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Michael - HIS family, the fans...the real deal

So I am guessing that if you don't go around saying I love you everyday or hug a person everyday then you don't love them.. I guess I don't love my parents, bcuz I am not a touchy feely person and I don't go around saying I love you on a daily or weekly basis, however my parents know that I love them..

If you all were MJ's friends and u guys were chillin' at his house and Joe came over, you would actually disrespect his father right there in his face?? I pray you all wouldn't do it but then again if you write that you can't stand the man then you should be able to tell him to his face infront of MJ that you can't stand him..

just my 2 cents.. but I respect all of your answers..:wub:
 
We can complain of all the bad things Joe has done. But we still have to show respect.
Joe is Someone's son, Someone's Father, Someone's Husband, Someone's Grandfather, Someone's Uncle, the list goes on...One may not hurt Joe by their hateful comments, but you may be hurting other people who are family to this man.
 
I agree with MichaelYoureAStud

Michael gave respect to everyone. Joe on the other hand demanded respect and when he didn't get it he didn't give it. You don't DEMAND respect. You all can think what you want about Mr.Bad ass Jackson but he aint nothing to respect. Hes running his crazy mouth and feeding the media fire. To me that shows how much he respected Michael.
 
#1MJstan said:
So I am guessing that if you don't go around saying I love you everyday or hug a person everyday then you don't love them.. I guess I don't love my parents, bcuz I am not a touchy feely person and I don't go around saying I love you on a daily or weekly basis, however my parents know that I love them..

If you all were MJ's friends and u guys were chillin' at his house and Joe came over, you would actually disrespect his father right there in his face?? I pray you all wouldn't do it but then again if you write that you can't stand the man then you should be able to tell him to his face infront of MJ that you can't stand him..

just my 2 cents.. but I respect all of your answers..:wub:
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lol that made me giggle :lol:
 
MichaelYoureAStud said:
Well, like Michael said *Respects not given/it's earned*
Joe ain't earned my respect.
Like I said, I ain't got no problem telling Joe in front of Michael how I feel about him.
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And I respect you for saying u wld do it in front of MJ, bcuz I believe some ppl on here wldn't.. All I can say is that I wouldn't tell one of my friend's parent that I didn't like them to their face especially when they did nothing to me, and that the issue is a family issue it doesn't have anything to do with me.. but Kudos to you my friend.. You remind me of my mom, don't bite your tongue for nobody.. lol:cheeky:
 
No, Michael was no perfect angel. He had/has a beautiful soul, but certainly no angel. And part of the reason I don't post much on these forums are the thick fans who believe he is. Did you guys hear the phone conversations where he was cussing and talking naughty? Yeah. Those.

But I think you are wrong about Michael simply being spanked, and that the teasing may have been a taste of his own medicine. I'm gonna refer to the phone conversations again. He didn't know they were being recorded, and I have no reason to believe that what he was saying was untrue. Joseph used to make Michael feel ashamed of being black, and said he wasn't his kid because of his wide nose. This is more than harmless teasing. Also in the conversations, Michael said Joseph almost broke his arm, knocked him nearly unconsious, and beat him and threw him in the basement if he sang the wrong note or missed a step. This was more than spanking a kid who had a lot of spunk. This was abuse, and joseph was/is a monster. There is nothing anyone can say to justify Joseph's behavior.

Sure this doesn't take all the responsibilty from michael, especially as an adult who is responsible for healing from the past, and making good decisions about the present and future. But we must recognize what Michael really went through.
 
MichaelYoureAStud said:
Well, like Michael said *Respects not given/it's earned*
Joe ain't earned my respect.
Like I said, I ain't got no problem telling Joe in front of Michael how I feel about him.
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I'm quoting this post but I'm writing to many of you who feels like this poster does.

I want to ask you - What makes you feel that you have the right to tell Joe how you feel about him? What makes you think that Michael would have accepted that you told his dad how you disliked him?

Michael would want us to leave his family alone. He never asked his fans for support in these matters. These are privat matters, and we are not ment to take any parties in this families matters.

vjbrown - whats this interview you are talking about? I havent seen it.
 
vjbrown said:
No, Michael was no perfect angel. He had/has a beautiful soul, but certainly no angel. And part of the reason I don't post much on these forums are the thick fans who believe he is. Did you guys hear the phone conversations where he was cussing and talking naughty? Yeah. Those.

But I think you are wrong about Michael simply being spanked, and that the teasing may have been a taste of his own medicine. I'm gonna refer to the phone conversations again. He didn't know they were being recorded, and I have no reason to believe that what he was saying was untrue. Joseph used to make Michael feel ashamed of being black, and said he wasn't his kid because of his wide nose. This is more than harmless teasing. Also in the conversations, Michael said Joseph almost broke his arm, knocked him nearly unconsious, and beat him and threw him in the basement if he sang the wrong note or missed a step. This was more than spanking a kid who had a lot of spunk. This was abuse, and joseph was/is a monster. There is nothing anyone can say to justify Joseph's behavior.

Sure this doesn't take all the responsibilty from michael, especially as an adult who is responsible for healing from the past, and making good decisions about the present and future. But we must recognize what Michael really went through.
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what does the above underlined have to do with anything? lol That phone conversation shouldn't have been made public for any reason. That conversation showed that Michael was MAN :bugeyed omg! i cant believe it!
 
Well this is the way I look at it:
When he hurt Michael, he hurt me too.
Maybe I sound like a nut.

I can't listen to that part of the Oxford speech.
Maybe it's cause I've been there with my own parents.
It was just easier for me to tell my parents to go to hell. I didn't have to do it in the public eye.
On the saying it to his face. If you have the balls to say it here, why not say it to his face?
Everything I say on here, I'd say to his and Michael's face. Don't make me brave, maybe a bit stupid.
 
Some of you all acting like Katherine was a single parent.. Joe helped raised them kids and they all turned out fine.. Joe wasn't the only stage parent, Katherine was right there, if she didn't agree with something she spoke up, and if she agreed with Joe she kept quiet. Joe kept the money in the family as much as he could, he put his girls in the Jacksons Show.. Um the way some of you talking MJ hated being onstage, however when he fired Joe from being his manager he could've stopped singing and dancing and sat on his ass for the rest of his life, MJ chose to continue singing.. MJ probably could've sabatoged his own audition for Motown if he didn't really want too become a star
 
Never heard the phone conversations because some shit is just private IMO. Again, this is also my opinion, I DO believe Joe was mad extra in some if not most of the stuff he did to Michael. My outlook is, I respect Michael, ultimately, with the utmost respect, therefore I (again this is just me) I will not disrespect his family because I feel that I'm disrespecting him if I do so, that's his blood, his roots, his mama'nem, nah, I won't be disrespecting them just for the hell of it. We are all entitled to our own opinions though, and I enjoy reading other's outlook especially if they're valid. :)
 
jamgirl86 said:
What someone else said

Michael had a gift for embellishment and I think we all know that, but I don’t think he lied about his father being more of a physical disciplinarian then he would have liked (It's an understatement... I know). Someone being abusive is not limited to them hitting or being overtly verbally abusive. Belittling, being overly critical, or being insensitive towards someone can have just as much impact as an actual bruise if the person on the receiving end is sensitive enough. I think Joe noticed Michael’s sensitive and giving nature early on and probably tried to toughen him up”which only A made things worse and B drove a wedge between them. The truth is most likely somewhere in the middle and I think that Michael’s version of things might have been tempered with hard feelings towards Joe because of other things: his unfaithfulness to Katherine, his past controlling behavior over the family, and their shared stubbornness. Once you say some of the things that Michael has said about Joe it is a little hard to take them back regardless of if they were 100% true or exaggerated a little. Michael tried on several occasions to distance himself from the severity of what he said and reiterate that all that was in the past, but people always harped on it and sometimes he seemed to just go along with it. I'm sure Joe and Michael loved each other, and after Michael became a father and was able to put it all in perspective that helped bring them closer together. I try not to demonize Joe because while he doesn't come across as someone that wears their hearts on their sleeves I believe that he does care about his family. He just really comes across badly in the media because he's kind of direct and his personality is like "and what?"”
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This I agree with 100%... and I'll step out of this thread now and continue lurking...
 
#1MJstan said:
Some of you all acting like Katherine was a single parent.. Joe helped raised them kids and they all turned out fine.. Joe wasn't the only stage parent, Katherine was right there, if she didn't agree with something she spoke up, and if she agreed with Joe she kept quiet. Joe kept the money in the family as much as he could, he put his girls in the Jacksons Show.. Um the way some of you talking MJ hated being onstage, however when he fired Joe from being his manager he could've stopped singing and dancing and sat on his ass for the rest of his life, MJ chose to continue singing.. MJ probably could've sabatoged his own audition for Motown if he didn't really want too become a star
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So him cheating on Mrs.Jackson doesnt mean sh!t? Joe in your eyes could do no wrong is that what your saying? hmm... they turned out fine because of their MOTHER Joe worked them far to hard you know that. There wouldnt be a "Jackson's An American Dream" movie without some truth to it.
 
I love and respect Katherine.
She was a wonderful and has always shown respect towards others.
I know she helped to raise Michael.
Screw it.
Michael, Katherine and all his children have my love and respect. Joe, stay in the basement.

I also know Michael could have stopped singing at any point.
 
MJJ7777 said:
As much as I love Michael as a fan, I know Joe loved him more. We as fans tend to pick and choose the positive aspects of MJ and we create our own picture of him. The family dealt with the real MJ I'm sure we'll never know , both the positive and negative aspects, and despite everything , the rivalry, and everything else, They Love him and he Loves them ( I cant yet speak of MJ in the past tense) . No matter what.
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True.

Michael had a FAMILY.....like we all do...

They fight, they make up, they love, they hate.
 
MichaelYoureAStud said:
Maybe it's cause I've been there with my own parents.
It was just easier for me to tell my parents to go to hell.
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This statement here makes me realize that you carry a lot of pain inside.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but I'm positive Michael would never say something like that (in so much words anyway) to Kat OR Joe.

Hell, neither would I....I respect my parents too much. I'd rather avoid them than let it go there.

But that's just me....
 
#1MJstan said:
Everyone has their own views on abuse.. Some say putting your child in timeout is abuse, others say raising your voice even slightly is abuse.. The list goes on... As for using a whip on them, I really do believe that is not to be taken literally, me saying I got a whipping could imply that I got whipped with a whip, even though it may have been with a switch or my mom's hand on my bottom..

I just have a problem with ppl calling the man scum.. well that piece of scum created MJ. We have ppl on here that don't agree with Rebbie helping her mom raise the kids, now I want to know WHAT IN THE HELL HAS REBBIE EVER DONE TO WARRANT SUCH DISLIKE?? Come one now this is REbbie, she married at 18, popped out a few babies and lived a rather quiet life to the a military guy.. Some of the ppl here will never be happy with the Jacksons but I bet if our family was put on display, ppl wouldn't like our neither.. Can't win for losing..
We don't like Joe, don't like the religion Mrs. Jackson practices, we don't like Blanket having long hair, we don't like Rebbie taking them to service, we don't like Kai bcuz she showed some cards the kids made FOR HER, we don't like the fact the kids were going out without MJ, we probably wouldn't like what the kids got to eat for breakfast, or possible schools they could be going to.. smh...
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:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:
 
Spider-Man said:
Nice post jamgirl. :)

I hear what your saying: Joe ain't no angel, but that ain't no reason to demonize the man either. He made mistakes, just like the rest of us. And I agree with the whole softie thing. Lots of the older folks get real soft when they older. My grandpa, who is about Joe's age, will still mess you up if you really git him mad, but he isn't as prone to anger as he used to be.

And Mike was a terrorizer when he was a kid; he was a brat. Now no one has actually called him a brat from what I can recall, but from the stories by Smokey and the rest of the old Motown folks Michael was a brat. He was also a clown, and a showman, etc. We all got different elements to our personalities. Regarding the whole nicknames thing, that's something I've thought alot about over the years, and my best answer to that is that Mike was sensitive. I got a brother like that: he'll talk all kinds of mess, but the minute you git him he gets all sad. Its cuz he's insecure, it was probably that way with Mike too.

Now, Joe making fun of Mike is different than siblings doing to each other, and seeing as how they had a ruff relationship to begin with, its kinda cruel. That is just straight up uncalled for and unneccesary. I think the same sort of thing applies to the extent of abuse. Joe messed all them kids up, but it affected Mike the most cuz he sensitive.

In the end, Joe is still Mike's dad, and though I don't agree with alot of teh things he did/has done, I respect the guy. I feel Mike's pain concerning his dad. It takes a helluvalot to make a kid absolutely hate their parent, and I don't think Mike hated him(he said just as much himself). He just wanted to be treated as a son.

@Jamgirl:And, girl, I love bebe's kids. Now, I know you ghetto.:D
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U know it. Nothin' but Love :cheers:
 
A_Powerful_Mind said:
This statement here makes me realize that you carry a lot of pain inside.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but I'm positive Michael would never say something like that (in so much words anyway) to Kat OR Joe.

Hell, neither would I....I respect my parents too much. I'd rather avoid them than let it go there.

But that's just me....
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Well a person can only take so much.

I told them off. I'm glad I did. I won't let anyone put a hand on me.

Michael didn't want to go there. Maybe from fear, maybe respect. We don't know.
 
GinnyJackson said:
So him cheating on Mrs.Jackson doesnt mean sh!t? Joe in your eyes could do no wrong is that what your saying? hmm... they turned out fine because of their MOTHER Joe worked them far to hard you know that. There wouldnt be a "Jackson's An American Dream" movie without some truth to it.
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Whoa whoa stop the train cuz someone has put it off track, if I thought that was cool I would've said so.. I don't recall saying Joe Jackson was perfect and never did anything wrong.. None of those Jacksons are perfect just like none of my family is perfect, but I would still say I turned out ok.. Him cheating on her wasn't cool but hey she CHOSE to stay. So u should be asking Mrs. Jackson if cheating is ok..

I am saying that I agree with Jamgirl and others when they said How can we respect MJ and yet totally disrespect his family.. I am sure we can find dirt on Mrs. Jackson as well but that is wldn't be necessary..

Some of you are painting MJ as a saint.... anyway, I may not agree with how you all call him some vicious names but I still luv ya none the less:wub:
 
#1MJstan said:
Everyone has their own views on abuse.. Some say putting your child in timeout is abuse, others say raising your voice even slightly is abuse.. The list goes on... As for using a whip on them, I really do believe that is not to be taken literally, me saying I got a whipping could imply that I got whipped with a whip, even though it may have been with a switch or my mom's hand on my bottom..

I just have a problem with ppl calling the man scum.. well that piece of scum created MJ. We have ppl on here that don't agree with Rebbie helping her mom raise the kids, now I want to know WHAT IN THE HELL HAS REBBIE EVER DONE TO WARRANT SUCH DISLIKE?? Come one now this is REbbie, she married at 18, popped out a few babies and lived a rather quiet life to the a military guy.. Some of the ppl here will never be happy with the Jacksons but I bet if our family was put on display, ppl wouldn't like our neither.. Can't win for losing..
We don't like Joe, don't like the religion Mrs. Jackson practices, we don't like Blanket having long hair, we don't like Rebbie taking them to service, we don't like Kai bcuz she showed some cards the kids made FOR HER, we don't like the fact the kids were going out without MJ, we probably wouldn't like what the kids got to eat for breakfast, or possible schools they could be going to.. smh...
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Yupp!!
 
#1MJstan said:
Everyone has their own views on abuse.. Some say putting your child in timeout is abuse, others say raising your voice even slightly is abuse.. The list goes on... As for using a whip on them, I really do believe that is not to be taken literally, me saying I got a whipping could imply that I got whipped with a whip, even though it may have been with a switch or my mom's hand on my bottom..

I just have a problem with ppl calling the man scum.. well that piece of scum created MJ. We have ppl on here that don't agree with Rebbie helping her mom raise the kids, now I want to know WHAT IN THE HELL HAS REBBIE EVER DONE TO WARRANT SUCH DISLIKE?? Come one now this is REbbie, she married at 18, popped out a few babies and lived a rather quiet life to the a military guy.. Some of the ppl here will never be happy with the Jacksons but I bet if our family was put on display, ppl wouldn't like our neither.. Can't win for losing..
We don't like Joe, don't like the religion Mrs. Jackson practices, we don't like Blanket having long hair, we don't like Rebbie taking them to service, we don't like Kai bcuz she showed some cards the kids made FOR HER, we don't like the fact the kids were going out without MJ, we probably wouldn't like what the kids got to eat for breakfast, or possible schools they could be going to.. smh...
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I like Rebbie... :yes:

Sorry.. Back to lurking.. :ph34r:
 
A_Powerful_Mind said:
Let's try not to confuse SYMPATHY and EMPATHY here.

I certainly don't feel sorry for Joe because he was obviously a a bit more harsh and way under affectionate than he should have been when he was bringing up his kids.

However I can understand under the circumstances why he might have been that way.

To add my 2 extra cents here....

We can not compartmentalize and try to separate everything as we please.

Michael was the SUM TOTAL of his experiences with Joe, Kat, brothers, sisters, kids, friends, fans and whoever and whatever else he came into contact with over the course of his life.

To reject any part of that would be to change the course of history!

I think what is important to remember here is that the Michael Jackson we all know and love was not only a product of the GOOD things that happened to him in his life but also the BAD things as well.
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Yes he was...he was a part of ALL of his family...he was part Joe and part Katherine.

MJJ7777 said:
I agree, but he still deserves some degree of respect, I think thats the message of this thread. Hatred is not acceptable, especially if one knows little to nothing of someone. Im not excusing Joe, but I dont think he knows how to express himself properly and as we would like. Thats why I too think he should keep silent more often for his own good and that of the family.
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Yes, he should, the man feels he needs to defend himself, but he isn't articulate, so it comes off as abrasive and non nonsensical when it really isn't


#1MJstan said:
I agree with you Chichi, Joe can say some really dumb shit at times, and it makes ya want to grab his ass off tv.. He reminds me of my great Unce Joseph (yes how ironic) if u let him have the floor no telling what the hell he wld say.. However I give him credit for being able to say the things the other family members probably want to say, however Joe just needs to learn to put his words together better..lol..
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TRUE!!

#1MJstan said:
Yes Jamgirl has solidified her ghettoness with the mentioning of Bebe's kids.. lmaooo.
I like that movie though..
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LOL. :cheers:
MJJ7777 said:
This issue seems to be more of a culture-clash. We simply dont understand each other.
One side pleads for respect, while the other pleads for hate.
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And that is the dilemma

Safira said:
I agree with the person who posted this in another thread.

However - I do think that spanking is kind of abuse, but ofcourse it's always depending on the situation.. But if someone touched my child, or a child near me - I would'nt let that happen!.. But in my country it's actually illegal to spank your children..


But yes - Everything else that he writes I totally agree on! Read it!
I can't even leave any comments because everything was said!

If you love and respect Michael, then you gotta love and respect his mom and dad too. Both of them. THEY gave him life, THEY gave him shelter and food, THEY raised him, THEY made him happy and satisfied with his life.

When I see Joe, I see a good man. A man who wants to fullfill his role in the family. A man who wants to be the solid rock. The leader that keeps the unit working. It was'nt easy. There where no time for hollydays when they had all these mouths to feed and he was the only one working (which was normal at that time remember..).

And you don't even need to look far to get your proof that this family worked out fine and that the mother and father was good parrents: Just look at how the children grew up to be. Strong, kind, intelligent, loving, talented people. It's not only Michael who was that sort of good person.
They where all raised like that.
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True. All of them are like that.

Hachi said:
I dont think anyone said that michael wasn't telling the truth, the point of this thread was point out the blatant disrespect for Michaels family, how some of you can claim to love Michael yet turn around and be so disrespectful to people you know very little if ANYTHING about is beyond me.
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:yes:

#1MJstan said:
So I am guessing that if you don't go around saying I love you everyday or hug a person everyday then you don't love them.. I guess I don't love my parents, bcuz I am not a touchy feely person and I don't go around saying I love you on a daily or weekly basis, however my parents know that I love them..

If you all were MJ's friends and u guys were chillin' at his house and Joe came over, you would actually disrespect his father right there in his face?? I pray you all wouldn't do it but then again if you write that you can't stand the man then you should be able to tell him to his face infront of MJ that you can't stand him..

just my 2 cents.. but I respect all of your answers..:wub:
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LOLOLOL!

MJJ7777 said:
We can complain of all the bad things Joe has done. But we still have to show respect.
Joe is Someone's son, Someone's Father, Someone's Husband, Someone's Grandfather, Someone's Uncle, the list goes on...One may not hurt Joe by their hateful comments, but you may be hurting other people who are family to this man.
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U are hurting his family more by the comments...so true


#1MJstan said:
Some of you all acting like Katherine was a single parent.. Joe helped raised them kids and they all turned out fine.. Joe wasn't the only stage parent, Katherine was right there, if she didn't agree with something she spoke up, and if she agreed with Joe she kept quiet. Joe kept the money in the family as much as he could, he put his girls in the Jacksons Show.. Um the way some of you talking MJ hated being onstage, however when he fired Joe from being his manager he could've stopped singing and dancing and sat on his ass for the rest of his life, MJ chose to continue singing.. MJ probably could've sabatoged his own audition for Motown if he didn't really want too become a star
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People forgot Katherine said she spanked Michael too. -_-

Serenity3104 said:
Never heard the phone conversations because some shit is just private IMO. Again, this is also my opinion, I DO believe Joe was mad extra in some if not most of the stuff he did to Michael. My outlook is, I respect Michael, ultimately, with the utmost respect, therefore I (again this is just me) I will not disrespect his family because I feel that I'm disrespecting him if I do so, that's his blood, his roots, his mama'nem, nah, I won't be disrespecting them just for the hell of it. We are all entitled to our own opinions though, and I enjoy reading other's outlook especially if they're valid. :)
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I don't wanna hear private conversations...


A_Powerful_Mind said:
This statement here makes me realize that you carry a lot of pain inside.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but I'm positive Michael would never say something like that (in so much words anyway) to Kat OR Joe.

Hell, neither would I....I respect my parents too much. I'd rather avoid them than let it go there.

But that's just me....
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:yes:

#1MJstan said:
Whoa whoa stop the train cuz someone has put it off track, if I thought that was cool I would've said so.. I don't recall saying Joe Jackson was perfect and never did anything wrong.. None of those Jacksons are perfect just like none of my family is perfect, but I would still say I turned out ok.. Him cheating on her wasn't cool but hey she CHOSE to stay. So u should be asking Mrs. Jackson if cheating is ok..

I am saying that I agree with Jamgirl and others when they said How can we respect MJ and yet totally disrespect his family.. I am sure we can find dirt on Mrs. Jackson as well but that is wldn't be necessary..

Some of you are painting MJ as a saint.... anyway, I may not agree with how you all call him some vicious names but I still luv ya none the less:wub:
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I totally agree with you here.

100%

Mrs. Jackson was so obviously pained in that interview with Geraldo Rivera and she called all the Joe bashing 'crap'
 
this thread and forum needs a middle ground ... it aint strictly hate and love people. This aint big brother and we are not up for evicition. They are no have nots. Bring some reality into this and take a little from the other side and meet in the middle.
 
MJJChichi said:
this thread and forum needs a middle ground ... it aint strictly hate and love people. This aint big brother and we are not up for evicition. They are no have nots. Bring some reality into this and take a little from the other side and meet in the middle.
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:yes:
 
lol I don't think Janet minded being called Dunk. She mentions it herself in an interlude on one of her cds and she's laughing whilst she's saying it. Why would she tell the world her nickname if it upset her? lol

Besides, I don't think you can compare sibling banter and play fighting and teasing to a parent doing that to their child. A parental figure is supposed to lead by example, and a child will take everything to heart that an adult says to them because the parent is older and in a position of authority. Kids will take on the views of their parents when they are young because they don't know what else to think. To compare an adult calling a child 'big nose' etc, creating deep insecurity issues, to a kid calling his sister 'Dunk', which she recalls with fondness (so there was obviously no malicious intent in it) is taking it a bit far IMO.

For example I can't even remember any names my brothers or sister called me (but I know there were many) but every single time my mum would pick at my flaws or when one idiotic teacher of mine made me feel stupid for getting a question wrong I remember it like it was yesterday. When one kid says something to another kid, maybe they'll fall out and not speak but they'll go back to normal within a few days. A 10 yr old doesn't have the option to fall out with their parent so it will only build up a resentment.
 
I feel you Chichi, now cookout @Jamgirl's house.. I will bring the margaritas.. U know how to make 'tata salad@Jamgirl.. lmaooooo

Oh I am glad we can agree to disagree.. u guys are the cutest...
 
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