Michael Jackson Estate to Joe: No, No, No

[Ramona122003]

Thank you. So does this mean that he would had to have been either breathing or have a pulse when the EMTs first arrived? I think I read that they worked on him at the house for 40 minutes or so.

Not necessarily.

A person can be flat line when the MTs arrive and not be declare dead. It depends on how long that person has been flat line before help arrived, or if care was already started.

My uncle suffered a sudden heart attack and my other uncle worked on him until helped arrived. They took him to the hospital right away, but he was clinically dead before they arrived. They weren't able to save him, unfortunately, but they worked on him for almost an hour before he was pronounce dead.

 

[curlybrat]

Not necessarily.

A person can be flat line when the MTs arrive and not be declare dead. It depends on how long that person has been flat line before help arrived, or if care was already started.

My uncle suffered a sudden heart attack and my other uncle worked on him until helped arrived. They took him to the hospital right away, but he was clinically dead before they arrived. They weren't able to save him, unfortunately, but they worked on him for almost an hour before he was pronounce dead.

Oh! I am sorry to hear about your uncle. Thank you again for your insight.

 

[max000]

Joe Jackson's very FIRST course of action should be to get rid of Brian Oxman as his attorney. That's the first step, in my opinion. Oxman is a clown who cannot be trusted and he's also a media whore.

Oxman would be WAVING Michael's medical papers on the Nancy Grace show, 2 seconds after he obtained them.

Any attorney worth his salt would not have allowed Joe Jackson to ask for an allowance that includes money for his daughter and HER daughter, money for lavish hotels and airfare for vacations. They would have advised Joe to request money for his basic day-to-day needs. An attorney worth his salt would be advising Joe to wait until the conclusion of the criminal case before taking any further legal steps.

Whether Joe Jackson's request for Michael's medical records is for legitimate reasons or not, he will not be taken seriously with Brian Oxman as his attorney and mouth piece.

The voice of reason.!

 

[Sophielo]

I echo the assertions that Joe should rid himself of Oxman. Oxman is a crook who as soon as he obtains the medical papers will then decide to sell them to the highest bidder. Always has and always will.

 

[mjjmsc]

Michael was dead when the ambulance came,but he was pronounced dead at the hospital.and the executors are right:Joe only wants the documents because he wants money!

 

[princessleia]

I don't understand, Joe gets blasted all the time for being a broke, jobless leech living off Michael's money, but when he goes to court claiming the same thing, that he did recieve financial support, all of a sudden he is not dependent on Michael and doesn't have legal standing.

Afaik, maintenance /= survival, the purpose of maintenance is to allow you to keep up the standard of living you're used to. I'm certain MJ was giving money to his mother knowing that some of it is going to others, including his father, and he was ok with that. I also don't think Michael would have been so petty, honestly.

And let me just also point out that Joe (and Oxman) already know a lot of info about the investigation, and they have not sold to it the media. He also did not take any pictures of Michael's body (or his tomb) to sell. He didn't even want to see Michael dead because he didn't want to remember him that way, so what makes people think he would want to have such photos plastered all over for the whole world to see?

Joe is not my favourite person either, but we shouldn't let the hatred blind us.

 

[Memefan]

This is slightly wrong. The LAPD close the house up almost the moment Michael was dead. The house was not release back towards the family until that night. It was during this time that they took Murray's car.

They only went back to get Murray's doctor bag, which was hidden. It was hidden so well that the LAPD and the family completely missed it because the bag was exactly where Murray left it.

Although, it would had been better for Murray to 'discover' Michael more than the crap he did instead.

Where am I wrong? Had MJ been declared dead at ohm, the police would have sealed the house and go through t with a fine toothed comb before opening it again to the family.

In the evening of june 25th, lots of people went to the house to move things....therefore evidence is not reliable.

Latoya and her boyfriend claiming to have found tar heroin in the house...which turns out to be false.

The house would not have been turned over to the family for days. we don't know what they took away, if evidence was moved...

I don't understand, Joe gets blasted all the time for being a broke, jobless leech living off Michael's money, but when he goes to court claiming the same thing, that he did recieve financial support, all of a sudden he is not dependent on Michael and doesn't have legal standing.

Afaik, maintenance /= survival, the purpose of maintenance is to allow you to keep up the standard of living you're used to. I'm certain MJ was giving money to his mother knowing that some of it is going to others, including his father, and he was ok with that. I also don't think Michael would have been so petty, honestly.

And let me just also point out that Joe (and Oxman) already know a lot of info about the investigation, and they have not sold to it the media. He also did not take any pictures of Michael's body (or his tomb) to sell. He didn't even want to see Michael dead because he didn't want to remember him that way, so what makes people think he would want to have such photos plastered all over for the whole world to see?

Joe is not my favourite person either, but we shouldn't let the hatred blind us.

He never received support directly from MJ.

 

[Beachlover]

I don't hate Joe. I don't trust him, but there is no reason to hate him.

He is not the one entitled to file a civil suit. That money rightly should go to his children. I see this as a bid to take away from his grand children and somehow this seems very selfish and self serving to me.

Wanting to find out what happened to his son I can truly understand but the bottom line is that he is not entitled to money from his sons estate.

Think about this. In Joes lifetime he has had more money than most of us will ever see and he managed to blow it all. Well, thats not something his dead son should have to pay for. He already received a lot of money over his sons lifetime for his sons talent.

As far as the medical records and all of that information, it is protected by law for a reason. So far, no one has come forward and told us anything and as much as I want to know what happened myself; I am just a fan and not entitled to that information.

 

[Ramona122003]

Where am I wrong? Had MJ been declared dead at ohm, the police would have sealed the house and go through t with a fine toothed comb before opening it again to the family.

In the evening of june 25th, lots of people went to the house to move things....therefore evidence is not reliable.

Latoya and her boyfriend claiming to have found tar heroin in the house...which turns out to be false.

The house would not have been turned over to the family for days. we don't know what they took away, if evidence was moved...

They did go through with a fine tooth comb, that is what I am trying to tell you.

It does not take days to seal and search a crime scene for this kind of crime. If they found signs of a physical struggle or something of that nature then yes, the house would had been seal for days for physical evidences. Since that was not the case, they didn't need to seal the house for day.

Also, the crime scene is and was Michael's own body. It does not matter what drugs were or were not in his house since it was in his body. They found a mountain of pills bottles all over Murray's room that pointed towards Michael OD himself, but not one was in his body. So the fact that they found a bunch of drugs is moot. Murray's doctor bag was also where he had left it because he hid it. The family and the LAPD never touched it and it had every drug that was found in the tox, so it is unlikely it was planted.

Toy and the family did not go into the house until June 26. Before then, the house was sealed the moment Michael was announce dead. No one moved anything on the June 25.

 

[Rockin.]

All I want to know now is does this patient-doctor privilage technicality exist with Katherine too?

 

[Memefan]

They did go through with a fine tooth comb, that is what I am trying to tell you.

It does not take days to seal and search a crime scene for this kind of crime. If they found signs of a physical struggle or something of that nature then yes, the house would had been seal for days for physical evidences. Since that was not the case, they didn't need to seal the house for day.

Also, the crime scene is and was Michael's own body. It does not matter what drugs were or were not in his house since it was in his body. They found a mountain of pills bottles all over Murray's room that pointed towards Michael OD himself, but not one was in his body. So the fact that they found a bunch of drugs is moot. Murray's doctor bag was also where he had left it because he hid it. The family and the LAPD never touched it and it had every drug that was found in the tox, so it is unlikely it was planted.

Toy and the family did not go into the house until June 26. Before then, the house was sealed the moment Michael was announce dead. No one moved anything on the June 25.

No they did not go through the house UNTIL the family called them up again.

MJ's security closed the house before they went to the hospital...but in the early evening the family went to house to pick up several boxess.

The police DID NOT go the house UNTIL Latoya called with the heroin tar finding. Re-read the police affidavit.

Police had no reason to suspect to start looking at a "crime scene" because MJ was not declared dead at the house.

They were at the house the same evening MJ passed, because they were afraid of "looters".

 

[princessleia]

I don't hate Joe. I don't trust him, but there is no reason to hate him.

He is not the one entitled to file a civil suit.

If he can establish thet he's a dependent of the estate, he IS entitled to file a civil suit.
If Joe gets his allowance, I think there would be no question anymore if he's entitled to medical records or file a lawsuit, as he will have established his legal standing as a dependent of the estate. Maybe that's the real issue here?

And lets be very clear here, even if Joe is not a dependent, he would still be entitled to see those records if the executors authorized him to do so. Just as Michael could authorize anyone to see his medical records, the executors have the same power now as his personal representatives. I don't think the purpose if HIPPA laws is to "protect" a father from finding out what happened to his son. Joe is not some fan, he's asking for the records of his *son*.

So IMO it's quite hipocritcal on the part of the executors to pretend that their hands are tied by the law and they're prevented from giving Joe any medical records, because they aren't. If they agree that Joe should be able to find out what happened, they could give him those records.
They don't want to.

 

[Ramona122003]

If he can establish thet he's a dependent of the estate, he IS entitled to file a civil suit.
If Joe gets his allowance, I think there would be no question anymore if he's entitled to medical records or file a lawsuit, as he will have established his legal standing as a dependent of the estate. Maybe that's the real issue here?

And lets be very clear here, even if Joe is not a dependent, he would be entitled to see those records if the executors authorized him to do so. Just as Michael could authorize anyone to see his medical records, the executors have the same power now as his personal representatives. I don't think the purpose if HIPPA laws is to "protect" a father from finding out what happened to his son. Joe is not some fan, he's asking for the records of his *son*.

So IMO it's quite hipocritcal on the part of the executors to pretend that their hands are tied by the law and they're prevented from giving Joe any medical records, because it doesn't. If they agree that Joe should be able to find out what happened, they could give him those records if they wanted to.
They don't want to.

Even if Joe get an allowance he still have right to the medical files. The only ones who can legally request them are Michael's mother, his kids, and the estate, no one else. If Michael's mom filed out an request, she would have standing since she is in the will.

So instead of blaming the estate for blocking Joe, why don't you blame Michael's mom for not spending the request herself or publicly support Joe. She said nothing and that is very telling. The estate can say no, but if Michael's mother wanted the records, they are not in position to block her because she has equal standing to them. Unlike Joe who has no standing.

 

[Butterfly26]

It allows him plenty of money, when his attorney, Brian Oxman, takes said medical papers on EVERY news program know to man!

Joe Jackson won't need an allowance, if Oxman get's his hands on those papers. Joe will be paid "hard-cold-cash," for allowing Oxman to reveal those medical papers on national television!

I'm not even sure if Joe Jackson knows which way is up and is only being lead by Oxman's words, i.e. "don't worry Joe, I'll take care of everything."

EXACTLY!!
OXHEAD is a joke and a nightmare of an attorney....what on earth is JOE or anyone doing with him????....ridiculous! Joe needs to exert all his attention to this case..WHAT is the LAPD doing negotiating with this murderer? They arrested MJ on the spot and took pleasure in handcuffing him for the world to see...it's all grotesque! WHY is he getting special privelages? Murray bail is a joke, MJ bail was 3M....what is really going on here.....it's all disgusting and disturbing! A complete MOCKERY!

 

[Rockin.]

Can someone answer me...?

All I want to know now is does this patient-doctor privilage technicality exist with Katherine too?

 

[marc_vivien]

Only the representative of the estate has the right to get the records and cite the patient-doctor privilege. So, Katherine could not to access the records, the administrators must agree.

Katherine and the kids could file a lawsuit because they are the heirs of the estate. Joe has no legal standing to get the records or to file a lawsuit. Even if he's dependent of the estate, to file a lawsuit will be complicated. Because the kids are the first in line.

 

[Ramona122003]

Can someone answer me...?

Do you mean who can have Katherine's records? Can you explain the question.

 

[Ramona122003]

Only the representative of the estate has the right to get the records and cite the patient-doctor privilege. So, Katherine could not to access the records, the administrators must agree.

Katherine and the kids could file a lawsuit because they are the heirs of the estate. Joe has no legal standing to get the records or to file a lawsuit. Even if he's dependent of the estate, to file a lawsuit will be complicated. Because the kids are the first in line.

Thanks for clearing that. I thought Katherine could request the medical files because she was a benefactor.

Well, I stand corrected.

 

[Asedora]

I ma really tired how TMZ gives information about Joe Jackson trying to find the truth about his son death.

This is why I provide this linke here:

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/entertainment/tittletattle/article_212282930.shtml

Michael Jackson Estate File Papers To Block Joe Jackson From Medical Records


Joe Jackson's attempt to get his hands on son Michael's medical records have been dealt a blow - lawyers for the King Of Pop's estate administrators have filed papers in Los Angeles to stop his investigation.

The Jackson family patriarch is convinced the Ucla Medical Center documents will help him determine if anyone was to blame for the Thriller icon's death last summer (Jun09) - and how much he should sue them for.

His lawyers filed papers in Los Angeles County Superior Court on Friday (29Jan10), demanding the release of medical records - but Joe Jackson is now facing a challenge from the men controlling his son's estate, who want to keep the documents from him.

 

[ivy]

All I want to know now is does this patient-doctor privilage technicality exist with Katherine too?

Only the representative of the estate has the right to get the records and cite the patient-doctor privilege. So, Katherine could not to access the records, the administrators must agree.

Katherine and the kids could file a lawsuit because they are the heirs of the estate. Joe has no legal standing to get the records or to file a lawsuit. Even if he's dependent of the estate, to file a lawsuit will be complicated. Because the kids are the first in line.

Do Privacy Rights Survive Death?

Yes. Under HIPAA, a patient's privacy rights survive death and last forever. We are not sure how much sense that makes, but that is what the rule provides. A deceased patient's legally authorized executor or administrator, or a person who is otherwise legally authorized to act on the behalf of the deceased patient or patient's estate, can exercise the privacy rights of a patient.

--------
If there wasn't an estate then the rights will be controlled by the spouse and/or next of kin.

Legally Katherine and the kids can file a wrongful death suit and ask for the documents. In that case either the estate or the courts must agree to give the documents to them.

 

[Autumn II]

Someone in the family MUST get the medical records if they are to file a wrongful death lawsuit. That "someone" would be Katherine, as an heir to the estate. We don't know if she has petitioned to get the records, or not. Regardless, no wrongful death suit would be filed until after Murray is arrested, and probably not until after a plea-bargain, or a trial. I fully expect Murray to plea-bargain, and avoid a trial. Then the only way the truth would come out would be from a civil suit. If one is filed, he could not avoid that and would have to testify. So we wait, and we watch. . . .

 

[jrsfan]

Someone in the family MUST get the medical records if they are to file a wrongful death lawsuit. That "someone" would be Katherine, as an heir to the estate. We don't know if she has petitioned to get the records, or not. Regardless, no wrongful death suit would be filed until after Murray is arrested, and probably not until after a plea-bargain, or a trial. I fully expect Murray to plea-bargain, and avoid a trial. Then the only way the truth would come out would be from a civil suit. If one is filed, he could not avoid that and would have to testify. So we wait, and we watch. . . .

I think the problem for Katherine & the kids is they have to work with the estate - the kids have their own lawyer & I saw her on TV with Weitzman & to me they are on the same side. Kat does not want to jeopardize her custody with those kids or lose her being an heir. This is why Joe needs to be a dependent, so he can sue - Weitzman, Branca wants to shut it all down, either they are aligned with AEG or there is something else they need to cover-up.

I fully expect Murray to plea bargain too.

 

[Ramona122003]

I think the problem for Katherine & the kids is they have to work with the estate - the kids have their own lawyer & I saw her on TV with Weitzman & to me they are on the same side. Kat does not want to jeopardize her custody with those kids or lose her being an heir. This is why Joe needs to be a dependent, so he can sue - Weitzman, Branca wants to shut it all down, either they are aligned with AEG or there is something else they need to cover-up.

I fully expect Murray to plea bargain too.

Not true,

Asking for medical files or making a wrongful death suite would not had jeopardize her custody with those kids or lose her being an heir. She only endanger he place in the will if she challenges it. Asking for Michael's medical files or wanted to sue does nothing that goes against the will.

 

[Asedora]

Just read on Karen FB board she syas we have to call LAPD and say that protest is going to happen if they do not arrest Dr. Murray. Juts letting you know guys.

 

[jrsfan]

Not true,

Asking for medical files or making a wrongful death suite would not had jeopardize her custody with those kids or lose her being an heir. She only endanger he place in the will if she challenges it. Asking for Michael's medical files or wanted to sue does nothing that goes against the will.

Katherine has to have permission from the 'estate' to get that. She has to work with the children's lawyer. I think there is alot going on behind the scenes that we are not aware of, DR is certainly a factor too. It appears to me that Weitzman does not want an investigation.

 

[marc_vivien]

to me, it's important to be patient. wait the criminal trial. and after, you can sue Murray. It's a easier way to win.

If you file a civil llawsuit before the criminal trial, the investigation could be jeopardized

 

[jrsfan]

Where am I wrong? Had MJ been declared dead at ohm, the police would have sealed the house and go through t with a fine toothed comb before opening it again to the family.

In the evening of june 25th, lots of people went to the house to move things....therefore evidence is not reliable.

Latoya and her boyfriend claiming to have found tar heroin in the house...which turns out to be false.

The house would not have been turned over to the family for days. we don't know what they took away, if evidence was moved...





He never received support directly from MJ.

The police were on the scene the day MJ died. They were contacted at 1pm according to this article & from reading it they did do an investigation. I think the police if they are invited in, they can seize items of evidence without a search warrant. So what they took that first day, we don't know. I do remember seeing a clip of an officer oustide the home that day. I hope they did a good job. Supposedly according to Klein, Toya did stay the first 2 nights at the house.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2009/06/michael_jackson_rushed_to_hosp.html
note the time on this article must be EST

Update 8:53 PM Greg Strank, a detective with Los Angeles Police Department's robbery and homicide unit, told journalists gathered outside Michael Jackson's house that the media shouldn't read anything significant into officers from his unit being on the scene. "We investigate deaths every day," he said, adding that the high profile nature of the case led the the LAPD chief to have his unit secure the scene and conduct an investigation. He wouldn't answer questions beyond the time the police were notified, at about 1:00 PM Los Angeles time, and the time the cultural icon was pronounced dead, 2:30 PM Los Angeles time.

 

[Autumn II]

to me, it's important to be patient. wait the criminal trial. and after, you can sue Murray. It's a easier way to win.

If you file a civil llawsuit before the criminal trial, the investigation could be jeopardized

I highly doubt that anyone would file a civil lawsuit before "the trial." I also HIGHLY doubt that there will be a trial. That's why I hope that a civil suit goes forward, after Murray pleads-out. Doesn't matter if he doesn't have any money. The purpose would be to get at the truth. If possible.

 

[jrsfan]

to me, it's important to be patient. wait the criminal trial. and after, you can sue Murray. It's a easier way to win.

If you file a civil llawsuit before the criminal trial, the investigation could be jeopardized

They can do the filing & it doesn't jeopardize anything. Civil cases can take years.

There are also timing issues - I know in the Pellicano case he was convicted in Aug. 2008 for wiretapping, he along with others(Fields, Ovitz, etc) is being sued by Busch & others after the conviction, lawyers filed delay after delay & it is now being dismissed for being too late because they waited too long (filed right after the conviction). I am sure that will be appealed but civil cases take years & judgements can be appealed such as what happened with Geragos & Xtrajet with the illegal taping of MJ which now will be retried.

Lawyers have all kinds of tricks. Murrays will too.

 

[Topflux]

Right. Why did Joe even make this? Is he out of money or what? As "Michael Jackson"'s father I think it would be easy to make money by himself if he wanted to..