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Is "This Is It" movie trying to cover up Michael's state of health?

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emmah24 said:
Quite simply, many fans are so wrapped up in new releases this week (album, film and exhibition) that they see the TINI campaigners as ruining their fun. Thats the truth. It dulls the pain of Michaels death to become consumed by all the MJ activity this week. By all means, enjoy what you see, I have no beef with fans revelling in all the hype.

But TINI campaigners are being villified by fans who havent bothered to take the time to research exactly what they are about and its not fair to simply label them, and its especially abhorent to insinuate that they shouldve done more. If you can concede that the fans saw something wrong, then that has to be true of Ortega/AEG too. But I suppose that spoils the enjoyment of this week to ask questions.

It's all about keeping perspective. Im not overly enthusiastic about the movie, I cant claim to feel excited about it cause I dont yet know what I'll see. Some of the clips look amazing, other parts concern me. It will be hard to watch, but I will keep an open mind.
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great words emmah

And what really bugs me is that there are pictures of these people posing with Michael during the time they say they were so concerned about his weight. One question. You were physically standing right next to him having your picture taken with him. I cannot comprehend why, when you were with him and so concerned about him, you didn't just talk to him about it.
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they did talk to him i suggest you go read the testimonies on the site becasue theres ppl going on about this and they obviously have no clue. ppl who think the camaign is all about the tour killed him when it was obviously murray and that is something the campaign doesnt denie.how hard is it for ppl to actually read up on what this group is saying b4 commenting on it.becasue otherwsie your opinion is pointless
 
Ultimately yes Terrell, I have so many conflicting thoughts, and I cant get away from what you are saying either. I cant understand some of Michaels own decisions either.

Its all murky and unclear and I hope we get some clarity.
 
michaels wendy bird said:
*walks in sees a conversation i have already seen a million times and moonwalks straight back out*
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So true. After the autopsy, I do see why any of this is an issue still about weight and everything else. Yeah, MJ may have lost some weight. Yeah, he may not have been eating much. yeah, some people kept their mouths shut when they saw him. Yeah, some fans saw him told him and MJ did nothing. OK, we got it. Now, what does have to do with him being DEAD? Nothing in my book. To me, those are things that could have been worked on during the tour however if this doctor did NOT give MJ a drug that was NOT suppose to be used outside of the hospital in the first place, MJ would still be here. The mere fact you have to use a IV in your home for a non surgery or emergery is the first common sense sign of "wait a minute, this is not the right thing to do".
 
To the delight of some and dismay of others, this is a LEGITIMATE news topic being reported by worldwide news media. MJJC would be derelict not to report it. Maybe some of you should calm down with your over the top criticisms AND over the top support and just be objective observers?

Criticize all you want. Support all you want... but disrespect and over the top bashing will not be tolerated. Behave yourselves!

The thread will not be closed.

Also, MJJC News have completed an interview with the This Is Not It campaign and will be posting it tomorrow. As with everything, our interview does not mean we support the campaign or deny their rights to campaign/protest. We have done this interview because it is news pertaining to Michael Jackson.
 
terrell said:
So true. After the autopsy, I do see why any of this is an issue still about weight and everything else. Yeah, MJ may have lost some weight. Yeah, he may not have been eating much. yeah, some people kept their mouths shut when they saw him. Yeah, some fans saw him told him and MJ did nothing. OK, we got it. Now, what does have to do with him being DEAD? Nothing in my book. To me, those are things that could have been worked on during the tour however if this doctor did NOT give MJ a drug that was NOT suppose to be used outside of the hospital in the first place, MJ would still be here. The mere fact you have to use a IV in your home for a non surgery or emergery is the first common sense sign of "wait a minute, this is not the right thing to do".
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Thank you for the voice of reason. I totally agree.
 
So true. After the autopsy, I do see why any of this is an issue still about weight and everything else. Yeah, MJ may have lost some weight. Yeah, he may not have been eating much. yeah, some people kept their mouths shut when they saw him. Yeah, some fans saw him told him and MJ did nothing. OK, we got it. Now, what does have to do with him being DEAD?
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theyve never said thats the reason he is dead. thats the problem. we have ppl debating something that they havnt even educated themselves on. just repeating the same ole thing, until ppl know what the group are going on about then the discussion is pointless.i agree with some of the things they are saying and dont agree with others but b4 coming to a decision i at least bother to find out what their actual argument is.and until others do the same this discussion is gonna go round in pointless circles.
 
Trish said:
To the delight of some and dismay of others, this is a LEGITIMATE news topic being reported by worldwide news media. MJJC would be derelict not to report it. Maybe some of you should calm down with your over the top criticisms AND over the top support and just be objective observers?

Criticize all you want. Support all you want... but disrespect and over the top bashing will not be tolerated. Behave yourselves!

The thread will not be closed.

Also, MJJC News have completed an interview with the This Is Not It campaign and will be posting it tomorrow. As with everything, our interview does not mean we support the campaign or deny their rights to campaign/protest. We have done this interview because it is news pertaining to Michael Jackson.
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I wholeheartedly affirm this statement. You all have every right to have diverse opinions. This issue IS being reported globally on major news media, however. In your divergent opinions, the rule of this board, as it should be in life in general, is respect. You may state your opinions, but it is NOT ok to bash those who disagree with you.

I suggest that everyone take a step back and a deep breath. Michael was all about love and kindness. You do him a disservice if you harm one-another with your words. This issue has been discussed in the past, as I'm sure it will be in the future. You have a chance, here, to show your BEST selves in your respectful discussion. The same will be true when the TINI interview is posted. Please read carefully and form your OWN reasoned judgements based on what is written, but do not attack anyone. We should all be capable of some self-control, right?

peace,

Victoria
 
I thought you could not post threads about the same thing over and over. So if someone already has a thread on the topic, you have to post there not open another one on the same topic. I'm asking in all honesty.
 
ginvid said:
I thought you could not post threads about the same thing over and over. So if someone already has a thread on the topic, you have to post there not open another one on the same topic. I'm asking in all honesty.
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Thanks for your question. The origin of this thread is supported by the three links that were given:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8327168.stm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx3TpD8uW30

http://www.reuters.com/article/peopl...59L61I20091022

BBC news is a very respected news agency, as is Reuters. They would not run an article if they did not consider it to be newsworthy; they have also provided balance in their reporting. The video is for you, yourselves, to form opinions about. Hopefully, discussion will focus on the information that was given in the links. This is a topic that continues to spread on mainstream news, and the thread takes this fact into account.

As with any thread, MJJC members have a choice as to whether to engage with the discussion, or move to another thread.
 
I read one article from TINI where it talked about Murray being an employee of AEG. Michael chose Murray and he was not on AEG's payroll yet.

The implication I took from that article/post was that Murray was complicit with AEG in their negligence of Michael. I don't agree with that theory.

I also think that the case they are trying to make against AEG will actually help Murray's case.

I don't believe that Kenny Ortega would not care about Michael and would push him to do this concert if he really didn't want to. Kenny has known him for over 20yrs. and I believe that he loved Michael as much, if not more than many of us. I can't see him being blinded by dollars to push Michael to complete this show if he felt it was too much.

Also, Karen brushed aside those fans that expressed concern for Michael. Now she's with TINI.

If the concerts were postponed I think Michael would still be skinny and suffer from insomnia. This isn't the first time that he used Propofol.
 
Also, Karen brushed aside those fans that expressed concern for Michael. Now she's with TINI.
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i think she goes with the wind. maybe guilt trip on her part i dunno.
 
It isso easy to get caught up in this argument. But I just took a step back and came to the conclusion that this can all be sorted out later. What I realized that at this moment in time when the press and public opinion are completely behind Michael and his legacy we should not be arguing about this. THere will be plenty of time to sort this out later.
Have you EVER seen the press so supportive of Michael? It is sad that this didn't happen until after he passed on, but it happened just the same.

Now is our time as fans to celebrate Michael with the world. Let's use this unprecedented press and public support to cement Michaels legacy as the greatest entertainer ever. And the more I thought about who Michael was and what made him happy. The more I realized that is what he would want us to do. He would NOT want us to dwell on the negative, even if it were true. He would want us to enjoy the film, to appreciate his efforts, to love him for his message and for his gifts to us. He would want us to celebrate and enjoy the film to the fullest. He was a giving, loving person who got great joy from inspiring people and making them happy. So, lets just go and enjoy it and see what he had in store for us. It is his final gift to us.
 
ReneeM said:
I read one article from TINI where it talked about Murray being an employee of AEG. Michael chose Murray and he was not on AEG's payroll yet.

The implication I took from that article/post was that Murray was complicit with AEG in their negligence of Michael. I don't agree with that theory.

I also think that the case they are trying to make against AEG will actually help Murray's case.

I don't believe that Kenny Ortega would not care about Michael and would push him to do this concert if he really didn't want to. Kenny has known him for over 20yrs. and I believe that he loved Michael as much, if not more than many of us. I can't see him being blinded by dollars to push Michael to complete this show if he felt it was too much.

Also, Karen brushed aside those fans that expressed concern for Michael. Now she's with TINI.

If the concerts were postponed I think Michael would still be skinny and suffer from insomnia. This isn't the first time that he used Propofol.
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Absolutely.

Because if TINI gets what they want - which is to somehow hold AEG responsible for MJs death, Murray's off the hook. Murray's attorney's will kiss every TINI member on the forehead for providing reasonable doubt on "murder in the 2nd degree" or "voluntary manslaughter" charges - and you can bet it will be used to make a stronger defense for Murray.

Also, I think TINI helps the Jacksons make a wrongful death lawsuit claim against AEG.

So I'm really on the fence.

And I also believe Kenny Ortega.
 
shimar said:
Because if TINI gets what they want - which is to somehow hold AEG responsible for MJs death, Murray's off the hook. Murray's attorney's will kiss every TINI member on the forehead for providing reasonable doubt on "murder in the 2nd degree" or "voluntary manslaughter" charges - and you can bet it will be used to make a stronger defense for Murray.
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How will Murray be 'off the hook' if AEG are held partly responsible? Murray was (supposed to be) a qualified doctor. He gave Michael propofol in a home setting with nothing to back it up should anything go wrong. Murray took forever to dial 911. No one is taking anytihng away from this.

Don't forget, there is a reason he was giving Michael propofol - because he couldn't sleep (possibly due to the pressures of TII). AEG could be seen as being responsible for those pressures.
 
I understand. So if a new article comes out, even if it is on a similar subject, you can open a new thread; and, as you said, the discussion should focus on the new articles.

Ok, Thank you.
 
I think it would help Murray, because they are looking for any excuse to say that he is not wholey reponsible for MJ's death; there are other mitigating factors. So to say that MJ was unhealthy and could not deal with the stress of the tour, with doing so many shows, etc, helps to put doubt on Murray as to whether he was alone responsible and could strenghten his case.
 
ginvid said:
I think it would help Murray, because they are looking for any excuse to say that he is not wholey reponsible for MJ's death; there are other mitigating factors. So to say that MJ was unhealthy and could not deal with the stress of the tour, with doing so many shows, etc, helps to put doubt on Murray as to whether he was alone responsible and could strenghten his case.
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That's exactly what they can do and this is what I fear. I want Murray to be held accountable for what he did.

All a jury needs is reasonable doubt.
 
ginvid said:
I understand. So if a new article comes out, even if it is on a similar subject, you can open a new thread; and, as you said, the discussion should focus on the new articles.

Ok, Thank you.
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It's best to keep a lid on the number of new, but related, threads. However, if all the TINI stuff was posted in one thread, it would be too long to be manageable. So I guess it's a case-by-case basis, depending on the amount of new information in a given article.
 
bowen9999 said:
How will Murray be 'off the hook' if AEG are held partly responsible? Murray was (supposed to be) a qualified doctor. He gave Michael propofol in a home setting with nothing to back it up should anything go wrong. Murray took forever to dial 911. No one is taking anytihng away from this.

Don't forget, there is a reason he was giving Michael propofol - because he couldn't sleep (possibly due to the pressures of TII). AEG could be seen as being responsible for those pressures.
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You don't understand - so please try to follow my logic here:

The LAPD is building a case against Murray for homicide.

The LA District Attorney needs to know whether there was complete involvement of Murray to intentionally murder Michael (or lack of), pre-existing conditions that may have hastened MJs death, accessories, or maybe Dr. Murray's being framed, etc.

If TINI get the court to think that AEG worked MJ to the grave - then Murray's lawyers have a sheild to hold up against the LA District Attorney. It takes away the DAs power of indicting Murray on a heavier charge instead of "medical malpractice."

ALSO: TINI helps the Jacksons in a wrongful death suit claim if their intentions come through - and doing that also strengthens Murray's defense.

Basically, TINI gives Murray an Ace card because Murray will claim, "oh, it wasn't MY misconduct that killed MJ, it was AEG with working MJ to death" - and will just muddle EVERYTHING, the investigation will be null, because the DA won't have a strong case to prosecute Murray for murder/reckless manslaughter.

And instead of doing 25 to life as he should, Murray will pay a fine & get his medical license suspended for some time. basically a slap in the wrist - thanks to TINI's efforts in blaming AEG and not Murray's negligence.

ReneeM said:
That's exactly what they can do and this is what I fear. I want Murray to be held accountable for what he did.

All a jury needs is reasonable doubt.
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And TINI is helping to achieve this.
 
emmah24 said:
Quite simply, many fans are so wrapped up in new releases this week (album, film and exhibition) that they see the TINI campaigners as ruining their fun. Thats the truth. It dulls the pain of Michaels death to become consumed by all the MJ activity this week. By all means, enjoy what you see, I have no beef with fans revelling in all the hype.

But TINI campaigners are being villified by fans who havent bothered to take the time to research exactly what they are about and its not fair to simply label them, and its especially abhorent to insinuate that they shouldve done more. If you can concede that the fans saw something wrong, then that has to be true of Ortega/AEG too. But I suppose that spoils the enjoyment of this week to ask questions.

It's all about keeping perspective. Im not overly enthusiastic about the movie, I cant claim to feel excited about it cause I dont yet know what I'll see. Some of the clips look amazing, other parts concern me. It will be hard to watch, but I will keep an open mind.
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well emmah let the fans see the movie and i betcha they can pick up on what is going on. Nevertheless at the end of the day all roads point back to Michael. Some may ask why didn't he just say hold up I am not ready, did he read the contract and did he know that there were more than 10 shows to be performed, was he aware of Dr.Murray and how long did he know him. You see Mike can't answer that question but maybe someone around him can. I just can't picture a man who loved complete control of everything would just leave his health to chance, I just can't fathom that. However the truth will come out and unfortunately Dr. Murray will be the man.
 
callmerose said:
It isso easy to get caught up in this argument. But I just took a step back and came to the conclusion that this can all be sorted out later. What I realized that at this moment in time when the press and public opinion are completely behind Michael and his legacy we should not be arguing about this. THere will be plenty of time to sort this out later.
Have you EVER seen the press so supportive of Michael? It is sad that this didn't happen until after he passed on, but it happened just the same.

Now is our time as fans to celebrate Michael with the world. Let's use this unprecedented press and public support to cement Michaels legacy as the greatest entertainer ever. And the more I thought about who Michael was and what made him happy. The more I realized that is what he would want us to do. He would NOT want us to dwell on the negative, even if it were true. He would want us to enjoy the film, to appreciate his efforts, to love him for his message and for his gifts to us. He would want us to celebrate and enjoy the film to the fullest. He was a giving, loving person who got great joy from inspiring people and making them happy. So, lets just go and enjoy it and see what he had in store for us. It is his final gift to us.
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As my first post (yeah, I've been lurking for months now:smilerolleyes:) - I agree with you 100%! I couldn't have said it better! This is about Michael's legacy and right now we should be celebrating his love, his talent and the magic he gave us!
 
MissAlxC said:
Question: What proof do TINI have?
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What they have is compelling testimony that if presented to a jury could cast reasonable doubt and then POOF, Murray goes scott free.

Because I will GUARANTEE YOU, that TINI fans could be called to the witness stand to testify in the defense's side because they witnessed Michael as sickly & weak due to his work, versus leaner than usual but very healthy as we'll see in the movie.
 
shimar said:
I think that the Jacksons will use the TINI testimonial evidence & media momentum to file a wrongful death suit against AEG.

And Murray's still walking around in his PJs in his luxury cul-de-sac.
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Quite frankly amiga, I have to agree. I am sick of all these conspiracies and TINI campaign stories and such. I have to believe what I see with my eyes which are the photos of Mike taken two weeks before his death when he is walking down a street with his kids. He looked fine. He's always been a slender fellow. Healthwise, for his age, he was fine. His weight was fine. His main problem was Lupus, but that was not what killed him.

Those testimonies photos prove NOTHING. They are just pictures of fans with Mike. And if they tried to prove how "frail" he was, they epically failed.

The testimonies themselves sound greatly exaggerated imo.

Now the press is grabbing everything that's posted on that TINI facebook. Great. They got the publicity they wanted.

Anyway, that's my opinion and I'll end it there.

Murray is still scott free. No arrest. Nothing. I call that messed up :angry:
 
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