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July 28, 2009 Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

@Heartbreak,
I got my skillet ready to fry up some bologna, cuz I can see now I better start cooking it now cuz I will have to make about 1000 fried bologna sandwiches to throw at Witch doctor Murray..
*sidenote* My play husband Dr. Gupta works about 15mins from my house here in Atlanta..
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

#1MJstan said:
@Heartbreak,
I got my skillet ready to fry up some bologna, cuz I can see now I better start cooking it now cuz I will have to make about 1000 fried bologna sandwiches to throw at Witch doctor Murray..
quot
Id throw mudd in his face.....he doesnt deserve bologna lol
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Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

White bread too. Wonder bread. Stale so it's nice and hard. He's not good enough for whole wheat. Oh and warm mayo on 'em too.
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

I'm thinking walmart bread.. that shit is only fresh for 2 day b4 it starts going hard on ya..
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

#1MJstan said:
I'm thinking walmart bread.. that shit is only fresh for 2 day b4 it starts going hard on ya..
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Uh huh. The bread that's already on the half off rack cause it's 5 seconds away from molding. THAT bread.
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Seriously I want the doctor to explain to family, the judge, and the jury, why he gave MJ a medicine that can quickly cause someone to stop breathing..
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Topflux said:
This is what I have been saying too. That he was like "manually" injected and I believe it was and was meant to be all through the night. And Ive heard the dr probably gave him more to go somewhere himself or then he gave it accidentically. Because otherwise propofol cant be the cause of his death. And also relaxants and licodine he gave Michael before may have something to do with it. Its possible they affected somehow propofol using.

I think someone has been mixing things with Michael in EKG machine and Michael with iv in his arm.
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I'm not understanding what you're saying. Propofol given as a "bolus" only lasts a matter of minutes. To give enough iv push to sedate someone for more than say 20 minutes, it would knock out the respiratory drive. Why would anyone use boluses for sleep, the patient would be in and out of it at frequent intervals. Diprivan is given as an IV drip for sedation/anesthesia, not in boluses. A bolus may be given prior to intubating a pt, and then placed on a ventilator; or perhaps a bolus may be given to do a short procedure, but that person is then awake within a short period of time. A continuous drip is started if needed to maintain sedation, either on or off a ventilator, but always with continuous monitoring bp, hr, O2 saturation, resp rate. Without a drip, it would be like riding an up and down roller coaster of sedation with boluses, what would be the point of that if there is an iv in place? And you surely would not be puncturing the pt every few minutes over a period of hours to access a vein each time to give the propofol to maintain sedation.

Sorry, maybe something is lost in translation here; and what does "Michael in EKG machine and Michael with iv in his arm" mean?
 
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Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

MJstarlight said:
Just saw this on msn home page

AP source: Jackson doc gave him anesthetic drug before death
July 27, 2009, 5:12 PM EST
LOS ANGELES (AP)
The temperature upstairs was stiflingly hot, with gas fireplaces and the heating system on high because Jackson always complained of feeling cold, the official said.
Police found propofol and other drugs in the home. ."

http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx?news=422942&gt1=28102&
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This happen 17 years ago this lady was a teacher at my school she had the same problem likes Michael she was complaining how cold she was. The lady went to the doctor her doctor described her some medicine next couple days she died suddenly.
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

bgz said:
I'm not understanding what you're saying. Propofol given as a "bolus" only lasts a matter of minutes. To give enough iv push to sedate someone for more than say 20 minutes, it would knock out the respiratory drive. Why would anyone use boluses for sleep, the patient would be in and out of it at frequent intervals. Diprivan is given as an IV drip for sedation/anesthesia, not in boluses. A bolus may be given prior to intubating a pt, and then placed on a ventilator; or perhaps a bolus may be given to do a short procedure, but that person is then awake within a short period of time. A continuous drip is started if needed to maintain sedation, either on or off a ventilator, but always with continuous monitoring bp, hr, O2 saturation, resp rate. Without a drip, it would be like riding an up and down roller coaster of sedation with boluses, what would be the point of that if there is an iv in place? And you surely would not be puncturing the pt every few minutes over a period of hours to access a vein each time to give the propofol to maintain sedation.

Sorry, maybe something is lost in translation here; and what does "Michael in EKG machine and Michael with iv in his arm" mean?
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Im sorry I am not native english. But I mean CPR had the heart rate machine. Someone has mixed something Michael having an iv in his arm. He hadnt because the dr hadnt been practising that night very properly. There werent that much equipment in use (its different if they were in the house or in the room. But they were never used.

And about that puncturing. I heard thats exactly what the dr did. He gave Michael propofol once or twice in an hour. You can do that if the amount is 'enough'. But there are risks for example propofol's level rising all the time. I am not saying he did it all through the night and what happened, but he tried to maintain Michaels sleep by injections, not by dripping...
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

eternitys_child said:
This was in the first TMZ article today:



So here they say it was a drip or at least that is what the Dr. said it was. And Missy posted that a number of articles said he still had the IV in his arm but the bag on the stand was empty. I don't know which articles those were.
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The doctor says of course it was a drip (because it is somehow safer), and I dont know how he started it that night, but if someone saw the bag it could have been old too. The doctor could have staged that it was new. Or then someone just thought its related.
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

#1MJstan, HeartbreakHotelMJJ -- I CANNOT BELIEVE I MISSED THIS. YA'LL GOTTA TELL ME WHEN YA'LL BEING AWESOME. CAN'T BELIEVE I'VE BEEN IN THE WRONG THREADS! :lol:
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

daisydaisy said:
I think lidocaine is used sometimes in conjunction with diprivan because diprivan can cause a burning pain in the vein where the IV is situated. Lidocaine is used to numb this pain.
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Actually Lidocaine only has anesthetic effects when given locally ( like we use in dentistry ) but given IV it has an arrhythmic effect, as does epinephrine. Which brings me to the lower quote.

HeartbreakHotelMJJ said:
I'm watching. I can't believe this man was not breathing when EMT arrived. They are saying Murray was in control and wanted them to keep MJ at the house. They gave him drugs to revive him but would not say what those drugs were. One wonders if Murray even told them that he had used Diprovan or whatever the hell he used on MJ.
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If his heart stopped then aside from CPR and shocks ( which I guess Murray never did since he didn't have a deffibrilator - major question sign for a cardiologist :no:) then he would have injected him with epi since it's a cardiac stimulant. Sometimes it works, other times...:no::no: It depends what other meds were in his system and how they interacted . And either wasy if the problem stared from respiratory depression then that would have been the thing to fix as well, not just the heart.
I still can't believe this happened. This shouldn't have happened...
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Ok, isn't Propofol use for patients undergoing operations in the hospital?! So Murray use it on MJ for normal sleeping? Everyone would know these kind of chemicals are very dangerous if used regularly!
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Seriously, guys. With all this info coming out, how could Murray NOT end up spending some time in jail? I don't see how his lawyer could weasel a way out of this mess for him.
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Carina I agree, hey may not have those metal bracelets around his wrists just yet, but if the state of cali doesn't get him, the feds will and we can be at ease with that because he will serve everyday of his sentence, the feds don't believe in that early relsease crap.
I honestly don't believe he is going down alone, there are others that will be sweating trying to figure out if he is going to snitch on them
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Well according to TMZ (and I know they arne't the most reliable of sources, but they did break the news of MJ's death before anyone else) this is turning out to be a huge thing, not just with Murray but with other doctors as well, since MJ allegedly used different doctors to get certain things he wanted. I'm guessing that since Murray was the last one seen with MJ then that's the reason he's all over the news, but they are investigating other doctors as well in this case. SOMEONE'S going down. I'm just waiting to watch it all unfold.
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

they should go down, but this will not bring our Michael back:-(
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

True.That is hard as hell for me to think about sometimes... :(

But it would make me feel better to know that those who caused his death will not go unpunished. I know it's no consolation prize, I'd rather him still be alive, but the anger is overwhelming today... especially after reading what I read last night. I need this anger to go away.
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

I want all his doctors who took advantage of him to pay for it, I'm sure Murray was not the only dirty doctor
but nothing will ever make me feel better, there's no real justice in this case because Michael is will be lying 6 feet under forever and ever
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

I'm just...I can't even put into words...
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

Topflux said:
Im sorry I am not native english. But I mean CPR had the heart rate machine. Someone has mixed something Michael having an iv in his arm. He hadnt because the dr hadnt been practising that night very properly. There werent that much equipment in use (its different if they were in the house or in the room. But they were never used.

And about that puncturing. I heard thats exactly what the dr did. He gave Michael propofol once or twice in an hour. You can do that if the amount is 'enough'. But there are risks for example propofol's level rising all the time. I am not saying he did it all through the night and what happened, but he tried to maintain Michaels sleep by injections, not by dripping...
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but again that doesn't make sense. How much sleep could Michael possibly get if constantly stuck with needles? That would defeat the purpose. And 1 to 2 injections wouldn't last an hour because it wears off fast. If he had even one injection meant to make him sleep more than 20 minutes or so, then that one injection would stop his breathing.
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

so...the media has the whole world believing it's a drug thing. when every headline ends with a questionmark, the media has managed to make it the answer. along with the government. the authorities still haven't got past saying they BELIEVE it's a drug thing.(and it's too late for them to change, now, because it's clearly seen). all the wording in all the articles screams questionmark, questionmark, questionmark. there have been not one, but TWO raids. the definition of a raid, these days, is when authorities have nothing, but want you to not think that(see Neverland). yet, they can't find anything on raid number 1, so they have raid number 2. that screams questionmark, even more.

and now...here's the kicker.

the initial autopsy report said 'there was NO trauma to the body.'

yet, now the press and the government are saying there will be results of a TOXICOLOGY REPORT. how can there be a tox report, without trauma to the body??

does not trauma include at least one needle mark? shouldn't the autopsy report have been worded differently? of all reports the people writing this are at task to be the most responsible people in the world. shouldn't the autopsy report not have any words relating to 'no trauma', if there is a needlemark? apparently there is no needlemark, according to the way the original announced report was written.
either this is the most irresponsible report ever written, or, everything following it is folly and lies, designed to paint MJ as a druggie. not to mention, the tox report is taking an extraordinary amount of a long time to be revealed.

the only way i figure a drug can be administered without a needlemark is in the mouth while sleeping, in this case.

and yes..that sounds rediculous. that's my point.

you see, this is a government that executes people by lethal injection, if they administer the death penalty. i would think they would know that a needlemark is the definition of trauma.
​
 
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Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

The only problem with the 'other doctors' report is that the cops aren't raiding the offices and home of a thousand other doctors. And none of those other doctors were there when Mike died.

None of those doctors waited 30 minutes (at least) to get somebody else to call the paramedics. None of those doctors told paramedics not to rush Mike to the hospital the moment they got there. None of those doctors gave Mike diprivan the day he died. None of them performed CPR in a half-assed way.

None of them changed their habits/patterns on the day Mike died, like how the Cook said Murray did.

This could very well be a situation where the coroner determined that regardless of what meds Mike had in his body, the reason he stopped breathing or the reason his heart stopped was because of the administration of diprivan without proper equipment for resuscitation.
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

vncwilliam said:
so...the media has the whole world believing it's a drug thing. when every headline ends with a questionmark, the media has managed to make it the answer. along with the government. the authorities still haven't got past saying they BELIEVE it's a drug thing.(and it's too late for them to change, now, because it's clearly seen). all the wording in all the articles screams questionmark, questionmark, questionmark. there have been not one, but TWO raids. the definition of a raid, these days, is when authorities have nothing, but want you to not think that(see Neverland). yet, they can't find anything on raid number 1, so they have raid number 2. that screams questionmark, even more.

and now...here's the kicker.

the initial autopsy report said 'there was NO trauma to the body.'

yet, now the press and the government are saying there will be results of a TOXICOLOGY REPORT. how can there be a tox report, without trauma to the body??

does not trauma include at least one needle mark? shouldn't the autopsy report have been worded differently? of all reports the people writing this are at task to be the most responsible people in the world. shouldn't the autopsy report not have any words relating to 'no trauma', if there is a needlemark? apparently there is no needlemark, according to the way the original announced report was written.
either this is the most irresponsible report ever written, or, everything following it is folly and lies, designed to paint MJ as a druggie. not to mention, the tox report is taking an extraordinary amount of a long time to be revealed.

the only way i figure a drug can be administered without a needlemark is in the mouth while sleeping, in this case.

and yes..that sounds rediculous. that's my point.

you see, this is a government that executes people by lethal injection, if they administer the death penalty. i would think they would know that a needlemark is the definition of trauma.
​
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found the medical definition of trauma: Medically, "trauma" refers to a serious or critical bodily injury, wound, or shock. A needlemark would not fall under that definition because a needlemark alone would not be a serious or critical bodily injury or wound. The results of the needlemark (what was injected/infused) could be the cause of death, though, so that's why the tox needed to be done. Also, it's very likely that Michael received injections when receiving the final emergency medical treatment - drugs to try to get his heart started. So needlemarks aren't trauma or cause of death, it's what is injected/infused that would be the cause of death.
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

whisper said:
The only problem with the 'other doctors' report is that the cops aren't raiding the offices and home of a thousand other doctors. And none of those other doctors were there when Mike died.

None of those doctors waited 30 minutes (at least) to get somebody else to call the paramedics. None of those doctors told paramedics not to rush Mike to the hospital the moment they got there. None of those doctors gave Mike diprivan the day he died. None of them performed CPR in a half-assed way.

None of them changed their habits/patterns on the day Mike died, like how the Cook said Murray did.

This could very well be a situation where the coroner determined that regardless of what meds Mike had in his body, the reason he stopped breathing or the reason his heart stopped was because of the administration of diprivan without proper equipment for resuscitation.
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my post was about the original autopsy report. not other doctor reports. and i know no one would raid offices of other doctors. i never heard anything about other doctors. it is the obvious thing to raid this particular doctor. he's the only one apparently in the mansion. but they raided him twice...not once. and that's only because he was there. and there was no other doctor. still..a raid constitutes nothing. two raids constitute even less.

anyway..the point of my post is why is there even a question about toxology if there are no needlemarks mentioned in the original autopsy report?

my point is, a lot of people are considering all the media questions to be answers. and the media hasn't given any answers. only questions. and we are making conclusions without answers. i want the truth, too, but not by making 2 plus 2 out to be 5.

this is the kind of thing where we really have to study all the words that come out from the media and government. study them carefully..how they are worded...and what words they leave out. and what punctuation marks are used. it's that important.
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

@vncwilliam, I wasn't directing my previous reply specifically to you. It was more about the situation of how the media is talking about "a dozen" other doctors as if they were all there that day.
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

I just want to know what kind of stupid ass doctor gives anesthesia to an insomniac?! This is completely unheard of!
 
Re: Jackson's doc administered anesthetic that authorities believe killed the pop star

whisper said:
@vncwilliam, I wasn't directing my previous reply specifically to you. It was more about the situation of how the media is talking about "a dozen" other doctors as if they were all there that day.
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oh..well..sry.

but..indeed..that speaks to how much we should trust the media. i only have the internet, but that's enough. i've gotten tired of how they are trying to portray Michael.
 
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