Michael - The Great Album Debate

[Pentum]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Stay comparsion - watch if you want to:

[youtube]-in3AEynutc[/youtube]

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

So Ivy it's the estate (Branca and McClain) that get to decide which tracks Sony can release? And as we know McClain was against the Cascio tracks? So is it accurate then to say that ultimately the Cascio tracks being on the album is solely down to Branca?

We need to see the contract to answer that. But if I can assume knowing that Sony gave them $250M they would probably have decision making power, at least a voting system in place.

We heard that McClain collected/ cataloged all songs , Branca also said that quality wise releasable songs are limited in number. So the estate could let say from 100 songs narrow it down to 50 songs that they would be willing to allow to be released and Sony could be selecting which songs make the cut from these 50 songs.

That would be the most "logical" setting however I cannot say it for certain without the seeing the agreement.

Ps: Branca doesn't deal with "artistic" stuff, that's all McClain. Branca is looking to legal, business and deal side of the estate.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Ah, yes I vaguely remember that. I also remember that Teddy Riley said that McClain was upset that his mix of "Breaking News" wasn't used over Teddy's.

 

[mjjesamor]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Jackie Jackson, Taryll Jackson and Teddy Riley all suggested/said that McClain was against the Cascio tracks.

 

[Graf]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Jackie Jackson, Taryll Jackson and Teddy Riley all suggested/said that McClain was against the Cascio tracks.

Oh yeah..I remember that interview Teddy gave right after BN streamed..He gave me the impression John McClain was really against the Cascio tracks. Teddy wasn't happy with that.. because he wanted his stuff he produced to be the album pretty desperately.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

If what Ivy said was true, isn't it possible that he didn't like the music itself, rather than the authenticity? If he's the "artistic" half of the Estate, perhaps he just didn't like how the tracks were produced, considering he does have a habit of producing songs written/sung in the 80s.

 

[Graf]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

If what Ivy said was true, isn't it possible that he didn't like the music itself, rather than the authenticity? If he's the "artistic" half of the Estate, perhaps he just didn't like how the tracks were produced, considering he does have a habit of producing songs written/sung in the 80s.

No, I don't think has to do with the quality of the melody or w/e..as Jackie/Teddy said John Mclain had "Concerns over specific tracks" ..Like the Letter from the estate said "The authenticity of these tracks were immediately a concern." It's pretty obvious Branca and Mcclain were probably butting heads over this, with good reason too.

 

[mjjesamor]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

But you said above Ivy that anything they want to release they have to have the Estate's approval right? The Estate IS Branca and McClain right? So Sony would have selected songs and then they would all have had some say in what actually went on the album?. If McClain was against the Cascio tracks and Sony and Branca wanted them on the album McClain would be outvoted and they would be on the album, right? Considering Branca's past with Sony, previous conflicts of interest, the fact that Michael fired him etc etc this makes me very uneasy.
Tsukiji i agree i doubt it was because McClain just didn't like the tracks. When someone has 'concerns' that doesn't sound like they just don't like the tracks.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Eh, I'm still thinking that he wasn't satisfied with the production of the actual songs. I remember reading/hearing that both Teddy and McClain did mixes for "Breaking News", but McClain's mix sounded too dated.

 

[mjjesamor]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Curious how there was no mention of the two songs (two of the best songs imo) McClain was involved with in the Making of Michael documentary.........
Jesta when you say he wasn't satisfied who are you referring to? McClain?

 

[Graf]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Eh, I'm still thinking that he wasn't satisfied with the production of the actual songs. I remember reading/hearing that both Teddy and McClain did mixes for "Breaking News", but McClain's mix sounded too dated.

Trust me, it's not about production..They wouldn't be releasing statements about "being concerned about the authenticity" if it wasn't. Besides..Teddy Riley SAID 100% John McClain was the one that was the one raising questions about the vocals. The Jacksons who are think the Cascio tracks are fake are the ones siding with Mcclain, and we know it's not the production which they are questioning.

After streaming BN ~ Jackie Tweet "My friend John McClain (co-executor) and I have insisted for many weeks to have certain tracks removed from Michael's new album. "

Teddy Riley Interview after BN : "John McClain is the one that starting all this..It's Michael singing..ect."

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Hmm.... Can someone please give me some more background info on McClain?

EDIT: McClain's contributions on this album probably weren't talked about on the documentary because they weren't planned by MJ to be on an album. These are the only songs outside of the 2000 decade.

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Jackie Jackson, Taryll Jackson and Teddy Riley all suggested/said that McClain was against the Cascio tracks.

No, I don't think has to do with the quality of the melody or w/e..as Jackie/Teddy said John Mclain had "Concerns over specific tracks" ..Like the Letter from the estate said "The authenticity of these tracks were immediately a concern." It's pretty obvious Branca and Mcclain were probably butting heads over this, with good reason too.

Actually Jackie's tweet is vague. Didn't he say they had "concerns"? So it means that they doubted the vocals but then did the tests. Jackie didn't say they were against the songs to be on the album right? anyway to me it seems vague.

But you said above Ivy that anything they want to release they have to have the Estate's approval right? The Estate IS Branca and McClain right? So Sony would have selected songs and then they would all have had some say in what actually went on the album?. If McClain was against the Cascio tracks and Sony and Branca wanted them on the album McClain would be outvoted and they would be on the album, right? Considering Branca's past with Sony, previous conflicts of interest, the fact that Michael fired him etc etc this makes me very uneasy.
Tsukiji i agree i doubt it was because McClain just didn't like the tracks. When someone has 'concerns' that doesn't sound like they just don't like the tracks.

You need to know when "the approval" happens.

The "logical" scenario I gave was they had 100 songs in total which they listened and narrowed down to 50. This is where they gave approval - early in the process. Then the songs gets worked on because they "could /authorized " make the album and then they are selected with a final cut.

What you are saying an approval in the final stage - after the songs we worked and finished- , to me that doesn't make sense because working / finishing a song would require time and money (money paid to professional musicians). So they wouldn't work on every song, they would only work on the songs that "could / authorized" to make the album.

 

[Graf]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Actually Jackie's tweet is vague. Didn't he say they had "concerns"? So it means that they doubted the vocals but then did the tests. Jackie didn't say they were against the songs to be on the album right? anyway to me it seems vague.

"My friend John McClain (co-executor) and I have insisted for many weeks to have certain tracks removed from Michael's new album. " Jackie's Tweet after BN stream

Teddy Riley said in that first interview that it was John McClain that was bringing up the concerns over the authenticity...so they obviously were not happy about the decision to keep it on.

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

"My friend John McClain (co-executor) and I have insisted for many weeks to have certain tracks removed from Michael's new album. " Jackie's Tweet after BN stream

Teddy Riley said it was John McClain that was bringing up the concerns over the authenticity...so they obviously were not happy about the decision to keep it on.

thank you. my bad I was totally wrong.

 

[mjjesamor]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

That makes sense Ivy but surely the Cascio tracks were an exceptional case? They weren't just any songs, they were songs that many people believed to be fake. They were songs that required expert analysis and 'ass covering'...so is it fair to assume that despite all this it was indeed Branca alone or Branca and sony that still gave approval to put these songs on the album despite all the doubt and negative reaction? And if so....why? I just don't get it. It's not like they are exceptionally good tracks, they are awful tracks that initially 90% of the fan base reacted negatively to. Seriously Ivy i am literally tearing my hair out here! It's just insane! How could they do this?

 

[MJultimatemusiclegen]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Michael singing sitting:

[youtube]PtxUtocFuO0&feature=related[/youtube]

Just to answer those people who said that we don't have many footages of Michael in the studio, here are some and we can clearly have a glimpse how he had been working:

[youtube]tKPoWoMupbE&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]w5b0m-ZlWs8&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]A7qq2wPZKb0&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]2uloWqjazb8[/youtube]

[youtube]KQod8jMu4PA&feature=autoplay&list=PL07C408A51F2941F6&index=5&playnext=2[/youtube]

Totally off topic, but what is that groove that comes in at 0:30 in the first one, which is basically a slightly differen't version of Billie Jean, does it have a name?

 

[Pentum]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

ATTENTION:

Thanks to Worldwide, I was able to make a Keep Your Head Up VS Room 2 Breath [Jason Malachi] with only Keep Your Head Up instrumental. This will blow your mind - please listen closely to the voice.

Note: I did pitch Jason's voice with 2 +. The reason why I did this is because in my opinion, The Cascio tracks are pitched up with at least 2 +. It shouldn't really matter that much, but there is always a slight different.

http://soundcloud.com/pentum/room-2-breath-vs-keep-your

Credits goes to Worldwide.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Says you. And I don't care, get back to discussing the album please

No, says the law! And obviously you don't care about the law. But such practices are to be denounced!

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

ATTENTION:

Thanks to Worldwide, I was able to make a Keep Your Head Up VS Room 2 Breath [Jason Malachi] with only Keep Your Head Up instrumental. This will blow your mind - please listen closely to the voice.

Note: I did pitch Jason's voice with 2 +. The reason why I did this is because in my opinion, The Cascio tracks are pitched up with at least 2 +. It shouldn't really matter that much, but there is always a slight different.

http://soundcloud.com/pentum/room-2-breath-vs-keep-your

Credits goes to Worldwide.

And I suppose that what you did was done with unprofessional equipment. Can you imagine with better equipment and softwares and a producer such as Teddy Riley?

 

[Pentum]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Seriously, people. Just listen to that damn audio. What more do you want!? Can't you tell and hear, that it's the same man singing!? Same everything!

 

[mjjesamor]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

That is ****ing damning Pentum!

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

ATTENTION:

Thanks to Worldwide, I was able to make a Keep Your Head Up VS Room 2 Breath [Jason Malachi] with only Keep Your Head Up instrumental. This will blow your mind - please listen closely to the voice.

Note: I did pitch Jason's voice with 2 +. The reason why I did this is because in my opinion, The Cascio tracks are pitched up with at least 2 +. It shouldn't really matter that much, but there is always a slight different.

http://soundcloud.com/pentum/room-2-breath-vs-keep-your

Credits goes to Worldwide.

At 0.24, I couldn't even tell when one song ended and the other started...Unbelievable...Great job, Pentum...

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@ IVY

1) There is a huge piece of information that you forgot to mention. Michael, according to the contract, owed 2 new albums to SONY. So if he really wanted to work back with SONY and fulfill the terms of the contract, it would have been sufficient to release the two new albums. He never did it. What is more, if he had done it, he would have gotten his mechanical copyrights back. The fact is that till before his death Michael still hadn't done it.

2) Thriller 25 was released under Legacy records (SONY's repackage branch for compilations).

3) Watch the short interview with Michael on Access Hollywood in studio with Will I Am, although he finds the idea of revisiting Thriller a good idea, he was more focused on creating stuff, than re-creating things with SONY.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Perhaps he would've released a new album, hell maybe even two new albums during/after "This Is It" to satisfy those conditions.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Perhaps he would've released a new album, hell maybe even two new albums during/after "This Is It" to satisfy those conditions.

You are missing the point there. Michael hated to tour. Yet, he prefered that to releasing two new albums under SONY which would have allowed him to get back his mechanical copyrights.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

But this wouldn't have been a tour, at least initially. He would've stayed in one place (his primary complaint, I believe, was that he had to travel so frequently) and he would have a good few months between legs, giving him ample time to polish off existing unreleased songs and record for new albums.

Plus, the tour would've been excellent promotion for the albums. See MJ live and then pick up his new album is much more effective than a new album suddenly popping up.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Ivy and bumper darling, you two get me all confused now.

So, was Michael a free agent? Or, did he need to give Sony two new albums in order to break away from Sony?


PS: What is mechanical copyright?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Ivy and bumper darling, you two get me all confused now.

So, was Michael a free agent? Or, did he need to give Sony two new albums in order to break away from Sony?

He was a free agent, but SONY had the mechanical copyrights. In order to get the mechanical copyright back, Michael should have done two more albums, which he didn't do. So SoNY kept those mechanical copyrights.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

But this wouldn't have been a tour, at least initially. He would've stayed in one place (his primary complaint, I believe, was that he had to travel so frequently) and he would have a good few months between legs, giving him ample time to polish off existing unreleased songs and record for new albums.

Plus, the tour would've been excellent promotion for the albums. See MJ live and then pick up his new album is much more effective than a new album suddenly popping up.

Nope, the 50 O2 concerts are as exhausting when you are 50 as a world tour when you are in your 30s.