July 28, 2009 Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

anyway..the point of my post is why is there even a question about toxology if there are no needlemarks mentioned in the original autopsy report

because many things have occured since the initial report, the world didn't stop there? autopsies have been requested by the family, a nurse came out talking about propofol, etc. a tox report is helpful because michael jackson was found with a lot of medication on him. a tox report is a good thing because it will find a more accurate cause of death. and after all of that, a doctor came out admitting to administering propofol. there was always needlemarks. he was found with ivs around him?

as for all the other doctors this is also in light of recently revealed information?
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

What Murray said was the landline wasn't working and he didn't use his cell to call because he didn't know the address, which I find amazing since he had to drive his car there and you'd think he'd at least know what STREET he was on. Not credible. As for panic, well, maybe his security and whatnot might panic, but Murray is a cardiologist. You would think a cardiologist would have plenty of experience in such situations and would be expected to at least respond with proper treatment out of habit. Makes no sense.

You speak sense though. Exactly a trained cardiologist should not panic and he should know the address he drove his car too!
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

because many things have occured since the initial report, the world didn't stop there? autopsies have been requested by the family, a nurse came out talking about propofol, etc. a tox report is helpful because michael jackson was found with a lot of medication on him. a tox report is a good thing because it will find a more accurate cause of death. and after all of that, a doctor came out admitting to administering propofol. there was always needlemarks. he was found with ivs around him?

as for all the other doctors this is also in light of recently revealed information?

that doesn't change the fact about the original autopsy. there were not always needlemarks on him. that's not what the original autopsy report said. the original report said NO TRAUMA. we can't change the original report from black, to white. no matter how many times the world keeps spinning. everything else you described can very well be considered to be the same operation as mere rumour spreading. it can be very unreliable and irresponsible. and like your post..full of questionmarks. and it's irresponsible to turn questionmarks and rumor-like operating, into absolute fact and truth. it's a snowball effect, and it doesn't guarantee anything, except that the media is spreading the picture of Michael, that they always wanted to spread..that of a druggie. and, by the way, you are wrong. they did not find many drugs 'on him'. that's just hearsay..and that alludes to the danger of what kind of media/government operation that is coming across, here.
 
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Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

that doesn't change the fact about the original autopsy. everything else you described can very well be considered to be the same operation as mere rumour spreading. it can be very unreliable and irresponsible. and like your post..full of questionmarks. and it's irresponsible to turn questionmarks and rumor-like operating, into absolute fact and truth. it's a snowball effect, and it doesn't guarantee anything, except that the media is spreading the picture of Michael, that they always wanted to spread..that of a druggie. and, by the way, you are wrong. they did not find many drugs 'on him'. that's just hearsay..and that alludes to the danger of what kind of media/government operation that is coming across, here.

note i didn't use the term 'drugs', i said 'medication' which is true because michael had a lot of ailments. my question marks were posed as rhetorical questions because i didn't want to sound harsh. and, um, it doesn't change the original autopsy that was printed since we can't go back to the past but the days that followed changed reality.

also you keep going on about 'no trauma' as if it means something when someone here has looked up the definition and needle marks do not constitute as 'trauma'.

found the medical definition of trauma: Medically, "trauma" refers to a serious or critical bodily injury, wound, or shock. A needlemark would not fall under that definition because a needlemark alone would not be a serious or critical bodily injury or wound. The results of the needlemark (what was injected/infused) could be the cause of death, though, so that's why the tox needed to be done. Also, it's very likely that Michael received injections when receiving the final emergency medical treatment - drugs to try to get his heart started. So needlemarks aren't trauma or cause of death, it's what is injected/infused that would be the cause of death.

anyway, i'm going to leave it here because i don't really get where you're going with this. i just wanted to answer the question you asked about the purpose of the tox report. ta!
 
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Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

note i didn't use the term 'drugs', i said 'medication' which is true because michael had a lot of ailments. my question marks were posed as rhetorical questions because i didn't want to sound harsh. and, um, it doesn't change the original autopsy that was printed since we can't go back to the past but the days that followed changed reality.

also you keep going on about 'no trauma' as if it means something when someone here has looked up the definition and needle marks do not constitute as 'trauma'.

anyway, i'm going to leave it here because i don't really get where you're going with this. i just wanted to answer the question you asked about the purpose of the tox report. ta!

well..in truth, we don't know about the number of ailments. MJ's life is mostly a mystery. and yes..needlemarks can be construed as trauma. anyway, you didn't answer my question about the tox report.

if anything, this all could be about keeping up appearances. and, yes..medication is drugs. cough syrup can be considered a drug.

the problem with your definition of how the world works and how new info keeps coming up, is..it still comes across as rumour spreading and tabloid. and people find it too easy to accept as truth. and, before you know it...somebody's head is on a platter, and then, you look back and say..whoops...i made a mistake. meanwhile, it's even possible that real perpetrators might get away with something.

meanwhile, according to a lot of messageboards, the media seems to have accomplished what they wanted. people on those boards are calling MJ a suicidal druggie, and blaming him. and there simply is NO PROOF of anything, yet. NOTHING. but people on boards are speaking as if there is proof.

it's just like when Neverland was raided, and nothing was found, and people on boards were still calling MJ a child molestor.
you are not wanting to sound harsh. well..i would think an MJ fan would not want to be falsely accusing, when they know that was and is what some people like to do with MJ.

it's unfortunate that rumor can equal truth, for some. and that added info can be automatically regarded as truth, for some.

you make it sound as if person A can say the sky is blue, then a number of persons can be added, and by the time we get to person Z, who says the sky is green, then, ok..the sky is green. and you make it sound like that's ok.

and it's not a good idea to argue semantics if you want to come across as solid in a statement(medications/drugs trauma/wounds etc.). FYI i have this nasty habit of looking up all the words i use, in several dictionaries, before i post.

a wound is considered trauma. the definition of a wound is the breaking of the skin and underlying tissue. whether you do that with a needle a surgical knife, a bullet or a car accident, it's still a wound. some might think that in a case like this, this kind of accuracy and attention to detail is important.
 
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Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

but again that doesn't make sense. How much sleep could Michael possibly get if constantly stuck with needles? That would defeat the purpose. And 1 to 2 injections wouldn't last an hour because it wears off fast. If he had even one injection meant to make him sleep more than 20 minutes or so, then that one injection would stop his breathing.

Actually its possible you can give at least 6 times the normal maintenance dose after the induction doses. And then its possible you wake up an hour or even more later. Of course its very dangerous and should be used in serious operations only. Very much smaller doses are enough usually and those are those that keeps you sleep only for minutes...
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Actually Lidocaine only has anesthetic effects when given locally ( like we use in dentistry ) but given IV it has an arrhythmic effect, as does epinephrine. Which brings me to the lower quote.

If his heart stopped then aside from CPR and shocks ( which I guess Murray never did since he didn't have a deffibrilator - major question sign for a cardiologist :no:) then he would have injected him with epi since it's a cardiac stimulant. Sometimes it works, other times...:no::no: It depends what other meds were in his system and how they interacted . And either wasy if the problem stared from respiratory depression then that would have been the thing to fix as well, not just the heart.
I still can't believe this happened. This shouldn't have happened...

Me too, I still can't believe this has happened :-( I think lidocaine could have been used to reduce pain from diprivan on administration and in the resus attempts.



Here is a fairly good and detailed document about Diprivan from AstraZeneca, a few paragraphs from this are copied below:

http://www1.astrazeneca-us.com/pi/diprivan.pdf?redirected=yes


"Information for Patients: Patients should be advised that performance of activities requiring mental alertness, such as operating a motor vehicle, or
hazardous machinery or signing legal documents may be impaired for some time after general anesthesia or sedation."

"Drug Interactions: The induction dose requirements of DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion may be reduced in patients with intramuscular or intravenous
premedication, particularly with narcotics (e.g., morphine, meperidine, and fentanyl, etc.) and combinations of opioids and sedatives (e.g., benzodiazepines,
barbiturates, chloral hydrate, droperidol, etc.).
These agents may increase the anesthetic or sedative effects of DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion and may also
result in more pronounced decreases in systolic, diastolic, and mean arterial pressures and cardiac output."

"WARNINGS
For general anesthesia or monitored anesthesia care (MAC) sedation, DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion should be administered only by persons trained
in the administration of general anesthesia and not involved in the conduct of the surgical/diagnostic procedure. Patients should be continuously
monitored, and facilities for maintenance of a patent airway, artificial ventilation, and oxygen enrichment and circulatory resuscitation must be immediately
available.
"

"During maintenance of anesthesia or sedation, the rate of DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion administration should be adjusted according to the desired level
of anesthesia or sedation and may be reduced in the presence of supplemental analgesic agents (e.g., nitrous oxide or opioids)."

"Attention should be paid to minimize pain on administration of DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion. Transient local pain can be minimized if the larger veins of
the forearm or antecubital fossa are used. Pain during intravenous injection may also be reduced by prior injection of IV lidocaine (1 mL of a 1% solution).
Pain on injection occurred frequently in pediatric patients (45%) when a small vein of the hand was utilized without lidocaine pretreatment. With lidocaine
pretreatment or when antecubital veins were utilized, pain was minimal (incidence less than 10%) and well-tolerated."
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

2 think all of this could've been avoided had the doctor not given Michael medication that should only be used by a trained professional in a HOSPITAL
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

murray has no defense to anything.

no reason y he allowed mj to take that med while under his care

no reason y he administered it to him

no reason y he left the room

no reason y he didn't call 911 the minute he found him

no reasony he overruled the emt's at the scene and got in their way

no reason y he refused to call the TOD at the house

no reason y didn't accompany mj to the hospital as the treating doctor

no reason y he had people access his storage unit...that he hadn't accesed in more than a month

no reason y he feels that he didn't give any that killed mj...diprivan can killl and it did
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Me too, I still can't believe this has happened :-( I think lidocaine could have been used to reduce pain from diprivan on administration and in the resus attempts.



Here is a fairly good and detailed document about Diprivan from AstraZeneca, a few paragraphs from this are copied below:

http://www1.astrazeneca-us.com/pi/diprivan.pdf?redirected=yes


"Information for Patients: Patients should be advised that performance of activities requiring mental alertness, such as operating a motor vehicle, or
hazardous machinery or signing legal documents may be impaired for some time after general anesthesia or sedation."

"Drug Interactions: The induction dose requirements of DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion may be reduced in patients with intramuscular or intravenous
premedication, particularly with narcotics (e.g., morphine, meperidine, and fentanyl, etc.) and combinations of opioids and sedatives (e.g., benzodiazepines,
barbiturates, chloral hydrate, droperidol, etc.). These agents may increase the anesthetic or sedative effects of DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion and may also
result in more pronounced decreases in systolic, diastolic, and mean arterial pressures and cardiac output."

"WARNINGS
For general anesthesia or monitored anesthesia care (MAC) sedation, DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion should be administered only by persons trained
in the administration of general anesthesia and not involved in the conduct of the surgical/diagnostic procedure. Patients should be continuously
monitored, and facilities for maintenance of a patent airway, artificial ventilation, and oxygen enrichment and circulatory resuscitation must be immediately
available."

"During maintenance of anesthesia or sedation, the rate of DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion administration should be adjusted according to the desired level
of anesthesia or sedation and may be reduced in the presence of supplemental analgesic agents (e.g., nitrous oxide or opioids)."

"Attention should be paid to minimize pain on administration of DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion. Transient local pain can be minimized if the larger veins of
the forearm or antecubital fossa are used. Pain during intravenous injection may also be reduced by prior injection of IV lidocaine (1 mL of a 1% solution).
Pain on injection occurred frequently in pediatric patients (45%) when a small vein of the hand was utilized without lidocaine pretreatment. With lidocaine
pretreatment or when antecubital veins were utilized, pain was minimal (incidence less than 10%) and well-tolerated."

^^THIS


makes me die inside...just, die inside...

why? why? why?
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

omg way better than silver fox

thanks for informative vid!

I like him 2, butttttttttttttttttttt he may have a boyfriend, so I don't think he would want me as his girlfriend.. oh well i can crush on him from a distance..

Paging Dr. Gupta, I need your advice... lol

I watched it on AC's show last night and I about died at how quickly that man stopped breathing and how quickly they had him hooked up to oxygen
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Given that the autopsy report shows no needle marks other than those injected in Michael's heart to revive him

Given that the doctor's lawyer has rubbished stories going around and said the doctor never gave Michael something that would kill (propofol can kill)

Notice that the "source" the media is using in the police is speculating as to the cause of death. Now, police draw up theories, just like we can draw up theories, that doesn't mean the theory is true. It simply means it's one of the theories they have to investigate.
But for this policeman, it was the most profitable theory to leak for a quick pay check from the media.

I think we need to slow down buying into the propofol story, since the media has to run with that, as they have no other information.

STOCKING UP DIPRIVAN BEFORE TOUR

Here is a possibility. Diprivan was in the house, but not yet used because Michael was not yet on tour.
Michael used it on the HIStory tour when he couldn't sleep.

Given that police did not take away other equipment required to administer diprivan, the cardiologist is unlikely to have been careless to do it without the machines and then leave the room, especially when he's not an anaesthologist as the packet clearly states how it should be used.

Now, the cardiologist needed to stock drugs that he would use in the UK if needed, to treat Michael. He also had to stock diprivan which might be needed to help Michael sleep.
But he hadn't used it yet as he still had a week or two to finish his list and get the other equipment needed either from the US or in UK.

Michael returns and complains he is not feeling well, so the doctor prescribes something and Michael goes to sleep.

The doctor passes by the room to check on Michael and finds his pulse is low. He tries to wake him but Michael is unresponsive, so he starts CPR.

CPR takes a bit too long till the doctor decides it's not helping, he rushes and gets the chef to call 911. The chef gets the security guard to do so.

Emergency arrives and the doctor is busy still trying to do CPR, so the paramedics see Dr Murray as being in their way.

While focussing on getting a stronger pulse, Dr Murray forgot to put Michael on the floor and did CPR on the bed, as many doctors are known not to follow procedures by the book, just as pilots at times don't go through all the steps in the rule book while preparing for take-off but when an incident happens, that skipped step becomes magnified.

Murray goes in the ambulance and still believes Michael can be revived, therefore does not want the paramedics to pronounce him dead. This is later seen as him not wanting to carry the can, but often no one would want a loved one pronounced dead till everything possible has been done as the person could have slipped into a coma. Paramedics see him as still being in the way.

When Michael passes away, Dr Murray asks the family to get a second autopsy, because he is also suspicious how suddenly Michael could have died. He knows the pills he gave him couldn't kill and he suspects foul play too or some other condition given Michael's complaint of not feeling well when he returned.

When police announce they want to speak with the doctor who was with Michael, the media go after Murray, saying he ran away, which is a lie as he was at the hospital after travelling there in the ambulance.

The police speak to Murray and he lets them know of the medication he had stocked up before leaving for London.

Police go and take that medication on top of medication already taken away in his car that they towed away and the media starts about the amount of drugs in Michael's home

Given that diprivan was found, when the nutritionist comes along with the diprivan story, it all seems to match.

Everyone starts running around with the diprivan theory given the nutritionist story and it being found on the premises (that's if it was there)

and they conveniently forget autopsy reports of no needle marks.


Therefore, i think it's best to wait for 2 things
  • The toxicology report
  • and the minute by minute account by Dr Murray of his time with Michael in the last days
As Geragos said in 2003, it takes 2 sides for the truth to be heard.

At the moment, we haven't heard Dr Murray's side of the story and full account of what transpired and we are passing judgement.
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Given that the autopsy report shows no needle marks other than those injected in Michael's heart to revive him

Where was this said?

Given that the doctor's lawyer has rubbished stories going around and said the doctor never gave Michael something that would kill (propofol can kill)

This is not true. What the lawyer actually said was the doctor did not give Michael anything that SHOULD have caused his death. Very important word choice. Propofol shouldn't cause death, especially if with proper monitoring, but it most certainly can. Also, while other medications were denied by the lawyer, propofol/Diprivan was not.

The doctor passes by the room to check on Michael and finds his pulse is low. He tries to wake him but Michael is unresponsive, so he starts CPR.

If Michael had ANY pulse at all, then CPR should not be done.

While focussing on getting a stronger pulse, Dr Murray forgot to put Michael on the floor and did CPR on the bed, as many doctors are known not to follow procedures by the book, just as pilots at times don't go through all the steps in the rule book while preparing for take-off but when an incident happens, that skipped step becomes magnified.

First, a cardiologist should not "forget" proper CPR procedures. Second, I found this:
"Miranda Sevcik, a spokeswoman for Dr. Murray, said the physician braced one hand behind Jackson's back and used the other to perform chest compressions."

"To think that you could have sufficient compression with one arm behind the individual and another trying to do CPR just makes no sense," said Douglas Zipes, MD, past president of the American College of Cardiology (ACC). "Even in a debilitated, 110-pound person, you're going to need both hands."

http://www.medpagetoday.com/EmergencyMedicine/EmergencyMedicine/14905

CPR with one hand on an adult is not EVER right.

At the moment, we haven't heard Dr Murray's side of the story and full account of what transpired and we are passing judgement.

We haven't heard a full account for sure, but what we have heard from his lawyer and spokesperson sure isn't good.
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

but again that doesn't make sense. How much sleep could Michael possibly get if constantly stuck with needles? That would defeat the purpose. And 1 to 2 injections wouldn't last an hour because it wears off fast. If he had even one injection meant to make him sleep more than 20 minutes or so, then that one injection would stop his breathing.

Lacey I thought i woud explain to you that MJ was on an IV drip
one needle attached to his arm the medicine goes through a tube
he is not constantly stuck with needles _ the injection go into
the IV bag or tube attched to it .. so every 2 hours or as needed
the doctor or anisthethiologist would inject more medicine as needed
into the tube - to keep MJ asleep .. I hope that helps - becuase
Im sure what you were thinking was very scary for you :better:

Mj was not being constanty injected with needles for this procedure
But I will say this was very reckless and dangerous if Mjs doctor was using that for a sleep aid and especially
without any equipment to monitor his heart rate breathing and equpment to provide adequet CPR .. and especially
a phone would be considered wise in case of an emergency. Most Doctors would have that ready and working :doh:

for this DR to think administering this medicine didnt need any such procautions is mind boggling_

BUt so far we dont even know what was administered to MJ
becuase no report has been issued _ its all unknown sources
providing conflicting infornmation _ fake toxology reports etc etc.

We still know NOTHING :( about what the cause of death is
even the media is saying that so far its all speculation
and they know nothing untill the reports come out ..
 
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Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

this was a huge reality check: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/health/2009/07/29/gupta.propofol.demo.cnn?iref=videosearch

i think anytime we discuss propofol now we have to really know how it's administered (the video will show you this), how mike was put under it and how totally nuts it was that doc murray was doing this on his own in some bedroom without any equipment. ridic.
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

i dunno what to say ......except :sad:
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

this was a huge reality check: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/health/2009/07/29/gupta.propofol.demo.cnn?iref=videosearch

i think anytime we discuss propofol now we have to really know how it's administered (the video will show you this), how mike was put under it and how totally nuts it was that doc murray was doing this on his own in some bedroom without any equipment. ridic.

How could Michael agree to this shit? I'm scared only by looking at the video. And they said you can't breath by your own, so something must have helped him breathing..Maybe they had some equipment that got broken..
 
the initial autopsy report said 'there was NO trauma to the body.'

yet, now the press and the government are saying there will be results of a TOXICOLOGY REPORT. how can there be a tox report, without trauma to the body??

does not trauma include at least one needle mark? shouldn't the autopsy report have been worded differently? of all reports the people writing this are at task to be the most responsible people in the world. shouldn't the autopsy report not have any words relating to 'no trauma', if there is a needlemark? apparently there is no needlemark, according to the way the original announced report was written.


I totally agree with what Lacey said, a needle mark isn't considered trauma. And a tox report is standard in autopsies anyway and especially in this case where there's no apparent cause of death ( as in physical ).

None of them changed their habits/patterns on the day Mike died, like how the Cook said Murray did.

What did the cook say about his 'habits'? Must have missed that bit of info.

Given that the autopsy report shows no needle marks other than those injected in Michael's heart to revive him
Given that the doctor's lawyer has rubbished stories going around and said the doctor never gave Michael something that would kill (propofol can kill)
Notice that the "source" the media is using in the police is speculating as to the cause of death. Now, police draw up theories, just like we can draw up theories, that doesn't mean the theory is true. It simply means it's one of the theories they have to investigate.
But for this policeman, it was the most profitable theory to leak for a quick pay check from the media.
I think we need to slow down buying into the propofol story, since the media has to run with that, as they have no other information.
STOCKING UP DIPRIVAN BEFORE TOUR
Here is a possibility. Diprivan was in the house, but not yet used because Michael was not yet on tour.
Michael used it on the HIStory tour when he couldn't sleep.
Given that police did not take away other equipment required to administer diprivan, the cardiologist is unlikely to have been careless to do it without the machines and then leave the room, especially when he's not an anaesthologist as the packet clearly states how it should be used.
Now, the cardiologist needed to stock drugs that he would use in the UK if needed, to treat Michael. He also had to stock diprivan which might be needed to help Michael sleep.
But he hadn't used it yet as he still had a week or two to finish his list and get the other equipment needed either from the US or in UK.
Michael returns and complains he is not feeling well, so the doctor prescribes something and Michael goes to sleep.
The doctor passes by the room to check on Michael and finds his pulse is low. He tries to wake him but Michael is unresponsive, so he starts CPR.
CPR takes a bit too long till the doctor decides it's not helping, he rushes and gets the chef to call 911. The chef gets the security guard to do so.
Emergency arrives and the doctor is busy still trying to do CPR, so the paramedics see Dr Murray as being in their way.
While focussing on getting a stronger pulse, Dr Murray forgot to put Michael on the floor and did CPR on the bed, as many doctors are known not to follow procedures by the book, just as pilots at times don't go through all the steps in the rule book while preparing for take-off but when an incident happens, that skipped step becomes magnified.
Murray goes in the ambulance and still believes Michael can be revived, therefore does not want the paramedics to pronounce him dead. This is later seen as him not wanting to carry the can, but often no one would want a loved one pronounced dead till everything possible has been done as the person could have slipped into a coma. Paramedics see him as still being in the way.
When Michael passes away, Dr Murray asks the family to get a second autopsy, because he is also suspicious how suddenly Michael could have died. He knows the pills he gave him couldn't kill and he suspects foul play too or some other condition given Michael's complaint of not feeling well when he returned.
When police announce they want to speak with the doctor who was with Michael, the media go after Murray, saying he ran away, which is a lie as he was at the hospital after travelling there in the ambulance.
The police speak to Murray and he lets them know of the medication he had stocked up before leaving for London.
Police go and take that medication on top of medication already taken away in his car that they towed away and the media starts about the amount of drugs in Michael's home
Given that diprivan was found, when the nutritionist comes along with the diprivan story, it all seems to match.
Everyone starts running around with the diprivan theory given the nutritionist story and it being found on the premises (that's if it was there)
and they conveniently forget autopsy reports of no needle marks.
Therefore, i think it's best to wait for 2 things
- The toxicology report
  • and the minute by minute account by Dr Murray of his time with Michael in the last days
As Geragos said in 2003, it takes 2 sides for the truth to be heard.
At the moment, we haven't heard Dr Murray's side of the story and full account of what transpired and we are passing judgement.

I can definitely see your point even though there are some holes in it that Lacey has talked about.
However, how would there have been foul play if Murray himself hadn't done anything? Who else had access to Mike that could have done something to him, without Murray noticing, especially is he was living there and was "monitoring" Mike? Without other ppl noticing? Unless he suspects any of the staff or bodyguards doing smth, then it doesn't make much sense.

I really wonder if we'll ever find out the whole truth, just bc the police find things or there's this report and that, it doesn't meant that they have to release absolutely everything to the public. I pray that they do though and that justice will be done.:(
 
seems murray is behind with his mortgage payments too.
lets hope hes got some of mic i mean his own money too pay it.
 
The doctor is a cover up. Yes he probably gave him those drugs, he'll say he was wrong too and say the death was accidental and what he did was panic... like Lacey said why would a trained cardiologist panic? So I won't buy any of his testimony. He'll do a little time and then be free be out there in the world and change his identity then use money left for him in a swiss bank a/c under his new name. Left for him by those who are really behind 'in my opinion' Michael's 'planned' death.

We may never know the truth I know. I wonder with the money Michael owed people if he'd ever have had peace alive as he is worth more to all those people now dead :( He was only worth more alive to some family members, good friends and us the fans. I know Michael was very intelligent(check his Oxford speech) but... this Tohme guy... he was the one pushing for the auction to go ahead, Michael stopped it obviously never wanted that to happen... was it the same for the amount of 02 gigs?!

I've just walked my dogs and was thinking it through in my head away from the computer and my current conclusion is:My eye is on Dr Tohme Tohme and Jermaine and their links to Colony Capital who own Neverland who in turn are also friends with the owner of AEG. Especially as Jermaine is the one pushing the Neverland burial(in which case Neverland would 'profit' more if opened to the public) and his current wife is the ex of Tohme... This article talks of the link between Colony and AEG http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-michael-jackson31-2009may31,0,1441957.story?page=1 I feel Sony is involved somewhere... as they had that $60m ready so quick to pay for rehearsal footage and now they will benefit highly from his death in music sales. I just want to know of Sony may be connected to the rest mentioned above... Oh I wish this didn't exist to talk about and Michael was still here :(

As I said many times, we may never know the truth but... knowledge is power and so if we work out anymore bits to this that don't add up. I believe we should discuss it.
 
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