Madonna sets trends?

[litia]

I'm wondering, what trends has Madonna set in her career? It's because I always see ppl claim that Madge's the queen of reinvention and she's always been the person who set new trends with her albums. IT's the reason why her album "fails" 'coz she's jumping on the bandwagon this time (It's what they said, not me LOL).

I'm curious about the later. I dont know how she's come to be credited with trend-setting. I'm not a huge fan of her. She's great but for me Madge is a little hit and miss so I never bother to learn more about her. Maybe some of her fans here can educate me?

Not that I'm doubting it, it's just I want to know. Hope this thread will not turn out to be a bloodfest :lol: :lol: *Waiting for answer from Jona* :lol:

 

[Rebirth]

Hope this thread will not turn out to be a bloodfest :lol: :lol: *Waiting for answer from Jona* :lol:

By these sentences, you are trying to provoke bloodfest intentionally from Jona. You could have left the last sentence in particular.

 

[Tony R]

Madonna sets trends for one my consistently releasing excellent quality music & videos for the last 25 years. Her music style is also eclectic and strayes in various genres from outright pop (True Blue) to hip hop (Erotica) to dance (Confessions) to R&B (Hard Candy).

Her videos continued Michael's trend in being groundbreaking (Express Yourself, Vogue, Like A Prayer) and she has always pushed the boundaries in what's acceptable and more importantly got people talking.

She has started dancefloor trends (Vogue) and fashion trends (in the 80s you couldn't move for girls being dressed like her).

Her stage shows have taken what MJ did to the next level and are always spectacular and ground breaking.

Even her one off performances for TV shows are fantastic and she doesn't just stand there miming to the CD. It's either a newly recorded version with a brand new routine (VMA Vogue) or a live, never before seen, shocking performance that'll get people talking (the whole Britney, Christina thing!).

The albums may vary in quality but you are always guaranteed at least 2 or 3 classic songs on each and you never have to wait that long between them.

If an album does 'fail' e.g. the vastly underrated American Life, she doesn't sit there wallowing, she'll come back with Hung Up & Confessions and make the world take notice again.

She's the only artist out of all the 80s greats that still has number one singles & albums today.

In summary, the reason she is groundbreaking is because she has inspired every female pop artist out there in the same way Mike has inspired the males.

 

[arXter]

In summary, the reason she is groundbreaking is because she has inspired every female pop artist out there in the same way Mike has inspired the males.

well apart from the fact that Michael has also inspired a significant amount of female artists, it's a very exaggerated statement to say he inspired all male artists. and it's more so untrue that Madonna inspired the amount you're suggesting, and certainly not in the "same way" (genius art vs. genius marketing).

in fact, come to think of what i consider some of the more artistically significant mainstream females (Lauryn Hill, Bjork, Erykah Badu, Sade Adu, Jill Scott etc. i.e. music-comes-first artists), they'd probably giggle at your claim. and those are the rarities that broke through commercially; there's more where these girls came from down in the underground.

i respect Madonna as an entertainment and pop cult entrepreneur, but musically in your "groundbreaking" terms? sorry.

 

[Tony R]

Okay, fair enough. I meant (and said) pop artists rather than all female musical artists.

She isn't just the marketing machine many think she is. She wouldn't have survived 25 years and still be at number one if so. Her fans aren't as loyal as Mike's, if they don't like something they don't buy it. Hence the peaks & troughs in her album sales.

Songs such as:
Like A Prayer
Hung Up
Vogue
Don't Tell Me
Music
Beat Goes On (next single)
American Life
Secret
Take A Bow
Ray Of Light
Justify My Love

etc...etc... all ooze quality and greatness. What has she had now, about 70 Top 10 singles? You can't do that just by changing your hair colour and talking about sex.

 

[arXter]

by mainstream i did mean Pop - because Pop isn't defined as any particular musical genre anymore (if it ever was).

if we're realistic in terms of inspiration, i really don't know what she attributed musically to the couple of generations that have gone by and so i don't see any groundbreaking effect she had on the music.

there's a good reason why most view her greatest achievement as the flawless marketing strategies over the years and i think you're underestimating the power of it.


just as an e.g. :

Miley Cyrus' Madonna wish

Published: Sunday, 6 July 2008, 7:59AM

Miley Cyrus wants to be the next Madonna.

The 15-year-old 'Hannah Montana' star - who recently caused controversy after posing for a raunchy magazine shoot - says the '4 Minutes' singer is her idol and wants to follow in her footsteps.

She said: "Madonna always reinvents herself, and that's what I want to do. Whatever comes my way that sounds good, that's what I want to do. Whether it's designing clothes or photography or whatever."​

 

[Tony R]

I suppose it's hard to define. But you can hear Madonna's sound in anything Britney, Kylie, Rhianna & Christina have done. Especially the first two. Before Madonna came around the female 'pop' artist didn't really exist in megastar form. The nearest we had was Debbie Harry (who obviously influenced Madonna).

Not to mention her concerts. Janet, Britney & Kylie virtually carbon copy them.

It's difficult to say which songs musically have inspired other songs. But the songs I mentioned above and most of the 60 odd I didn't are classic pop songs. Hence why her Immaculate Collection album has sold so well.

I think it's disingenuous to say that despite being the number one female artist consistently over 25 years she hasn't inspired anybody. That's got nothing to do with not liking her music. I'm not a big fan of David Bowie but I can see how influential he's been and he was all about image as well as music.

 

[arXter]

I suppose it's hard to define. But you can hear Madonna's sound in anything Britney, Kylie, Rhianna & Christina have done. Especially the first two. Before Madonna came around the female 'pop' artist didn't really exist in megastar form.

well i guess i'm not a big fan of their music (except Aguilera's voice), so i'll take your word on that however imo it's not a great testiment to the music since all four mentioned artists are less about the art and more about the image.

Not to mention her concerts. Janet, Britney & Kylie virtually carbon copy them.

that i acknowledge, and had in mind when i said "entertainment" in the first post.

I think it's disingenuous to say that despite being the number one female artist consistently over 25 years she hasn't inspired anybody. That's got nothing to do with not liking her music. I'm not a big fan of David Bowie but I can see how influential he's been and he was all about image as well as music.

wait wait, i never said she hasn't inspired anybody! i'm purely talking in terms of music, as i stressed before. shoot, i still can't get into Prince but i acknowledge and am fascinated by his strong influence.

i hope i didn't sound like i was just out to get Madonna lol i've defended her a lot on here, it's not about that.

 

[Tony R]

Don't worry, I'm not one to get annoyed or offended by debate or difference of opinion. I'm hearing you on the Prince thing. I'm somewhat a fan, but not massive but I can see his influence.

I guess this is one of those things we'll never truly know. if there had been no MJ, Madonna, Prince 25 years ago, what would the musical landsacpe be like now.

Scary thought?!

 

[arXter]

Don't worry, I'm not one to get annoyed or offended by debate or difference of opinion. I'm hearing you on the Prince thing. I'm somewhat a fan, but not massive but I can see his influence.

I guess this is one of those things we'll never truly know. if there had been no MJ, Madonna, Prince 25 years ago, what would the musical landsacpe be like now.

hah that's a big what-if but you know what, i kind of partly blame Michael's infectious ways of the crappy music we have today! it seems like all record execs had a meeting and said: "alright boys, we need the new Michael Jackson". and here we are - no risk-taking, no showcasing of creativity to the mainstream. i don't know, it just seems too gloomy at the moment.

 

[Tony R]

Ooh I hear that.

But I also feel a tinge of pride when I see JT, Chris Brown, Ne-yo et al doing their best MJ impressions. because no matter what crap has been thrown at Mike over the last 15 years and however much many may try to wipe him from the HIStory books, they simply can't do it. His influence is way too strong, stronger than Madonna or Prince or anybody.

 

[arXter]

But I also feel a tinge of pride when I see JT, Chris Brown, Ne-yo et al doing their best MJ impressions. because no matter what crap has been thrown at Mike over the last 15 years

absolutely, i'm a big supporter of these guys' public love for Mike no matter what i think of their music.

anyway, we focused off the topic now LOL my bad...

 

[litia]

By these sentences, you are trying to provoke bloodfest intentionally from Jona. You could have left the last sentence in particular.

Erh I inserted that sentence 'coz I know Jona's a big Madonna fan so she/he must know a lot about Madge :huh:. Trying to provoke bloodfest? No way. I love peace :lol: :lol:
BTW thanks Tony R for u answer :yes: :yes:

 

[Travis]

Don't worry about me. All I'm going to point out is the interesting quotes about Madonna being all about image [the whole laughable "She hasn't inspired anyone and I'm not a bitter hater" song and dance] as opposed to MJ. That's interesting. Last time I checked MJ is an incredibly visual artist. More often than not controversy swirled around what he was doing personally or in a video [wearing, hair, etc] rather than what he was singing or dancing to. Michael is obviously a very talented artist but it would be in vain to suggest he didn't use image heavily in his career. Why do you think he fell so hard after 1993? Image. And something to remember.... there are actually those of us out there who do find Madonna very talented. People who find messages in her music and take inspiration. I get tired of non fans speaking as though what they say is the gospel truth. Madonna rose from nothing, working harder than all the rest, to become what she is today- a self made entity and one of the last true icons/megastars.

 

[Tony R]

I also think that if any artist was to copy someone's entire career. Then Madonna is the one to choose. She's had longevity, tried her hand at many different types of music. Still having number ones after 25 years. Still doing exciting new concerts.etc...etc

Plus she's turned out amazingly level headed and sane bearing in mind she's probably the most famous woman on the planet.

 

[arXter]

All I'm going to point out is the interesting quotes about Madonna being all about image [the whole laughable "She hasn't inspired anyone and I'm not a bitter hater" song and dance] as opposed to MJ. That's interesting.

if this is a response to what i said about musical inspiration, then i'd be interested in a proper response that details her creative/artistic influence in the music side of the ever ironic 'music industry'. no one here said she hasn't inspired anyone, it helps to read the responses before exaggerating the very thing you detest.

 

[benscarr]

Madonna hasn't set any trends in music, for songs, videos or performances. She's not a a genius or an innovator. It's an insult to both Michael Jackson and Prince to have her name mentioned with them. When Madonna came on the scene Michael Jackson, David Bowie and Prince had already set the landscape for reinvention in music and image. And Michael was the first star to use MTV in music promotion for the masses. Nothing Madonna's ever done has surprised me, because Michael Jackson, David Bowie and Prince have done everything before her.

I'd say her only impact in music business is that women can now have a more powerful sexual image when performing, and that is an important influence. Her only other influence is bringing the contrived "reality" documentaries in to music , with her film In Bed with Madonna showing.

I will give Madonna credit in that she's recorded some great songs (I like about 3 of her songs), and she is brilliant performer with a lot of stage presence. Without doubt she's inspired a lot of female pop stars, and that is the reason she's the Queen of Pop. But she's not the cutting edge artist she leads her fans and public to believe. Madonna's press always state she's 2 steps ahead of everyone in music. You need to be an unreachable amount of steps ahead to be a true innovator, which is way Madonna isn't one.

 

[Tony R]

I don't understand how just because you don't like someone's music you completely disregard everything they've ever done.

I can't stand Bob Dylan or Hendrix but fully appreciate their influence & legacy.

 

[Travis]

I don't understand how just because you don't like someone's music you completely disregard everything they've ever done.

I can't stand Bob Dylan or Hendrix but fully appreciate their influence & legacy.

Such a great statement. This seems to be the general attitude and it is rather bothersome. If Madonna's music, videos, stage shows, documentaries, and image were not intricate then I highly doubt she would have college courses based on her. There is much more to Madonna than meets the eye. Especially to those who don't ever bother to step outside their own preconceived notions.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

other than the vogue era i really dont see much trend setting. nothing really stands out from the 90's through to now that would be much different to other music etc.maybe thats cause im an 80's child and vogue etc was her peak to alot of ppl so anything after that didnt really stand out

 

[daphnieas]

Just a heads up guys...don't make this a Madonna/MJ comparison thread.
Stay on topic please, and remember that even though this is first and foremost a Michael Jackson forum we also have Madonna fans around.

 

[arXter]

If Madonna's music, videos, stage shows, documentaries, and image were not intricate then I highly doubt she would have college courses based on her.

not to take anything else away from Madonna, but there's a college course on maple syrup.

There is much more to Madonna than meets the eye. Especially to those who don't ever bother to step outside their own preconceived notions.

it would help to argue the point instead of the point-maker. you've yet to respond to a legitimate argument about her influence/legacy on the actual art of music.

 

[litia]

Just a heads up guys...don't make this a Madonna/MJ comparison thread.
Stay on topic please, and remember that even though this is first and foremost a Michael Jackson forum we also have Madonna fans around.

Thank u, that's my intention when creating this topic. No MAdonna vs. Mj please. I just want to learn more about her, her career, her achievements, etc. I hope no one will say I create this topic to invoke another MJ vs. Madge war :no: :no: I love Michael but I also like Madge. For me she's the most outstanding female artist ever. :yes:

 

[litia]

Sorry for going off the topic but it's funny how most ppl in my country dont know what Vogue is but virtually everyone knows and likes/loves La Isla Bonita :lol: :lol:You'll see is also quite popular here. It's somewhat the same with Michael.ALL PPL love Heal The World but not many ppl I've asked know Billie Jean h34r:

I never get into Vogue though. My most favorite Madge songs are Live To Tell (awesome!:wub, La Isla Bonita, Papa Dont Preach,Material Girl, Take A Bow (I dont understand how so many fans hate it:huh: ) and Frozen. Apart from Frozen, they're not her most acclaimed songs LOL.
SOmeone told me that Madonna is the first to popularize Latin music with La Isla Bonita, is it true? I was quite surprised to discovered La Isla Bonita was first offered to Michael for Bad. Wow, cant imagine how he'd sing it :lol: :lol:

 

[DuranDuran]

SOmeone told me that Madonna is the first to popularize Latin music with La Isla Bonita, is it true? I was quite surprised to discovered La Isla Bonita was first offered to Michael for Bad. Wow, cant imagine how he'd sing it :lol: :lol:

From what I understand, Michael was offered the tune or melody, there were no lyrics. But Mike didn't like it, or didn't feel it was his style. When Madonna accepted it, Madonna and Patrick Leonard (one of her songwriting partners & producers) added lyrics and additional music to the demo. On the album this is from "True Blue", Jackie Jackson sings background vocals on "White Heat".
As far as latin music, it was 1st made popular in the USA by people like Astrud Gilberto or Antonio Carlos Jobim with bossa nova. Or even "Ricky Ricardo" (Desi Arnez) from I Love Lucy could be credited with introducing latin music to mainstream America. Latin music isn't just one style anyway.

 

[serena williams]

I have already ask this question time ago .

There is so much hype around Madonna , but the fact is that when "melowmen" talk about music , about who is the greatest etc... , i never see Madonna in the lists , there is always the same names brought : Beatles , MJ and Elvis .

Any discrimination against women ?

I would love to see the current artists inspired by Madonna , i like watching music videos but i dont see noboby unlike michael and his bunch of wannabes .

 

[daphnieas]

I heard this last night on a VH1 show about Madonna and I really think it expresses well why many of us don't think she's really that much of a trend setter:

'Madonna is not an innovator, she's a manipulator' implying that she has a talent to manipulate the media and the masses to her own advantage and I agree, personally I think she's a brilliant business woman but not really much of an innovative, trend setter artist.

 

[ExoticPrincess]

I'm finding one particular poster being so predictable right now, its laughable!

 

[ExoticPrincess]

I heard this last night on a VH1 show about Madonna and I really think it expresses well why many of us don't think she's really that much of a trend setter:

'Madonna is not an innovator, she's a manipulator' implying that she has a talent to manipulate the media and the masses to her own advantage and I agree, personally I think she's a brilliant business woman but not really much of an innovative, trend setter artist.

And that right there is the TRUTH!

End of story.

 

[Travis]

Here are some articles if anyone cares to read, speaking on Madonna's influence in music, video, stage, fashion, and everything in between during the last 3 decades. Madonna is easily one of the most influential stars in pop music. You can google to your hearts content and find article after article discussing the impressive legacy of Madonna. There is so much to this woman which is why so often many are left in debate. Unfortunately, there are also those who refuse to budge an inch because of their own preconceived ideals, regardless of the evidence presented to them to say otherwise. Love or hate her, there is only one Madonna.

http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/madonna/biography

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/e...objectid=18966107&siteid=66633-name_page.html

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080307/ENT04/803070474/0/METRO

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/57423/madonna_pop_artist_icon_woman_of_change.html?cat=33

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A6959307

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/6611/madonnas_impact_on_society.html?cat=33

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1421976.stm