Michael - The Great Album Debate

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

...In response to the comments over in the TMZ thread (about the HT video). This way it doesn't derail that thread, and indeed it's more relevant here...



I think the dissatisfaction people post in this thread in regards to this issue is evidence. So too is the drop-off in numbers of people who still post here. The conclusion I draw is that it is too unpleasant to be part of due to certain members. I'm sure people will back me up on that.

...Why don't we open a Poll thread about how many people don't want to be a part of the debate thread after being insulted or having their views responded to aggressively? You'll find many who find it unpleasant.

Your assessment is valid if the viewership and number of posts dropped ONLY in this thread.

The decrease in number of people who are still posting in this sub-forum is consistent in EVERY thread. Some of the less heated thread such as the Best of Joy Appreciation Thread (free of controversy talk) see the same decrease in viewership and number of postings.

It's unfair to blame an individual or a group of people for people's diminishing interest in the album. Many people simply choose to move on from this album.

If what you said is true, why this thread remains one of the most popular and up-to-date? Where are the people who are supposedly discouraged from posting here going to? They have tens and hundreds of threads for them to voice their opinons/supports/appreciations. Why those threads are so slow when compare to this one?

The insults that you mentioned do not come from only one side. If you see the pre-cleansed version of this thread, you will see the aggression and insults coming from the non-doubters are uncalled for.

As to whether it's pleasant or not to debate in this thread, it really depends on your perspective. It's not always lighthearted and fun; but, I do learn a lot from both sides. I've learned a lot from Ivy (who I don't agree with most of the time. Lol...) I've learned a lot from Sam. I admire his passions. I truly do.

It'a debate thread, not an appreciation thread. Things, of course, will not always be pleasant.

If one is patient enough to follow every page in this thread, one will find many rare, interesting info/links to appreciate. Many sterotype this thread as a bashing thread, mindless arguing thread. I just find it unfair. Many people, doubters and believers, put a lot of thoughts into their posts.

kinda

...you have to admit some people spend way too long in here arguing around in circles. Fighting over it and insulting each other isn't accomplishing anything. It's fair to say the thread has become redundant.

Perhaps it would function better if it was more pleasant

First, unpleasant does not equal to disfunctional. I have watched many great debates before. Do I think the presidential candiates debate is pleasant to watch? I don't. Are the candidates always polite? I hope so, but they aren't. Mind you, I'm not advocating rude behavior. Actually, respect is the key.

You keep saying we are arguing in circles. Yet, you completely ignore the knowledge and information that brought up by people from both sides all along.

I can't speak for others. I, myself, do have a family, a job and a LIFE. I do need to work to make ends meet. I'm still here because I'm passionate about Michael Jackson and I find this thread intriguing.

Whether this thread becomes redundant or not? Again, it depends on what mindset that you have when you click in here.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

jmoses, what is your take on the Cascio tracks? Might as well stick to the topic at hand.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Good post, love is magical.

And samhabib, I have reported before. I don't usually see the insulting posts, though, before they're removed. Honestly, I don't think you and others are usually rude. Most of the time, discussion is very nice, interesting and insightful. It seems like someone comes trolling along and throws everyone off...

I have never just blamed the 'doubters' for being rude. I have seen both sides be rude. I only say that I wish we could be respectful to fellow fans through this and not insult and threaten each other.

I hope that we are all searching for the truth in this thread. That is all. I don't purposely come in here to try to belittle the beliefs of others. I only come in here to ask questions and present my opinions, hoping we can figure this all out as soon as possible.

 

[Remington Steele]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Guys, like Tom Jones said - don't give yourself such a hard ti-i-ime .

I can't understand either how anybody can believe it's Michael on the Cascios... but why not just focus on the remaining tracks.

Did "Hold my hand" grow on you, too? Honestly I'm not such a big fan of slow songs and wasn't too excited about HMH in the beginning, but now I truely love it! :wub:

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Good post, love is magical.

And samhabib, I have reported before. I don't usually see the insulting posts, though, before they're removed. Honestly, I don't think you and others are usually rude. Most of the time, discussion is very nice, interesting and insightful. It seems like someone comes trolling along and throws everyone off...

I have never just blamed the 'doubters' for being rude. I have seen both sides be rude. I only say that I wish we could be respectful to fellow fans through this and not insult and threaten each other.

I hope that we are all searching for the truth in this thread. That is all. I don't purposely come in here to try to belittle the beliefs of others. I only come in here to ask questions and present my opinions, hoping we can figure this all out as soon as possible.

Thanks for telling the truth! :clapping:

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

apparently a fight broke out here, man I can't even do a coffee run without an event.

and I'll add this as well - if this thread continues to be a venue for continuous insults / fights or threats towards other people I believe it's time to close it for good. there's no sense in maintaining a debate thread if we cannot debate respectfully and intelligently.

 

[jmoses]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Thank you, Love Is Magical. I really appreciate the reply. With it, I see the potential in this thread, but although debates can get heated, i do feel often its less than civil. Hopefully it will improve. I'm all for healthy discussion, but some here need to be more respectful.

Thanks also, Aniram. I agree it can be a good thread here, but hopefully less cleaning will be necessary and those who get aggressive will hold back a bit. I have faith.

Arklove, although I didn't want my arguement there to support either side, now that I've made my point, I'll admit I've had my doubts in the past, but after going over Invincible, and then listening to the leaked "Stay" I am coming around to it being MJ and the fault being in the overproduction on Michael.

Breaking News and Monster both feel very cobbled together. I don't like Teddy's philosophy of cut and paste production. He's a bit sloppy. KYHU is poorly written, but yeh I don't think anything is fake.

Samhabib, don't jump on me for that.

I'm thinking MJ's music shouldnt be updated at all. If it's unreleasable, don't release it. I would've much preferred an album of outtakes with maybe some faithful audio mixing/finishing by the original producer.

...then again, I don't count Michael as a real MJ album, and most of the songs i've pushed aside. If we have to get these updated, overproduced albums, I'll take them for what they are. I just hope they take more care in future.

Nobody can take his actual albums away from me. Thats what matters.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I want to know what people think about the fact that Jason can supposedly do the vibrato just fine in parts of All I Need, but couldn't put in the effort to do it even a LITTLE better in the other parts.

Like I've said before in this thread, the vibrato seems almost inhuman, like a robot. Both Jason and Michael don't sound that way... I think it is a mechanical vibrato.

I don't remember anyone really sharing their thoughts on that... If Jason CAN do the vibrato sometime(s), wouldn't it be likely that he could rerecord the other parts to sound better, like in the beginning of All I Need?

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I want to know what people think about the fact that Jason can supposedly do the vibrato just fine in parts of All I Need, but couldn't put in the effort to do it even a LITTLE better in the other parts.

Like I've said before in this thread, the vibrato seems almost inhuman, like a robot. Both Jason and Michael don't sound that way... I think it is a mechanical vibrato.

I don't remember anyone really sharing their thoughts on that... If Jason CAN do the vibrato sometime(s), wouldn't it be likely that he could rerecord the other parts to sound better, like in the beginning of All I Need?

That vibrato that you hear in the Cascio tracks sounds exactly like the vibrato we hear in Jason Malachi's songs, including his acapella of Don't Walk Away that's been posted numerous times.

@jmoses, thanks for your reply.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I disagree, of course I've seen Don't Walk Away... I have the song and have listened to the acapella each time it's posted. I know what you're telling me to hear, I say it's a lot different. Doesn't answer my question as to why he can pull it off sometimes? If he can pull it off sometimes, suddenly do his vibrato without the goat quality, why not do it the whole song? It's too hard for him?

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I disagree, of course I've seen Don't Walk Away... I have the song and have listened to the acapella each time it's posted. I know what you're telling me to hear, I say it's a lot different. Doesn't answer my question as to why he can pull it off sometimes? If he can pull it off sometimes, suddenly do his vibrato without the goat quality, why not do it the whole song? It's too hard for him?

I'm not really sure as his vibrato has always sounded the same to me.

 

[Worldwide]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I disagree, of course I've seen Don't Walk Away... I have the song and have listened to the acapella each time it's posted. I know what you're telling me to hear, I say it's a lot different. Doesn't answer my question as to why he can pull it off sometimes? If he can pull it off sometimes, suddenly do his vibrato without the goat quality, why not do it the whole song? It's too hard for him?

The vibrato on the "debatable" songs is extened by a computer, but still it is Michael. I'm convinced by it. I made DIY acapellas of parts of the songs, and the vibrato seems stretched out and made longer than it really is.

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

back to topic please

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Is this discussion of the vibrato not part of the topic, ivy, or are you referring to something else?

I think it's quite relevant that the vibrato is just fine in the beginning of All I Need.

 

[jmoses]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Can I ask what you guys think of the Vibrato in "you are my life"? I've been listening to Invincible lately and it struck me as interesting.

Thoughts?

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Can I ask what you guys think of the Vibrato in "you are my life"? I've been listening to Invincible lately and it struck me as interesting.

Thoughts?

Yes, it's Michael Jackson's vibrato. I really don't know what else to tell you. What are your thoughts?

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

When you listen to All I Need, do you hear Jason vibrato throughout the entire song?

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Is this discussion of the vibrato not part of the topic, ivy, or are you referring to something else?

vibrato discussion is fine. I'm referring to a group of post that I deleted.

 

[donalb]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I want to know what people think about the fact that Jason can supposedly do the vibrato just fine in parts of All I Need, but couldn't put in the effort to do it even a LITTLE better in the other parts.

Like I've said before in this thread, the vibrato seems almost inhuman, like a robot. Both Jason and Michael don't sound that way... I think it is a mechanical vibrato.

I don't remember anyone really sharing their thoughts on that... If Jason CAN do the vibrato sometime(s), wouldn't it be likely that he could rerecord the other parts to sound better, like in the beginning of All I Need?

Many of the questionable lines that have been mentioned here do not contain ANY vibrato at all. They simply do not sound like Michael Jackson in any shape or form.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

But there are LOTS of parts that sounds exactly like normal Michael Jackson. To me, enough that outweigh the stranger sounding parts.

 

[donalb]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

What about how he pronounces "Resddurraunt" in KYHU?

Is that the way Michael pronounces words when he sings?

Yep. This is a big red flag for me. The person who sings this line definitely has an EAST COAST accent. I can't believe that some people think this word came from Michael's mouth.

 

[Aniram]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Um, it was recorded in New Jersey, was it not? A place Michael stayed frequently? Or am I seriously mistaken?

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Can I ask what you guys think of the Vibrato in "you are my life"? I've been listening to Invincible lately and it struck me as interesting.

Thoughts?

I just listened to You Are My Life again. I paid more attention to the vibrato. The vibrato is smooth and natural. Typical beautiful vibrato from Michael Jackson. Care to elaborate what struck you as interesting?

 

[Anna]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Um, it was recorded in New Jersey, was it not? A place Michael stayed frequently? Or am I seriously mistaken?

Yes... But he didn't have an east coast accent. :mello:

 

[samhabib]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

But there are LOTS of parts that sounds exactly like normal Michael Jackson. To me, enough that outweigh the stranger sounding parts.

Find the 'normal Michael Jackson' parts, in that case, that you're comparing them to. Which song from Michael's catalogue do the vocals sound like?

 

[Pentum]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

All I Need and Stay are the most obvious fake songs. The vocals on AIN, I mean, REALLY? It's just not Michael. NOTHING in the song sounds like Michael at all. it sounds exactly like a pitched Jason Malachi.

I remember when I had Stay before it was leaked, laughing so hard, thinking "Man, I can't wait till this leaks! Everyone will hear how fake it is and then the rest of the songs!! Yes!!" But I was wrong.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Um, it was recorded in New Jersey, was it not? A place Michael stayed frequently? Or am I seriously mistaken?

Let's take a look. Michael was born in Indiana, stayed in the mid-west until he's 10. He moved to California and lived there ever since then.

He didn't really stay in the east coast on a regular basis. He came to New York and New Jersey many times. He stayed in NY/NJ a few months each time. How was it possible for him to acquire east coast accent when he never really stayed in the east coast for a prolong period of time.

I mean isn't it true that it takes a long period of time for an individual's accent to change?

I honestly cannot make out of Michael's accent. The way he spoke was not totally mid-western, not totally west coast. It's just very Michaelish... heehee... But, I can tell it's not Northeastern. I live in New York/New Jersey for over 10 years now. I can tell Michael doesn't talk like an American from the Northeastern region.

 

[Pentum]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Even the accent being used on all the songs is proof that it's not Michael Jackson singing.

Forensic musicologist MJ fan, where are you!?

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Even the accent being used on all the songs is proof that it's not Michael Jackson singing.

Forensic musicologist MJ fan, where are you!?

Are you looking for the linguist MJ fan? :cheeky:

 

[Pentum]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'm looking for an MJ fan who is a forensic musicologist, who can analyse all the tracks, comparing them to Jason, comparing them to MJ, the accent, everything for free. I would've done that if I was one.