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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Arklove said:
There's no lip syncing at the end of that performance...
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Too fucking right!

The ad-libs are incredible on that performance. THAT is Michael Jackson's raw talent.

And it is NOT the same man who sounds like a boyband reject on those dreadful Cascio songs.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

MattyJam said:
Too fucking right!

The ad-libs are incredible on that performance. THAT is Michael Jackson's raw talent.

That is NOT the same man who sounds like a boyband reject on those dreadful Cascio songs.
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That's exactly it....RAW vocals....Absolutely no recreation of that by anyone...Comparing that to the weak, amateur voice on the Cascio tracks is like night and day....
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

samhabib said:
The adlibs on This Is It are from the original Earth Song demo. They're not live vocals. And he sounds fantastic on the demo.

[YOUTUBE]mhBCbg2f8ao[/YOUTUBE]
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Okay, I can see that being the same audio. Thank you, and I'll take back what I said, but even in that clip he's not using the force that he does in the actual final track, not even close. In the live performance posted, he's literally screaming it. In the demo, he doesn't seem to scream at all really, and that's what makes the song powerful, to me.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Aniram said:
Okay, I can see that being the same audio. Thank you, and I'll take back what I said, but even in that clip he's not using the force that he does in the actual final track.
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Yes he is. He's just singing in falsetto. And, again, it sounds NOTHING like these apparent 'demo' tracks.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

MattyJam said:
You think he sounds tired and weak?? That's early-90s Michael Jackson singing in his prime.
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Tired and weak! You can hear tired and weak on 'she's working two jooooobs... keeping alive...'
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Aniram said:
Okay, I can see that being the same audio. Thank you, and I'll take back what I said, but even in that clip he's not using the force that he does in the actual final track, not even close. In the live performance posted, he's literally screaming it. In the demo, he doesn't seem to scream at all really, and that's what makes the song powerful, to me.
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True, but it's undisputedly Michael Jackson's voice.

So by that logic, even when he's not singing all out, even when he's holding back, he should still sound like the same person singing.

Which is why the arguement that MJ sounds different on the Cascio songs because he's holding back is absolute rubbish.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

You think he's screaming in that demo track? I don't hear it, and of course it sounds weaker than the final version! Are you kidding? Sure, I hear the falsetto, and it's the exact same as the one from the 2006 VMA's, but I don't know why that automatically makes the Cascio tracks fake. He doesn't sound anything like that Earth Song demo in Best of Joy. Lots of different things one can do with their voice.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

samhabib said:
Tired and weak! You can hear tired and weak on 'she's working two jooooobs... keeping alive...'
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Please don't quote direct lines from the songs without at least warning me first.

I think I just threw up a little.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

If all of these "Cascio" songs are DEMOS, then why are there no signs of typical vocals and stuff MJ would do in his songs?

No mumbling
No falsetto voice to save his voice
No mistake in words

All the songs we've heard so far sounds completed as well (vers, bridge, chors, etc).

And why would Sony buy "12 Demo a cappellas"? If there even are such things.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^ I have thought the same thing, but we don't know how long these tracks were worked on or what kind of vocals there were to work with.

I am still baffled as to why they haven't released some sort of documentary clips on the process of making this album and some insight into how these vocals were mixed. That has been very disappointing. Most artists, nowadays, document the creation process and share it with fans.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Aniram said:
I am still baffled as to why they haven't released some sort of documentary clips on the process of making this album and some insight into how these vocals were mixed.
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I think it's pretty obvious as to why...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

That simply will not happen.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Aniram said:
I am still baffled as to why they haven't released some sort of documentary clips on the process of making this album and some insight into how these vocals were mixed. That has been very disappointing. Most artists, nowadays, document the creation process and share it with fans.
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They're not going to document it because it would only draw more attention to the already highly-suspiscious Cascio tracks.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^ Well, I hope it gets resolved soon, and isn't some legend that lives on like Paul McCartney being replaced or Tupac still being alive.

'Yeah, they hired some impersonator to record fake Michael Jackson tracks and used three of them on the album to sell records when Michael had been working on lots of material up to his death, they just wanted to confuse everybody!'

'Oh, yeah, and all of his loved ones betrayed him. No one really loves him except the fans that believe this cospiracy, the other fans are in on it with the man.'
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Aniram said:
^ Well, I hope it gets resolved soon, and isn't some legend that lives on like Paul McCartney being replaced or Tupac still being alive.

'Yeah, they hired some impersonator to record fake Michael Jackson tracks and used three of them on the album to sell records when Michael had been working on lots of material up to his death, they just wanted to confuse everybody!'
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Don't be so naive.

Why do you think they put a remix of The Way You Love Me on the album?

It's for the same reason they decided to use the Cascio tracks.... They want to still be releasing new Michael Jackson albums 20 years from now and so they are doing everything they can to spread out the material across as many albums as possible.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

A good point, and I never said I don't have doubts. You can read my posts and I have said it many times, I have had serious doubts over these tracks. But! I still enjoy them, I think they're good songs, and I'm still trying to use my own mind and keep it open to find out the truth about all this.

So I'll admit when you bring up a good point, and that is. I hear Michael on these songs, though.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Aniram said:
^ I have thought the same thing, but we don't know how long these tracks were worked on or what kind of vocals there were to work with.

I am still baffled as to why they haven't released some sort of documentary clips on the process of making this album and some insight into how these vocals were mixed. That has been very disappointing. Most artists, nowadays, document the creation process and share it with fans.
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I don't know about others. But, for me, the total lack of any trace of Michael's involvements in these Cascio tracks is very alarming.

I posted before that there is some kind of evidence of Michael's creative inputs (voicemail, handwritten notes, handwritten lyrics, note to the sound engineer, etc.) on every single song on the album, except the Cascio tracks.

So far, I don't see support that vouch Michael's involvement. Absolutely nothing!

I'm tired of being called illogical or labelled as a conspiracy theorist or insinuated as an uneducated person. These Cascio tracks do sound different. The vocals are much worse than the Michael Jackson vocals that we love so passionately. To make matter worse, the origins of the songs are mysterious.

Including the Cascio tracks is a huge mistake. It not only tainted the Michael album, but also changed the way we see all future Sony release.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Aniram said:
A good point, and I never said I don't have doubts. You can read my posts and I have said it many times, I have had serious doubts over these tracks. But! I still enjoy them, I think they're good songs, and I'm still trying to use my own mind and keep it open to find out the truth about all this.

So I'll admit when you bring up a good point, and that is. I hear Michael on these songs, though.
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Just a question, not trying to rile you up or anything....You have serious doubts about the tracks, yet you hear Michael on them? Just a little? A lot?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

MattyJam said:
They're not going to document it because it would only draw more attention to the already highly-suspiscious Cascio tracks.
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The question for me is, do they have documentary of the Cascio recording sessions to begin with? If they do, why didn't they show some of the clips on Oprah? Instead, they showed a picture of a poorly equiped studio.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

samhabib said:
Additional songwriters don't need to be credited? Is that what you're claiming?

It takes up to 16.5 months for the processing of a copyright claiming to be complete. The above looks like the processed claims. Hence the 2Bad registration date of 1996. Where as the Cascios FILED their claims on the 27th of June.

16.5 months from 27th of June leads us to, let's see, November 2010? Just in time for Breaking News to be leaked? Worked out beautifully...
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I'm not claiming anything about additional "songwriters". I wrote "producers and additional vocals do not need to be credited on copyright." I copied official copyright registrations of 2bad and this time around. It means either 1)Shaq and B.I.G didn't write their own raps 2) they registered their rap lyrics separately or 3) as they were "featured" artists they weren't needed to be added in the song registration.

What does length of processing has anything with the discussion? The date copyright office list is the date they received all the necessary documentation/files - not the end of processing date.

The difference is between "unreleased song" registration versus "released song" registration which means that probably sometime in the future we'll see updated copyright registrations for the songs on "Michael" album.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

love is magical said:
The question for me is, do they have documentary of the Cascio recording sessions to begin with? If they do, why didn't they show some of the clips on Oprah? Instead, they showed a picture of a poorly equiped studio.
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And, simply stated 'It is Michael'....They had an absolute perfect opportunity to prove their claims, and all we get is a 'It is Michael'....Really now?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

love is magical said:
Including the Cascio tracks is a huge mistake.
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I'm sure the estate don't think so.

What have they lost by including them? The album probably would've sold a similar amount even if they hadn't of included them.

And by putting three controversial songs and a remix of a previously released song on the album they have saved four genuine unreleased songs for future releases.

Accepting the Cascio songs as legitimate was win-win for the estate.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Aniram said:
A good point, and I never said I don't have doubts. You can read my posts and I have said it many times, I have had serious doubts over these tracks. But! I still enjoy them, I think they're good songs, and I'm still trying to use my own mind and keep it open to find out the truth about all this.

So I'll admit when you bring up a good point, and that is. I hear Michael on these songs, though.
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To be fair, the songs aren't bad songs comparing to what the music industry offers us these days. Say, if I turn on the radio and hear Stay, I would enjoy it as a casual pop song. But, it hurts when they blatantly lie to us in order to make a financial gain from the name Michael Jackson.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

@Arklove: Nope, not riled up. :D Haha! I appreciate all of your posts and have been enjoying the discussion. But I don't want to sound like I'm just saying the same thing over and over, so I try to back off if I feel I'm just going to say the same thing again.

Yes, I have some doubts in the tracks, and for quite a while thought they were probably Jason Malachi. I admit, the comparison videos have always been very good, but they are such little samples and don't sound identical, so I'm not convinced.

Some of the things that stand out, to me, in these Cascio songs, are the melodies, the way he sings them, the lyrics, and the attitude.

Someone had to come up with these songs, and I've never heard Jason Malachi come up with such good material, ever. None of his songs are good, and his best sound more like Usher/Justin Timberlake than Michael Jackson. So, if it's him, or anyone else, they are insanely talented at writing music, especially in such a short period of time.

Jason must have completely changed his style during the exact same time he was recording Critical. Does that sound very likely?

All I Need is obviously Michael Jackson. What a beautiful song.

Stay is brilliant, I am so glad we got to finally hear this song and I hope it comes out some day. I have never thought this way about a Jason Malachi song.

I love Breaking News, Monster, and Keep Your Head Up, and I don't like Jason Malachi's music, so he's done such an impressive job!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Aniram said:
@Arklove: Nope, not riled up. :D Haha! I appreciate all of your posts and have been enjoying the discussion. But I don't want to sound like I'm just saying the same thing over and over, so I try to back off if I feel I'm just going to say the same thing again.

Yes, I have some doubts in the tracks, and for quite a while thought they were probably Jason Malachi. I admit, the comparison videos have always been very good, but they are such little samples and don't sound identical, so I'm not convinced.

Some of the things that stand out, to me, in these Cascio songs, are the melodies, the way he sings them, the lyrics, and the attitude.

Someone had to come up with these songs, and I've never heard Jason Malachi come up with such good material, ever. None of his songs are good, and his best sound more like Usher/Justin Timberlake than Michael Jackson. So, if it's him, or anyone else, they are insanely talented at writing music, especially in such a short period of time.

Jason must have completely changed his style during the exact same time he was recording Critical. Does that sound very likely?

All I Need is obviously Michael Jackson. What a beautiful song.

Stay is brilliant, I am so glad we got to finally hear this song and I hope it comes out some day. I have never thought this way about a Jason Malachi song.

I love Breaking News, Monster, and Keep Your Head Up, and I don't like Jason Malachi's music, so he's done such an impressive job!
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You do realise that if Jason Malachi IS the singer on those songs then he probably had zero input to the writing and production side of things?? His job would've been simply to sound as close to Michael as he possibly could.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^ I understand that. So, what if Michael Jackson wrote them and Jason Malachi just filled in? I'm not saying that's what I think happened, but would the songs still make you want to vomit if you knew Michael had written them?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Aniram said:
^ I understand that. So, what if Michael Jackson wrote them and Jason Malachi just filled in? I'm not saying that's what I think happened, but would the songs still make you want to vomit if you knew Michael had written them?
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Yes.

The idea of somebody hiring a vocal impersonator to fill in the gaps on half-finished songs and then trying to pass it off as a complete piece of work is disgusting and a massive insult to Michael's legacy and to his fans.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

MattyJam said:
I'm sure the estate don't think so.

What have they lost by including them? The album probably would've sold a similar amount even if they hadn't of included them.

And by putting three controversial songs and a remix of a previously released song on the album they have saved four genuine unreleased songs for future releases.

Accepting the Cascio songs as legitimate was win-win for the estate.
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I agreed with you. The album actually performed well enough for Sony and the Estate. Selling 2 million copies worldwide with such lukewarm promotional effort is a testament of the strength of the Michael Jackson brand. This 10-song album is economical and makes total business sense. Sony tested the water and saw how the Cascio tracks are accepted. I'm sure more mediocre post-2009 productions will be included in future posthumous releases.

I mentioned in another thread that there is a disconnect between fans' expectation and the Estate's motive. To me, I'd prefer the Estate to safeguard Michael's legacy by putting artistic quality ahead of profitability. Yet, both Sony and the Estate put financial gains atop of their priority lists.

It puzzles me when I see some are blaming fans for the lack of promotion on this album. Isn't it apparent by now that it's exactly what Sony planned to do - maximize profits and minimize investments?
 
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