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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Alright, I'll jump on the bandwagon. Of course some of the things I'll comment on will have already been disputed but regardless, time to put in my two cents.

steveworek said:
Now that I have access to this thread, I want to chime in here... A good friend of mine has had a personal connection with Michael most of his life, and even worked with Michael from time to time. He knew everything going on with the "Michael" album, and we've talked about it in detail.

* Despite people calling the Cascios "liars", etc, for supposedly creating false Michael tracks, the fact is that the Cascios were genuine and trustworthy friends of Michael, with no reason at all to do such a thing.
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Please ask this friend to join MJJC. I'd love to have a Q&A session with him + other members. Regardless, THIS is what shocks me the most. Eddie has known Michael for some twenty five years. Why he would dare to betray his "second father," as a quote from him read, baffles me.

* One MAJOR fact that people overlook is that the tracks were recorded in 2007 - when Michael was still alive. And living with the Cascios. The family creating a false album's worth of Malachi-voiced tracks would not happen with Michael under their roof.
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Proof? There are literally no witnesses that can stand by the claim that the songs were recorded during Michael's stay in mid/late 2007. Not even the family could support the claims -- only Frank has spoken publicly about it, and I believe he said that he wasn't at home during most of Michael's visit.

* While Michael did know that Jason Malachi existed and appreciated his talent, there was little to no connection between the two of them. Incidentally, at one point, after being sent demos by Jason, Michael put together a mix CD combining these demos with his own rarities to see if his friends could tell the difference between himself and Jason. (This CD leaked online as.... you guessed it... "7EVEN".)
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This isn't what happened. Yes, Michael was aware of Jason and enjoyed hearing his imitations of him, but 7even was compiled by fans mixing Michael's previously leaked Invincible outtakes with imposter recordings. (Not all were Malachi -- one song I believe was titled Get Out of My Head and was sung by an anonymous vocalist.) It is an interesting idea though, which I would be inclined to believe if I didn't know what I do.

* Fans who insist that Michael sounds too 'different' on those songs never take into account that the man was in horrible health at this point, often sounding strained and weak. The warmth and timbre of Michael's voice is still there, the strength is not. In addition, his health and drug addictions contributed to tooth loss - assumedly his front teeth, given the odd sounds evident in his voice. For example, 'Breaking News': 'Reportersh shtalking the movesh of Michael Jackshon."

* Speaking of 'Breaking News', that song was sung in Michael's lower register that significantly altered the sound of his voice, as previously heard on "2000 Watts" - a track that many fans claim has a digitally altered Michael voice. (It doesn't.)
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Hold My Hand, a song which you will later call "the most recognizably Michael song" on the album, was recorded in late November 2007, roughly one to three weeks after Michael had left the Cascio house. One would be inclined to believe that health symptoms relating to drug problems wouldn't be present for three months and then suddenly disappear.

Additionally, there are literally dozens of songs sung in Michael's lower register. Best of Joy and Hold My Hand are both within that range, if not slightly higher. Why don't either of those sound off as well?

* While Paris Jackson did insist that Jason was singing on the album, the song she named in particular wasn't even one of the three - "Hold My Hand." The most recognizably Michael song on the disc.
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Paris never once stated that she thought Hold My Hand was fake -- this was a lie made up by TMZ. Matter of fact, she later stated on her Twitter account that she knew Hold My Hand was real, but pointed at the Cascio tracks as fake.

* Likewise, Teddy Riley has proven to be immensely untrustworthy in the past, even claiming that Michael is alive.
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A common misconception. Teddy Riley never once stated that he firmly believed Michael was alive. Rather, he stated that he would like to believe that he was, relaxing on an isolated island somewhere, enjoying life for the first time in... forever!

* Some people have chosen to use "This Is It" as proof that Michael's voice still sounded as it used to - when the truth is that a vast majority of "This Is It" was either footage from previous tours or utilized old, pre-recorded vocals. Yes, folks, that movie is most likely a fabrication. A fantasy.
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In This Is It, Wanna Be Startin' Somethin', Human Nature, the intro to The Way You Make Me Feel, the Jackson 5 Medley, I Just Can't Stop Loving You, Beat It and Black or White are all performed with live vocals from the rehearsals, not overdubbed at all. And again, every single performance sounds like him.

* A biggie - while some comparisons have been made, the hard fact is that the voice on "Michael" just does not sound like Jason Malachi. Jason's voice resembles Michael with a sore throat - it is very rough and sometimes hoarse while Michael's is completely smooth no matter how forceful he sings. That smoothness is clear on all three "Michael" tracks; compare those to Jason's "Let Me Let Go", where his voice resembles sandpaper. Yes, they sound similar *at times* - the most noticeable being when Michael sings "DON'T YOU LIKE IT!" on 'Monster' - but the voice still is not a match for Jason's.
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As much as I hate to admit it, I don't hate Jason's music. It's nowhere near quality, but it's not terrible by any means. And he can pull off a soft voice if necessary -- go listen to Bigger Man or Where Has Freedom Gone.

Do I think that people will ever believe that these are Michael? Not at all. I also find it incredibly disrespectful to the man who worked diligently in a time when health and money were failing him to not get the least amount of credit for his work, the full credit instead going to another singer who has vehemently denied any involvement in the tracks, and is telling the truth.
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Fun fact: Jason was asked if he was involved with the songs back in December 2010, and he said that he "couldn't comment". If he wasn't involved, he would straight out say no. To my knowledge, Jason himself hasn't said anything further about his involvement. He only spoke through his lawyer. Additionally, what does money have to do with getting work done? Michael was staying there for free as far as I'm aware, and it doesn't cost any money for Michael to sit at the piano and plunk out a new song.

One final note, though - there is a supposed Cascio track floating around called "Burn Tonight." While it's possible that Michael did write a song with this title, the track online IS Jason Malachi, 100%. I'm almost certain this song has nothing to do with the Cascios in the least, and was merely mislabeled at some point (just as "Mamacita" and "Let Me Let Go" were mislabeled as MJ tracks). Unlike the actual Cascio recordings, "Burn Tonight" has all the recognizable elements of a Malachi track - cheesy synthesized instrumentation, Jason's rough voice, and very simplistic songwriting. Having heard the rest of the Cascio material, I can confirm with absolute certainty that this track bares absolutely no resemblance to anything in that group, the voice of the singer being a major factor. Just another mistaken Jason track with no MJ connection at all. (I wouldn't doubt, though, that Jason may have consciously written a song with a Michael title, given he already sang a track called "Don't Walk Away.")
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The version of Burn Tonight that has leaked, the reproduced version by Teddy Riley, is the Cascio track, that much I can promise. And if you listen, the voice on Burn Tonight is the exact same voice on any other Cascio track.
 
steveworek said:
Now that I have access to this thread, I want to chime in here... A good friend of mine has had a personal connection with Michael most of his life, and even worked with Michael from time to time. He knew everything going on with the "Michael" album, and we've talked about it in detail.

The plain and simple fact is, Michael DID, without any shadow of a doubt, sing those three tracks. Here are the facts, as I have been given them:

* Despite people calling the Cascios "liars", etc, for supposedly creating false Michael tracks, the fact is that the Cascios were genuine and trustworthy friends of Michael, with no reason at all to do such a thing.
* One MAJOR fact that people overlook is that the tracks were recorded in 2007 - when Michael was still alive. And living with the Cascios. The family creating a false album's worth of Malachi-voiced tracks would not happen with Michael under their roof.

* While Michael did know that Jason Malachi existed and appreciated his talent, there was little to no connection between the two of them. Incidentally, at one point, after being sent demos by Jason, Michael put together a mix CD combining these demos with his own rarities to see if his friends could tell the difference between himself and Jason. (This CD leaked online as.... you guessed it... "7EVEN".)

* Fans who insist that Michael sounds too 'different' on those songs never take into account that the man was in horrible health at this point, often sounding strained and weak. The warmth and timbre of Michael's voice is still there, the strength is not. In addition, his health and drug addictions contributed to tooth loss - assumedly his front teeth, given the odd sounds evident in his voice. For example, 'Breaking News': 'Reportersh shtalking the movesh of Michael Jackshon."

* Speaking of 'Breaking News', that song was sung in Michael's lower register that significantly altered the sound of his voice, as previously heard on "2000 Watts" - a track that many fans claim has a digitally altered Michael voice. (It doesn't.)

* The sheer amount of people that would have to keep such a massive secret as a soundalike being used for a MJ track, even entire choirs of people, defies all logic.

* Also defying logic is that Sony would willingly release material that would have the slightest chance of not being Michael Jackson, for fear for a class-action lawsuit over fraudulence. Milli Vanilli would happen all over again.

* While Paris Jackson did insist that Jason was singing on the album, the song she named in particular wasn't even one of the three - "Hold My Hand." The most recognizably Michael song on the disc.

* Likewise, Teddy Riley has proven to be immensely untrustworthy in the past, even claiming that Michael is alive.

* Some people have chosen to use "This Is It" as proof that Michael's voice still sounded as it used to - when the truth is that a vast majority of "This Is It" was either footage from previous tours or utilized old, pre-recorded vocals. Yes, folks, that movie is most likely a fabrication. A fantasy.

* A biggie - while some comparisons have been made, the hard fact is that the voice on "Michael" just does not sound like Jason Malachi. Jason's voice resembles Michael with a sore throat - it is very rough and sometimes hoarse while Michael's is completely smooth no matter how forceful he sings. That smoothness is clear on all three "Michael" tracks; compare those to Jason's "Let Me Let Go", where his voice resembles sandpaper. Yes, they sound similar *at times* - the most noticeable being when Michael sings "DON'T YOU LIKE IT!" on 'Monster' - but the voice still is not a match for Jason's.

Do I think that people will ever believe that these are Michael? Not at all. I also find it incredibly disrespectful to the man who worked diligently in a time when health and money were failing him to not get the least amount of credit for his work, the full credit instead going to another singer who has vehemently denied any involvement in the tracks, and is telling the truth.

One final note, though - there is a supposed Cascio track floating around called "Burn Tonight." While it's possible that Michael did write a song with this title, the track online IS Jason Malachi, 100%. I'm almost certain this song has nothing to do with the Cascios in the least, and was merely mislabeled at some point (just as "Mamacita" and "Let Me Let Go" were mislabeled as MJ tracks). Unlike the actual Cascio recordings, "Burn Tonight" has all the recognizable elements of a Malachi track - cheesy synthesized instrumentation, Jason's rough voice, and very simplistic songwriting. Having heard the rest of the Cascio material, I can confirm with absolute certainty that this track bares absolutely no resemblance to anything in that group, the voice of the singer being a major factor. Just another mistaken Jason track with no MJ connection at all. (I wouldn't doubt, though, that Jason may have consciously written a song with a Michael title, given he already sang a track called "Don't Walk Away.")
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Dude, You should really be banned for the disrespectful things you're insinuating. You have no friend who was "really close" and shared a "personal connection" with Michael. And how could a "fan" insinuate that Michael was such a drug addict and this and that, that he lost his teeth? And there's only a handful of drugs out there that do that to people, so without actually saying it, you're implying Michael was addicted to hard stuff aside of what's been mentioned in court proceedings. I won't even get into that, but it's funny how the coroner's report never announced any of your "findings". This post would really be comedy if such nasty things weren't being insinuated here.

Everyone else has pointed out the flat out lies in your post. I just can't help but laugh at them, like Michael created "7". Michael had nothing to do with "7", which was fan-made from top to bottom. Another thing, we know Michael wasn't in perfect condition for This Is It rehearsals, yet, every song he managed to sing live sounded like himself, not like Jason Malachi, unlike these "three" Cascio songs, which you swear he sung. Question, have you heard the rest of the songs? Or are you basing this stuff off of the three songs that you may have heard? We've also seen him go through a whole concert performance under the weather, yet still managed to sound like himself and have enough "strength" in a song like "WBSS". Funny how all throughout his life, Michael sounded like himself, regardless of the situation, but all of a sudden, while living with the Cascio's, he began to sound like someone totally other than himself? I can't, I just can't.....
 
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I wrote that review BEFORE I became friends with someone who worked on the album, and had proof put right in front of my face that Michael sang the tracks. Have your thoughts of anything changed after a two year period, after you realized how wrong you were?

And yes.... whether anyone chooses to believe it or not, Michael created "7EVEN". He did not call it that, nor did he EVER intend for it to reach the public. People seem to forget that Michael was a human being, who did things for fun outside of performing. As I said, he put that disc together for friends to see if they could tell his voice from Jason's. It's as simple as that, it's not even worth debating. Michael burned a mix CD, who cares? Why argue about that?

I will say, as well, that my connection to the Michael camp is aware of this thread - particularly the immediate accusations that I'm lying about Michael being ill, losing teeth, etcetera. It is not my place to spread details, but Michael's health issues were FAR worse than his fans choose to believe.

Note I said "choose to believe". I've seen far too much of the "Michael was in perfect health, then he was murdered!" variety on fan sites, and it's horrible. I loved the man too, and have for my entire life, but why would you deny that the man was ill when everyone knew he was??

That's like arguing that he didn't wear a wig. He wore a wig. Why debate that? It doesn't lessen the man at all.
 
steveworek said:
I wrote that review BEFORE I became friends with someone who worked on the album, and had proof put right in front of my face that Michael sang the tracks. Have your thoughts of anything changed after a two year period, after you realized how wrong you were?

And yes.... whether anyone chooses to believe it or not, Michael created "7EVEN". He did not call it that, nor did he EVER intend for it to reach the public. People seem to forget that Michael was a human being, who did things for fun outside of performing. As I said, he put that disc together for friends to see if they could tell his voice from Jason's. It's as simple as that, it's not even worth debating. Michael burned a mix CD, who cares? Why argue about that?

I will say, as well, that my connection to the Michael camp is aware of this thread - particularly the immediate accusations that I'm lying about Michael being ill, losing teeth, etcetera. It is not my place to spread details, but Michael's health issues were FAR worse than his fans choose to believe.

Note I said "choose to believe". I've seen far too much of the "Michael was in perfect health, then he was murdered!" variety on fan sites, and it's horrible. I loved the man too, and have for my entire life, but why would you deny that the man was ill when everyone knew he was??

That's like arguing that he didn't wear a wig. He wore a wig. Why debate that? It doesn't lessen the man at all.
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Your lies are so stupid and unbelievable that discredit everything else you say. And again you should be banned for saying such gruesome stuff without any evidence.

If your friend really exists (which I doubt) then he is lying to you.
 
steveworek said:
I wrote that review BEFORE I became friends with someone who worked on the album, and had proof put right in front of my face that Michael sang the tracks. Have your thoughts of anything changed after a two year period, after you realized how wrong you were?

And yes.... whether anyone chooses to believe it or not, Michael created "7EVEN". He did not call it that, nor did he EVER intend for it to reach the public. People seem to forget that Michael was a human being, who did things for fun outside of performing. As I said, he put that disc together for friends to see if they could tell his voice from Jason's. It's as simple as that, it's not even worth debating. Michael burned a mix CD, who cares? Why argue about that?

I will say, as well, that my connection to the Michael camp is aware of this thread - particularly the immediate accusations that I'm lying about Michael being ill, losing teeth, etcetera. It is not my place to spread details, but Michael's health issues were FAR worse than his fans choose to believe.

Note I said "choose to believe". I've seen far too much of the "Michael was in perfect health, then he was murdered!" variety on fan sites, and it's horrible. I loved the man too, and have for my entire life, but why would you deny that the man was ill when everyone knew he was??

That's like arguing that he didn't wear a wig. He wore a wig. Why debate that? It doesn't lessen the man at all.
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Ok..what? If you don't mind..since when did you know everything about Michael's health? Not that it has anything to do with this..moving on, all I gotta say is this: Your so called 'friend' is lying to you, and Michael didn't create 7Even as you keep claiming. For someone who says he 'loves' Michael, what you're doing is saying otherwise. Never thought I'd see a fan say something like this. Very disrespectful if ya ask me.
 
steveworek said:
I wrote that review BEFORE I became friends with someone who worked on the album, and had proof put right in front of my face that Michael sang the tracks. Have your thoughts of anything changed after a two year period, after you realized how wrong you were?

And yes.... whether anyone chooses to believe it or not, Michael created "7EVEN". He did not call it that, nor did he EVER intend for it to reach the public. People seem to forget that Michael was a human being, who did things for fun outside of performing. As I said, he put that disc together for friends to see if they could tell his voice from Jason's. It's as simple as that, it's not even worth debating. Michael burned a mix CD, who cares? Why argue about that?

I will say, as well, that my connection to the Michael camp is aware of this thread - particularly the immediate accusations that I'm lying about Michael being ill, losing teeth, etcetera. It is not my place to spread details, but Michael's health issues were FAR worse than his fans choose to believe.

Note I said "choose to believe". I've seen far too much of the "Michael was in perfect health, then he was murdered!" variety on fan sites, and it's horrible. I loved the man too, and have for my entire life, but why would you deny that the man was ill when everyone knew he was??

That's like arguing that he didn't wear a wig. He wore a wig. Why debate that? It doesn't lessen the man at all.
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Complete and utter nonsense.
 
OnirMJ said:
Same song. Weird that he didn't credited Cascios.
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That is because it's Teddy's production, not Eddie's one.

The same thing happened between Pitbull's song "Everybody F*cks" (featuring Akon) and Inna's "More Than Friends". Same producer, used same instrumental.
 
Does it not say a lot that this random K-POP song sounds better than Monster and it's not even very good?
 
It's like 1000x better than Monster :p

If the instruments were different it wouldn't sound like Monster

Let's see what else Teddy has done in KPOP...


Thank me later :p
 
Hello. I forgot to mention who I am. I am deadcarpet, also known as Okikage, Kaien Ragan, and Libra.

Could the Cascio songs be someone other than MJ and Jason? Could it be someone you wouldn't expect? These songs are by someone called ICONIC9. I posted these to my Soundcloud account along with other tracks.
Marchin' Through The Clouds: https://soundcloud.com/kaien-ragan/rumored-song-marchin-through-the-clouds
Heroes: https://soundcloud.com/kaien-ragan/rumored-song-heroes
Gone Too Soon Live: https://soundcloud.com/kaien-ragan/rumored-cascio-vocalist-gone-too-soon-live
You Are Not Alone Live: https://soundcloud.com/kaien-ragan/rumored-cascio-vocalist-you-are-not-alone-live

Here is a mashup I made with some of his "best" vocals.
https://soundcloud.com/kaien-ragan/the-real-cascio-vocalist

Could the Cascio singer be Tyler Carter? Here is a snippet of his song Make It Snow.
https://soundcloud.com/kaien-ragan/tyler-carter-make-it-snow-snippet

Please, I want to know your thoughts on these.
 
Very Strange. Apparently my voice is the same voice as on the Cascio songs. LOL They put a copyright claim on one of my videos of me doing a acapella of my vibrato. Dafuq Cascios?

1619501_636349143079269_1291474537_n.jpg


Here are some of my vocals. Notice the similarities to the Cascio singer.
https://soundcloud.com/kaien-ragan/kaien-recording-vibrato-the-cascio-malachi-way
https://soundcloud.com/kaien-ragan/kaien-ragans-edited-vibrato
https://soundcloud.com/kaien-ragan/kaien-ragan-trying-to-sing-ready-2-win
https://soundcloud.com/kaien-ragan/oh-my-friend
https://soundcloud.com/kaien-ragan/kr-jmmj-win-comparison
https://soundcloud.com/kaien-ragan/all-i-need-vocal-practice-1
https://soundcloud.com/kaien-ragan/black-widow-vocal-practice-1
https://soundcloud.com/kaien-ragan/water-vocal-practice-1

Could I potentially be the Cascio singer then?
Note: I am not the Cascio singer.
 
In the You Are Not Alone Live, he sings "Say it again." very similarly to the one in Ready 2 Win.
 
steveworek said:
I wrote that review BEFORE I became friends with someone who worked on the album, and had proof put right in front of my face that Michael sang the tracks. Have your thoughts of anything changed after a two year period, after you realized how wrong you were?

And yes.... whether anyone chooses to believe it or not, Michael created "7EVEN". He did not call it that, nor did he EVER intend for it to reach the public. People seem to forget that Michael was a human being, who did things for fun outside of performing. As I said, he put that disc together for friends to see if they could tell his voice from Jason's. It's as simple as that, it's not even worth debating. Michael burned a mix CD, who cares? Why argue about that?

I will say, as well, that my connection to the Michael camp is aware of this thread - particularly the immediate accusations that I'm lying about Michael being ill, losing teeth, etcetera. It is not my place to spread details, but Michael's health issues were FAR worse than his fans choose to believe.

Note I said "choose to believe". I've seen far too much of the "Michael was in perfect health, then he was murdered!" variety on fan sites, and it's horrible. I loved the man too, and have for my entire life, but why would you deny that the man was ill when everyone knew he was??

That's like arguing that he didn't wear a wig. He wore a wig. Why debate that? It doesn't lessen the man at all.
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You are... delusional. You have given no evidence for anything you've said. Good that we banned this guy.
 
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