[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

[Bubs]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It is incredibly messy and confusing. Once they claim MJ and his companies are one and the same unseperable identities. Then somewhere else they go off on how the companies negligently hired MJ and they shouldn't have placed him in a job where he could contact children. So he negligently hired himself and he shouldn't have placed himself in a position where he could contact children? WTF? How does that make any sense?


A lot of it does seem like copy&paste work from some another case. They keep mentioning school terms like "school" in reference to the company, "teacher" in reference to MJ, "student" in reference to Wade. No doubt to make the impression that this is the same as cases against schools but just because they say so it won't make it true. MJJP/MJJV weren't schools and they did not have the same obligations as a school. Nor was MJ a "teacher" and an employee of these companies who they could have hired or fired or removed him from positions.

The first paragraph made me laugh, because it makes perfect sense - after you drink bottle of vodka

Seemingly they just got settlement from a school, so they have all sort of stuff in fresh memory to use in this case
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...-and-citrus-valley-high-school-300316028.html

They are desperately trying to make it that MJJP and MJJV operates the same way as schools.
I wonder if they listed cleaners from that school as party of their lawsuit as they are employed by the school, thus responsible of that teachers behaviour?
That would explain their bizarre complaint to include Neverland staff too.

 

[LindavG]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

They will just call him an accuser

Yes, but his accusations were dismissed in court so how can they be used to bolster Wade's case? I mean purely from a legal perspective (we all know that none of the accusers are credible, that's not the point). It doesn't seem right to me that someone can be acquitted of allegations in a criminal case yet those same allegations can later be used to support a civil case.

Besides, from what I understand they actually claim Gavin as one of Michael's victims, not just an accuser. @ Respect/Ivy, do you have the passage(s) in with Gavin is mentioned?

 

[Bubs]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

MJ had 'previously engaged and continued to engage in unlawful sexual conduct with patrons and other felonies.'

I haven't had time to finish reading the whole complaint yet but whats that mean?

 

[LindavG]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Is it just me or does Wade's case look even weaker with these amendments than it did before? It's like these lawyers have abandoned any effort to sound reasonable or consistent in their allegations. They are entirely focused on trying this case in the media and extorting a settlement that way - as is their MO. But they're so transparent about it that I think even much of the general public can see it.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes, but his accusations were dismissed in court so how can they be used to bolster Wade's case? I mean purely from a legal perspective (we all know that none of the accusers are credible, that's not the point). It doesn't seem right to me that someone can be acquitted of allegations in a criminal case yet those same allegations can later be used to support a civil case.

Besides, from what I understand they actually claim Gavin as one of Michael's victims, not just an accuser. @ Respect/Ivy, do you have the passage(s) in with Gavin is mentioned?

I guess you could compair it to the prior bad acts law.if it gets to trial i guess there will be arguments/motions as to what can be brought up.

 

[myosotis]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

MJ had 'previously engaged and continued to engage in unlawful sexual conduct with patrons and other felonies.'

I haven't had time to finish reading the whole complaint yet but whats that mean?

No idea, unless they meant to write '.....and other felonies with Plaintiff'

Maybe they only used a spellchecker and didn't read it through

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

This is a civil trial, so they can claim Gavin was a victim even though in a criminal trial Mj was found not guilty. Gavin can also testify and everyone in his family. Actually, Gavin himself could have sued Mj after he was acquitted. The same goes for the Neverland fab 5. Remember they were found liable in a civil lawsuit, which they themselves intiated against Mj, and were ordered to pay him damages in $ 1 million, but they still got on the witness stand and testified against him in 2005. Whether they are credible or not will be left to the jurors to decide if this goes to trial. Gavin was destroyed on the stand along with all the prosecution witnesses, but neither the judge nor any of the jurors were present when that trial took place. So, the estate will have to put a defense AT LEAST as good as that of Mez. I am not sure whether they will be able to do so, given that Mez wholeheartedly believed in mj's innocence while we all know Wiezman's history.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

LOL I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Is there anything they came up with to "prove" that Norma was the madame or
they only mention the 1990 meeting?

The madame thing is specifically stated during the telling of Joy contacting her and Norma in turn contacting MJ.

Yep, Joy seeking out and calling Norma and wanting to contact MJ was "purposely orchestrated" by Norma Staikos (through telepathy I guess) which makes her a "madame". LOL.

Later they make claims about her purposefully enabling MJ in the alleged sexual abuse.

So basically the narrative changed about her compared to the previous complaints where they just suggest she maybe might have suspected something - and that based on vauge alleged remarks attributed to her by Orietta Murdock (who is of questionable credibility anyway). Now they accuse her of actively, knowingly and purposefully enabling MJ in allegedly abusing Robson. Well, they need to link the alleged abuse somehow to MJJP/V and they do that through Norma.

Any other example where she "procured" kids for MJ?

They keep making general statements about many kids supposedly being abused and the companies knowing about it, but they don't name names, nor do they tell how the companies supposedly knew about it. They just throw it out as an uncorroborated statement in an attempt to make it look like there are many victims out there and boost their allegations. And of course to make the claim that the companies knew/had a reason to know about previous abuse. An example of that and how that is worded throughout the complaint.

It is an uncorroborated nonsense. There were no prior allegations, no felony convictions or even charges against him, so what the hell the companies should have known?

This is also weird.

They are just making up stuff. There were no prior allegations and what properties owned by MJJP/MJJV? Even when we talk about actual accusers (not these never existed phantom accusers that the complaint keeps referring to in its attempt to establish a "reason to know") - they claimed abuse at NL and in their own homes. NL is a property that was owned by MJ personally, not MJJP/MJJV. I am not sure who owned the Hideout, but in any case it is nonsense, because for someone to claim this they will actually have to show the existence of such previous accusers. Complaints, lawsuits filed, secret settlements etc. I know at this stage they are just throwing in every idea and the kitchen sink and hope that maybe something will come their way, but fact is MJ had been under scrutiny by authorities for over 20 years and they never found any evidence of any previous accusers, previous settlements, allegations etc. prior to Chandler.

The first paragraph made me laugh, because it makes perfect sense - after you drink bottle of vodka

I know but that's exactly what happens in this lawsuit.

1) MJ is the president/owner which in their twisted mind doesn't mean he had control over the companies, but it means they had control over him. It is cleverly worded though because they say the companies had control over MJ's "business and personal affairs". Well, depends on which kind of affairs. I am sure they were given control over some aspects of his affairs - that's after all what a boss does, assigns certain tasks to lower levels below him. But that, say, Norma was given some control over MJ's bank accounts to pay the employees' salaries won't help them in establishing that Norma also had control over MJ, the owner and had the power to somehow stop MJ from meeting with the Robsons. Not in her capacity as an MJJP/V employee. Whatever control Norma or anyone else had was assigned to her by MJ that MJ as the boss, owner and president could revoke at any time. MJ could hire and fire and replace and remove Norma from positions, but not the other way around.

2) Then this weird claim.

They also claim the companies were MJ's alter-egos.

Legal definition of an alter ego:

A corporation is considered the alter ego of its stockholders, directors, or officers when it is used merely for the transaction of their personal business for which they want Immunity from individual liability.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/alter+ego

So to claim the companies were MJ's alter egos apparently they should prove that they were used merely for the personal business of MJ to avoid liability for something. Well, the main buisness of MJJP/V were the creation and distribution of MJ's music and videos. It can be proven that's what they were indeed doing. So obviously these companies weren't alter egos to avoid personal liability for something. And I don't get how these companies would help MJ to avoid liability for alleged sexual abuse.

And if they were used as his alter egos isn't that too a contradiction with their claim that the companies controlled MJ and not the other way around?

Anyway, they claim MJ and the companies were each other's alter egos "without any seperate identity". LOL. If that is so then how can they say this:

3)

So MJ and the companies are "without seperate identity" and each other's and eventually MJ's alter egos, but they somehow shouldn't have hired MJ. If that makes any sense. It is a mess.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Besides, from what I understand they actually claim Gavin as one of Michael's victims, not just an accuser. @ Respect/Ivy, do you have the passage(s) in with Gavin is mentioned?

I checked it and I don't think now Gavin is mentioned by the name. They simply state that MJ was tried in 2005 for sexual abuse and Robson testified at that trial. But details of that case or Gavin aren't mentioned. Just to talk about the fact that Robson testified.

Is it just me or does Wade's case look even weaker with these amendments than it did before? It's like these lawyers have abandoned any effort to sound reasonable or consistent in their allegations. They are entirely focused on trying this case in the media and extorting a settlement that way - as is their MO. But they're so transparent about it that I think even much of the general public can see it.

Yes, it is a very messy complaint with many ridiculously outlandish claims, many of which are demonstrably false and outrageous. However, legally I am a bit wary of this new negligence angle - specifically the mandatory reporters thing - I mentioned in some of my earlier posts. It does seem like reaching but this is a new thing to me, so I am not sure about where this could go. I will be interested in the Estate's reply. We will know more then.

Although I think in round 1 they will just reply to the first part about why this new complaint should not be allowed. Only if the Judge gives the amendment a green light is when the Estate will probably focus on addressing the legal arguments in the new claim.

 

[Bubs]

I just thought of Evvy Tavasci being employee of MJJP and MJJV. I supposed she is going to be one of Doe's?

Vindicate site has her declaration regarding other issue:
"I, EVELYN TAVASCI, of 4828 Katherine Avenue Sherman Oaks, California, USA, WILL SAY as follows –

1. Having been employed by MJJ Productions Inc (“Productions&#8217 in March of 1991, I was appointed by Mr Jackson as his personal assistant in 1993. Productions (among other things) owns and administers the intellectual property rights arising from certain of Mr Jackson’s activities, including the rights relating to the film footage which is in dispute in this case. I am the executive administrator of Productions and run the office. I am duly authorised to make this Witness Statement in support of the present application. Save where otherwise indicated, its contents come from my own knowledge and are true. Insofar as they have been provided by third parties I believe them to be true to the best of my knowledge and belief."
https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2...mputer/evvy-tavascis-statement-february-2003/

 

[redfrog]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Later they make claims about her purposefully enabling MJ in the alleged sexual abuse.

Except there was no bed in the Westwood apartment we know that from Blanca Francia's testimony, only standard
one person sleeping bags and Joy Robson testified that she and Chantal slept
there with Wade and MJ during that first trip! So what exactly did Norma enable?
And how could Norma force Joy Robson to stay in a hotel anyway? And what did Norma have to do with
Joy Robson taking Wade to Mj's apartment?

The Robsons went with MJ to LA because they wanted to go there! Once they are there
they should stay somewhere, don't they?
So how is finding a hotel room for them is enabling any abuse?


Crazy crazy shit.

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Wade and his lawyers are just repeat themselves over and over again there is no truth to their new claims and no doubt the judge will see that so there is nothing to amend it the same thing form the old case. Michael was in control of his companies the companies did not have control over Michael end of story.

These claims are all lies no truth or proof it like Wade and his lawyers went down the line and filled in the blanks and. I have to agree Wade case has gotting weaker

 

[redfrog]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes, it is a very messy complaint with many ridiculously outlandish claims, many of which are demonstrably false and outrageous. However, legally I am a bit wary of this new negligence angle - specifically the mandatory reporters thing - I mentioned in some of my earlier posts. It does seem like reaching but this is a new thing to me, so I am not sure about where this could go.

What does the mandatory reporters thing have to do with the fact that Robson sill has to prove the companies had control
and had reason to know that Robson or anyone else was abused?
He still has to prove those things, doesn't he?
And shouldn't they actually name people who should have controlled MJ?
It's not enough to say Doe 6 Doe 54541.
Who should have taken reasonable steps to separate MJ from Robson?
Who should have gone to the police and exactly why when the Robsons themselves defended MJ?
Doesn't Robson have to establish those things with facts for summary judgment?

As for the ex-employees none of them reported anything before the Chandler case.
Which itself proves they are liars.

 

[ivy]

Michael Jackson Accuser Wade Robson Recalled Alleged Abuse After Becoming a Father: 'This Wasn't Loving, Normal Behavior,' Says Lawyer

BY JORDAN RUNTAGH @jordanruntagh 09/16/2016 AT 05:15 PM EDT


Celebrity choreographer Wade Robson recently amended his 2013 legal claim that he was sexually abused by Michael Jackson with the startling allegation that the artist operated the "most sophisticated public child sexual abuse procurement and facilitation organization the world has known."

The fact that he waited until decades after the alleged abuse took place – and three years after Jackson had died – has raised some eyebrows, but his lawyer says that Robson repressed the painful memories until 2012, after becoming a father to now 5½-year-son Koa.

"He just recently made that determination soon after giving birth to his first child," attorney Vince Finaldi tells PEOPLE exclusively. "He started having all these things come up. This wasn't loving, normal behavior – things that the world just won't understand. If this were my child I would absolutely not be okay with it. This is sexual abuse. He went to a therapist."

Though the original complaint was thrown out of court in 2015, Finaldi explains that a previous legal effort named the late singer's estate in their claim, despite the fact that the statue of limitations had passed. (Howard Weitzman, an attorney for the Jackson estate, hailed the ruling at the time, saying the estate believed Robson's earlier sworn testimony in Jackson's defense "when his sole motivation was 'to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.'")

Since he's been brought on, Finaldi's strategy is to continue with the cases against the late singer's business entities, MJJ Productions and MJJ Ventures, which remain active.

"What triggered the amendment complaint is our review of the files and materials, and our determination that [Jackson] was in fact operating MJJ Productions as a child sexual abuse procurement operation. That was unquestionably the second purpose of this business," Finaldi alleges. "He was using it to pay for gifts for kids and parents in order to groom them for later sexual abuse. He was using it to pay for trips for kids, for plane tickets, for hotels to bring them with him on concerts and to also employ some of these kids as 'dancers' – but he would also be putting them into his room and sleeping with them at night and sexually abusing them."

He continued: "None of these are standard operations for an entertainment company that's supposed to be distributing music as an entertainment."

According to Finaldi, Robson, 33, is intent on "getting answers as to why this happened. If you can't figure out why this was allowed to happen, you can't protect kids from this happening in the future in the entertainment industry in general. One of his main concerns is making sure that this does not happen again and kids are protected. He wants to get the real story out there."

Representatives for MJJ have yet to respond to PEOPLE's request for comment.

While the case is prepared, Finaldi says that Robson continues to work on his personal demons.

"As with any other survivor, there are good days and there are bad days. You just have to plod through it, so he's still in therapy. He's working his depths going from being a victim to a survivor, and he's really committed to it. This is really hard work. This is lifetime work."

The trial is currently set for March 2017.

 

[myosotis]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Going through the rest of the amended complaint, there are more oddities, and more nonsense.

Paras 83- 84 includes more copy/pastes.
(I've used P for Plaintiff and D for Defendants)

In 83 it says 'P's employment and personal development has been adversely affected, P has lost wages... She suffered at the hands of D's and will continue to lose wages. ...
In 84 at about points 11-12 Plaintiff is twice referred to as 'her'

Para 88 seems like a copy/paste:
Plaintiff held great trust, faith and confidence in defendants which by virtue of defendant's wrongful conduct turned to fear. (---- REALLY, when exactly would that be, then?? ..or is this from another case?)

P91 is extraordinary...pain of body...prevented from performing daily activities???

As a result of the above-described conduct, P suffered and continues to suffer great pain of mind and body, shock, emotional distress, physical manifestations of emotional distress, embarrassment, loss of self-esteem, disgrace, humiliation and loss of enjoyment of life....... and also ....... have suffered and continue to suffer and were prevented and will continue to be prevented from performing daily activities and obtaining full enjoyment of life.

P110 is odd:
P is informed and believes and on that basis alleges that the Ds MJJP and MJJV and Does 6-50 were placed on actual or constructive notice that MJ had children prior to and /or during the time he was in contact with the P.

Are all the 'oddities' of wording (the ones that don't make sense) some kind of deliberate delay tactic, so that the Estate lawyers have to ask what these paragraphs mean?

I see that Wade doesn't want much...only 'past, present and future general and special damages, punitive damages, statutory damages, costs of suit, attorneys fees, and interest as allowed by law.'

 

[barbee0715]

Here's another story. This author is particularly nasty. My phone was blowing up because I have it set for notifications on Michael AND Wade. Some poor guy was also blowing up this particular article with a million rebuttal posts. I was thumbs upping all of his posts and people accused him of liking his own. No, it was me.



Wade Robson Claims That Michael Jackson And His Minions Ran The Most Sophisticated Child Sexual Abuse Operation In The World


September 14, 2016 / Posted by: Michael K 1153
31 Reactions



Choreographer and So You Think You Can Dance guest judge Wade Robson threw a lawsuit at MJJ Productions in 2013, claiming that Michael Jackson sexually abused him from the age of 7 to the age of 14. One judge threw out the case in 2015, because according to them, 33-year-old Wade Robson waited way too long to file it. (Yes, we are living in a world where claims of sexual abuse have an expiration date on them.) But the case is back on. The brain-melting disturbing details of the lawsuit were sealed up back then, but recently his new lawyer Vince Finaldi added a new complaint and The Hollywood Reporter published it. The new complaint claims that two of Michael Jackson’s companies acted as fronts for finding new victims.




Wade says in his complaint that MJJ Productions and MJJ Ventures were Michael Jackson’s entertainment companies and they actually served two purposes. One was to do entertainment stuff and the other was to pretty much leave a trail of candy from a potential victim to MJ’s feet. These allegations come as a non-shock to pretty much everyone and really come as a non-shock to anyone who believes Corey Feldman’s claims that there’s a PedoBear hiding behind every tree in Hollywood. via THR


“MJJ PRODUCTIONS and MJJ VENTURES were held out to the public to be businesses dedicated to creating and distributing multimedia entertainment by MICHAEL JACKSON, however, in fact, they actually served dual purposes,” writes Finaldi in the complaint filed Friday. “The thinly-veiled, covert second purpose of these businesses was to operate as a child sexual abuse operation, specifically designed to locate, attract, lure and seduce child sexual abuse victims.”


Robson claims Jackson and his inner circle within the two companies “designed, developed and operated what is likely the most sophisticated public child sexual abuse procurement and facilitation organization the world has known.”


The lawsuit states that Wade first met MJ in his native land of Australia when he was 5 years old and won a dance contest run by MJJ Productions. Wade and his family went off to California 2 years later, because his dance company was booked to perform at Disneyland. MJ invited Wade and his family to stay at Neverland Ranch. Wade slept in MJ’s room while his family slept in guest rooms, and that’s when the alleged abuse started. The lawsuit says that as Wade got older, the abuse got less and less and by the time he was 14, he was already too old for MJ.


Wade ended up testifying FOR Michael Jackson in 1993 in the Jordan Chandler abuse case. Wade says in his lawsuit that MJ coached him and “brainwashed” him into a being a “good soldier.” And now I need to bleach wash my brain after reading “good soldier.”


Wade had a nervous breakdown in 2012 and went through tons of therapy. He says that up until then, he had completely blocked out the abuse and it eventually came out in therapy. He says he hasn’t really been able to work since then.


The trial is currently scheduled to start on March 13th.


If this goes to trial, I expect it to be a mess and I expect the lawyers for Michael Jackson’s estate to call all of the characters from the past (Bubbles, etc…) to the witness stand. And the crazy dove lady from Michael Jackson’s 2005 trial is probably already training a new army of white doves to fly.


Pic: Getty

 

[barbee0715]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Absolutely nothing these lawyers say will ever change the fact that Wade defended Michael in 93, testified for him in court in 2005, did countless interviews about him (many on film), did tributes to him (also on film), and wrote loving words in Opus. He can't even use repressed memories since he already claimed the opposite in the Today Show. So...I just can't see how the judge can see this as being credible.

Did Karen Langford work for Michael's company?

 

[terrell]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Absolutely nothing these lawyers say will ever change the fact that Wade defended Michael in 93, testified for him in court in 2005, did countless interviews about him (many on film), did tributes to him (also on film), and wrote loving words in Opus. He can't even use repressed memories since he already claimed the opposite in the Today Show. So...I just can't see how the judge can see this as being credible.

Did Karen Langford work for Michael's company?

Even Roger Feldman has Wade on tape in 2012 praising MJ. The REAL media is not going to touch this nonsense. Not even entertainment shows like Et or Accesshollywood or Enews and I have not even heard no radio person talk about this trash. that tell you something right there. They got burned with the Radar nonsense in June by just posting what was said without fact checking. The only reason why I was seeing this story was because I was on here an then google MJ name; other than that, I would know nothing of this story, the overall public does not care including the so called legit news outlet.

 

[barbee0715]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Even Roger Feldman has Wade on tape in 2012 praising MJ. The REAL media is not going to touch this nonsense. Not even entertainment shows like Et or Accesshollywood or Enews and I have not even heard not radio person talk about this trash. that tell you something right there. They got burned with the Radar nonsense in June by just posting what was said without fact checking. The only reason why I was seeing this story was because I was on here an then google MJ name; other than that, I would know nothing of this story, the overall public does not care including the so called legit news outlet.

I agree. I'm actually watching for that. But so far, nothing. Was a little disappointed that People would run with the story, BUT People online is a little different than the magazine (a more traditional mag). They just pick up anything and everything. I guess they have to have new stuff every day.

 

[terrell]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I agree. I'm actually watching for that. But so far, nothing. Was a little disappointed that People would run with the story, BUT People online is a little different than the magazine (a more traditional mag). They just pick up anything and everything. I guess they have to have new stuff every day.

So true. The only nuts Wade are entertaining are MJ haters and, internet trolls (No one of creditability and substance care what this nut think). For anyone to find this story in order to talk trash about MJ who clearly do not know the facts are people who SEEK OUT Michael on purpose to trash talk.

 

[barbee0715]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So true. The only nuts Wade are entertaining are MJ haters and, internet trolls (No one of creditability and substance care what this nut think). For anyone to find this story in order talk trash about MJ who clearly do not know the facts are people who SEEK OUT Michael on purpose to trash talk.

I agree. Like you said you did a Google search to find it, I set up a Google alert on Michael back in 2009 because I was trying to get current news on what happened to him and I still get an email every day with about 10-20 stories from all over the world. I set one up on Wade too because I wanted to see what was going on with his case. So these trolls most likely have the exact same thing.

 

[8701girl]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Someone on Twitter says wade's lawyers claim wade thinks "he gave birth to his son"....is this true?..... :blink:

 

[ivy]

Someone on Twitter says wade's lawyers claim wade thinks "he gave birth to his son"....is this true?..... :blink:

true see below

Michael Jackson Accuser Wade Robson Recalled Alleged Abuse After Becoming a Father: 'This Wasn't Loving, Normal Behavior,' Says Lawyer

BY JORDAN RUNTAGH @jordanruntagh 09/16/2016 AT 05:15 PM EDT


Celebrity choreographer Wade Robson recently amended his 2013 legal claim that he was sexually abused by Michael Jackson with the startling allegation that the artist operated the "most sophisticated public child sexual abuse procurement and facilitation organization the world has known."

The fact that he waited until decades after the alleged abuse took place – and three years after Jackson had died – has raised some eyebrows, but his lawyer says that Robson repressed the painful memories until 2012, after becoming a father to now 5½-year-son Koa.

"He just recently made that determination soon after giving birth to his first child," attorney Vince Finaldi tells PEOPLE exclusively. "He started having all these things come up. This wasn't loving, normal behavior – things that the world just won't understand. If this were my child I would absolutely not be okay with it. This is sexual abuse. He went to a therapist."

 

[8701girl]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

true see below

Maybe they meant like after his wife had the baby I mean lots of couples say " after we had the baby" ....but still this is disturbing...

 

[barbee0715]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Maybe they meant like after his wife had the baby I mean lots of couples say " after we had the baby" ....but still this is disturbing...

oh, the attorney either worded it badly or the People reporter didn't write it down correctly. They don't mean that Wade thinks he literally gave birth.

 

[redfrog]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

oh, the attorney either worded it badly or the People reporter didn't write it down correctly. They don't mean that Wade thinks he literally gave birth.

This BS was invented by his former lawyers. Safechuck says the same thing that he had to look at this SECOND child
to realize that he was abused.

Robson was around many kids long before 2012 including MJ's own kids. But somehow it never hit him
that sex with a child is wrong. It only hit him when he looked at his OWN son. Yeah sure.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

What was the judge reasons so far to allow this case to reach this stage? I was reading the relevant code.

1) Did he find that wades side presented sufficient evidence to show that the companies owed him a duty of care?
2) Did he find that the companies have powers to directe MJ's powers?

If I remember correctly, the judge found some basis (sufficient to move to the next stage) to some of his allegations, but I can't remember what was exactly his justification.

I believe it is essential for them to prove that the companies had power over MJ?
Moreover, I read more about the mandatory reporters under California laws, the criteria is very loose and almost anyoe could argue everyone fall under one of the categories. It is intended to be interpreted in the most liberal way. Therefore, that might be a point the judge will side with them on, assuming that the category of employees of private organizations whose duties required they have contact with children was already part of the law when the so called abuse started.

 

[redfrog]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Moreover, I read more about the mandatory reporters under California laws, the criteria is very loose and almost anyoe could argue everyone fall under one of the categories. It is intended to be interpreted in the most liberal way. Therefore, that might be a point the judge will side with them on, assuming that the category of employees of private organizations whose duties required they have contact with children was already part of the law when the so called abuse started.

But what exactly should they have reported?
Shouldn't Robson produce evidence that someone at those companies knew about any abuse before Chandler?
None of those employees reported anything to anyone before the Chandler case gave them the opportunity to
make money with tabloids.
And after Chandler what should they have reported?
That Robson was abused? When Robson and his family died that he was abused?

 

[ivy]

What was the judge reasons so far to allow this case to reach this stage? I was reading the relevant code.

1) Did he find that wades side presented sufficient evidence to show that the companies owed him a duty of care?
2) Did he find that the companies have powers to directe MJ's powers?

If I remember correctly, the judge found some basis (sufficient to move to the next stage) to some of his allegations, but I can't remember what was exactly his justification. .

He said in order to determine if those claims are true or not there needs to be “factual determination in a proceeding beyond demurrer.”

See during an initial complaint/ demurrer Robson isn't required to show any evidence. Anything he claims is accepted as true/fact for the purpose of demurrer. In a demurrer Estate also cannot bring any new or counter evidence. They can only use whatever Robson says and laws.

So basically Robson said MJJP/MJJV were companies MJ owned but those companies had power on MJ. Judge had to accept it as true for the purpose of demurrer. Estate said "look Robson said MJ owned the companies so they couldn't control him". Judge said "I need more info". Robson said the organizations knew or should have known to satisfy the exception rule to be able to file after 26 years old. Judge had to accept it. Estate said how could they have known when Robson has denied it himself (something mentioned in his complaint). Judge said "I need more info".

So short as the judge needed to accept everything Robson claimed during demurrer and Estate isn't allowed to bring counter evidence per law, judge felt he didn't have enough. "Beyond demurrer" means discovery and summary judgment allows you to bring any and all evidence from the discovery. So when presented with that information judge can dismiss this at summary judgment.

I believe it is essential for them to prove that the companies had power over MJ?

Yes as well as the companies knew or should have known.

Moreover, I read more about the mandatory reporters under California laws, the criteria is very loose and almost anyoe could argue everyone fall under one of the categories. It is intended to be interpreted in the most liberal way. Therefore, that might be a point the judge will side with them on, assuming that the category of employees of private organizations whose duties required they have contact with children was already part of the law when the so called abuse started.

See my take on it is that those organizations listed are organizations aimed towards kids - day care center, schools, camps. Organizations that have children's programs - sunday school at church etc. it's people who spend considerable amount of time with the kids regularly. Such as teacher would see the kids 5 times a week for hours. So these people can recognize the signs of abuse. Other people are the people who can see or confided about abuse. Such as a nurse seeing a bruise, a photograph developer seeing an inappropriate photo, a priest or a policeman that the child confides in etc.

I truly don't think anyone in MJJP/MJJV had duties that required them to have contact or supervision of the kids. For example they mention they want to add the Neverland trust as a defendant because Francia was an employee in that. So I get it to mean that they think Francia should have been a mandated reporter and the Neverland trust is negligent because she wasn't and failed to supervise kids? But what was her job description? Housekeeping. She might have seen kids around but it wasn't her duty to supervise any kid.

Think like this. Let's assume a taxi driver. His job description is driving people , all ages, races, genders around. One adult and a kid gets into his cab and he sees the adult hit the kid. Does that make him a mandated reporter? Is cab company negligent because they didn't train the cab driver to be a mandated reporter?

 

[Bubs]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Going through the rest of the amended complaint, there are more oddities, and more nonsense.

Paras 83- 84 includes more copy/pastes.
(I've used P for Plaintiff and D for Defendants)

In 83 it says 'P's employment and personal development has been adversely affected, P has lost wages... She suffered at the hands of D's and will continue to lose wages. ...
In 84 at about points 11-12 Plaintiff is twice referred to as 'her'

Para 88 seems like a copy/paste:
Plaintiff held great trust, faith and confidence in defendants which by virtue of defendant's wrongful conduct turned to fear. (---- REALLY, when exactly would that be, then?? ..or is this from another case?)

P91 is extraordinary...pain of body...prevented from performing daily activities???

As a result of the above-described conduct, P suffered and continues to suffer great pain of mind and body, shock, emotional distress, physical manifestations of emotional distress, embarrassment, loss of self-esteem, disgrace, humiliation and loss of enjoyment of life....... and also ....... have suffered and continue to suffer and were prevented and will continue to be prevented from performing daily activities and obtaining full enjoyment of life.

P110 is odd:
P is informed and believes and on that basis alleges that the Ds MJJP and MJJV and Does 6-50 were placed on actual or constructive notice that MJ had children prior to and /or during the time he was in contact with the P.

Are all the 'oddities' of wording (the ones that don't make sense) some kind of deliberate delay tactic, so that the Estate lawyers have to ask what these paragraphs mean?

I see that Wade doesn't want much...only 'past, present and future general and special damages, punitive damages, statutory damages, costs of suit, attorneys fees, and interest as allowed by law.'

That firm is specialised child abuses cases, so certainly they have templates they use so they don't have to write the whole lot over and over again - thus they forgot change thing from that template:scratch: