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Marilyn Manson talks about Michael

Then it is the influence he has, on people that chose to listen to his music, that is offensive ?? We are angry at him for having that influence ??

It is not my goal to put him on a level with Michael Jackson ... don't confuse my intent. It was my assumption, that of all people, Michael Jackson fans could appreciate something being or looking a certain way .... being portrayed even worse than that image, by the media ... **sigh** it really doesn't matter *shrug* I understand what I mean.



RockWithLou said:
I thought you was shouting at me. :(
:toofunny:
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:no: not at all :flowers:
 
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Weill MJ chichi.. I find it we all have a duty to influence people in a good way..

If your kid were hanging around a bad person.. U would get angry at your kid for doing so, but that person would have to hold responsibility aswell for influencing him to do sertain things..

This is an extreme example but..

Take the MANSON Family murder.. (not corrilated to Marilon manson aside from the name, I'm not connecting them right now)..


CHARLES Manson, the mastermind behind it all.. did not even KILL anyone in the murders.. He set people like Susan Atkins etc... But was he found accountable for the murders??? YUP!!



Now this can go off into another subject too.. How so many bands etc.. Chose to sing about murders like the Manson family murders.. Some try to hide it and use names that are not so perdominant in the story so people wont know etc... That shows what part of the heart it's comming from..
 
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That's a good point made here I think, if one can't question something without hurting someone then it can't be called respectfull.
One can question religion respectfully, members on this board have proven that to me. One can question patriotism respectfully, it's not the only possible way to burn a flag... I'm sure.
Just because ppl are not creative enough to think of ways. Just because ppl crave attention (for money, or whatever)... it doesn't make it right.
It's somewhat also lame to think if you hurt ppl you'll make them overthink whatever.
KOPV is right, good intelligent ppl usually know other ways.
Well intelligence in it's core is neither good or evil... that's the ppl having the chance to use it both ways.

Still that's not the point of this thread I think... so back again if MM talked (thinks) negative or positively about MJ?
 
:flowers:

Has anyone ever actually listened to Marilyn Manson's work ??

I can appreciate that the style of music is not everyone's taste ... that is completely acceptable ... I am not trying to make anyone a fan.

People think they know the message he is sending and it is my contention, that some people are not actually aware of his intended message. In a free society the antidote to poisonous attitudes, poisonous words is not censorship. The answer is debate. More powerful words are needed to disinfect the poisonous words that exhist. He does not display it in a pretty way because the reality is not beautiful. Take the message of 'Marilyn Manson' seriously. The potential for evil, the potential to exult in violence, is within all of us. His displays, serve as a reminder, that this form of 'joyous freedom' leads to apocalypse . . . The truth is, we have given a level of 'beauty' to the 'Armageddon'. Marilyn Manson has a point when he declaims, "Antichrist Superstar . . . is . . . me and every other person in America . . . You are what you should fear." Manson asks that we see the evil within us & then, fight it with all our might.
 
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^ I am by no means saying Manson is bad with every fiber of his bone..

If you wait long enough you will see the good in everyone and anyone..

I could find things in his words that I could agree with.. But that does not make the others acceptable..

You CHOSE not to cursem do drugs, and talk about sex in a volgure manner infront of your children for what?? There is a reason to that..

There is a big difference between passive ressistance and aggressive resistance..

MLK = Passive ressistance
Ghandi = Passive ressistance

Aggressive resistance has good qualities in it.. Which is the PURPOSE behind it, but the action and reaction is brings too much negitivity.. It creates hate..

Agressive ressistance creates ressisance against the issue instead of solving it, and those on the other end will ressist you back.. Where as passive ressistance is standing strong through it all.. Not looking and creating more enemies..

To me it's the same difference as passing out LOVE instead of guns.. It's just verbally, and physically..

violence will always beget violence.. even verbal..
 
OK :yes: then the issue is not so much his message then. More so, the manner in which he is choosing to deliver it ?? I can swallow that ... it doesn't even taste half bad :giggle:

**whispers**

I never curse :no:

**listens to the laughter behind me**

:ranting SHUT THE :censored: UP !!

:trytobeangel:
 
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Gisselle2323 said:
Again he ripped up the bible because it was part of his rock star shock value gimmick. He does it as a business ploy. He gained many fans and huge controversy from all over because of his little business gimmick. He didn't do it out of disrespect it was all for shock value to gain controversy. The man even went to private Christina schools.
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That should make someone have even less respect for him. That he's doing it all for shock value, as a gimmick--not at all being truthful to himself. Just being an attention (you know what), and screwing people over.

Maybe he's turning into the 'powers that be' that he hates so much? Using a gimmick to sell his product to a mass teenage audience? Hmmmm...

Gatesy2006 said:
Pot. Kettle.Black.

Its funny MJ fans ripping on MM, looking at his public image and talking crap. How long has us MJ fans been defending MJ from people who are doing the same as people on here are doing about MM? Im a big MM fan but not as much as im a MJ fan, if anyone says anything bad about MJ I will defend him without doubt, but some MJ fans on here have to look at themselves. Really.

Theres alot of **** written about MM which is bullshit, just like MJ, do we believe all the stuff written about our idol? of course not. MM does stuff like people have already said, for shock value. He is a very talented musician, made some great albums and songs. I dont think hes weird at all, like I dont think Michael is weird despite what The Sun and various other newspapers say.

MM is great, MJ is great, end of story is far as Im concerned.
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So you're saying that Michael Jackson p*sses on people (and bibles) and rips up bibles and curses people's religious beliefs, and makes vile disgusting imagery?

Marilyn Manson does and says some disgusting things, and he admits it, straight up. It's true...we've actually seen him do these things, and heard him say these things.

Michael on the other hand has been accused of many things are NOT true, and that no one has actually seen him do or say, but has made up a story for controversial purposes.
 
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you dont like him and care not what his actual message is, because of the way he displays it. I think we can all respect that. All points have been taken :flowers:
 
It does not matter if Manson did something for shock value.. MOST shocking things are for SHOCK value..

most serial killers become that because they want to be known for something, they want to SHOCK the world.. That does not justify..

The reasons behind something does not justify the action.. While I could understand the reasonings most of the time in specific actions that does not make it right...

Not just Manson..

I mean if ur 12 year old kid pulled down his pants and mooned his class to shock his fellow classmates, and get attention, does that make it right??

If you read into ANYTHING deeply, we can understand the reasonings, and even find sympathy for that individual.. That's drug abusers, violent people, and various tormented people..

If a young woman was never loved, thrown out in the streets at 13 years old, it does not make it ok to start prostituting.. While we could see why she would resort to it, how it happened, and even what could trigger that event.. We would feel bad, we would want to reach out our hands to help.. But the action of prostition for WHATEVER reason is not right..

I'm not talking like my hands are clean either.. I have made bad choices, I know why I did it, and I could sit and tell you what a rough spot I was in that pushed me to that point.. But that will never make it right..


I think as human beings, we should TRY to be great roll models. If not we'll take people down with us..

And when we do stand before GOD, he will ask us what did we do to better the kingdom of heaven, he will ask us what we did with the gifts he given us..

We either will waist them, use them for evil/badness, to bring happyness and glorify God with it.. Then we will be accountable for our actions and every person we have strayed away from GOD because of the choices WE MADE..

EVERY incounter we have with a person can be THE breaking point.. What you say can either send someone into depression, suicide, stray from God, hate, or turn around from that 100%..

Our action creates a reaction in someone elses heart..

(I'm preachin' to myself too) lol! I aint perfect at all.. lol! I want to start a preaching thread now.. ha ha!
 
LovelyOne said:
So you're saying that Michael Jackson p*sses on people (and bibles) and rips up bibles and curses people's religious beliefs, and makes vile disgusting imagery?

Marilyn Manson does and says some disgusting things, and he admits it, straight up. It's true...we've actually seen him do these things, and heard him say these things.

Michael on the other hand has been accused of many things are NOT true, and that no one has actually seen him do or say, but has made up a story for controversial purposes.
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Were did I say MJ does that stuff? Manson does all that stuff as an act, for shock value public image, just like MJ wanted to come across as bizarre and eccentric in the mid 1980s. Its all about image. It doesnt mean he hates god or whatever. Hes a good PR man, just like Michael.
 
I have to say that even though him and I don't have the same beliefs, I admire Marilyn Manson for his bravery. He follows his own path in a world where people pretend that they're being "different" but still conform. He himself has said that he often "finds beauty in things that others find grotesque", I have to give him credit for stepping back and looking at the world from another angle.

For one I don't think anyone should compare MJ and Marilyn, they live in different creative worlds. It'd be like comparing zebras and dolphins lol, not too much in common.

I don't even see how religion talk got into this conversation. Marilyn is a self-proclaimed atheist. He has that right to not believe in religion, granted to him by the U.S. Constitution. None of us have the right to condemn him for what he believes (or doesn't believe). It's funny how if he was a Christian or Jewish, and looked down upon for being either of those, that wouldn't be ok. But because he's atheist, it doesn't count and people apparently feel that it's ok to tear him down. If you're gonna be fair, be fair all the way across the board, not just when it's convenient to you and what you personally believe. As far as Marilyn doing or saying "disgusting" things, I think that's a matter of personal taste. The next person might not think it so disgusting, while you are repulsed. Hey, everyone's different, and everyone's got the right to be different. As long as he's not breaking any laws, the only person Marilyn has to answer to is God. It's the man upstairs' job to judge people on their wrong-doings, not any of ours. If you don't like him, then don't pay attention to him lol.

I don't mean this at anyone directly, but human beings seem to pride themselves on pin-pointing out every other's differences and then ripping them to shreds. We'd be a whole lot better off as a race if we could tone down the vanity and arrogance, and turn the acceptance knob up a smidge.:no:
 
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:lol:

I get it peeps. marilyn manson is not high on the majority of people's lists. That is completely fine. It was my intention, to maybe point out, that he was not actually dissin' Michael ... as the topic went on, I also was making an effort to show people that they don't completely have all the facts, with regard to the message he attempts to send, in his music. That message is blurred a little bit toooo much for some of you. I get it :yes: The way he portrays and displays that message, is not acceptable and will not be acceptable to some of you. :agree: nah, back up off me :hysterical:
 
Mechi said:
That's a good point made here I think, if one can't question something without hurting someone then it can't be called respectfull.
One can question religion respectfully, members on this board have proven that to me. One can question patriotism respectfully, it's not the only possible way to burn a flag... I'm sure.
Just because ppl are not creative enough to think of ways. Just because ppl crave attention (for money, or whatever)... it doesn't make it right.
It's somewhat also lame to think if you hurt ppl you'll make them overthink whatever.
KOPV is right, good intelligent ppl usually know other ways.
Well intelligence in it's core is neither good or evil... that's the ppl having the chance to use it both ways.
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That's the point, never ever you will bring people to overthink things,those worth to be scrutinized, when you shock or hurt them, my experience is in the result you will achieve the opportunity :(
 
mjdove said:
That's the point, never ever you will bring people to overthink things,those worth to be scrutinized, when you shock or hurt them, my experience is in the result you will achieve the opportunity :(
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honestly ... i did not follow that statement ... I tried to ... even now, I am re-reading it and seriously attempting to see what was being conveyed ... the only thing I can grasp is that Dove agrees with Mechi's post. There :D I did it ... :unsure: I think ?? Tell me, did I read it close to correctly ??
 
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Gisselle2323 said:
Funny how you judge MM by the way he looks, when many judge MJ by his looks alone.
I don't mean to offend just pointing out.
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I don't judge him on his looks alone. I judge him on his whole performance which is very creepy and how he's ripped pages from a Bible and sang songs that are very offensive to me. People might say that it's just for show, but if he's willing to do that, it says something about him. Why would he want to come across as being a satanist who hates God and is creepy and scary? yes, people have called Michael names, but Michael has never tried to be offensive or anything like that. He's just been himself and tried to be unique, and it's not fair to make fun of someone for how they look.

Roxanne said:
so i should respect someone who has spit on jesus images, cursed God, ripped off the Bible and has met with the author of the satanic bible ? no thanks :)
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THANK YOU! Exactly! I am a Christian, and for anyone to do that for ANY reason at all, it's wrong. No one could do that just for show if they really felt it was wrong either.
 
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yall are just keeping this a circular argument ... let it go already. If you read the thread, you will see that this has all been done already. Change the disc in the CD drive :lol:
 
MJJChichi said:
Actually, it is not real life. It is a stage act. Devil worshipper ?? That has nothing to do with anything. That is a notion people have of him, based on their opinion of him. It is not fact...just like it is not fact that michael molested any children.

But in reply to you getting the point ... this was the point ...



and it was missed. ;)
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The difference is Michael was FALSELY accused of molesting children and would never do such a thing and is innocent. MM wasn't accused of something; the very words came out of his own mouth. No one made him say it, he performed the actions right up in public in front of everyone. Now if Michael molested kids in front of everyone, then it would be the same thing. Michael has been falsely accused and misjudged based on his looks, which is wrong. Michael has never done anything to hurt anyone else and tries to be a good example to others. If MM is being judged, it is the way he's wanted to be judged and perceived.
 
Gisselle2323 said:
Again he ripped up the bible because it was part of his rock star shock value gimmick. He does it as a business ploy. He gained many fans and huge controversy from all over because of his little business gimmick. He didn't do it out of disrespect it was all for shock value to gain controversy. The man even went to private Christina schools.
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The Bible should be something sacred; you don't rip it up as part of an act. That's b.s.
 
Uhm...I'm curious about something. I thought this thread was to discuss MM's comments about Michael....and not whether he is a freak or a satanist? :huh:

Honestly, if people really want to bash or love the guy, it would be best to do it in the Music makes the world go round section :flowers: (though there was a thread about him a while ago which didn't end up too well >.
 
:lol: Molesting Kids and what Marilyn Manson does on stage are in no way comparable ... period.

Those of you who dislike your perception of Marilyn Manson, are welcome to that perception. Whatever it is based on, it does not matter. That is the understanding and knowledge you wish to have of him. That has already been established and acknowledged, Numerous times, in this thread.

It has also been taken as a point, that regardless of the message he is actually attempting to convey ... many have no interest in his message because of the manner in which he choses to display that message.

My original point was, Marilyn Manson was not DISSING Michael Jackson. He was saying quite the opposite. He was implying that he was much more of a bad person than Michael is. Nobody wishes to address that though. Seemingly, since that fact ends the discussion ... pretty much. So right now, yall are keeping the hate for MM and his evil evil ways and that is your only point.

We get it. He is the spawn of satan and he repulses you. Every thing you have heard or read about him is a fact and you are sticking to that, with your bible tucked under your arm. Got it Thanks !!

You might want to remember this little discussion the next time you are having words with a Michael Jackson 'hater' ... somebody that choses to believe every mis conceived idea that anyone can place out there. Somebody that will not listen to your rational reasonings of things. Even though you place reality in front of them and watch them look at it ... they shut their eyes. Oops I might see the truth :doh:

:flowers: cheers thanks alot :flowers:

:p
 
MJJChichi said:
:lol: Molesting Kids and what Marilyn Manson does on stage are in no way comparable ... period.

Those of you who dislike your perception of Marilyn Manson, are welcome to that perception. Whatever it is based on, it does not matter. That is the understanding and knowledge you wish to have of him. That has already been established and acknowledged, Numerous times, in this thread.

It has also been taken as a point, that regardless of the message he is actually attempting to convey ... many have no interest in his message because of the manner in which he choses to display that message.

My original point was, Marilyn Manson was not DISSING Michael Jackson. He was saying quite the opposite. He was implying that he was much more of a bad person than Michael is. Nobody wishes to address that though. Seemingly, since that fact ends the discussion ... pretty much. So right now, yall are keeping the hate for MM and his evil evil ways and that is your only point.

We get it. He is the spawn of satan and he repulses you. Every thing you have heard or read about him is a fact and you are sticking to that, with your bible tucked under your arm. Got it Thanks !!

You might want to remember this little discussion the next time you are having words with a Michael Jackson 'hater' ... somebody that choses to believe every mis conceived idea that anyone can place out there. Somebody that will not listen to your rational reasonings of things. Even though you place reality in front of them and watch them look at it ... they shut their eyes. Oops I might see the truth :doh:

:flowers: cheers thanks alot :flowers:

:p
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Thank You!!!!!! You explained what I have been trying to explain!!!!
 
MJJChichi said:
:lol: Molesting Kids and what Marilyn Manson does on stage are in no way comparable ... period.

Those of you who dislike your perception of Marilyn Manson, are welcome to that perception. Whatever it is based on, it does not matter. That is the understanding and knowledge you wish to have of him. That has already been established and acknowledged, Numerous times, in this thread.

It has also been taken as a point, that regardless of the message he is actually attempting to convey ... many have no interest in his message because of the manner in which he choses to display that message.

My original point was, Marilyn Manson was not DISSING Michael Jackson. He was saying quite the opposite. He was implying that he was much more of a bad person than Michael is. Nobody wishes to address that though. Seemingly, since that fact ends the discussion ... pretty much. So right now, yall are keeping the hate for MM and his evil evil ways and that is your only point.

We get it. He is the spawn of satan and he repulses you. Every thing you have heard or read about him is a fact and you are sticking to that, with your bible tucked under your arm. Got it Thanks !!

You might want to remember this little discussion the next time you are having words with a Michael Jackson 'hater' ... somebody that choses to believe every mis conceived idea that anyone can place out there. Somebody that will not listen to your rational reasonings of things. Even though you place reality in front of them and watch them look at it ... they shut their eyes. Oops I might see the truth :doh:

:flowers: cheers thanks alot :flowers:

:p
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Well, my first response in this thread was about the actual topic, then others kept saying how MM isn't really a bad guy and just does stuff for show. That is why some of us have started talking about MM's character and how it got off track.

My comment about molesting someone and what Marilyn does was in direct response to the person I quoted. The reason people don't like Michael is because of two things: How he looks and that he has been accused of molestation and they choose to believe it. There is a total difference between him and Marilyn. I have no problem with Marilyn trying to be unique and I don't care at all who he chooses to worship. That doesn't matter to me at all. What I have a problem with is him choosing to act the way he does which influences others to be the same way. Do they know it's just an act or are there some people who curse God and have ripped up Bibles to be like him, thinking he was serious? No one should be that easily influenced, but they are. It is still their choice to act however they do and not his fault, but as someone else said, no one would want their kids being friends with someone who influenced them to do bad things.

I don't care if MM doesn't worship God, but I do care that he talks the way he does about God and rips up Bibles and spreads hateful messages around. If Michael was that way, I wouldn't like him either. I don't care how someone looks; I do care about their actions though. It says a lot about the real person and who they are.
I'm not trying to say that anyone who likes MM should not like him because that is your choice if you choose to like him. I am just explaining why I don't and the difference between him and Michael since others have tried to make a correlation between the two and how they have been mistreated or misjudged.
Maybe MM did mean it the opposite way of how I took it, but I don't know. I personally don't care if he likes Michael or not; in fact, it might be better if he didn't. :tease::D
 
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yall want to hear something that is MADDDDD Ironic ??

well, do you ?? No?? OK, nevermind :D


No :lol: seriously ... do you wanna hear this or not ?? I ain't waitin' all fricken day for an answer :rolleyes:


Alright, you want to hear some irony ?? OK, here goes ...

**whispers**
I don't even like Marilyn Manson's Music

he stage performance really does not interest me in the least. Still, I know what his message is and it is not hate or evil ... it is not written in praise of the devil or the like. His occupation is Shock Rocker and he does it very well. Once he steps off the stage he is no longer that persona. I understand that it is the persona that offends many. The bible issue is clear ... however, i could have a book that I hold sacred and you do not. To you it is only a book but to me it is sacred. You destroying it would mean nothing to me because I know you do not hold that book sacred. ...

**looks at himself in the mirror, and the reflection asks me**

Why are you still trying to explain this to people :lol: THEY DONT CARE :lol:

OK, my image just told me to shut up :hysterical:
 
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MJJChichi said:
yall want to hear something that is MADDDDD Ironic ??

well, do you ?? No?? OK, nevermind :D


No :lol: seriously ... do you wanna hear this or not ?? I ain't waitin' all fricken day for an answer :rolleyes:


Alright, you want to hear some irony ?? OK, here goes ...

**whispers**
I don't even like Marilyn Manson's Music
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:lol: I do, but not as much as i used to. But still quite funny MJCHICHI!
 
All this talk about what is right and what is wrong,. Those are just labels. Right and wrong changed with time place and culture. it isn't static. 12 year old mooning may not be right in your country, but it may be taken for granted in another country, esp places where 12 year olds go practically naked.

When I was a very little girl living in the caribbean, I do remember grown ups mooning when the arguments got fierce and out of control. It was just part of what happened when females argued agressively.
Last time I visited jamaica a fight broke out and 2 young ladies stripped stalk naked to have a fight. Fight over, they got dressed again and went on there merry way. No fuss was made about it, they had seen it all before.
 
oooo neked carribean peoples SIGN ME UP for that heated discussion :wild:
 
^^Marilyn Manson does not DENY any of the horrible things he's done or said, that are written about him that are true. We've SEEN him do these things and we've HEARD him say these things with our own ears and eyes.

Do ya get it?!!

Michael on the other hand has been accused of being a child molestor, which he is not (in my opinion, maybe you think he is), and a bad father, a freak, and so many other things.

Marilyn acts the way he does on purpose, and he WANTS to offend people. He WANTS people to call him a freak. He loves it. If he didn't, he wouldn't have built an entire career off of it.
 
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