Michael had an accent?

[zinniabooklover]

"ive helped miny , miny , miny , " - Many .(drops the a )
It is at 0:38 - 0:47

Can someone confirm to me that Michael’s /S/ are special? They feel that way to me. Good examples in the CBS interview posted by @wendijane above.

Just listened. I have seen this before but it's not my fave so I don't return to it. I think I've reached another 'respectfully disagree' moment. I'd have to listen to some other bits to see if I think Michael is doing something different with his 'S' pronunciation.

In this clip I think it's to do with Botox or something like that. Looks to me like he's had some cosmetic surgery on his upper lip. It's not moving in its usual way. If that is correct, if he has had some work done, maybe that also explains the 'miny miny' pronunciation as well as the 'S'. I've seen comments from fans to do with Michael's upper lip being frozen after he had some work done. I don't know if this is from that period. I never usually pay attention to that stuff so I never tried to find out what year that was. I mean, I don't even know if those claims are true although, whenever I've seen it mentioned, people haven't been criticising him, just mentioning it as a well-known fact. But, anyway, maybe this clip falls into that period.

Btw, very happy to be corrected on the Botox thing if I got that wrong.

What do you both think? Am I seeing something that isn't there? Looks pretty obvious to me but I don't watch a lot of stuff from the 2000's. Most of the stuff from that decade - apart from TII - I have only watched once or twice so I'm not massively familiar with it.

 

[zinniabooklover]

Found this a while ago but had only listened once. Going back to it now, I'm much more aware of the accents of the brothers. It is a soft accent and I would never have recognised it as mid-western, not having that much knowledge of American accents from different regions. But I can hear it really clearly in this conversation. Love it. Really nice inflections, it's all very soothing to listen to.

Quote from the YT channel. Bit confusing but, anyway ...
"Interview with Michael Jackson and his brothers aired exclusive radio of the 70 'for the 50th anniversary of Motown. Michael and his brothers interview each other between stories and laughter. As always, Michael laughs a lot."

7m 11s

 

[Agonum]

What do you both think? Am I seeing something that isn't there? Looks pretty obvious to me but I don't watch a lot of stuff from the 2000's. Most of the stuff from that decade - apart from TII - I have only watched once or twice so I'm not massively familiar with it.

Nah. A stiff upper lip wouldn’t effect the ‘s’ or ‘i’. The latter is in line with the pen–pin merger; Michael’s always been doing it.

 

[Agonum]

[…] "enymals "- animals. […]

This I think would have to be attributed to the AAVE wovel shift, and more precisely the raising (tensing) of the trap/bath vowel.

 

[staywild23]

I loooooove this thread!!! My linguistics training is limited to exactly one graduate course and some research on accent and dialect discrimination in the American south haha. I am not an expert so I wish I had more to contribute to this discussion. However, I don't see Michael's accent/dialect (yes, there is a different, but no, I'm not good at distinguishing it really in his case lol) as a standard American one, but then I'm not really sure what I would even consider the standard American one. His is definitely midwestern, but he has some little nuances of AAVE, Southern, and honestly, there's probably some southern California in there. There's also probably some confusion because of maybe some media training when he was little? Perhaps he was told to speak a certain way at a certain age. I'm not sure. It's all conjecture on my part.
Anyway, I wanted to share this clip. Many of you have likely heard it but I just find it SO cute. Michael is maybe...idk, 17? And his voice just sounds so natural. His accent is so real, so relaxed. And that is something I noticed in the footage I saw during the ITSWMJ event I attended too, specifically footage from the Dangerous era. His "accent" was so evident when he was at his most relaxed and it was just beautiful to witness.

I find this video so adorable and so charming. Sometimes I listen to it over and over lol.

 

[wendijane]

14:28 - 14 :33

 

[wendijane]

I loooooove this thread!!! My linguistics training is limited to exactly one graduate course and some research on accent and dialect discrimination in the American south haha. I am not an expert so I wish I had more to contribute to this discussion. However, I don't see Michael's accent/dialect (yes, there is a different, but no, I'm not good at distinguishing it really in his case lol) as a standard American one, but then I'm not really sure what I would even consider the standard American one. His is definitely midwestern, but he has some little nuances of AAVE, Southern, and honestly, there's probably some southern California in there. There's also probably some confusion because of maybe some media training when he was little? Perhaps he was told to speak a certain way at a certain age. I'm not sure. It's all conjecture on my part.
Anyway, I wanted to share this clip. Many of you have likely heard it but I just find it SO cute. Michael is maybe...idk, 17? And his voice just sounds so natural. His accent is so real, so relaxed. And that is something I noticed in the footage I saw during the ITSWMJ event I attended too, specifically footage from the Dangerous era. His "accent" was so evident when he was at his most relaxed and it was just beautiful to witness.

I find this video so adorable and so charming. Sometimes I listen to it over and over lol.

Yay Midwestern Mike
He really does sound relaxed here. Oh , the media training - now that is another thing...Gosh , there are so many layers to this subject i feel. Yeah cause he moved to Cali wasn't born there - so def. can consider the Southern California points too. This video also It is a great example @staywild23 thanks yes mmmm some really profound points here. People's voices will usually change with emotion with whatever they are doing or not doing - at the time of their talking too! so...it's a mixed bag for me.

 

[Agonum]

I loooooove this thread!!! My linguistics training is limited to exactly one graduate course and some research on accent and dialect discrimination in the American south haha. I am not an expert so I wish I had more to contribute to this discussion. However, I don't see Michael's accent/dialect (yes, there is a different, but no, I'm not good at distinguishing it really in his case lol) as a standard American one, but then I'm not really sure what I would even consider the standard American one. His is definitely midwestern, but he has some little nuances of AAVE, Southern, and honestly, there's probably some southern California in there. There's also probably some confusion because of maybe some media training when he was little? Perhaps he was told to speak a certain way at a certain age. I'm not sure. It's all conjecture on my part.
Anyway, I wanted to share this clip. Many of you have likely heard it but I just find it SO cute. Michael is maybe...idk, 17? And his voice just sounds so natural. His accent is so real, so relaxed. And that is something I noticed in the footage I saw during the ITSWMJ event I attended too, specifically footage from the Dangerous era. His "accent" was so evident when he was at his most relaxed and it was just beautiful to witness.

I find this video so adorable and so charming. Sometimes I listen to it over and over lol.

Oh, you’re back!!

 

[Agonum]

I find this video so adorable and so charming. Sometimes I listen to it over and over lol.

WOW!!!! This is mindblowingly cool to hear!

You know what I would really like to see? A transcription of this. Not because it’s particularly hard to understand (it’s really not), but because I think it would be interesting to see what you pick up on. The dream would then of course be to have the whole thing given in IPA.

Man, this recording is unreal – so cool!

 

[Agonum]

[…] I'm not really sure what I would even consider the standard American one. […]

Allegedly, Stephen Colbert talks standard American!

Stephen Colbert interview

2m 59s

 

[Agonum]

[…] I don't see Michael's accent/dialect […] as a standard American one […]

*taking notes*

[…] His is definitely midwestern, but he has some little nuances of AAVE, Southern, and honestly, there's probably some southern California in there. There's also probably some confusion because of maybe some media training when he was little? Perhaps he was told to speak a certain way at a certain age. […]

Media training… can it perhaps explain his extreme politeness? I mean with the “pardon!” and what have you. Or is there something in particular you’re alluding to with this thought?

Southern California, yes! Very interesting indeed. Are there any telltales as to why you would assume so? I’m craving for examples!

 

[staywild23]

Oh, you’re back!!

So cute

WOW!!!! This is mindblowingly cool to hear!

I know!! Isn't it wonderful?? Taj Jackson shared this as part of his excavation of tapes through his documentary process. I can't wait to hear more. Such an adorable and personal example!

You know what I would really like to see? A transcription of this. Not because it’s particularly hard to understand (it’s really not), but because I think it would be interesting to see what you pick up on. The dream would then of course be to have the whole thing given in IPA.

Hahaha are you an academic? If not you ought to be

Man, this recording is unreal – so cool!

I'm so glad you enjoyed it! It really touched my heart. I return to it often. I love his accent in this and what feels like a completely relaxed, natural tone of speaking. Beautiful.

Allegedly, Stephen Colbert talks standard American!

Stephen Colbert interview

2m 59s

Great example! You can see some likeness with Michael, but Michael's vocal styling has much more personality.

*taking notes*

Media training… can it perhaps explain his extreme politeness? I mean with the “pardon!” and what have you.

That's an interesting point! I always assumed his extreme politeness was more of a Jackson family value/trait, but it could very well be media training. God that "pardon!" makes me melt, hardcore lol. Whoever knew politeness could do so much for a woman!

Or is there something in particular you’re alluding to with this thought?

What I meant with this comment, actually, was media training to remove any regional accent. That is very common in the US. There have been many examples in the music industry/Hollywood over the years of people whose accents all but vanish over the course of their careers due to an intentional effort to remove their accents so they are more appealing to a broad population. I imagine this would also be quite present for African American artists too, beyond just the regional dialects. Of course, if an accent or dialect is marketable (such as a southern twang for a country artist) it would probably be further cultivated. But I think you know what I mean. I can only imagine if Michael was told to act younger, or lie about his age, he may also have been told to not use certain words, or to watch his pronunciation here or there, etc. I'm not sure, but the logic makes sense to me!

Southern California, yes! Very interesting indeed. Are there any telltales as to why you would assume so? I’m craving for examples!

Hmm honestly it was more that he was 10 or so when he moved out there, right? So I figured he was young enough that it could influence his accent in a way it may not have influenced his older brothers. From what I understand, 10/11/12 are some of the final years a person can change regions (languages, countries, cultures, etc) and pretty seamlessly lose traces of their former accents. They are still adaptable enough at that age. But any older it is somewhat impossible. Now, I'm not saying that's even the case here. It was really more just an idea that maybe part of why it can be hard to place where certain phrasings, pronunciations, etc come from is because sweet little Michael moved around so much at such a young age. His life changed so much and had so many influences!

It's all conjecture on my part haha. I wish I knew more of what I was talking about. Such a great topic, honestly!

 

[Agonum]

Hahaha are you an academic? If not you ought to be

I am! But I must stress that linguistics is not my field of study (music is).

[…] I always assumed his extreme politeness was more of a Jackson family value/trait, but it could very well be media training. […]

I believe Rose Fine played a big part in this! And probably not just with the politeness, but also for a general language polish towards ‘correctness’.

 

[staywild23]

I am! But I must stress that linguistics is not my field of study (music is).

OMG! I had no idea! I am too. My field is English (specifically Rhetoric and Writing Studies). How cool! Do you teach, too? No need to answer if you prefer not to share personal details like that. I am just excited

I believe Rose Fine played a big part in this! And probably not just with the politeness, but also for a general language polish towards ‘correctness’.

Oh, great point! I hadn't thought about that.

Btw, have you ever watched the video of Michael attending the dedication at the Gardner Street elementary school during the Bad era? He requested that Rose Fine and his other former teacher were there and it's sooooo adorable. Watching him interact with them and give his little speech. Also he is just a beacon of otherworldly beauty and my human heart can't survive it. I have watched the entire 30 minutes video an embarrassing number of times lol.

 

[Agonum]

So, what’s the consensus about the /s/? I’d say he holds them out a little longer than what you’d expect a ‘s’ to be held out for. And he combines this with a slow kind of aspiration: it’s somewhat subtle, but it has an almost tremolo‐like quality to it.

As with everything Michael, it’s all highly musical. It’s like he talks to a never-ending click track!

The phrasings are to die for!

The emphases!

 

[zinniabooklover]

For me it's all about his enunciation. It's so beautifully clear.

So, what’s the consensus about the /s/? I’d say he holds them out a little longer than what you’d expect a ‘s’ to be held out for. And he combines this with a slow kind of aspiration: it’s somewhat subtle, but it has an almost tremolo‐like quality to it.

As with everything Michael, it’s all highly musical. It’s like he talks to a never-ending click track!

The phrasings are to die for!

The emphases!

This is way too technical for me, lol. I can't hear this thing with the 'S'. So I'll pass on that.

I think his speech patterns are a combination of many things, all of them touched on in this thread. I'm really pleased I can now hear his midwestern accent although it is only really there in his childhood and early teens, imo.

 

[Agonum]

OMG! I had no idea! I am too. My field is English (specifically Rhetoric and Writing Studies). How cool! Do you teach, too? No need to answer if you prefer not to share personal details like that. I am just excited

I don’t teach anymore. Have had (erm… let’s call them) personal issues getting in the way.

I would love to broaden my field of stydy to include linguistics! Phonology, semantics… certainly syntax! I’ve always had the interest, but never found the time. Latin is a passion of mine (thanks, Linné!). And when you think about it, music and language are, in a way, closely related!

Btw, have you ever watched the video of Michael attending the dedication at the Gardner Street elementary school during the Bad era? He requested that Rose Fine and his other former teacher were there and it's sooooo adorable. Watching him interact with them and give his little speech. Also he is just a beacon of otherworldly beauty and my human heart can't survive it. I have watched the entire 30 minutes video an embarrassing number of times lol.

I have not! Just seen clips of this, never knew there was anything else. Watching now!

 

[Agonum]

Oh, what the heck, let’s post it here!

Michael Jackson at Gardner St. School for Auditorium Dedication

36m

 

[staywild23]

I don’t teach anymore. Have had (erm… let’s call them) personal issues getting in the way.

Understood

I would love to broaden my field of stydy to include linguistics! Phonology, semantics… certainly syntax! I’ve always had the interest, but never found the time. Latin is a passion of mine (thanks, Linné!). And when you think about it, music and language are, in a way, closely related!

Maybe you will, someday! Life is interesting like that. And yes, agreed. Music is really just another kind of language.

Oh, what the heck, let’s post it here!

Michael Jackson at Gardner St. School for Auditorium Dedication

36m

OH GOD... I cannot give into this lol. I adore it too much. Michael is soooooo radiant. I have actually cried while watching this. My love for him is exhausting lol.

 

[filmandmusic]

To mine own knowledge ev'rybody hast a particular accent, so naturally michael jackson eke hadst one. That gent wast a human being and a fine sir aft'r all. I bethink not that gent spake vict'rian English though!

 

[zinniabooklover]

To mine own knowledge ev'rybody hast a particular accent, so naturally michael jackson eke hadst one. That gent wast a human being and a fine sir aft'r all. I bethink not that gent spake vict'rian English though!

He didn't speak Victorian English, as you say. But he was very correct with a lot of his enunciation. He was a 'fine sir'.

 

[Agonum]

A lot to take in. Must return to this clip when not sleep-deprived!

In the meantime, I’m posting this lovely picture of the boys with Rose.

 

[wendijane]

Allegedly, Stephen Colbert talks standard American!

Stephen Colbert interview

2m 59s

It is pretty brash (to me) it sounds like the guys from pearl jam ( to me) This sounds like a Chicago accent to me, first thought.. it is hard to me, and then he mentions studying in Chicago.. right ?lol getting good at this , me lol

Bloody hell! Rather riveting thread ....on which i will park my bum on. lol
Translates to - I like this thread. i shall sit here for a bit.

 

[Agonum]

OH GOD... I cannot give into this lol. I adore it too much. Michael is soooooo radiant. I have actually cried while watching this. My love for him is exhausting lol.

Oh my… this was very hard for me to watch, because I get so emotional. I had to take a break last night during the introductory speeches. Came back today, and what a rollercoaster! And to see Rose Fine – she was so proud!

But I’m glad to see Michael in his happier days! Must try not to think too much about what was ahead of him.

 

[Agonum]

It is pretty brash (to me) it sounds like the guys from pearl jam ( to me) This sounds like a Chicago accent to me, first thought.. it is hard to me, and then he mentions studying in Chicago.. right ?lol getting good at this , me lol

Bloody hell! Rather riveting thread ....on which i will park my bum on. lol
Translates to - I like this thread. i shall sit here for a bit.

Interesting! Could it be, that the Chicago accent is a rather neutral one?

You call it brash, but are you sure it’s not the timbre of Stephen’s voice you’re describing? Because that sure sounds brash to me!

 

[zinniabooklover]

Originally posted by @Seanc over on the Interviews thread. Posting it here bc Rose Fine makes an appearance. I've only ever seen tiny fragments from this, not this longer version. As interviews go, it's a bit shapeless, imo, but it's really nice to have the footage.

Runs for 15m 20s. It starts with Joe - he's gone by 1m 35s. Rose Fine - 2m 35s - 7m 50s

 

[Victorious]

Not me either! (The second one, that is)

Oh my! What a find!

The second voicemail comes from Leaving Neverland right?

 

[Agonum]

Originally posted by @Seanc over on the Interviews thread. Posting it here bc Rose Fine makes an appearance. I've only ever seen tiny fragments from this, not this longer version. As interviews go, it's a bit shapeless, imo, but it's really nice to have the footage.

Runs for 15m 20s. It starts with Joe - he's gone by 1m 35s. Rose Fine - 2m 35s - 7m 50s

As you say, really nice to have! What a rare insight. Rose Fine sure is a character! Also, always interesting to hear Joe talk.

 

[Agonum]

The second voicemail comes from Leaving Neverland right?

Haven’t watched and refuse to watch, so I wouldn’t know.

 

[wendijane]

Interesting! Could it be, that the Chicago accent is a rather neutral one?

You call it brash, but are you sure it’s not the timbre of Stephen’s voice you’re describing? Because that sure sounds brash to me!

I think the Chicago is like a punch. Maybe I'll talk about it's colour. it is red to me. Maybe i am hearing what i want to hear or maybe what i expect to with this video example. Maybe my eyes hear for me? Can't be good.
Well I do know that this thread has spoken to me alot.. Lol
But, seriously there's so much depth and layers n tone to a voice and now.... timbre?!