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Michael Prince & Brad Buxer - Secret Project (Confirmed MJ related - Post #155)

Blue Gangsta is not my favourite, but it is a great song. I prefer Break of Dawn and A Place With No Name snippet. But in my opinion both are better songs than Privacy and Cry for example.
 
OnirMJ said:
Teddy worked on Hollywood Tonight, Breaking News, Monster & Burn Tonight. He didn't work on Blue Gangsta. That is Dr. Freeze song. I believe the leaked version is un-edited original version from Invincible sessions.
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He was given Blue Gangsta to work on although I'm not sure how much progress was done on it. Dr. Freeze didn't work on this album. There is an interview where Teddy even admits that he has Blue Gangsta on his computer - why else would he have it? He did Hollywood Tonight which was originally done by Brad Buxer and three Cascio tracks, which were originally done by Eddie Cascio. Why couldn't he have done Blue Gangsta?
 
AlwaysThere said:
He was given Blue Gangsta to work on although I'm not sure how much progress was done on it. Dr. Freeze didn't work on this album. There is an interview where Teddy even admits that he has Blue Gangsta on his computer - why else would he have it? He did Hollywood Tonight which was originally done by Brad Buxer and three Cascio tracks, which were originally done by Eddie Cascio. Why couldn't he have done Blue Gangsta?
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Yeah, I watched that interview with him. We all have Blue Gangsta on our computers, I think he also mentioned DYKWYCA in that interview but that doesn't mean he worked on the song.

Hollywood Tonight was originally produced by Neff-U for MICHAEL album, but Sony executives weren't satisfied with his mixes, so they gave those Neff-U mixes to Teddy Riley to finish them. He worked on the Cascio tracks, because Eddie is not world class producer and he couldn't produce what they wanted because he has no knowledge. Also he sold those songs to them and went home. It is wierd that he didn't want to assist them or just be there with Teddy to give him instructions what MJ wanted. Another wierd fact about Cascio songs.

Blue Gangsta is Dr. Freeze song and I doubt he would let anybody touching or finishing his song. There was an interview in which he said that he'll be working on his 2 songs for next MJ project.
 
OnirMJ said:
Yeah, I watched that interview with him. We all have Blue Gangsta on our computers, I think he also mentioned DYKWYCA in that interview but that doesn't mean he worked on the song.
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But we're the fan community, and Blue Gangsta leaked online. Teddy Riley is a producer hired by the Estate. If he downloaded the illegal leak of Blue Gangsta and openly admitted it, he's would be in deep legal issues. And the version of DYKWYCA that leaked in November of 2010 is a reworked version featuring new guitar performances by Steve Lukather. Considering we don't know who the producer is, if Teddy really spoke about it, maybe he's the producer? You can't rule anything out.

Blue Gangsta is Dr. Freeze song and I doubt he would let anybody touching or finishing his song. There was an interview in which he said that he'll be working on his 2 songs for next MJ project.
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And Hollywood Tonight was originally recorded in 1999 with Brad Buxer. So why didn't he rework the song himself? Simply because he didn't do any production work on Michael. At the moment he's working on his own songs for the next album. The same applies with Dr. Freeze; Blue Gangsta was originally recorded in 1999. Freeze didn't work on Michael, so the song was handed to another producer to do work on. And now Freeze is working on his two songs for the next album.
 
^ We don't know if the HT we have heard was recorded in 1999. Might as well be later era vocals...

Teddy didn't work on BG. when he FINALLY got a REAL MJ song, he called Taryll saying how he finally got a real MJ song to work on I.E Hollywood Tonight and how we was so excited (then he murdered the track)
 
AlwaysThere said:
But we're the fan community, and Blue Gangsta leaked online. Teddy Riley is a producer hired by the Estate. If he downloaded the illegal leak of Blue Gangsta and openly admitted it, he's would be in deep legal issues. And the version of DYKWYCA that leaked in November of 2010 is a reworked version featuring new guitar performances by Steve Lukather. Considering we don't know who the producer is, if Teddy really spoke about it, maybe he's the producer? You can't rule anything out.



And Hollywood Tonight was originally recorded in 1999 with Brad Buxer. So why didn't he rework the song himself? Simply because he didn't do any production work on Michael. At the moment he's working on his own songs for the next album. The same applies with Dr. Freeze; Blue Gangsta was originally recorded in 1999. Freeze didn't work on Michael, so the song was handed to another producer to do work on. And now Freeze is working on his two songs for the next album.
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DYKWYCA is reworked version with new guitar played by Lukather. We don't know who produced that version. For Blue Gangsta I think that the leaked version is the same version from 1998-1999, un-edited original version.

Brad Buxer is not a producer. He never produced a single song for MJ although he worked with MJ since 1989. The same goes for Michael Durham Prince. Buxer is a piano player, synth player & musical director. Prince is sound engineer. But Neff-U worked on Hollywood with MJ as a producer. That's why he was the first choice to finish Hollywood. But Sony exec. didn't like his version.

I really doubt that Brad & Prince will finish those songs without additional producer.
 
Hess said:
Thanks Zakk.

bfm5mmfcqaa2yr3.jpg


I simply can't read this.

Could someone please write what MJ wrote on this paper?
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"One year in London 30
International #1 2 3 4 5 albums and single

Talk to
Digital people
Universal
Warner
Make huge $

Who's doing sculpture for Holloween(sic) special"
 
MLVD said:
"One year in London 30
International #1 2 3 4 5 albums and single

Talk to
Digital people
Universal
Warner
Make huge $

Who's doing sculpture for Holloween(sic) special"
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Thank you for explaing that lol i swear michael's handwriting is the hardest handwriting to read like ever lol
 
AlwaysThere said:
Teddy does have a number of releasable outtakes dating way back to the summer of 1990; I don't know whether or not they were submitted for Michael though.
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That's simply not true. He confirmed to me personally that there is only ONE such song and it is "Joy". Everything else he worked on with Michael was released, except for a few unfinished instrumental tracks (some of which Michael never even heard).
 
Alec said:
That's simply not true. He confirmed to me personally that there is only ONE such song and it is "Joy". Everything else he worked on with Michael was released, except for a few unfinished instrumental tracks (some of which Michael never even heard).
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You met Teddy?
 
Alec;3793593 said:
That's simply not true. He confirmed to me personally that there is only ONE such song and it is "Joy". Everything else he worked on with Michael was released, except for a few unfinished instrumental tracks (some of which Michael never even heard).
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That's not true either. Teddy worked with Michael for a combined eleven or twelve years. In that time, are we expected to believe that Michael only left behind a single song? Heck, Michael and Bryan Loren only worked together for two or three years and produced upwards of twenty! Teddy even has a number of outtakes from the HIStory album - an album he never even appeared on! Back in late 2009/early 2010 he did post on Twitter that a solo version of Joy exists, but that's the most in-depth he ever got.

"Well, it’s certainly true that there’s a lotta songs Michael and I did together that DIDN’T get released. But, as to whether they may now come out, I think that decision would have to be based on what HE’D have wanted. You know, Michael would have never wanted something released if it wasn’t great and if it wasn’t FINISHED. So, if a track isn’t finished, we won’t be putting it OUT there. But, as for the tracks that ARE finished? Well, you may get a SURPRISE! One might even end up on my OWN album!"

Teddy Riley, http://www.bluesandsoul.com/feature/521/teddy_riley_and_blackstreet_no_doubt
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He explicitly stated none of the supposed outtakes from Invincible exist. When I mentioned titles like "On My Anger" that have been floating around for ages, he admitted it's the first time he ever heard them and never worked with Michael on anything else for that album that hasn't been released.

When I asked him more specifically about ANY unreleased material from him and Michael, he said - and I quote - "except for 'Joy', we put them all out. Sorry".

You can find the exchange online. It was a public conversation on twitter some two years ago.

There is undoubtedly some material that they did work on together, but it's overwhelmingly incomplete. As to the songs Teddy intended for Michael post-2005, they never got around to actually doing any work on them. Look up his June 2010 Vibe interview for reference.
 
It's frankly ludicrous to me that anyone would believe what comes out of Teddy's mouth.
 
ChrisC said:
It's frankly ludicrous to me that anyone would believe what comes out of Teddy's mouth.
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I lost all respect for T.R. once he started exploiting and capitalizing on the beLIEvers, (that Michael was Alive) just to gain more followers and promote his album. They flocked to him by the hundreds and he played the game well. He blocked any fans who questioned or called him out for it. It just proved to me he was dishonest and not trustworthy and He contradicted himself many times about the tracks he was working on.
 
Alec said:
He explicitly stated none of the supposed outtakes from Invincible exist. When I mentioned titles like "On My Anger" that have been floating around for ages, he admitted it's the first time he ever heard them and never worked with Michael on anything else for that album that hasn't been released.

When I asked him more specifically about ANY unreleased material from him and Michael, he said - and I quote - "except for 'Joy', we put them all out. Sorry".

You can find the exchange online. It was a public conversation on twitter some two years ago.

There is undoubtedly some material that they did work on together, but it's overwhelmingly incomplete. As to the songs Teddy intended for Michael post-2005, they never got around to actually doing any work on them. Look up his June 2010 Vibe interview for reference.
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There is a belief among the fan community that Michael Jackson had this huge vault of material that he worked on over the years, many were expecting to hear a wealth of unreleased material, but it became very obvious shortly after MJ died that there just isn't much beyond early demos.
Yes, Michael Jackson may have worked on a lot of music in between albums, but he was just tinkering with tracks, being very selective on what he spent his effort on and completed hardly anything. While many musicians create a lot of finished tracks for the sheer joy of it - Prince has been particularly prolific throughout his career - Michael Jackson was relatively 'lazy'. My perception is that he lost interest in his music career in the 90s. Perhaps in his early days he was more interested in creating lots of tracks, but for later albums, he often just dug into the archives and re-worked demos from the glory days. He certainly didn't waste any more time than he had to working on lots of different music. I feel the enthusiasm was gone by the time BOTD was released and Invincible just doesn't have the same feel to it. It doesn't feel as though MJ's heart was in it, except the sappy 'Lost Children' and 'Speechless', which MJ clearly loved but weren't commercially viable.


The first danger signs about the strength of MJ's unreleased music came with the 'Michael' album. That album should have contained the very best of Michael Jackson's unreleased work. The most commercially viable. The most appealing. The most relevant. After such a long period without a new studio album the MJ Estate needed to bring MJ back to the fore, but while there was great interest in what they had to offer the material didn't live up to the hype. When 'Michael' was released and it featured disappointing tracks, many of which were butchered to make them releasable (obvious cut and paste lyrics, samples from old tracks etc), I knew that I should give up hope for a commercially successful posthumous album campaign in the future. I think the best we can hope for are album re-releases with a few early demos as a bonus. OR perhaps early demos reworked with other artists filling the gaps. The MJ Estate may even opt to use the vocal snippets and outtakes they have to allow MJ to feature as a guest on other artists' singles. If they don't do something like that then we may only be left with album re-releases and a few increasingly raw demos to look forward to.
 
Boomoo, are you forgetting that there were songs like Blue Gangster, A Place With No Name, Slave To The Rhythm, Do You Know Where Your Children Are, + + + + + that SHOULD have been on the album instead? The cut and paste lyrics, etc. are not relevant to the lack of finished MJ songs (yet).

There ARE lots of songs left, it's just that the Estate handled the MICHAEL fiasco album poorly.

As for Michael losing interest, I probably would agree, but we all know for a fact that he NEVER stopped working on songs.
 
Who had ever heard of Abortion Papers prior to it's release? And that song, for me, is better than anything on Invincible, for example. I don't think any of us can be sure of the quality or depth of what Michael left behind.
 
bobmoo79 said:
There is a belief among the fan community that Michael Jackson had this huge vault of material that he worked on over the years, many were expecting to hear a wealth of unreleased material, but it became very obvious shortly after MJ died that there just isn't much beyond early demos.
Yes, Michael Jackson may have worked on a lot of music in between albums, but he was just tinkering with tracks, being very selective on what he spent his effort on and completed hardly anything. While many musicians create a lot of finished tracks for the sheer joy of it - Prince has been particularly prolific throughout his career - Michael Jackson was relatively 'lazy'. My perception is that he lost interest in his music career in the 90s. Perhaps in his early days he was more interested in creating lots of tracks, but for later albums, he often just dug into the archives and re-worked demos from the glory days. He certainly didn't waste any more time than he had to working on lots of different music. I feel the enthusiasm was gone by the time BOTD was released and Invincible just doesn't have the same feel to it. It doesn't feel as though MJ's heart was in it, except the sappy 'Lost Children' and 'Speechless', which MJ clearly loved but weren't commercially viable.


The first danger signs about the strength of MJ's unreleased music came with the 'Michael' album. That album should have contained the very best of Michael Jackson's unreleased work. The most commercially viable. The most appealing. The most relevant. After such a long period without a new studio album the MJ Estate needed to bring MJ back to the fore, but while there was great interest in what they had to offer the material didn't live up to the hype. When 'Michael' was released and it featured disappointing tracks, many of which were butchered to make them releasable (obvious cut and paste lyrics, samples from old tracks etc), I knew that I should give up hope for a commercially successful posthumous album campaign in the future. I think the best we can hope for are album re-releases with a few early demos as a bonus. OR perhaps early demos reworked with other artists filling the gaps. The MJ Estate may even opt to use the vocal snippets and outtakes they have to allow MJ to feature as a guest on other artists' singles. If they don't do something like that then we may only be left with album re-releases and a few increasingly raw demos to look forward to.
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One thing is a complete song: Blue Gangsta, Do You Know Where Your Children Are, Escape, Another Day, Hold My Hand, Slave To The Rhythm, A Place With No Name, Much Too Soon...

Maybe there is not so many songs in that shape.

But you are forgeting the songs with complete vocals that just need to be finished musically or songs with incomplete vocals that can be finished (like Hollywood Tonight). There are also many demos that have usable vocals like Behind The Mask, Love Never Felt So Good, I'm So Blue, Price of Fame...

Then there are demos with incomplete vocals like Free, Al Capone that can be released only on anniversary editions or boxsets.

In my opinion there is a lot of songs and there is enormous potential in those songs. But the songs are either not in Estate's possession (RedOne songs, will.i.am songs) or Estate don't know how to deal with those songs.

If Price of Fame or I'm So Blue were finished by Quincy or Bill Bottrel, or even Matt Forger, but with current production and new instrumentation, those songs could have been hits.
 
bobmoo79 said:
There is a belief among the fan community that Michael Jackson had this huge vault of material that he worked on over the years, many were expecting to hear a wealth of unreleased material, but it became very obvious shortly after MJ died that there just isn't much beyond early demos.

The first danger signs about the strength of MJ's unreleased music came with the 'Michael' album. That album should have contained the very best of Michael Jackson's unreleased work. The most commercially viable. The most appealing. The most relevant. After such a long period without a new studio album the MJ Estate needed to bring MJ back to the fore, but while there was great interest in what they had to offer the material didn't live up to the hype. When 'Michael' was released and it featured disappointing tracks, many of which were butchered to make them releasable (obvious cut and paste lyrics, samples from old tracks etc), I knew that I should give up hope for a commercially successful posthumous album campaign in the future. I think the best we can hope for are album re-releases with a few early demos as a bonus. OR perhaps early demos reworked with other artists filling the gaps. The MJ Estate may even opt to use the vocal snippets and outtakes they have to allow MJ to feature as a guest on other artists' singles. If they don't do something like that then we may only be left with album re-releases and a few increasingly raw demos to look forward to.
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Michael was produced to create a satisfying studio album that (a) primarily included songs that were recorded and/or worked on in Michael's last years and stood the biggest chance of a release, (b) sounded contemporary enough to make an impact on the charts and (c) gave the fans some great music. They succeeded in both points (a) and (b), and partially succeeded in (c). Most of these songs were worked on or recorded between 2005 and 2009, if you take the Cascio hearsay into account, and they do sound like some of the music that still impacts the charts. The downside was that the Estate threw this compilation together in a quick amount of time without much thought.

There was no way in hell that Michael's best material would be released first. There are dozens of stunning songs remaining in the vault to be released in the future. If Michael's best work was released first the fans would easily be more and more disappointed with each album that followed.
 
^ you're absolutely right. Thats what I partly meant when saying not everything should be released from '09 and a year or 5 after that.

anyway, that'll be real disappointing and the interest would be lost, even it were for MJ. Don't bite me for saying this folks..
and yes Im a fan. I want it to be special when something of Michael gets released. Don't judge who is a ''hardcore'' fan and who isnt as its so unnecessary..

All I hope for is that they should wait at the very least until the end of 2013 without releasing/doing any MJ related things. There are SO many things going on that it'll be enough for awhile so all of us get to be REAL excited when something new will be released. But I dont think that'll be the case, as at the end of 2013 there will be about 3 years left of that contract they made and they do have to get everything out there. But will that really be it i wonder?
 
Half of Bad 25 I didn't even know existed. Let's wait and see what they pull out of the 'vault'
 
dam2040 said:
Half of Bad 25 I didn't even know existed. Let's wait and see what they pull out of the 'vault'
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Exactly! I'm So Blue and Abortion Papers were completely unheard of prior to Bad 25. There are actually several hard drives that have been recently discovered by the Estate. At the moment there are workers looking through them to see if there is any previously undiscovered material on them. So we can only hope there is more music to be found.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Exactly! I'm So Blue and Abortion Papers were completely unheard of prior to Bad 25. There are actually several hard drives that have been recently discovered by the Estate. At the moment there are workers looking through them to see if there is any previously undiscovered material on them. So we can only hope there is more music to be found.
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We've got more MJ to come. That's certain, and it's all I really care about right now. Let's get going Estate and release a new 100% untouched Michael Jackson album!
 
I'm sure there a a few hundred song far enough along that would be worth releasing. I think the estate will give us something great very soon. You can't hold on to the songs to long. Most of MJs stuff is timeless but the songs recorded that were intended for release only have a commercial interest for so long
 
Pentum said:
Boomoo, are you forgetting that there were songs like Blue Gangster, A Place With No Name, Slave To The Rhythm, Do You Know Where Your Children Are, + + + + + that SHOULD have been on the album instead? The cut and paste lyrics, etc. are not relevant to the lack of finished MJ songs (yet).

There ARE lots of songs left, it's just that the Estate handled the MICHAEL fiasco album poorly.

As for Michael losing interest, I probably would agree, but we all know for a fact that he NEVER stopped working on songs.
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Word.
 
AlwaysThere said:
They succeeded in both points (a) and (b)
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With regards point (a), very generous.

There was no way in hell that Michael's best material would be released first. There are dozens of stunning songs remaining in the vault to be released in the future. If Michael's best work was released first the fans would easily be more and more disappointed with each album that followed.
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It's because the Estate served up the very old and luke warm offering of This Is It, as the first new MJ music release post-death, that we are in this position we are in now - which in my opinion is a general public and media that is fairly indifferent towards new/unheard Michael Jackson songs. They were led up the garden path with silly embargoes and odd promotional videos of security men 'delivering' the song to radio to be met with an average and outdated ballad. Notwithstanding what many perceived as a deceptive attempt to align the song with the movie/concerts.

And then IF there was a second chance, it was once again thwarted with a decidedly MJ-lite Hold My Hand.

What people really wanted was the album that could have been, and what we got was just a jumble sale of odds and ends spanning 30 odd years with the backdrop of several articles questioning the authenticity of those tracks. For fans it was even worse, in which 4 of the 7 new songs had already been heard before - either partially or entirely or a version thereof.

What is the way back from here? Or should I say forward? The Bad tour represented an opportunity in the form of a large scale theatrical release (or at least a quality home release) ie. not a grainy video transfer, as did the Bad 25 documentary. But as we know, circumstances did not work in our favour re: the former and the Estate did not pursue the latter. Either one of those events would have created a splash large enough to cross-promote the Bad 25 set, the films themselves and ultimately Michael Jackson and firmly re-confirm posthumous Jackson releases as commercially significant and deliver them back into the public consciousness.

I guess the only thing left to do is find some great songs. And I mean great.

And sure, I could say 'oh it doesn't matter what the public think' or 'what the critics say or what the charts are doing'. And I'd consume each and every tidbit the Estate throw my way with regards to genuine Michael Jackson work. But I still think his legacy is important and I want to see it given the attention and care it deserves.
 
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