve fake songs, the Cascio's or Sony did.

So what happens when the next album comes out and they have a few more Cascio tracks to release and that's it, if they even release them at all? That's all it was for? Twelve songs? Why not twenty? Why not thirty? Forty? Fifty? Not like faking tracks couldn't be done forever. They could always rehire these people. This doesn't need to be limited to a twelve-song deal here. It could keep going and going. They could have said, 'He recorded many songs with the Cascios' to make it possible to keep releasing fakes.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

ivy said:
I know I'm late but let's agree to stay on topic from now on.

Actually there have been previous complaints of "off topic" talks such as sponge bob etc. , we let them slide as they kinda served to be a "cool off" period for many people here.

Of course you have freedom of speech, but every speech needs to happen in the appropriate place. No one is saying that you can't joke , but let's keep them to a minimum and use this thread for "Album debate".
Click to expand...


You singled me out as if I caused the dispute. Thanks.

Spongebob is to this topic as Michael Jackson is to Men In Black. I wish he appeared more in the movie though.

Jokes are to this thread as Joe Pesci is to Lethal Weapon.

Funny thing that public remarks are made by you against excessive jokes and not against hacking people's e-mails that have been pasted in this very thread. Even funnier is that one of the complaints about jokes was made by a hacker in this thread.

When I requested to open an off-topic thread parallel to this one where we could go and have random discussion, I was told to open it in the general forum. But everyone knows that it doesn't have the same spark there. This is the result now. People prefer staying here and have the cool off period by joking than seeing the debate derail and lock this thread for cleaning.

So please, despite our jokes, we are as a matter of fact never going to forget the initial topic. That's why we are here. We don't come here to joke as if we had planned it. It just comes up through innocent teasing. Reporting someone because of teasing or posting Spongebob picture is obviously quite exaggerating, really. Soon we'll have people reporting people for their personal pictures as avatars.

By the way, what is the exact limit of exaggeration? Is there somewhere a rule that stipulates how many jokes we can post so that we know when the limit is reached?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Jesta said:
Yay for videos!
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Jesta, I don't know if it's because of the rehearsal, but it's too soft. Put a high dose of energy in it. It must be exothermic, not endothermic!

Re-watch the advice that Michael Jackson gives to Michael Jordan in Jam at the end of the video. Feel the power! And express it! Be the fire, be the explosion.

The same for your movements. They should be much more precise. Like knifes or swords that cut the air. Every single atom of your body should dance, even your fingers. Mime! Breakdance! Spin on one imaginary spot! Hover! Fly!
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@ Jesta, I have impression that you are shy. Michael was shy too, but not on scene.

On scene he was explosive!

Open your chest, create a bigger imaginary sphere around you with your arms and legs with sharper and more precise movements. Don't forget to stop the movement where you want to stop them, don't let the natural celerity do its job, you do the job against the natural celerity, you stop the movement. Don't be afraid to have eye-contact with the camera and/or the public, unless you play a role in the scenario in which case you should not look into the publics eyes and should avoid to look straight into the camera. In any case, don't hide your body/face language expression, unless you have a hat hiding your face expression.

Be perfectionist --which means don't ever be satisfied with your performance fully. Don't be afraid to heavily criticize yourself until you think you reached something near perfect.

Bring something original and unexpected into your performance. Public loves that!

Look here an excellent and innovative imitation:

[youtube]iBMFTlsEln8[/youtube]
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^ Care to record yourself dancing and share it with us, Bumper, expert of the dance? :D

I'm sure Jesta's never heard Michael Jackson talk about performing before, not like he's a big fan or anything. :p
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram said:
^ Care to record yourself dancing and share it with us, Bumper, expert of the dance? :D

I'm sure Jesta's never heard Michael Jackson talk about performing before, not like he's a big fan or anything. :p
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Again a personal attack!

Jesta asked me to give my opinion months ago. Now that I've given it, you couldn't help it, could you?
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
You singled me out as if I caused the dispute. Thanks.

Spongebob is to this topic as Michael Jackson is to Men In Black. I wish he appeared more in the movie though.

Jokes are to this thread as Joe Pesci is to Lethal Weapon.

Funny thing that public remarks are made by you against excessive jokes and not against hacking people's e-mails that have been pasted in this very thread. Even funnier is that one of the complaints about jokes was made by a hacker in this thread.

When I requested to open an off-topic thread parallel to this one where we could go and have random discussion, I was told to open it in the general forum. But everyone knows that it doesn't have the same spark there. This is the result now. People prefer staying here and have the cool off period by joking than seeing the debate derail and lock this thread for cleaning.

So please, despite our jokes, we are as a matter of fact never going to forget the initial topic. That's why we are here. We don't come here to joke as if we had planned it. It just comes up through innocent teasing. Reporting someone because of teasing or posting Spongebob picture is obviously quite exaggerating, really. Soon we'll have people reporting people for their personal pictures as avatars.

By the way, what is the exact limit of exaggeration? Is there somewhere a rule that stipulates how many jokes we can post so that we know when the limit is reached?
Click to expand...

This is exactly my sentiment! :agree:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Thanks for the advice! I am generally pretty shy, though I am restraining myself when rehearsing. That being said, that was recorded in January. It's near the actual performance now, so I'll give it my all from now on!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Jesta said:
Thanks for the advice! I am generally pretty shy, though I am restraining myself when rehearsing. That being said, that was recorded in January. It's near the actual performance now, so I'll give it my all from now on!
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Don't be shy on scene! Show them what you got, but always with calculated movements, that's what the rehearsals are for.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

:popout:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yeah, I'm never really shy on stage, it comes so natural to me! I've actually been taking time out for the "Behind the Mask" video, and I should have presentable/submittable footage next week. Does anyone know the deadline for it?

Starting April, I'll start rehearsing more often and more vigorously. I'll also focus more on specific portions of the choreography.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Jesta said:
Yeah, I'm never really shy on stage, it comes so natural to me! I've actually been taking time out for the "Behind the Mask" video, and I should have presentable/submittable footage next week. Does anyone know the deadline for it?

Starting April, I'll start rehearsing more often and more vigorously. I'll also focus more on specific portions of the choreography.
Click to expand...


Do you have anyone who could pop in in your choreography as an unexpected surprise and join you dancing?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Unfortunately not. I was originally going to have a surprise opening with my friend where I would suddenly appear when the beginning of "Dangerous" happens, but we both decided on a quick, loud opening that would catch the audience off-guard.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

AnnieRUOkay89 said:
But throughout Michael's life it seemed as if the one's that were quiet in regards to their relationship, meant the most to him and were people he relied on. Even after the songs leaked and the album was due, they never really sought out any attention, not until the questions about the vocals came, and they were requested to be on Oprah. It was always believed those that were quiet, throughout Michael's life, were more friends to Michael, than any of those who claimed such title in front of a camera. Not to seem like I'm too pro-Casio, but these people were pretty much unknown until being sought out, and outside of a newspaper article from the 80's and Franks interview in '05, they continued to respect Michael and his privacy, after his death and up until the promotion of "Michael". For that, shouldn't they at least be considered as credible as a Liz Taylor, Liza Minelli, or Diana Ross? People are looked at as some of Michael's closest friends for the fact that they've respected his wishes and privacy?
Click to expand...

There is nothing wrong to be "pro-Casios". I'm not trying to dig out some dirts or discredit the Cascios. What I want to say is that fans know close to nothing about this family. Even Michael himself didn't talk much about the Cascios publicly. Eddie Cascio may as well be Michael's closest friend, but do we really know? Should we considered the family as credible as Liz Taylor, Liza Minelli or Diana Ross? There is no definite answer. How do we know if we don't know what Michael truly felt about his friends. Honestly, I don't even consiser Liz, Liza or Diana 100% credible. But, at least Michael expressed his love of Liz and Diana many times in his life.

Many fans have made a lot of assumptions. Some said Eddie loves and respects Michael and Michael loved the family. My question is on what basis you made such conclusion. Thus far, we have seen a couple home videos, a couple pictures and some anecdotes told by the family. These are all we have. Yes, they remained silent about their relationship with Michael when he's alive, so do some other friends of Michael that we don't even know. Actually, I'm sure some of Michael's friends choose to remain silent forever. Being silent doesn't automatically translate to credibility.

Again, I'm not saying the family is bad people. I just don't understand this high level of trust some of you placed in the Cascios.

Aniram said:
So they recorded twelve fake songs, the Cascio's or Sony did.

So what happens when the next album comes out and they have a few more Cascio tracks to release and that's it, if they even release them at all? That's all it was for? Twelve songs? Why not twenty? Why not thirty? Forty? Fifty? Not like faking tracks couldn't be done forever. They could always rehire these people. This doesn't need to be limited to a twelve-song deal here. It could keep going and going. They could have said, 'He recorded many songs with the Cascios' to make it possible to keep releasing fakes.
Click to expand...


Why not 50 Cascio tracks? Do you think people would really believe Michael Jackson recorded 50 tracks in such short period of time? Of course they could have said Michael Jackson recorded many songs with the Cascios, but would fans believe Michael Jackson, the ultimate perfectionist, recorded 50 songs in a basement studio?

The name Cascio is meaningless to me. I don't care it's the Dileo or Giordano. It's the implication of releasing such low quality demos that worry me. It opens the door for Sony to pour sub-standard recordings in the future. Next time, Sony could have claimed Michael recorded the song with some no-name producer in a garage.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

love is magical said:
There is nothing wrong to be "pro-Casios". I'm not trying to dig out some dirts or discredit the Cascios. What I want to say is that fans know close to nothing about this family. Even Michael himself didn't talk much about the Cascios publicly. Eddie Cascio may as well be Michael's closest friend, but do we really know? Should we considered the family as credible as Liz Taylor, Liza Minelli or Diana Ross? There is no definite answer. How do we know if we don't know what Michael truly felt about his friends. Honestly, I don't even consiser Liz, Liza or Diana 100% credible. But, at least Michael expressed his love of Liz and Diana many times in his life.

Many fans have made a lot of assumptions. Some said Eddie loves and respects Michael and Michael loved the family. My question is on what basis you made such conclusion. Thus far, we have seen a couple home videos, a couple pictures and some anecdotes told by the family. These are all we have. Yes, they remained silent about their relationship with Michael when he's alive, so do some other friends of Michael that we don't even know. Actually, I'm sure some of Michael's friends choose to remain silent forever. Being silent doesn't automatically translate to credibility.

Again, I'm not saying the family is bad people. I just don't understand this high level of trust some of you placed in the Cascios.




Why not 50 Cascio tracks? Do you think people would really believe Michael Jackson recorded 50 tracks in such short period of time? Of course they could have said Michael Jackson recorded many songs with the Cascios, but would fans believe Michael Jackson, the ultimate perfectionist, recorded 50 songs in a basement studio?

The name Cascio is meaningless to me. I don't care it's the Dileo or Giordano. It's the implication of releasing such low quality demos that worry me. It opens the door for Sony to pour sub-standard recordings in the future. Next time, Sony could have claimed Michael recorded the song with some no-name producer in a garage.
Click to expand...

And sang through tyres and valves.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Look what i found:

[youtube]sEgu5Zsb8vg[/youtube]
 
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