Travis, I see what you're saying...I really do....I don't have a logical explanation.....Money is the only thing I can come up with, as MattyJam has said..I can't believe they'd all betray him like this either. That doesn't make any sense to me at all..So I agree with your statement 100%..But, it still doesn't answer the question..plain and simple 'why do these three songs sound NOTHING like Michael Jackson? Why do these songs (especially Monster, for me) sound like another person altogether? Someone who sounds like MJ, yes, but to me, definintely NOT MJ? This question still remains for a lot of us..You can hear these songs yourself and truly feel that it is him, because of what you hear with your own ears, and what Sony/Estate tells us...But I don't hear him, no matter what they say...But what I don't understand is that if they have SO much in the vault to use...they'd still make money with that..so why these questionable songs? I wish with all my heart and soul that it's Michael in those songs, this isn't something I like feeling..that it's NOT him in these songs...But, I can't fool myself into believing that it's him, no matter what they say...
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Michael Jackson feat. 50 cent - MONSTER - its the real deal says 50 -READ!
- Thread starter lettermj
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Travis, I see what you're saying...I really do....I don't have a logical explanation.....Money is the only thing I can come up with, as MattyJam has said..I can't believe they'd all betray him like this either. That doesn't make any sense to me at all..So I agree with your statement 100%..But, it still doesn't answer the question..plain and simple 'why do these three songs sound NOTHING like Michael Jackson? Why do these songs (especially Monster, for me) sound like another person altogether? Someone who sounds like MJ, yes, but to me, definintely NOT MJ? This question still remains for a lot of us..You can hear these songs yourself and truly feel that it is him, because of what you hear with your own ears, and what Sony/Estate tells us...But I don't hear him, no matter what they say...But what I don't understand is that if they have SO much in the vault to use...they'd still make money with that..so why these questionable songs? I wish with all my heart and soul that it's Michael in those songs, this isn't something I like feeling..that it's NOT him in these songs...But, I can't fool myself into believing that it's him, no matter what they say...
Graf
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That's the thing Travis, the belief it's him singing is actually based on "Well, they would never try anything like this" rather than it actually sounding like Michael..Which, to me is just wrong by it being like that. My belief for the whole time was like that, I never honestly feel it sounds like Michael, but I'm just trying to logically look at it go "They would never risk this" was my reason why I felt it had to be him...
I can't fully answer why they would do something like that ,Maybe they believed they could get more albums out if they did this, it really is just crazy why they would even do it, but the reality is, the lead vocals of the Cascio songs don't fully sound like him. (Not going to mention the odd ad libs) All of it is extremely odd, I want to support this album, but I whenever I hear a Cascio track I can't help think.."This doesn't sound like Michael singing, but I guess it has to be him because otherwise I would be a 'conspiracy' theorist"
MattyJam
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Teddy Riley recently filed for bankcruptcy and hasn't had a hit in years, so he has a major financial incentive.
None of us know how well off the Cascio's are. But you can bet that even if they were comfortable financially, they would've been paid handsomely for the songs they handed over to the estate. A lot of people would sell a friend down the river for $5million.
As for John Branca, I don't know about him. But we DO know that John McCain wanted the Cascio songs taken off the album, so there must be serious doubts even from members of the estate.
butterflies
Proud Member
This is exactly how I feel too. It would HAVE to be a huge conspiracy for it to NOT be Michael. Can't everyone see that? The Jacksons have money, they can sue Sony if they truly believe it's not him. Fans should encourage them to do so, since they (the ones who did it) have encouraged fans to believe it wasn't him singing.
And for money??? Do you think the HUGE Sony Corporation does NOT have money???? They spent $250 MILLION to buy Michael Jackson material. I would think THEY would be pissed and want to find out the truth since they spent that kind of money on it. Think about it. Sony paid for MJ material. The Cascios and the Estate fool them into thinking it's really Michael singing, and it's not. They distribute material saying that it's MICHAEL JACKSON to make money, and they get sued, and it all comes out that it wasn't really him singing. Sony would be in a world of trouble then, would they not??? So you honestly think that Sony would NOT actually do an investigation, including hiring a forensic musicologist to ensure the authenticity of the tracks??? Do you really think they are that dumb??? Despite what some people think, the people at Sony are NOT dumb or they wouldn't be so successful. They wouldn't pay that much money, only to be sued and end up ruining their reputation and losing much more money for selling FAKE material.
So the only reason anyone has for not believing it's Michael is "it doesn't sound like him to me". Okay, well listen to how different Michael's voice is on "Who is it". "I gave her money, I gave her time, I gave her everything..." compared to "Someone in the dark". "When someone in the dark reaches out to you". When I first heard "Who is it", I didn't really like it. It sounded so different than the Michael I had grown up listening to on Billie Jean, Beat It, Thriller, etc. But now I absolutely LOVE it. Michael sang in all different styles, he did all sorts of things with his voice, and he was constantly wanting to make things new and fresh. I personally like the Cascio songs. They are different, and they are good. I hear Michael on them. Do I hear background singers? Yes, but it's not like he's never had them before. Just try to think logically and not think "but it doesn't sound like him to me". What we hear is subjective, facts are not.
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Garden
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Ha, that clip I'm gonna search for and watch :-D, I love it!
I get that. I understand what everyone is saying, but at the end of the day, there isn't a logical explanation. I think the tracks do sound like Michael. Maybe off at times, but still very much like him. I just wish there was some way to definitively answer this head banging question but I don't think there is. We do need answers. I realize that. I don't like what this has done to his fans and community. It has us all pulled every which way. No one knows what to believe anymore. I'm afraid Sony will never be able to give us the answers we want to hear. They say they've already done the tests but that's not good enough I guess because they didn't produce receipts or whatever. I dunno. I'm not sure what would possibly settle this. To be honest, I think there will never be definitive proof either way because there are stubborn people who will always dismiss it and cry "FAKE" even if Jesus sent Michael back down to earth by elevator to confirm the Cascio tracks authenticity.
I mean, the only way I'd believe 100% without a doubt that it's him is if I saw the report of the tests they did....There's no other way to prove it, obviously...Will we ever see this? no....likely not...They can all say it's him until they're blue in the face...I still won't believe them, not because I'm stubborn or a conspiracy theorist..but because it simply sounds like another person to me. Have we EVER doubted another MJ song in the past to this degree? Not that I know of...To this degree where whatever huge percentage of the fanbase thinks it's someone else, or at least not even close to 100% him? This is HUGE for a vast amount of fans to question his vocals..I practically live and breathe Michael Jackson...I'd like to say i'm pretty damn familiar with his voice...I guess I can accept the songs on the album, as obviously we have no other choice...But, I'm tellin' ya...if Monster is released as a single, as it's rumoured to be, then that's a huge, huge problem..I've already anticipated this song being a single, and some random non-fan being like, 'oh did you hear the new Michael Jackson song? I love it, it's awesome!'....I'd be like :mello:
82Thriller84
Proud Member
To Me, It Never sounded enough like Michael from the very beginning. :no:
Especially with that, let's say, unusual Vibrato. :mello:
But for some reason I can't stop listening to it, it's the only song of the album I'm letting my self listen to,
(except 'Hold My Hand') before I receive the Album.
I actually always wanted to hear 50 Cent on a Michael song and this really does work and I love it! :wild:
However, I still can't see how any or even parts of "Monster" are Michael though.
I deeply want all the Cascio songs to be him, just can't hear it.:sigh:
Especially with that, let's say, unusual Vibrato. :mello:
But for some reason I can't stop listening to it, it's the only song of the album I'm letting my self listen to,
(except 'Hold My Hand') before I receive the Album.
I actually always wanted to hear 50 Cent on a Michael song and this really does work and I love it! :wild:
However, I still can't see how any or even parts of "Monster" are Michael though.
I deeply want all the Cascio songs to be him, just can't hear it.:sigh:
butterflies
Proud Member
And we also know that there are fans who can't stand John McClain and think he should have nothing to do with making any MJ albums.
People never questioned before if it was actually Michael on an album for the simple reason that Michael was always ALIVE in the past. Now he's not, or this wouldn't be going on now either.
I think at our core, we all understand each other. I don't blame anyone on either side of the fence. I really don't. I just hope we can all keep open minds and base our finding on logic and reason, not influenced hysteria. The Jacksons all got this ball rolling and unfortunately many of MJ's fans are influenced by them (not sure why after all they put him through). Let's try to keep our cool. Right now, the only choice we really have is to accept the songs as Michael Jackson because realistically, there is little to no chance that so many of MJ's friends and big bad Sony would risk MILLIONS in lawsuits. It doesn't make sense. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. Until the allegations can be proven, the Cascio tracks are all Michael Jackson.
Agree with you...I think we all really do understand each other's sides....Cheers to civil, mature adult conversation!
unk: It's hard to say that we really have to accept the songs as Michael Jackson, because I really can't do that...I really can't....They'll be on the album, and tainted for me...I can't sit there and listen to the Cascio songs and accept them as Michael Jackson..But I understand why you're saying that.....I can actually hear him in BN, not 100%, but I can hear him there...But, not for the other two...Anna
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I don't know what to think anymore... All I know is that I can recognise MJ's voice straight away on certified MJ tracks and the other 7 tracks on the Michael album and whenever I hear him speaking. But I have to admit that something about the Cascio ones just isn't... quite right. I don't know whether it's because they've been processed, mixed and edited differently to other MJ tracks, or whether it's because it's not MJ.
I just think back to my initial reaction when I first heard the Cascio tracks and there was a little doubt. There wasn't that instant feeling and knowing that I was listening to MJ. And if it was really MJ, I wonder if I would have felt like that? No matter what the recording conditions and processing did to the tracks, I feel like I should still be able to recognise MJ's voice instantly. No one else can sing exactly like he can, not even the best soundalikes.
Maybe I'm just looking too much into this and it is MJ. Maybe his vocals were just really altered during the completion of the tracks, like Teddy Riley said. He said they are very processed.
Argh! I don't know. I'm fed up of this.
I just think back to my initial reaction when I first heard the Cascio tracks and there was a little doubt. There wasn't that instant feeling and knowing that I was listening to MJ. And if it was really MJ, I wonder if I would have felt like that? No matter what the recording conditions and processing did to the tracks, I feel like I should still be able to recognise MJ's voice instantly. No one else can sing exactly like he can, not even the best soundalikes.
Maybe I'm just looking too much into this and it is MJ. Maybe his vocals were just really altered during the completion of the tracks, like Teddy Riley said. He said they are very processed.
Argh! I don't know.
I'm fed up of this.Kingofpop4ever3000
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Even though I have my issues about the Cascio tracks, I have to agree with those who believe in the songs as well. People were asking questions about these songs from the beginning possibly because of claims from Michael's family that the Cascio tracks were fake. They were saying this as far back as this past summer. Not to mention that some time back there was talk that McClain only wanted older 80's-sounding outtakes on the album because he was allegedly very "old skool" and didn't like it when modern-sounding stuff was turned in for the project. Sony opted for the modern stuff. But I think that the "fake songs" thing got the point that they became afraid. But they still wanted a modern sound for the album and so they had the songs tested. Once they were told by the forensics people that it was definitely Michael, they decided to put them on the album. I truely want to believe that if they had been told otherwise, those questionable tracks wouldn't be on the album right now. I don't know what really happened. But it is very possible IMO that if the songs are 100% fake, that Sony might be innocent for their part in this.
Anyway, I personally am getting sick of this. It just goes on and on and round and round. I'm only going to buy the album because I don't want the media's usual snarky remarks about Michael if the album fails. Because they are going to stamp on his grave before they blame anybody else for that.
Anyway, I personally am getting sick of this. It just goes on and on and round and round. I'm only going to buy the album because I don't want the media's usual snarky remarks about Michael if the album fails. Because they are going to stamp on his grave before they blame anybody else for that.
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ASIS
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Dude, those vibratos. That's what's wrong. TI don't know what to think anymore... All I know is that I can recognise MJ's voice straight away on certified MJ tracks and the other 7 tracks on the Michael album and whenever I hear him speaking. But I have to admit that something about the Cascio ones just isn't... quite right. I don't know whether it's because they've been processed, mixed and edited differently to other MJ tracks, or whether it's because it's not MJ.
I just think back to my initial reaction when I first heard the Cascio tracks and there was a little doubt. There wasn't that instant feeling and knowing that I was listening to MJ. And if it was really MJ, I wonder if I would have felt like that? No matter what the recording conditions and processing did to the tracks, I feel like I should still be able to recognise MJ's voice instantly. No one else can sing exactly like he can, not even the best soundalikes.
Maybe I'm just looking too much into this and it is MJ. Maybe his vocals were just really altered during the completion of the tracks, like Teddy Riley said. He said they are very processed.
Argh! I don't know.
love is magical
Proud Member
Couldn't agree with you more. I wonder people believe Michael are on the tracks 100% not because they feel Michael in the vocals, but because they think Sony will not risk to do something this ridiculous.
I consider myself a logical person. But, in this case, my instinct overwhelms my logical thinking.
Anna
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Yes, I know. But that could just be how the tracks were completed because it doesn't sound natural.
Asedora
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One day many of you will find yourself as a conspirasy theorists. Monster is the fakest track in this album. Even BN sounds much better imo. Actually I like BN, especially the lyrics
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I'm gonna say that I have to go on instinct with this one...What other choice do we have? Michael has always emphasized the 'FEELING' of music as opposed to anything else..He expertly and very naturally accomplished this no matter what he was singing, no matter how old he was, or state of mind he was in...He sang and performed with FEELING...why do you think we hear his hand claps and feet stomping in a lot of his recordings? Even just simply recording, he HAD to move, and he evoked emotion....So, in using this as what we know...why am I having such a hard time believing the person in those Cascio tracks really mean what they are singing, and to me, it just feels like another random singer, TRYING to sound like Mike....Michael communicated through his music...So, why do I feel like the communication has been severed in these songs? Even just that little phone message on the beginning of The Way You Love Me...he sang a teeny little part, yet i FELT that...
82Thriller84
Proud Member
Arklove;3127141 said:
I just have to agree with you again Arklove.
You are so right! Michael is all about Emotion and Feeling and as you mentioned…
I Just Can't FEEL It.:no:
love is magical
Proud Member
I really like the last few posts. I enjoy how we are capable of having a civilized conversation. People have different viewpoints; yet, we are able to express our views peacefully. We don't scream and yell. We don't call each other names. We don't belittle each other. Way to go! unk:
Let me say this. I'm not against Sony. I own many Sony products and understand how Sony exists to make a profit. Nothing wrong with it.
But for those who keep saying Sony will not risk its reputation to include doubtful traks. Well... money is indeed a very powerful incentive. Many corporations in the world have risked their reptutaions and ended up paying huge penalties.
If we all go by logics, why would British Petroleum operate such a risky oil drill in the Gulf of Mexico? Why would Lehman Brothers engage in such risky mortgage-backed securities transactions? Why would big pharmaceutical companies manufacture harmful drungs? Why would tobacco companies keep selling cigarettes? All for MONEY.
unk:Let me say this. I'm not against Sony. I own many Sony products and understand how Sony exists to make a profit. Nothing wrong with it.
But for those who keep saying Sony will not risk its reputation to include doubtful traks. Well... money is indeed a very powerful incentive. Many corporations in the world have risked their reptutaions and ended up paying huge penalties.
If we all go by logics, why would British Petroleum operate such a risky oil drill in the Gulf of Mexico? Why would Lehman Brothers engage in such risky mortgage-backed securities transactions? Why would big pharmaceutical companies manufacture harmful drungs? Why would tobacco companies keep selling cigarettes? All for MONEY.
Fiona
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I SO agree with this post!
The thing about Michael is he is an amazing, gifted vocalist, who could change and adapt his voice in many ways. He was very versatile. I believe that if Michael had died a few years ago and people heard "2000 Watts" or "Shout" people would be saying that those tracks were fake too because Michael sounds so DIFFERENT in those songs.
I remember when I first heard 2000 Watts, I clearly remember thinking 'Wow, is that Michael?' or 'Is that an effect on his voice?' because it was the first time I heard him use his vocals in such a way.
Is it not possible Michael just sounded slightly different because he was using his voice in a different way?
I am actually open minded. I lean more towards the Cascio songs being genuine. I will gladly be proved right or wrong, I don't have an agenda here, I just want to know the truth. For now though, I am enjoying the songs with the understanding that Michael did have an amazing voice -and was more than capable of reaching different ranges and altering his tone etc. I personally feel that the worst case scenario (and likely scenario) is that the Cascio's had some great songs, 90% complete, and POSSIBLY had someone come and fill any missing gaps. I don't believe all the songs are products of an impersonator - the mood, feel and lyrics are too much like MJ to me!
I personally have a very hard time believing that anybody would need to add on three fake songs to an album. Just three songs? Surely Michael had TONS of songs they could choose from? And if they don't - they could have used other songs such as We've Had Enough or Xscape - considering they saw fit to use 'The Way You Love Me.'
Graf
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One day many of you will find yourself as a conspirasy theorists. Monster is the fakest track in this album. Even BN sounds much better imo. Actually I like BN, especially the lyrics
Heh, well I don't even consider doubting the Casco vocals to be a full out conspiracy theory, IMO of course, because they don't really sound like him, even someone who believes it's him will admit it doesn't truly sound like him...Not to mention you do have family members, including 3T (Who we all apparently loved and respected before all this) saying the things they are saying..I am hope I am wrong though and it's Michael but they just decided to add weird weird vocals effects or something.
love is magical
Proud Member
Totally. We are in the same wave length today.
The producers of Earth Song were so smart that they kept Michael's hand claps in the record. Also, in Whatever Happens, the hand claps are clear. The finger snaps in Man in the Mirror is another Michael characteristic.
At the beginning of Best of Joy, we can hear Michael's habit, his hand claps are kept in the record.
The strange thing is that the typical Michael characteristics are absent in the Cascio tracks. Again, it's not style I'm talking about. It's habit. It has nothing to do with studio environment or skills of producers.
I really like the last few posts. I enjoy how we are capable of having a civilized conversation. People have different viewpoints; yet, we are able to express our views peacefully. We don't scream and yell. We don't call each other names. We don't belittle each other. Way to go!
Let me say this. I'm not against Sony. I own many Sony products and understand how Sony exists to make a profit. Nothing wrong with it.
But for those who keep saying Sony will not risk its reputation to include doubtful traks. Well... money is indeed a very powerful incentive. Many corporations in the world have risked their reptutaions and ended up paying huge penalties.
If we all go by logics, why would British Petroleum operate such a risky oil drill in the Gulf of Mexico? Why would Lehman Brothers engage in such risky mortgage-backed securities transactions? Why would big pharmaceutical companies manufacture harmful drungs? Why would tobacco companies keep selling cigarettes? All for MONEY.
Here's the thing though, those people behind those companies and products you mentioned knew the risks involved and chose to do it anyway. Same with the consumers. Whose to blame? I don't really feel it has much to do with our current situation. The problem isn't about earning money, it's about losing it and to do such a monstrous thing would absolutely cost everyone involved so many millions even Bill Gates would shed a tear.
Questions were raised by Jackson members who weren't going to earn a dime, they were investigated, and found to be baseless. What more can Sony do? I know people want to see the forensic tests, but who knows, maybe they will release them sometime. I think, if people REALLY felt they were being duped or that their son, brother, or uncle was being spat on... they would do that rightful thing and sue. Sony is obviously not part of some big MJ "FU" campaign. They have far too much invested, and I don't believe MJ's closest friends would send him down the river for money. Maybe I'm foolish, but I do have faith in MJ's circle of friends. I have to believe he knew what he was doing when he chose the people who would be not only be in his life but also taker care of business after he was gone.
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I really like the last few posts. I enjoy how we are capable of having a civilized conversation. People have different viewpoints; yet, we are able to express our views peacefully. We don't scream and yell. We don't call each other names. We don't belittle each other. Way to go!
Let me say this. I'm not against Sony. I own many Sony products and understand how Sony exists to make a profit. Nothing wrong with it.
But for those who keep saying Sony will not risk its reputation to include doubtful traks. Well... money is indeed a very powerful incentive. Many corporations in the world have risked their reptutaions and ended up paying huge penalties.
If we all go by logics, why would British Petroleum operate such a risky oil drill in the Gulf of Mexico? Why would Lehman Brothers engage in such risky mortgage-backed securities transactions? Why would big pharmaceutical companies manufacture harmful drungs? Why would tobacco companies keep selling cigarettes? All for MONEY.
sadly, disgustingly, and sickeningly, this could all very well be true :no:
His financial problems aren't that recent or that serious actually.
He filed for bankruptcy in 2002. He emerged from it 2003. So he's not recently bankrupt.
The other financial issues were about him not paying his taxes. He sold one of his houses to pay for the most of it. The most recent (07-08) tax lien against him is only around $300,000.
He has a really nice house and studio in Atlanta.
DeeEmAych
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whoooooo caaaaaares if the "HA" is copy n pasted or not...
for christ's sake the man is dead!
of course he wont be able to come back in and record new vocals cuz his voice dont work like that no more..
its no secret they finished these tracks AFTER he died...
so why is it such a big deal..
it just is used to fill out the song more and make it seem more complete..
get over yourselves about this "HA" thing cuz its not serious..
-Dal
for christ's sake the man is dead!
of course he wont be able to come back in and record new vocals cuz his voice dont work like that no more..
its no secret they finished these tracks AFTER he died...
so why is it such a big deal..
it just is used to fill out the song more and make it seem more complete..
get over yourselves about this "HA" thing cuz its not serious..
-Dal
AnnieRUOkay89
Proud Member
1:44 and on, The falsetto is very similar to the one used on the Cascio tracks. As we know, Michael sang this without any warm up, and in a different circumstance, other than the studio. He's sang live plenty of times, but this was after years of being inactive, in terms of live performance. This is from November of 2006, 9 months before Michael allegedly showed up at the Cascio's door step. Make what you want of it.