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Michael - HIS family, the fans...the real deal

Remember not to be so caught up in Michael to badmouth his family. That's in bad form. If you were truly his fans
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Whatever goes on with Joe Jackson is simply not our call. But to try to assert what a "true fan"'s opinion must be is also bad form.
 
MJJ7777 said:
But Micheal didnt keep Grandpa away from the kids, why should we?

Three weeks before MJ's passing , the entire family including the kids celebrated their grandparents anniversary, I dont think MJ kept a restraining order against Joe. My 2 cents.
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Y should fans dictate who should be near MICHAEL's kids, who he left with his mother.

U r right, the kids know and love Joe according to Katherine.

That is enough!
 
What someone else said

Michael had a gift for embellishment and I think we all know that, but I don’t think he lied about his father being more of a physical disciplinarian then he would have liked (It's an understatement... I know). Someone being abusive is not limited to them hitting or being overtly verbally abusive. Belittling, being overly critical, or being insensitive towards someone can have just as much impact as an actual bruise if the person on the receiving end is sensitive enough. I think Joe noticed Michael’s sensitive and giving nature early on and probably tried to toughen him up”which only A made things worse and B drove a wedge between them. The truth is most likely somewhere in the middle and I think that Michael’s version of things might have been tempered with hard feelings towards Joe because of other things: his unfaithfulness to Katherine, his past controlling behavior over the family, and their shared stubbornness. Once you say some of the things that Michael has said about Joe it is a little hard to take them back regardless of if they were 100% true or exaggerated a little. Michael tried on several occasions to distance himself from the severity of what he said and reiterate that all that was in the past, but people always harped on it and sometimes he seemed to just go along with it. I'm sure Joe and Michael loved each other, and after Michael became a father and was able to put it all in perspective that helped bring them closer together. I try not to demonize Joe because while he doesn't come across as someone that wears their hearts on their sleeves I believe that he does care about his family. He just really comes across badly in the media because he's kind of direct and his personality is like "and what?"”
 
MJJChichi said:
yall got to be out yo mind to defend JOE Jackson on parenting issues ... OUT YO MINDS. Fine, have some compassion for the old man ... sure, give him credit for pushing the boys to stardom ... Of course, those boys were all talented and something may never have happened, without his vision and drive for their future.

Dude was trying to make a promo at his son's Memorial...every time he is on TV he is pushing some future money scheme...or smiling like an evil cartoon cat talking about his grandchildren, the Jackson Three. Keep Grandpa away from the kids :zformation:

Sympathy for Joe Jackson is overly generous and a little suspect.
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I don't think anyone is saying "ohhh poor poor Joe, look what he has to go through...boohoo" at least I'm not, and I'm not getting that sentiment in this thread. I DO, however, have a dislike for the amount of disrespect shown to Michael's family, and believe me when I say he's (Joe) not the only one getting the disrespect. I just can't fathom loving the MAN (Michael) and not at least having respect enough to not badmouth his fam (even if you can't stand him/them). Do you really think that someone would be able to walk up to Michael and blatantly say your daddy ain't shit and it be accepted? Truth is, I can't positively say that it wouldn't be accepted but I HIGHLY doubt it. My moms always said if you don't have anything good to say don't say it at all, that's just what I do, but no one is having a piss poor pity party for Joe, but it's time out for badmouthing him. We lost Michael as fans, he meant a lot to us, I mourn him like I lost a brother but Joe lost his SON, regardless of what he does that is still a FACT and I do feel some type of way about people blatantly disrespecting Mike's family.


Again, this is all my opinion.
 
no applause

how do we know? you just compare him with a child who does not know his/her borders, and i am very sure, MJ did know them. JJ did not beat his kids, he used a whip. Great, eh?

you write "Some kids don't behave & spanking is not necessarily abuse." and I must say, WRONG, it IS! That is what Michael has teached all his life.

Now -- regarding the overall subject you talking about -- Joe Jackson and what opinion some of us here on board have. I am standing on your side.

Joe has grown up in a way that teached him that it is okay to use physical violence to his children. I am glad that we now know that this is not necessary. The only thing you need to do is to show borders, and be consistent! (which is the difficult part, speaking from experience)

So, well, Michael has forgiven his father, which i heard when i listened to his Oxford speech. So I can do that too. I mean... why should I be angry if he was not any more?

just my 2 cents
 
MJJChichi said:
yall got to be out yo mind to defend JOE Jackson on parenting issues ... OUT YO MINDS. Fine, have some compassion for the old man ... sure, give him credit for pushing the boys to stardom ... Of course, those boys were all talented and something may never have happened, without his vision and drive for their future.

Dude was trying to make a promo at his son's Memorial...every time he is on TV he is pushing some future money scheme...or smiling like an evil cartoon cat talking about his grandchildren, the Jackson Three. Keep Grandpa away from the kids :zformation:

Sympathy for Joe Jackson is overly generous and a little suspect.
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Not about sympathy it's about giving the man we love father some kind so respect.
I know not everyone will agree with each other about Joe, and I am not here to claim him the World's Best Dad, but he is still MJ'S FATHER.
MJ never went on tv and said I HOPE JOE GOES TO HELL.. or HAS TMZ FOUND A TRO FILED BY MJ AGAINST JOE.. nope..

We have dogged out everyone on here that says something we didn't like about MJ even if it may be true, and we don't like it when someone talks about Prince, Paris, and Blanket's father, yet it's ok if someone talks about their grandfather aka MICHAEL'S FATHER.. I just don't get it.

Had Joe stayed quiet, ppl would complain, he decided to say something ppl complained.. and I don't care what u all say, Joe made some interesting points when he was on LKL..
It's not ok for Joe to say MJ's death is foulplay, yet as soon as we on MJJC heard it, we began screaming it to the top of our lungs, and he ain't related to none of us..
 
Serenity3104 said:
I don't think anyone is saying "ohhh poor poor Joe, look what he has to go through...boohoo" at least I'm not, and I'm not getting that sentiment in this thread. I DO, however, have a dislike for the amount of disrespect shown to Michael's family, and believe me when I say he's (Joe) not the only one getting the disrespect. I just can't fathom loving the MAN (Michael) and not at least having respect enough to not badmouth his fam (even if you can't stand him/them). Do you really think that someone would be able to walk up to Michael and blatantly say your daddy ain't shit and it be accepted? Truth is, I can't positively say that it wouldn't be accepted but I HIGHLY doubt it. My moms always said if you don't have anything good to say don't say it at all, that's just what I do, but no one is have a piss poor pity party for Joe, but it's time out for badmouthing him. We lost Michael as fans, he meant a lot to us, I mourn him like I lost a brother but Joe lost his SON, regardless of what he does that is still a FACT and I do feel some type of way about people blatantly disrespecting Mike's family.


Again, this is all my opinion.
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I agree with you. Not that we love Joe but I won't be disrespecting him and being all nasty to the man....w/o Joe there would NVER have been a Michael (LITERALLY!!!)
 
I agree we shouldnt all hate on Joe..I think some of the things that have been highlighted that he said or did since michael died may have been done through grief in that he doesnt know how to act, maybe he cant accept michael is gone so he is hiding his grief behind work ideas/proposals.
This is what I think anyway
 
#1MJstan said:
Not about sympathy it's about giving the man we love father some kind so respect.
I know not everyone will agree with each other about Joe, and I am not here to claim him the World's Best Dad, but he is still MJ'S FATHER.
MJ never went on tv and said I HOPE JOE GOES TO HELL.. or HAS TMZ FOUND A TRO FILED BY MJ AGAINST JOE.. nope..

We have dogged out everyone on here that says something we didn't like about MJ even if it may be true, and we don't like it when someone talks about Prince, Paris, and Blanket's father, yet it's ok if someone talks about their grandfather aka MICHAEL'S FATHER.. I just don't get it.

Had Joe stayed quiet, ppl would complain, he decided to say something ppl complained.. and I don't care what u all say, Joe made some interesting points when he was on LKL..
It's not ok for Joe to say MJ's death is foulplay, yet as soon as we on MJJC heard it, we began screaming it to the top of our lungs, and he ain't related to none of us..
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Preach the word! Preach it!
 
bluemoonchild said:
no applause

how do we know? you just compare him with a child who does not know his/her borders, and i am very sure, MJ did know them. JJ did not beat his kids, he used a whip. Great, eh?

you write "Some kids don't behave & spanking is not necessarily abuse." and I must say, WRONG, it IS! That is what Michael has teached all his life.

Now -- regarding the overall subject you talking about -- Joe Jackson and what opinion some of us here on board have. I am standing on your side.

Joe has grown up in a way that teached him that it is okay to use physical violence to his children. I am glad that we now know that this is not necessary. The only thing you need to do is to show borders, and be consistent! (which is the difficult part, speaking from experience)

So, well, Michael has forgiven his father, which i heard when i listened to his Oxford speech. So I can do that too. I mean... why should I be angry if he was not any more?

just my 2 cents
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I believe in corporal punishemtn but that is just me.
 
katrine said:
I agree we shouldnt all hate on Joe..I think some of the things that have been highlighted that he said or did since michael died may have been done through grief in that he doesnt know how to act, maybe he cant accept michael is gone so he is hiding his grief behind work ideas/proposals.
This is what I think anyway
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Joe is Joe and will always be....for good or ill.

He said some things that are just wrong...but we can't pretend we knew Michael any better than Joe.
 
As much as I love Michael as a fan, I know Joe loved him more. We as fans tend to pick and choose the positive aspects of MJ and we create our own picture of him. The family dealt with the real MJ I'm sure we'll never know , both the positive and negative aspects, and despite everything , the rivalry, and everything else, They Love him and he Loves them ( I cant yet speak of MJ in the past tense) . No matter what.
 
no we dont have to hate on him... that is not my point at all. but the man says some stupid shit, at stupid times. The man is a little shady *shrug* Even his own wife lives apart from him. if yall wanna be real, then be real. Mike was not an imperfect human and neither is his father. It aint about hate or control, it is about the truth.
 
Everyone has their own views on abuse.. Some say putting your child in timeout is abuse, others say raising your voice even slightly is abuse.. The list goes on... As for using a whip on them, I really do believe that is not to be taken literally, me saying I got a whipping could imply that I got whipped with a whip, even though it may have been with a switch or my mom's hand on my bottom..

I just have a problem with ppl calling the man scum.. well that piece of scum created MJ. We have ppl on here that don't agree with Rebbie helping her mom raise the kids, now I want to know WHAT IN THE HELL HAS REBBIE EVER DONE TO WARRANT SUCH DISLIKE?? Come one now this is REbbie, she married at 18, popped out a few babies and lived a rather quiet life to the a military guy.. Some of the ppl here will never be happy with the Jacksons but I bet if our family was put on display, ppl wouldn't like our neither.. Can't win for losing..
We don't like Joe, don't like the religion Mrs. Jackson practices, we don't like Blanket having long hair, we don't like Rebbie taking them to service, we don't like Kai bcuz she showed some cards the kids made FOR HER, we don't like the fact the kids were going out without MJ, we probably wouldn't like what the kids got to eat for breakfast, or possible schools they could be going to.. smh...
 
Nice post jamgirl. :)

I hear what your saying: Joe ain't no angel, but that ain't no reason to demonize the man either. He made mistakes, just like the rest of us. And I agree with the whole softie thing. Lots of the older folks get real soft when they older. My grandpa, who is about Joe's age, will still mess you up if you really git him mad, but he isn't as prone to anger as he used to be.

And Mike was a terrorizer when he was a kid; he was a brat. Now no one has actually called him a brat from what I can recall, but from the stories by Smokey and the rest of the old Motown folks Michael was a brat. He was also a clown, and a showman, etc. We all got different elements to our personalities. Regarding the whole nicknames thing, that's something I've thought alot about over the years, and my best answer to that is that Mike was sensitive. I got a brother like that: he'll talk all kinds of mess, but the minute you git him he gets all sad. Its cuz he's insecure, it was probably that way with Mike too.

Now, Joe making fun of Mike is different than siblings doing to each other, and seeing as how they had a ruff relationship to begin with, its kinda cruel. That is just straight up uncalled for and unneccesary. I think the same sort of thing applies to the extent of abuse. Joe messed all them kids up, but it affected Mike the most cuz he sensitive.

In the end, Joe is still Mike's dad, and though I don't agree with alot of teh things he did/has done, I respect the guy. I feel Mike's pain concerning his dad. It takes a helluvalot to make a kid absolutely hate their parent, and I don't think Mike hated him(he said just as much himself). He just wanted to be treated as a son.

@Jamgirl:And, girl, I love bebe's kids. Now, I know you ghetto.:D
 
MJJChichi said:
yall got to be out yo mind to defend JOE Jackson on parenting issues ... OUT YO MINDS. Fine, have some compassion for the old man ... sure, give him credit for pushing the boys to stardom ... Of course, those boys were all talented and something may never have happened, without his vision and drive for their future.

Dude was trying to make a promo at his son's Memorial...every time he is on TV he is pushing some future money scheme...or smiling like an evil cartoon cat talking about his grandchildren, the Jackson Three. Keep Grandpa away from the kids :zformation:

Sympathy for Joe Jackson is overly generous and a little suspect.
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Let's try not to confuse SYMPATHY and EMPATHY here.

I certainly don't feel sorry for Joe because he was obviously a a bit more harsh and way under affectionate than he should have been when he was bringing up his kids.

However I can understand under the circumstances why he might have been that way.

To add my 2 extra cents here....

We can not compartmentalize and try to separate everything as we please.

Michael was the SUM TOTAL of his experiences with Joe, Kat, brothers, sisters, kids, friends, fans and whoever and whatever else he came into contact with over the course of his life.

To reject any part of that would be to change the course of history!

I think what is important to remember here is that the Michael Jackson we all know and love was not only a product of the GOOD things that happened to him in his life but also the BAD things as well.
 
MJJChichi said:
no we dont have to hate on him... that is not my point at all. but the man says some stupid shit, at stupid times. The man is a little shady *shrug* Even his own wife lives apart from him. if yall wanna be real, then be real. Mike was not an imperfect human and neither is his father. It aint about hate or control, it is about the truth.
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Lol, that was the point of this thread as I took it, the fact that we don't have to "hate" on him or say disrespectful shit. Calling him shady is a hell of a lot different than saying "Joe Jackson can kiss my ass!" or "Joe can go straight to hell for all I care" or "he shouldn't be around the kids with his no good ass" (some of that is adlibs but that's the sentiment in the posts) and all the blatant disrespect that we've seen in some of these threads and again, nobody in here deemed Joe as imperfect, there is no such person that roams these lands.
 
MJJChichi said:
no we dont have to hate on him... that is not my point at all. but the man says some stupid shit, at stupid times. The man is a little shady *shrug* Even his own wife lives apart from him. if yall wanna be real, then be real. Mike was not an imperfect human and neither is his father. It aint about hate or control, it is about the truth.
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I agree, but he still deserves some degree of respect, I think thats the message of this thread. Hatred is not acceptable, especially if one knows little to nothing of someone. Im not excusing Joe, but I dont think he knows how to express himself properly and as we would like. Thats why I too think he should keep silent more often for his own good and that of the family.
 
MJJChichi said:
no we dont have to hate on him... that is not my point at all. but the man says some stupid shit, at stupid times. The man is a little shady *shrug* Even his own wife lives apart from him. if yall wanna be real, then be real. Mike was not an imperfect human and neither is his father. It aint about hate or control, it is about the truth.
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I agree with you Chichi, Joe can say some really dumb shit at times, and it makes ya want to grab his ass off tv.. He reminds me of my great Unce Joseph (yes how ironic) if u let him have the floor no telling what the hell he wld say.. However I give him credit for being able to say the things the other family members probably want to say, however Joe just needs to learn to put his words together better..lol..
 
Not to step on toes.

Oh hell, who am I kidding, I don't really care.

I have no respect for Joe. I'll tell that straight to his face.
With the gifts Michael had, one way or another that boy would have made something of himself. So forgive me if I think Joe is over rated.
Who was out on stage all day and night killing themselves to make the fans proud?
Who wrote the lyrics we all sing to?
Who couldn't sleep because he had music running through his thoughts 24/7?
Sure the hell wasn't Joe.
Michael gave his heart/soul/body to music.
I'm not gonna jump on the *Michael gave it, but couldn't take it* party line.
Parents don't talk to their children that way.

Joe, you can kiss my tail.
Michael, you are so much better than what you were told.
 
MichaelYoureAStud said:
Not to step on toes.

Oh hell, who am I kidding, I don't really care.

I have no respect for Joe. I'll tell that straight to his face.
With the gifts Michael had, one way or another that boy would have made something of himself. So forgive me if I think Joe is over rated.
Who was out on stage all day and night killing themselves to make the fans proud?
Who wrote the lyrics we all sing to?
Who couldn't sleep because he had music running through his thoughts 24/7?
Sure the hell wasn't Joe.
Michael gave his heart/soul/body to music.
I'm not gonna jump on the *Michael gave it, but couldn't take it* party line.
Parents don't talk to their children that way.

Joe, you can kiss my tail.
Michael, you are so much better than what you were told.
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Umm Ditto!

Now that Michael is dead you all think its ok to say he said shit that wasnt true on his family?! Well let me tell you alittle something about FAMILYS. Not all of them are perfect and sure as hell aint all that great! Michael was part of a family whos father desided to force them into the music scene. he was a STAGE PARENT. Michael said what he did for a reason wheither you believe it now or not it still may or may not have happened. I show no feelings towards joe and his lyin ass! No respect for a man who didnt show it.
 
MichaelYoureAStud said:
Not to step on toes.

Oh hell, who am I kidding, I don't really care.

I have no respect for Joe. I'll tell that straight to his face.
With the gifts Michael had, one way or another that boy would have made something of himself. So forgive me if I think Joe is over rated.
Who was out on stage all day and night killing themselves to make the fans proud?
Who wrote the lyrics we all sing to?
Who couldn't sleep because he had music running through his thoughts 24/7?
Sure the hell wasn't Joe.
Michael gave his heart/soul/body to music.
I'm not gonna jump on the *Michael gave it, but couldn't take it* party line.
Parents don't talk to their children that way.

Joe, you can kiss my tail.
Michael, you are so much better than what you were told.
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sorry, can`t help it. love this post! lol!
 
I agree with the person who posted this in another thread.

However - I do think that spanking is kind of abuse, but ofcourse it's always depending on the situation.. But if someone touched my child, or a child near me - I would'nt let that happen!.. But in my country it's actually illegal to spank your children..


But yes - Everything else that he writes I totally agree on! Read it!
I can't even leave any comments because everything was said!

If you love and respect Michael, then you gotta love and respect his mom and dad too. Both of them. THEY gave him life, THEY gave him shelter and food, THEY raised him, THEY made him happy and satisfied with his life.

When I see Joe, I see a good man. A man who wants to fullfill his role in the family. A man who wants to be the solid rock. The leader that keeps the unit working. It was'nt easy. There where no time for hollydays when they had all these mouths to feed and he was the only one working (which was normal at that time remember..).

And you don't even need to look far to get your proof that this family worked out fine and that the mother and father was good parrents: Just look at how the children grew up to be. Strong, kind, intelligent, loving, talented people. It's not only Michael who was that sort of good person.
They where all raised like that.
 
MJJ7777 said:
This issue seems to be more of a culture-clash. We simply dont understand each other.
One side pleads for respect, while the other pleads for hate.
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we are entitled to our own opinions. They may clash but we respect others.
 
Joe's a tricky one for me. I'd like to believe he's misunderstood. But I also hear what Michael said and that pulls on my heart.
Saying that, I'm not gonna sit and type shit on a forum about Joe or anyone in Michael's family for that matter, it's just disrespectful to Michael, and I'm sure he wouldn't want to hear it.
I generally keep quiet about Joe, as I don't really have much to say, apart from he talks too much, lol.
 
GinnyJackson said:
Umm Ditto!

Now that Michael is dead you all think its ok to say he said shit that wasnt true on his family?! Well let me tell you alittle something about FAMILYS. Not all of them are perfect and sure as hell aint all that great! Michael was part of a family whos father desided to force them into the music scene. he was a STAGE PARENT. Michael said what he did for a reason wheither you believe it now or not it still may or may not have happened. I show no feelings towards joe and his lyin ass! No respect for a man who didnt show it.
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I dont think anyone said that michael wasn't telling the truth, the point of this thread was point out the blatant disrespect for Michaels family, how some of you can claim to love Michael yet turn around and be so disrespectful to people you know very little if ANYTHING about is beyond me.
 
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