Judge rules that Joe Jackson can receive Michael's medical files

[ginvid]

They did not want to pronouce him until his Mother got there. Why would they pronouce him as soon has he got there? Someone had to tell his kids and they wanted Mrs Jackson to do it. And let's be frank they only worked on him because it was Michael Jackson

Many people are pronounced dead as soon as they arrive to the hospital. Just because he is pronounced dead among staff does not mean they have to immediately tell that to the family. They can still hold on to that information until Kath got there, then tell her once she arrived so she can tell the children.

Even if they worked on him simply for who he was, the records will show what they did and MAY give insight into their thinking on the person when they arrived. I donot know what they thought myself. But I don't see them futilly working on someone, even MJ, if he was clearly dead. Why work on a corspe?

 

[ginvid]

I agree with the bolded part as well. A lot people question why the paramedics took the time to work on him even though they thought he was dead. It is because it was Michael Jackson. He is a high profile person. They wanted to make sure that they tried everything (even though there might be no hope) so that people would not say they did not do enough and he could be saved.

The paramedics may have done just that. (Also the fact that they said they were outranked by Murray and had to do what he said). but once he is brought in to the hospital, I don't understand why emergency doctors would do that. Though anything is possible and people are always tring to CYB.

 

[ivy]

Even if they worked on him simply for who he was, the records will show what they did and MAY give insight into their thinking on the person when they arrived. I donot know what they thought myself. But I don't see them futilly working on someone, even MJ, if he was clearly dead. Why work on a corspe?

I guess we need to define what is clearly dead. As far as the paramedics go when they arrived there might not be any heartbeat but at that instant they have no way of knowing whether he was without a heartbeat for a minute or for an hour (whether he could be saved or already far gone). So perhaps they did not want to take the chance. Where is the harm in that? As far as the doctors and hospital goes they have more experience, equipment etc than the paramedics so perhaps they also tried their best even if there was slight to no hope for MJ.

 

[ginvid]

I have no problem with anyone working on him, especially the paramedics working on him. That's what they were called for. I was talking about the ER doctors. With so many people coming in there who need help, I can't imagine them spending an entended period of time on a corpse, no matter who it is. As they would clearly be able to determine whether a person is alive or dead, more so than a paramedic. And by clearly dead, i mean, clinically dead. No body function whatsoever. I f he had any body function, let's say a heartbeat but no brain activity, the hospital would use artificial means to preserve life and then let the family decide whther to cont this means.

 

[Rockin.]

Joe is pathethic...he is just looking for money...

From the Estate Lawyer himself -

Weitzman also says the subpoenas are irrelevant to Joe Jackson's only legal claim -- a financial allowance.

joe and Randy are determined to get back at Michael for leaving them out of his will , whether that is through his kids or by calling him a drug addict

Lol oh dear. the point of that would be..?! yes that is certainly their plan.. :/... stop. this doesn't make any sense.

 

[Beachlover]

They did not want to pronouce him until his Mother got there. Why would they pronouce him as soon has he got there? Someone had to tell his kids and they wanted Mrs Jackson to do it. And let's be frank they only worked on him because it was Michael Jackson

To be honest, I have never heard of such a thing. I can understand not wanting to TELL ANYONE until Mrs Jackson arrived, but I can not understand making that the time of death. From a medical standpoint and not to be blunt, but dead is dead.

Let me try to further explain (any other medical professionals that have a differing opinion, please step up to the plate and tell me if this is wrong).

It is also possible, they did get a heart beat and blood pressure but because of the lack of oxygen to the brain, it was determined he was no longer capable of living without complete life support. These are things that are possible. I am not saying this is how it happened, but it is a possibility. I have never seen them make the time of death the time the family arrived.

This is very unusual to me and I am thinking once again, we were not told everything.

 

[Rockin.]

To be honest, I have never heard of such a thing. I can understand not wanting to TELL ANYONE until Mrs Jackson arrived, but I can not understand making that the time of death. From a medical standpoint and not to be blunt, but dead is dead.

Let me try to further explain (any other medical professionals that have a differing opinion, please step up to the plate and tell me if this is wrong).

It is also possible, they did get a heart beat and blood pressure but because of the lack of oxygen to the brain, it was determined he was no longer capable of living without complete life support. These are things that are possible. I am not saying this is how it happened, but it is a possibility. I have never seen them make the time of death the time the family arrived.

This is very unusual to me and I am thinking once again, we were not told everything.

Thats why its so strange. Frank said in the Raffles interview that a nurse told him Michael was already gone but they would carry on working on him until his mother got there. Strange. There was talk on cnn about MJ being in a coma.. but that story hasn't stuck, so whether its true or not idk. Maybe these medical files will shed light on that.

 

[Beachlover]

Thats why its so strange. Frank said in the Raffles interview that a nurse told him Michael was already gone but they would carry on working on him until his mother got there. Strange. There was talk on cnn about MJ being in a coma.. but that story hasn't stuck, so whether its true or not idk. Maybe these medical files will shed light on that.

Well, it would have been more than just a coma if they turned everything off so quickly.

 

[twinklEE]

From the Estate Lawyer himself -



Lol oh dear. the point of that would be..?! yes that is certainly their plan.. :/... stop. this doesn't make any sense.

It does make sense and his actions speak volumes however many people in this forum rather choose to turn a blind eye, as it suits their own ideas/fantasies far better. (Not directed at you)

 

[Autumn II]

Hello!:hiya:

even if the EMT's thought he was dead, apparently, the hospital staff didn't agree since they said they worked on MJ for a time period once he arrived. If he was DOA, they would not expend the time on a futile life saving operation. His records will show that. Maybe that is what Joe wants to see. How much the really tried to save MJ if they did at all. That would show if they really thought he was living or not.

Yes, the record would show what they did -- what procedures -- once Michael got to the hospital. The records won't show conclusions as to what happened, but there would be notes as to his condition upon arrival, i.e. pupils fixed-and-dilated, and that sort of thing. The record would also probably indicated any lividity found. In other words, his CONDITION upon arrival. That might help establish TOD. They reports would also indicate any medications given at the hospital, that could then be compared to the autopsy tox-report and to what Murray said he gave him. This could be extremely helpful in a civil-suit.

This is so awful to discuss, but the notes would also indicate brain-death, if that was the case. If so, it would not be abnormal to wait until the family arrived to call TOD. It might have been possible to get his heart started again and have him on a ventilator, but that would not mean he was "alive" in terms of brain-activity. In that case, it would be reasonable for the family to assemble before calling TOD. That is often done in cases such as that.

The confidentiality clause does a lot to ensure privacy, and I'm very pleased that the judge ordered that.

What we may think about Joe's behavior in the past, his current relationship with Katherine, and all the rest of it, ultimately does not matter if this hospital report is used in a civil suit and helps Michael get the justice he deserves. As I said, it could be COMPARED to the autopsy report, and would help establish a more complete picture.

 

[Rockin.]

It does make sense and his actions speak volumes however many people in this forum rather choose to turn a blind eye, as it suits their own ideas/fantasies far better. (Not directed at you)

Whats the point though, they gain absolutely nothing by doing that. How does that theory make sense in them getting money from the estate?

 

[twinklEE]

Whats the point though, they gain absolutely nothing by doing that. How does that theory make sense in them getting money from the estate?

Go ask Joseph Jackson himself, according to his own incompetent lawyer he wants it b/c of his allowance. I'm not going to argue with you or anyone, b/c quiet frankly I'm fed up of it, you believe what you want I will believe what I want. Time will tell both of us, who is right and who is wrong.

 

[Sophielo]

There's so many conflicting stories about what happened when they got to the hospital. Randy Phillips says Michael was put on life support but was told by the nurse that Michael had gone and Frank says they worked on him right until his mother came. There's also when the kids were told as some people have said they were told before the official TOD and some have said they were told after. The medical records will shed light on what actually happened on that day but as I've said before what scares me is this ending up in the wrong hands. I do not trust Brian Oxman as far as I can throw him and something is telling me this is going to end up in a tabloid.

 

[Rockin.]

Go ask Joseph Jackson himself, according to his own incompetent lawyer he wants it b/c of his allowance. I'm not going to argue with you or anyone, b/c quiet frankly I'm fed up of it, you believe what you want I will believe what I want. Time will tell both of us, who is right and who is wrong.

TwinklEE I'm not arguing with you, I don't want to do that, I'm just talking and I'm not talking about the files. I think we're getting our wires crossed here. I was replying specifically to Soundminds comment ''joe and Randy are determined to get back at Michael for leaving them out of his will, whether that is through his kids or by calling him a drug addict''.

'Getting back' at MJ by saying anything like this doesn't get Joe or Randy money from the Will, it just doesn't. The money from the Will depends on what MJ wrote and Joe's allowance I think depends on if he can prove he was dependant on Michael when he was alive. Theres no point 'getting back at him', they gain nothing from saying anything like that.
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Anyway, on another note...
In my opinion the problem is Joe probably doesn't know much and he has different people telling him things and he listens to anything anyone tells him - he's proven that by listening to fans from this board. I think he doesn't know what to believe, and just takes in anything people say. He said he wants 'everyone involved on a murder charge' does that sound like its coming from someone who knows what he's talking about? It doesn't to me. That doesn't sound practical or possible at all. Oxman obviously isn't advising him right in any case. The Estate lawyer Weitzman himself says (about the medical records) the subpoenas are irrelevant to Joe Jackson's only legal claim -- a financial allowance.

I do not trust Brian Oxman as far as I can throw him and something is telling me this is going to end up in a tabloid.

I think the Judge is putting a gagging order or something so nobody who views the files is allowed to speak about them so I don't think we need to worry about that.