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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram said:
What a lovely contribution to the thread.

samhabib, those are all stretches. Streetwalker I'll accept(a b-side from the same exact session), but Someone Put Your Hand Out and Fall Again? No way in hell... But like I said, you prove my point that each era has a unique sound. You chose songs that sound similar from the same era. Ha!

edit: btw, if you were about to bring up how Dangerous is not from the same era as Cheater, I know it's reworked from Streetwalker. However, Cheater sounds absolutely NOTHING like Dangerous. What set of ears are you using?
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This just sums up the level of ridiculousness I'm having to deal with. "Cheater sounds absolutely NOTHING like Dangerous. What set of ears are you using?" - Anyone??? ANYONE???
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

They were both remixed for the Ultimate Collection, were they not?

Even still, I don't think they sound alike at all. :s

Dangerous, the girl is so dangerous.
Take away my money, throw away my time
You can call me honey, but you're no damn good for me!

versus

Somebody said give up instead on how you feel
One blow to the head is all you neeeeeeed
I AINT TAKING IT CHA
CHEATEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
OH NOO WOAH UHHHH
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

SPYHO is from the Dangerous sessions....Fall Again was to be used for Invincible...

They use the same beautiful falsetto...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Arklove said:
SPYHO is from the Dangerous sessions....Fall Again was to be used for Invincible...

They use the same beautiful falsetto...
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The same 'one in a million' falsetto.

Not only that, but Fall Again was recorded in one take (as, apparently, are the Cascio songs) and is the very definition of a 'demo' (as, apparently, are the Cascio songs) - with missing lyrics and all (unlike, apparently, the Cascio songs.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram said:
Dangerous, the girl is so dangerous.
Take away my money, throw away my time
You can call me honey, but you're no damn good for me!

versus

Somebody said give up instead on how you feel
One blow to the head is all you neeeeeeed
I AINT TAKING IT CHA
CHEATEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
OH NOO WOAH UHHHH
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And? They are comparable in every way...

Cheater is fucking genius...Just had to throw that in there..
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

ivy said:
yes with the support of legit additional vocals.

ps : I hope you do realize that my point isn't about what you and I think.
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But we are not debating about the supporting background vocals which are credited. We are talking about the lead vocals which many of us feel are not Michael or only Michael in parts which have only been credited to Michael Jackson. Do you at least accept the possibility that the lead vocals are not 100% Michael? (Sorry if you have already answered this).
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

To me, the falsetto in Best of Joy is the IDENTICAL to the one in SPYHO.

I don't disagree that each era is unique in its own way; that's why I love all of them. No matter how unique the sound was, Michael's vocal skills never diminished, instead his skills as a vocalist keep on improving, if it's even possible.

Like Invincble or not, Michael's vocals was impeccable. See how he could easily switch from ballads to r&b to rock to pop to dance. The falsettos were so effortlessly done. The base were so rich. The album was a showcase of his singing ability.

How am I going to believe that Michael Jackson in 2007 could not do the one-in-a-million falsetto and vibrato anymore?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

After additional listening sessions, I am now convinced that the lead vocals on KYHU and Monster are 100% fake (= 0% Michael Jackson). I also believe the "over processing" has been done on purpose to make it less obvious that it is not Michael Jackson.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

love is magical said:
To me, the falsetto in Best of Joy is the IDENTICAL to the one in SPYHO.

I don't disagree that each era is unique in its own way; that's why I love all of them. No matter how unique the sound was, Michael's vocal skills never diminished, instead his skills as a vocalist keep on improving, if it's even possible.

Like Invincble or not, Michael's vocals was impeccable. See how he could easily switch from ballads to r&b to rock to pop to dance. The falsettos were so effortlessly done. The base were so rich. The album was a showcase of his singing ability.

How am I going to believe that Michael Jackson in 2007 could not do the one-in-a-million falsetto and vibrato anymore?
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I also find that he's using a different style in some parts of Best of Joy...'When things would hurt-a yoo-ouuuu....'.....Yet, still unmistakably MJ...and using a different style on the Cascio songs? Bullshit..

And, I agree about Invincible....Not my favourite album, but the vocals are out of this world....
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

donalb said:
After additional listening sessions, I am now convinced that the lead vocals on KYHU and Monster are 100% fake (= 0% Michael Jackson). I also believe the "over processing" has been done on purpose to make it less obvious that it is not Michael Jackson.
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And then the copying and pasting???
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

ivy said:
ah bumper bumper - you are better reader than that..

did I ever mention how many people signed the petition? No.

I said that we see website's names but that doesn't mean all their members agree with such stand - in other words for example MJFrance name is listed and I said most probably NOT ALL members agree on the subject.

I gave an example which I said is a "screenshot of voting from one the websites listed" - again not all of the website or everyone signed the petition- which based on 76 votes and was divided. It wasn't to show how many people signed the petition - it was to show how many people on the websites listed gave an opinion on the subject.

Then I gave the example of our own poll in MJJC with 200+ votes that's divided - we have 10,000 active users (68,000 members). So would it be fair for us to say "MJJC supports this" with only 200+ votes out of possible 10,000?

In short what I said was "such polls or such petitions is not representative of the whole member base".

Edit : this was what I was referring to. 76 votes out of 33,000 members and it's divided to 60-40%.
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I agree with you that polls and and petitions are not necessarily representative of the entire member base. But the fact that groups of fans from various boards around the world believe these songs are fake is a SERIOUS problem for the Estate/Sony regardless of the actual %. This is one of the main reasons that Monster will never be released as a single in my opinion despite its potential for commercial success. I would also be surprised if they use any remaining Cascio songs in the future.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

donalb said:
I agree with you that polls and and petitions are not necessarily representative of the entire member base. But the fact that groups of fans from various boards around the world believe these songs are fake is a SERIOUS problem for the Estate/Sony regardless of the actual %. This is one of the main reasons that Monster will never be released as a single in my opinion despite its potential for commercial success. I would also be surprised if they use any remaining Cascio songs in the future.
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I actually would not be surprised if they use other Cascio tracks in the future. They tested the water this time. Their strategy worked for them. The general music buying public didn't mind or couldn't tell the vocal difference. The album sold well. Actually, Michael was one of Sony's best selling albums in 2010.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

love is magical said:
I actually would not be surprised if they use other Cascio tracks in the future. They tested the water this time. Their strategy worked for them. The general music buying public didn't mind or couldn't tell the vocal difference. The album sold well. Actually, Michael was one of Sony's best selling albums in 2010.
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I agree...I think they'll dare to use them....After all, they've been doing everything the exact opposite of what the fans want...Why stop now?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Arklove said:
I agree...I think they'll dare to use them....After all, they've been doing everything the exact opposite of what the fans want...Why stop now?
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Exactly. We, the obsessive fans, are the group that Sony care the least because they know we can't resist anything with the name Michael Jackson on.

Looking back my purchase history:

I bought Number Ones eventhough I own all Michael Jackson albums.

I bought King of Pop eventhough I own all Michael Jackson albums and Number Ones.

I bought This Is It eventhough I own all Michael Jackson albums and Number Ones and King of Pop.

I bought Vision eventhough I own the Dangerous on Films, HIStory I and II and countless unofficial downloads.

I even downloaded songs I own in CD format and videos I own in DVD format from iTune. Don't know why but I paid for the downloads anyway.

I know for sure I'll add OTW re-re-issue and BAD 25 to my collection. Sometimes, I wonder if Sony put a blank disc with Michael Jackson's name on, I'll buy it anyway. I just can't help it.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

mjjesamor said:
Hi Aniram.
Here is a little reminder of how Jason's vibrato sounds just singing in his living room....
Isn't it a mad coincidence that Jason's natural vibrato here sounds exactly the same as the one you describe in 'monster' as as really messed up and almost inhumanly shaky sometimes? ... It's incredible how here Jason sings exactly like the voice on 'fakin news'. Amazing, i mean what are the chances statistically that this is a total coincidence?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=006P1H73GnQ
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You do hear how fast that vibrato is right, and how quickly it ends from when he starts? Now compare that to the vibrato on KYHU, where it continues a bit longer than Malachi's own natural falsetto does. Digital or not, there's a difference in duration of the vibrato.


Pentum said:
"For the most part I hear Michael on these songs."

So when Aniram hears the vibrato, it's suddently not MJ anymore? She just said "for the most part". So yes, she said some parts isn't MJ to her. And why do you reply for others? I'm sure Aniram would be able to give a fair reply.
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Lol Wtf? So it's okay to answer on another person's behalf when the answer doesn't contradict or dispute your statement, but when it does, it's wrong? Anywho, I replied because I thought it'd be nice to make clear what was stated in the post, the person didn't say "I hear Michael here, then I don't hear him here", they said "for the most part I hear Michael on these songs, but the vibrato is off". They then went on to explain why they feel the vibrato is off, which many people had already stated long ago as the reason that it sounds the way it does.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

They'll release more of these bullshit songs because there is someone involved who is intent on sabotaging Michael Jackson's legacy. That's the only way this horror show can be explained.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

samhabib said:
They'll release more of these bullshit songs because there is someone involved who is intent on sabotaging Michael Jackson's legacy. That's the only way this horror show can be explained.
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Oh we all have our thoughts on this, i dunno wanna post them though, as they'd be way too controversial.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

They paid for the songs....At least one of them is bound to be released as a single eventually..What an embarrassment to Michael....:(....The thought of that just.....:puke:

Mike, I miss you so much :(
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

How can anyone explain what has happened if it ISN'T an attempt to sabotage his legacy??? John Branca comes back into Michael Jackson's life. Days later Michael Jackson dies. John Branca takes the reins of Michael's Estate, years after Michael famously sacked him and asked him to NEVER represent him in any capacity ever again before having his activities investigated. Two days after Michael's death, songs are registered in his name that we now know sound nothing like ANY previous Michael Jackson songs that we've ever heard.

The VISIONS DVD set is released complete with square boxes around most of the videos - even though Michael hired, out of his own pocket, film directors to record the films on 35mm tape. With no Dolby sound options - even though Michael paid for that expense from his own pocket. I mean... why do the videos have black boxes on the iPhone?!?! Anyone want to test this? Log onto iTunes with your phone. Go to videos. Preview the Thriller video from the VISIONS collection... Why is there a black box all around the video?!?

You can't make a mistake like that. That HAS to be deliberate.

You then see what happened with the Breaking News leak - previewing the first few seconds without vocals. And then we hear the song and it sounds like no other Michael Jackson that we've ever heard.

Then Teddy Riley's public breakdown. The Cascio's no-show of evidence on Oprah. Friedman's desperation to prove the vocals are legit. Etc, etc.

Those ain't mistakes. That's a deliberate and willful act of sabotage. Major companies don't **** up to that degree unless they're doing it on purpose!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

samhabib said:
How can anyone explain what has happened if it ISN'T an attempt to sabotage his legacy??? John Branca comes back into Michael Jackson's life. Days later Michael Jackson dies. John Branca takes the reins of Michael's Estate, years after Michael famously sacked him and asked him to NEVER represent him in any capacity ever again before having his activities investigated. Two days after Michael's death, songs are registered in his name that we now know sound nothing like ANY previous Michael Jackson songs that we've ever heard.

The VISIONS DVD set is released complete with square boxes around most of the videos - even though Michael hired, out of his own pocket, film directors to record the films on 35mm tape. With no Dolby sound options - even though Michael paid for that expense from his own pocket. I mean... why do the videos have black boxes on the iPhone?!?! Anyone want to test this? Log onto iTunes with your phone. Go to videos. Preview the Thriller video from the VISIONS collection... Why is there a black box all around the video?!?

You can't make a mistake like that. That HAS to be deliberate.

You then see what happened with the Breaking News leak - previewing the first few seconds without vocals. And then we hear the song and it sounds like no other Michael Jackson that we've ever heard.

Then Teddy Riley's public breakdown. The Cascio's no-show of evidence on Oprah. Friedman's desperation to prove the vocals are legit. Etc, etc.

Those ain't mistakes. That's a deliberate and willful act of sabotage. Major companies don't **** up to that degree unless they're doing it on purpose!
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It's just attrocious really, appauling, he deserves so much more, i'm still waiting for the light at the end of the tunnel, but it seems this is gonna go on for ever, does MJ every get any justice.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^ That's your most reasonable post all day, samhabib. :)

By the way, Cheater and Dangerous ARE comparable in their genius and greatness, but I DO think that they have a completely different feel to them musically.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram said:
^ That's your most reasonable post all day, samhabib. :)

By the way, Cheater and Dangerous ARE comparable in their genius and greatness, but I DO think that they have a completely different feel to them musically.
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Give up. You're not going to match me for wits, I can assure you.

I couldn't give a monkeys about the songs 'musically'. I referenced them as being 'vocally' identical. Which they clearly are.

Now go and find the one song that sounds like All I Need.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

No, you said it was a bullshit song, and what song has he ever written like that 'bullshit song'.

Cheater and Dangerous barely compare vocally(Cheater he basically shouts the entire song, Dangerous is quieter, sang softer.. sure he sings passionately, but not as angry as Cheater). By your standards Dangerous and Slave To The Rhythm are similar then, too, just because you believe Michael Jackson is singing in them?

I'm not going to give up. Why don't you give up? :D :p
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

samhabib said:
How can anyone explain what has happened if it ISN'T an attempt to sabotage his legacy??? John Branca comes back into Michael Jackson's life. Days later Michael Jackson dies. John Branca takes the reins of Michael's Estate, years after Michael famously sacked him and asked him to NEVER represent him in any capacity ever again before having his activities investigated. Two days after Michael's death, songs are registered in his name that we now know sound nothing like ANY previous Michael Jackson songs that we've ever heard.

The VISIONS DVD set is released complete with square boxes around most of the videos - even though Michael hired, out of his own pocket, film directors to record the films on 35mm tape. With no Dolby sound options - even though Michael paid for that expense from his own pocket. I mean... why do the videos have black boxes on the iPhone?!?! Anyone want to test this? Log onto iTunes with your phone. Go to videos. Preview the Thriller video from the VISIONS collection... Why is there a black box all around the video?!?

You can't make a mistake like that. That HAS to be deliberate.

You then see what happened with the Breaking News leak - previewing the first few seconds without vocals. And then we hear the song and it sounds like no other Michael Jackson that we've ever heard.

Then Teddy Riley's public breakdown. The Cascio's no-show of evidence on Oprah. Friedman's desperation to prove the vocals are legit. Etc, etc.

Those ain't mistakes. That's a deliberate and willful act of sabotage. Major companies don't **** up to that degree unless they're doing it on purpose!
Click to expand...

great post, i agree with most of them
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

samhabib said:
How can anyone explain what has happened if it ISN'T an attempt to sabotage his legacy??? John Branca comes back into Michael Jackson's life. Days later Michael Jackson dies. John Branca takes the reins of Michael's Estate, years after Michael famously sacked him and asked him to NEVER represent him in any capacity ever again before having his activities investigated. Two days after Michael's death, songs are registered in his name that we now know sound nothing like ANY previous Michael Jackson songs that we've ever heard.

The VISIONS DVD set is released complete with square boxes around most of the videos - even though Michael hired, out of his own pocket, film directors to record the films on 35mm tape. With no Dolby sound options - even though Michael paid for that expense from his own pocket. I mean... why do the videos have black boxes on the iPhone?!?! Anyone want to test this? Log onto iTunes with your phone. Go to videos. Preview the Thriller video from the VISIONS collection... Why is there a black box all around the video?!?

You can't make a mistake like that. That HAS to be deliberate.

You then see what happened with the Breaking News leak - previewing the first few seconds without vocals. And then we hear the song and it sounds like no other Michael Jackson that we've ever heard.

Then Teddy Riley's public breakdown. The Cascio's no-show of evidence on Oprah. Friedman's desperation to prove the vocals are legit. Etc, etc.

Those ain't mistakes. That's a deliberate and willful act of sabotage. Major companies don't **** up to that degree unless they're doing it on purpose!
Click to expand...

Rightttt, so Sony just dropped $250 mill for nothing, they want to throw away that money.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

samhabib said:
How can anyone explain what has happened if it ISN'T an attempt to sabotage his legacy??? John Branca comes back into Michael Jackson's life. Days later Michael Jackson dies. John Branca takes the reins of Michael's Estate, years after Michael famously sacked him and asked him to NEVER represent him in any capacity ever again before having his activities investigated. Two days after Michael's death, songs are registered in his name that we now know sound nothing like ANY previous Michael Jackson songs that we've ever heard.

The VISIONS DVD set is released complete with square boxes around most of the videos - even though Michael hired, out of his own pocket, film directors to record the films on 35mm tape. With no Dolby sound options - even though Michael paid for that expense from his own pocket. I mean... why do the videos have black boxes on the iPhone?!?! Anyone want to test this? Log onto iTunes with your phone. Go to videos. Preview the Thriller video from the VISIONS collection... Why is there a black box all around the video?!?

You can't make a mistake like that. That HAS to be deliberate.

You then see what happened with the Breaking News leak - previewing the first few seconds without vocals. And then we hear the song and it sounds like no other Michael Jackson that we've ever heard.

Then Teddy Riley's public breakdown. The Cascio's no-show of evidence on Oprah. Friedman's desperation to prove the vocals are legit. Etc, etc.

Those ain't mistakes. That's a deliberate and willful act of sabotage. Major companies don't **** up to that degree unless they're doing it on purpose!
Click to expand...

Fantastic post....:clapping:

This post should be used as a point of reference..
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

samhabib, just stop taking yourself so seriously, please. You don't need to talk down to others who are simply asking questions or stating their opinion.

I have tried to analyze both sides of this situation. I have spent hours and hours and hours putting my full attention on this. I have listened to the album in every format I possibly can. It's driven me a little mad. I do have doubts. I have said it repeatedly.

You should try to respond to these people with the utmost politeness. These are fellow Michael Jackson fans you're talking to, remember that!

I'm still on the fence about the authenticity of these vocals. I am really hoping the truth comes out soon. I don't know why it's so hard to get more interviews or to contact more people about this subject.

To keep things from going around and around in circles, I try to ask a question that could keep the debate going, but you just get insulted in this thread if you don't just nod and agree with samhabib and friends.
 
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