Michael had an accent?

[wendijane]

You can get pretty darn close with IPA.

 

[wendijane]

It must be real. I never questioned the authenticity when listening to it. Appears to be from an answering machine. But how did it wind up on Youtube?

The mystery of the internet my darling haha

 

[Seanc]

The "Do it and you're dead" line from Moonwalker

 

[Agonum]

The "Do it and you're dead" line from Moonwalker

Love that example.

@36s

 

[Agonum]

What’s up with Michael’s pronunciation of the word ‘white’? He puts an initial aspiration to it, so it goes something like /w hh ay t/. Is this something that can be attributed to his accent?

I also wonder about how you would label his accent. I see that @wendijane label it ‘mid west’, though I am curious as to whether there are traces of southern states there as well? (I.e., what @zinniabooklover would refer to as a ‘southern twang’.) Some traces are expected there, seeing as Katherine was born in Alabama and Joseph in Arkansas.

Edit: Embarrassing typo fix.

 

[Seanc]

What’s up with Michael’s pronounciation of the word ‘white’? He puts an initial aspiration to it, so it goes something like /w hh ay t/. Is this something that can be attributed to his accent?

I also wonder about how you would label his accent. I see that @wendijane label it ‘mid west’, though I am curious as to whether there are traces of southern states there as well? (I.e., what @zinniabooklover would refer to as a ‘southern twang’.) Some traces are expected there, seeing as Katherine was born in Alabama and Joseph in Arkansas.

I always thought there was a Southern twang to Michael accent.....There is a radio interview with Michael from 1973 and the presenter asks him about sports and Michael says he likes running, They guy asks why...and Michael says I'm just fast They way he says it is funny ...it's very drawl... its online

it's around the 14:38 mark...they way he say i win all the time is quite country

 

[zinniabooklover]

What’s up with Michael’s pronounciation of the word ‘white’? He puts an initial aspiration to it, so it goes something like /w hh ay t/. Is this something that can be attributed to his accent?

I also wonder about how you would label his accent. I see that @wendijane label it ‘mid west’, though I am curious as to whether there are traces of southern states there as well? (I.e., what @zinniabooklover would refer to as a ‘southern twang’.) Some traces are expected there, seeing as Katherine was born in Alabama and Joseph in Arkansas.

Tbh, don't really think of Michael as having an accent outside of just a normal, generic American accent. I've seen comments on him having a certain type of accent bc he's from Gary, Indiana but I don't know what that sounds like. Plus, as he was so young when they left, his original accent would likely have disappeared or been massively diluted. I dunno, I just hear an American voice.

Have only taken a quick glance at this thread, but it seems to me accent and pronunciation are getting mixed up. 2 different things.

Michael's pronunciation of the word 'white', people in the UK do that, too. It's not common but, then again, it's not unusual. Michael does it most obviously in the making of BOW video. I've noticed when people do that pronunciation they slightly blow out their cheeks as they say the first syllable. I've never given it much thought, tbh.

I definitely can't hear any kind of Southern in Michael's voice but then I can't hear it in Katherine's voice, either. No idea how old she was when she left the South. Can't hear the South in Joseph's voice. Maybe you need to be American to pick up the sounds.

I always thought there was a Southern twang to Michael accent.....There is a radio interview with Michael from 1973 and the presenter asks him about sports and Michael says he likes running, They guy asks why...and Michael says I'm just fast They way he says it is funny ...it's very drawl... its online

it's around the 14:38 mark...they way he say i win all the time is quite country

ooh, that was good timing, Sean! Just listened to the 'I just know I'm fast' bit. See, I wouldn't attribute that to a particular accent. That little bit to me is just someone being sassy with their voice. I can't explain it properly. But, just, you know, putting on a bit of exaggeration for comic effect.

Good find, though. I haven't heard that interview before. I'm gonna post that one on the interview thread.

 

[SmoothCriminal1995]

I think Mike had an internal struggle with his accent.

On one hand he tried to stay true to his black southern roots on the other hand, he also tried to cross over not only to a white American audience but a worldwide audience and also it's worth noting he and his family moved to California when he was 10ish, so that probably had an impact on his accent.

Also he had voice lessons and other classes from Motown from an early age, so that probably played a part too

 

[zinniabooklover]

I always thought there was a Southern twang to Michael accent.....There is a radio interview with Michael from 1973 and the presenter asks him about sports and Michael says he likes running, They guy asks why...and Michael says I'm just fast They way he says it is funny ...it's very drawl...

Further thoughts - Michael's voice obviously does change as he gets older. His voice here does sound very similar to his voice in the 1977 Molly Meldrum interview and even, maybe, that 1983 radio interview he does with Diane Collins. But def the 1977 interview, lots of similarity. I think I've listened mostly to his adult interviews so that's the sound of his voice that is imprinted on my brain.

And more thoughts - re the Southern thing. I can't hear a Southern sound in Jackie or Tito or Jermaine. I don't think it's really there. Wouldn't we hear it in the older siblings? Just a thought.

 

[zinniabooklover]

Well, I'm supposed to be chopping up broccoli but I'm doing this instead, lol.

From another thread:

I can not differ the southern accent from midwestern. Can you?

Yeah, there's a difference. Sometimes r's are over-pronounced which can put a different bend on vowel sounds. Also keep in mind that a white mid-western working class family is going to sound different from a black mid-western working class family; colloquial slang and dialects can differ according to what part of town you live in. Joe was mid-western and Katherine was southern but Alabama's "southern" accent also sounds different from Florida's, or Louisiana's or Mississippi's or even Texas. How Michael says the word "would" like "wood" is a classic general southern pronunciation. The lazy vowels happen a lot in the mid-west, like how Michael pronounces the world "adulation" kind of like "edge-yoo-lay-shun". It's a unique blend that hard to duplicate....

When I first watched the documentary about him going back to Gary I could listen to their accent for the first time. I noticed that those who lived there had a similar accent to Michael's, but it was a lot stronger (it's obvious, there!). Michael has a slight one instead, and we have to keep in mind that he lived in LA for a very long time, he moved there when he was young, so probably he lost most of it.

@wendijane you were in this thread. Or, at least, you bumped it.

Why Michael's pronunciation is so different?

Well, I was wonderin' why sometimes Michael's pronunciation is so different? English is not my mother language but I've heard a lot times people saying that he had his own pronunciation.

www.mjjcommunity.com

 

[Agonum]

Good thought and finds, @zinniabooklover!

 

[Agonum]

Excuse me for using Arpabet here, but:

Michael monophthongizes /ai/… so

𝚙 𝚛 𝚊𝚢 𝚟 𝚊𝚑 𝚜 𝚒𝚢 ￫ 𝚙 𝚛 𝚊𝚊 𝚟 𝚊𝚑 𝚜 𝚒𝚢​

He deletes the second if two unvoiced final consonants… so

𝚝 𝚎𝚑 𝚜 𝚝 ￫ 𝚝 𝚎𝚑 𝚜​

(He even does it in plural, so

𝚐 𝚑𝚑 𝚘𝚠 𝚜 𝚝 𝚜 ￫ 𝚐 𝚑𝚑 𝚘𝚠 𝚜)​

He stresses the first syllable in certain words

(𝚐 𝚒𝚑 𝚝 𝚊𝚊¹ 𝚛 ￫ 𝚐 𝚒𝚑¹ 𝚝 𝚊𝚊,​

𝙳 𝚒𝚑 𝚝 𝚛 𝚘𝚢¹ 𝚝 ￫ 𝙳 𝚒𝚑¹ 𝚝 𝚛 𝚘𝚢 𝚝).​

And these are just three out of many things that alludes to a Southern accent.

Please feel free to correct me! (And before you say it, I have a sneaking suspicion that the last point above might be an AAVE rather than Southern thing.)

Edit: Formalia, layout.

 

[zinniabooklover]

Good thought and finds, @zinniabooklover!

There's so much good stuff on both these threads. That documentary sounds interesting, where they go back to Gary. I listened to a little interview clip a while back where Michael and the brothers are chatting away. I think I'll go over it again, listen out for any differences in their respective voices.

I do think Michael's way of speaking is really interesting bc he'll do something like the 'sometime' thing but then his enunciation can be very precise, like when he says 'pardon'. I wanna say he's quite different in his speech to his family members but the truth is I don't have much interest in the Jacksons besides Michael so I haven't listened to the others all that much.

 

[Agonum]

There’s another thread, called ‘Michael linguistics’ something, but it got locked early on. A shame, because the discussion was quite interesting! I’m sure you have already seen that one @zinniabooklover.

 

[zinniabooklover]

There’s another thread, called ‘Michael linguistics’ something, but it got locked early on. A shame, because the discussion was quite interesting! I’m sure you have already seen that one @zinniabooklover.

I remember that one but I didn't read it properly. I'm gonna finish it so thanks for the reminder. It wasn't very long, IIRC, but there's always so much to listen to or read.

I was watching a Prince interview with Larry King earlier and was trying to figure out if he had an accent. Maybe Minneapolis accents are quite soft, I don't know. He's another one with a lovely speaking voice.

 

[zinniabooklover]

There’s another thread, called ‘Michael linguistics’ something, but it got locked early on. A shame, because the discussion was quite interesting! I’m sure you have already seen that one @zinniabooklover.

Update - now I remember why I didn't read that thread properly. It's too technical for me. Plus, what is it with all the crazy crossings out over most of the comments? Gah!

There were some interesting comments but it's really a conversation for specialists. That said, I love the way Michael is so endlessly fascinating in so many different ways.

 

[wendijane]

i took one ink pin (one ink pen) he wrote that in a note which was posted here ...

https://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/29500000/ink-pin-michael-jackson-29562924-400-322.jpg

so can imagine him saying pin instead of pen. cause he said it with ten ... tin ... "another tin minuets*

"ive helped miny , miny , miny , " - Many .(drops the a )
It is at 0:38 - 0:47

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/304344887295714327/

I know ... its not a video- but please try to read n phrase in his tone. !
The note back in 2008 he wrote to us all , he would write lovely notes and in a few hours..., gosh, even sooner- it would be shared here ! ill never forget this one. @MacMandy90 right? One cold winters night this was written and posted was'nt it .

Way he said enything... (anything) ... Sometime (i tend to miss the s off that one too- it is a long time habit - could say it is part of my
michaelin ') , chilll-ren (no d letter) worl - world oh......... etc all of this !
Just love it . To my British ears it sounds pretty engaging. Can we say ASMR Michael ? Oh , keep this thread going guys

Bringing the thread to life-

 

[Maxym]

*Did not read the thread*

I heard various times that the "purest" and most intelligible remaining form of English is geographically located in around center-North (and maybe West-North USA).
I'm not from the USA and English is not my mother language... but in my experience I would confirm that people from around that area are much more intelligible than people with say... London accents, Scottish accent, Texan accent, New York accent, UK-recruiter accent...

 

[Agonum]

Have only taken a quick glance at this thread, but it seems to me accent and pronunciation are getting mixed up. 2 different things.

I don’t know if this was meant for me or someone else, but it’s been nagging me.

The way I see it, a pronunciation is the manifestation of an accent.

Of course there are also things like mispronunciations, speech disorders and yada yada yada… those I wouldn’t attribute to one’s accent.

 

[Agonum]

i took one ink pin (one ink pen) he wrote that in a note which was posted here ...

Ah, the pin‐pen merger! Yes, it’s very obvious in Michael’s speech. Hilarious that he would write it that way, too!

The note back in 2008 he wrote to us all , he would write lovely notes and in a few hours..., gosh, even sooner- it would be shared here ! ill never forget this one. @MacMandy90 right? One cold winters night this was written and posted was'nt it .

Lovely!

Way he said enything... (anything) ... Sometime (i tend to miss the s off that one too- it is a long time habit - could say it is part of my
michaelin ') , chilll-ren (no d letter) worl - world oh......... etc all of this !
Just love it . To my British ears it sounds pretty engaging. Can we say ASMR Michael ? Oh , keep this thread going guys

Yes, this is gold! More! More!!

 

[MacMandy90]

Well, I'm supposed to be chopping up broccoli but I'm doing this instead, lol.

Oh goodness dear lol

Hahaha sorry, I couldn't resist lol good ol' Dana Carvey SNL

i took one ink pin (one ink pen) he wrote that in a note which was posted here ...

https://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/29500000/ink-pin-michael-jackson-29562924-400-322.jpg

so can imagine him saying pin instead of pen. cause he said it with ten ... tin ... "another tin minuets*

"ive helped miny , miny , miny , " - Many .(drops the a )
It is at 0:38 - 0:47

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/304344887295714327/

I know ... its not a video- but please try to read n phrase in his tone. !
The note back in 2008 he wrote to us all , he would write lovely notes and in a few hours..., gosh, even sooner- it would be shared here ! ill never forget this one. @MacMandy90 right? One cold winters night this was written and posted was'nt it .

Way he said enything... (anything) ... Sometime (i tend to miss the s off that one too- it is a long time habit - could say it is part of my
michaelin ') , chilll-ren (no d letter) worl - world oh......... etc all of this !
Just love it . To my British ears it sounds pretty engaging. Can we say ASMR Michael ? Oh , keep this thread going guys

Bringing the thread to life-

@wendijane Oh my gracious yes indeed dear! How could I forget these gems here, there's definitely some twang and emphasis in the way he
uses his words absolutely. And those lovely notes he wrote as well, I could never forget them either, his writing has so much personality, I could hear his words jump from the pages it's so distinct.

 

[zinniabooklover]

Michael Jackson with his soft spoken relaxing voice speaking from the heart.
The magical instrumental is his last recorded material during the this is it rehearsals. Not sure where the interview itself is coming from.
Such a beautiful recording, a masterpiece (yes I heard enough from a 30sec snippet) that was sadly never finished

I don't think this one properly registered with me when f&m first posted this so I'm bumping it. I'm blown away. It's quite a bit longer than other similar things I've heard. You can really immerse yourself in his voice. Lovely.

Can we say ASMR Michael ?

We certainly can! We had a whole convo about ASMR Michael last year bc @filmandmusic had posted an awesome piece of audio. Follow the link from f&m's post here.

Hang on, wend. Let me put this together!

 

[zinniabooklover]

Here's the audio that f&m posted.

@wendijane - you'll see your Giving Tree photo right at the end there.

2m 57s

 

[zinniabooklover]

Bumping this. I think it's the one that links up with the audio clip that @filmandmusic posted on Fave Videos. That one has been done as an ASMR video but using Michael's voice and I'm convinced it's taken from this interview.

Time stamp for comparison - 2m

Here's the interview clip. Posted by sw23 last year, it's a radio interview from 1983. If anyone hasn't already heard this I highly recommend it.

@wendijane - you've probably heard this one already but not only is the entire interview pure gold but you've got the ASMR vibe all through it bc of his voice. It's almost like a meditation in itself.

Is this all making sense? Hope so. I'm still quite tired, lol.

 

[zinniabooklover]

Oh goodness dear lol

The broccoli was lovely! I steamed it. Mm ...

Hahaha sorry, I couldn't resist lol good ol' Dana Carvey SNL

I don't really do tv so I'm always miles behind everyone else. Last year I 'discovered' the SNL performance Prince did of Electric Chair. This week, I have JUST caught up with 'The Day Beyonce Turned Black', lol.

 

[zinniabooklover]

Looks like I am doomed to spend the rest of my life inside this thread, lol.

I don’t know if this was meant for me or someone else, but it’s been nagging me.

Anyway. No, the comment about accent / pronunciation was just a general thought I was throwing out there. I do think people confuse those two things.

The way I see it, a pronunciation is the manifestation of an accent.

I'm not sure. I am no linguistics expert. I have a vague, unformed interest in the subject. I can't even read books about it bc they are always filled with horrible jargon. Even the so-called 'basic' ones about sociolinguistics which is the bit that most interests me.
I have no real knowledge of this.

Of course there are also things like mispronunciations, speech disorders and yada yada yada… those I wouldn’t attribute to one’s accent.

No, I wouldn't include those. I can explain what I mean but it will only make sense to @wendijane or another British person. They might not agree with me but they'll get the point I'm making. I mean, I can lay it out here just as FYI.

wendi, this is for you. OK, we have 3 people. One from Newcastle, one from Liverpool and one from Birmingham. They will all *sound* very, very different. To me, that *sound* is their accent.

But an awful lot of their *pronunciation* will be exactly the same or very, very similar. Think of someone from the South or South East - especially if they are middle-class - and how they pronounce certain words. Path. Bath. Commandments. The middle-class / South East person most likely will say 'parth', 'barth', 'commarndments'. Our peeps from the Midlands and up North just won't do that but they all will share the same pronunciation. For the word, 'garage', generally, a Midlander or Northern person will say 'garridge' but the person from down South will most likely say 'ga - rarge' (that one is hard to write on the page!). The last syllable will be drawn out and longer.

Dialect is the way people from a particular region will speak. I think dialect covers grammar, vocab choices and pronunciation. But I don't think dialect includes the sound of their voices. And I could be wrong, lol. Linguistics is not my superpower!

I think Mike had an internal struggle with his accent. On one hand he tried to stay true to his black southern rootsheon the other hand, he also tried to cross over not only to a white American audience but a worldwide audience. Also he had voice lessons and other classes from Motown from an early age, so that probably played a part too

All of this plays into it, I'm sure.

On the Linguistics thread - which is locked - I found this:

"For example, when I get tired, I will inadvertently sound more German- or even slip into a New England accent because I spent 10 years there. He traveled all over the world and even had something I would lovingly call 'Jacksone', he's got his own language. He very much feels his way even through his own mother tongue- the way he felt his dance moves as emotions, becoming 'the emotion of what that sound is.' I feel that to a large degree he instinctively even spoke the way he would feel music."
(posted by PaceMioDolceCuore)

 

[Agonum]

Looks like I am doomed to spend the rest of my life inside this thread, lol.

You bet!

Anyway. No, the comment about accent / pronunciation was just a general thought I was throwing out there. I do think people confuse those two things.

I’ve been reading a bit, and I begin to see where you’re coming from, and that it comes down to babel of tongues.

In Sweden, we talk about dialect and pronunciation, but I don’t know what our equivalent to ‘accent’ would be. We do have ‘brytning’, but that’s more if you speak a language as a secondary one and your mother tongue comes shining trough.

 

[Agonum]

Can someone confirm to me that Michael’s /S/ are special? They feel that way to me. Good examples in the CBS interview posted by @wendijane above.

 

[Fuzball]

Ah, the pin‐pen merger! Yes, it’s very obvious in Michael’s speech. Hilarious that he would write it that way, too!

Michael was good at many things but orthography was clearly his weakest capability.

 

[wendijane]

Oh goodness dear lol

Hahaha sorry, I couldn't resist lol good ol' Dana Carvey SNL

@wendijane Oh my gracious yes indeed dear! How could I forget these gems here, there's definitely some twang and emphasis in the way he
uses his words absolutely. And those lovely notes he wrote as well, I could never forget them either, his writing has so much personality, I could hear his words jump from the pages it's so distinct.

I know ...yes ..and i know we spoke about this before , i know i brought this up before -but the true excitement and how things were right? We were getting posts from the fans kind enough to share- i guess they were Michaels messengers in a way - We got videos , we got flowers, heartfelt letters, post it notes , we got new pics .in real time with him ..such a magical , magical time - Just irreplaceable @MacMandy90

We certainly can! We had a whole convo about ASMR Michael last year bc @filmandmusic had posted an awesome piece of audio. Follow the link from f&m's post here.

Hang on, wend. Let me put this together!

Oh, I do appreciate you taking the time to do this zin . Thank You . Yeah like i said a bit earlier , hadn't seen the first, that second one , well it is precious. another one - "enymals "- animals. Great , great video. He is slightly older there too so i really like that as my asmr

Looks like I am doomed to spend the rest of my life inside this thread, lol.

cosign

Anyway. No, the comment about accent / pronunciation was just a general thought I was throwing out there. I do think people confuse those two things.


I'm not sure. I am no linguistics expert. I have a vague, unformed interest in the subject. I can't even read books about it bc they are always filled with horrible jargon. Even the so-called 'basic' ones about sociolinguistics which is the bit that most interests me.
I have no real knowledge of this.


No, I wouldn't include those. I can explain what I mean but it will only make sense to @wendijane or another British person. They might not agree with me but they'll get the point I'm making. I mean, I can lay it out here just as FYI.

wendi, this is for you. OK, we have 3 people. One from Newcastle, one from Liverpool and one from Birmingham. They will all *sound* very, very different. To me, that *sound* is their accent.

But an awful lot of their *pronunciation* will be exactly the same or very, very similar. Think of someone from the South or South East - especially if they are middle-class - and how they pronounce certain words. Path. Bath. Commandments. The middle-class / South East person most likely will say 'parth', 'barth', 'commarndments'. Our peeps from the Midlands and up North just won't do that but they all will share the same pronunciation. For the word, 'garage', generally, a Midlander or Northern person will say 'garridge' but the person from down South will most likely say 'ga - rarge' (that one is hard to write on the page!). The last syllable will be drawn out and longer.

Dialect is the way people from a particular region will speak. I think dialect covers grammar, vocab choices and pronunciation. But I don't think dialect includes the sound of their voices. And I could be wrong, lol. Linguistics is not my superpower!


All of this plays into it, I'm sure.

On the Linguistics thread - which is locked - I found this:

"For example, when I get tired, I will inadvertently sound more German- or even slip into a New England accent because I spent 10 years there. He traveled all over the world and even had something I would lovingly call 'Jacksone', he's got his own language. He very much feels his way even through his own mother tongue- the way he felt his dance moves as emotions, becoming 'the emotion of what that sound is.' I feel that to a large degree he instinctively even spoke the way he would feel music."
(posted by PaceMioDolceCuore)

@zinniabooklover Such a well written explanation - example n in depth , deep thought out post there zin yes and . People from Birmingham and Liverpool tend to speak with a ? at the end of most their sentences. To me, that accent is quite rhythmical. It might match or be on par to part of an American one maybe. Obv i think US ones are more twangy ,Pretty , like they r singing all the time but the .range ? idk kind of goes up , similar pattern . I think some dialect does include some sound of the voice. It can depend. i am not no expert on this. I will usually say barth but also if i feel knacked i will say barf basically ...just cause. doing it now.
Different tonality .,, ..articulation... different days .
I like that quote there on the locked Linguistic thread haha ..I mean I would say , yeah It is down to the roots of where one is born and if and when they move to wherever , they will build up many tonality's within their voices and then that is the result to what we will hear , They might add a unique or different articulation if they feel like it. Voice , accents are so personal . So there cant be any pinning i guess. we all hear tone, pitch, differently. That's a given.
I don't have much to add , cause i feel like a parrot right now lol other than it is a thought poking thread and i think i will camp out in here with zin and macmandy and agonum!

Can someone confirm to me that Michael’s /S/ are special? They feel that way to me. Good examples in the CBS interview posted by @wendijane above.

To me ...im gonna say yes.. partly cause i want to believe that lol It is quite cool is'nt it ? I always got fascinated with how he pauses and add the extra depth. i just missed the s off of add myself then , cos it feels right it feels "Michael". I do that sometime..... Cool links all the way through this thread Thanxs again @Agonum for bumping this one.