[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

[Bubs]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Does anyone know who else, other than Norma Staikos, was working with MJJ Productions and MJJ Ventures during that time?

 

[Goddess4Real]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

And let's not forget it's not that he tried to hide it from the world:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPbezJ7Vb_g





OK where is the "shocking evidence" that these companies ran the most sophisticated public child abuse organization?

"Informed and believes" is enough to win summary judgement?
Don't they have to produce some proof?

did he change the first trip story?
In his original complaint he said he was abused the second night when he was alone
there with his sister. By now he has to know that his sister said she slept in that bed
the second night.
He previously said he slept in a bed with MJ in his condo and was molested there being alone with MJ.
But Francia testified there was no bed in that condo at all only sleeping bags and his mother testified
that she and Chantal slept there too with Wade and MJ.
Did he "correct" those things?

Yuuuuuuuup he as gone back and changed some details to fit in with the new version of "his truth"

 

[redfrog]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yuuuuuuuup he as gone back and changed some details to fit in with the new version of "his truth"

 

[myosotis]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

If MJs 'authority, confidence and trust was bestowed on him through MJJP and MJJV', how come Wade and his family were so keen to meet up with MJ in Australia, and after the Disney dance event, when they visited the US ... Is Wade is saying that they had no 'confidence and trust' in MJ as an individual when they started pursuing him..? Wade really wanted to become a mini-MJ dancer because MJ had companies that provided 'confidence and trust'? Or because he liked dancing, and maybe his mother recognised this talent might provide a career that could make him/ them wealthy.

'7' says of the defendants that 'each of them were the alter egos' of the other defendants. Then they seem to say that MJ set up these two companies to hire himself, setting himself up as a mentor and advisor etc. A test of the 'equality' of the 'alter ego' defendants in this case would surely be to ask if MJJP/MJJV could 'fire' MJ against his will. If he was the President/ Owner, I think that is unlikely On the other hand, I imagine that MJ could close the entities MJJP/ MJJV at any time of his choosing.

I don't understand part of para 125....again it loooks like a copy/paste or a typo:
MJ had 'previously engaged and continued to engage in unlawful sexual conduct with patrons and other felonies.'

 

[redfrog]

If MJs 'authority, confidence and trust was bestowed on him through MJJP and MJJV', how come Wade and his family were so keen to meet up with MJ in Australia, and after the Disney dance event, when they visited the US ... Is Wade is saying that they had no 'confidence and trust' in MJ as an individual when they started pursuing him..? '

Sure they didn't.
That's why Joy Robson said this:

7 Q. So you were aware of the fact that at the

8 time that you allowed your children to sleep with

9 Mr. Jackson on the first day or night that you met

10 him, that those children were going to be in a

11 location which you could not get to without somebody

12 from the inside opening the door, correct?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Is there something funny about that?

15 A. I just -- it’s not a problem.

16 Q. I can understand. You weren’t concerned

17 about it at all?

18 A. Not at all.

19 Q. Somebody you just met?

20 A. I -- I think there’s a certain trust that we

21 developed immediately. Nothing ever crossed my mind

22 that there would be a problem there.

 

[8701girl]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Robson must be seriously smoking pot or something cuz he is :crazy:

 

[mjjmsc]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

We shouldn't read these news, honestly it's advisable to not open links on the internet about these allegations, this stupid liar just wants some money, God knows what debt he needs to pay, drugs or anything else, and he started with this crazy, ridiculous story again!

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So if Michael was an employee who owned these companies? And how come they could not just fire Michael and sell everything and desolve the company? This is an attempt to drag it out because they know Wade and his family will be put under oath soon. And how dare they say these awful things about Nora?

 

[myosotis]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

'34' is interesting (about the bedwetting). So Wade is claiming that he wet the bed until he was aged 14. (I guess he'll blame that on MJ's emotional abuse). While it might conceivably have been possible to be changed whilst asleep, wet clothes and movement usually wake children, especially if you need to manoevre them to the extent of changing their clothes. So MJ 'changed Wade's underwear and put his pyjamas back on'. Wade wore underwear under his pyjamas? Was that regular underwear, or incontinence pads? If not incontinence pads, then the mattress would be wet. So they both went back to sleep on a wet mattress? Really? Even if the mattress dried out between visits, it would stink to high heaven. Did any housekeeping staff notice how regularly MJ needed a new mattress? Not a small item that could be smuggled out of or into the house..
Wasn't MJ's mattress seized by the police?

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

And this is why the Estate should do everything to refute this nonsense in the media!
----------------
What so they can do what sneddon did and start changing the timeline and allegations because mjs lawyers were putting out info in the media that sneddon used to build his case. Cases are won in court not the media. We of all ppl know that. Haters will hate regardless.


Re the demurr stage. what Was that about if only the aruments re the companies can come up at summary judgement as om having a brain block

 

[redfrog]

'34' is interesting (about the bedwetting). So Wade is claiming that he wet the bed until he was aged 14.

Will now his mother support this BS claim and say yes he wet the bed?
If he had wet the bed at least after the Chandler allegations Joy Robson or Chantal Robson
would have at least wondered what happened to Wade. But hey had 100% confidence in MJ even after
the Chandler allegations.

As for changing his clothes while asleep:

19 Q. All right. What you’re really telling us is

20 nothing happened while you were awake; isn’t that

21 true?

22 A. I’m telling you that nothing ever happened.

23 Q. Mr. Robson, when you were asleep, you

24 wouldn’t have known what had happened, particularly

25 at age seven, would you have?

26 A. I would think something like that would wake

27 me up.

And this is why the Estate should do everything to refute this nonsense in the media!
----------------
What so they can do what sneddon did and start changing the timeline and allegations because mjs lawyers were putting out info in the media that sneddon used to build his case. Cases are won in court not the media.

But reputations are destroyed in the media and jurors can be prejudiced by the media.
If Robson changed anything in his story after a rebuttal it would only make it easier to discredit him.
Sneddon changing the timeline didn't help him quite to the contrary. It was one of Tom Mez's biggest trump cards.

 

[seany]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Oh and how I wish that the media actually started to do their damn job for once, instead of just uncritically rehashing any salacious claim for a click-bait. You know, like real legal analysis and serious journalism - including representing arguments and facts on BOTH sides of the case, not just always automatically siding with the accuser all the time because that gives the more juicy, most sensationalist headlines. They should remain factual, they should explain the legalities behind these claims - the law and the legal reasons why Robson has to make certain claims. Why is the media today made of a bunch of ignorant clowns who are writing about stuff without having the slightest idea about it? But if they get a call from someone (say Robson's law firm) they will just write down any one-sidedly biased crap due to that connection. All the while dragging their audience along into their ignorance.





Why is the media, for example, not telling their readers here the FACT that MJ actually hasn't met Robson for 2 years after that dance competition that they now ridiculously allege was set up to "to acquire minor sexual abuse victims for Michael Jackson". Where are all the other victims that were "acquired" this way?

As for Robson, how does this theory jive with the factual story of MJ not meeting Wade for another 2 years and when he did it wasn't because he contacted him, but it was Robson's mother who seeked him out and contacted him. And Norma putting Joy Robson on the phone with MJ now supposedly makes her a "madame". (I guess that makes Joy Robson a "pimp" then...) A truly "sophisticated child abuse procurement mechanism".

That Robson hasn't met MJ for another 2 years after the dance competition and that when he next did it was because the Robsons reached out to him, not the other way around is a FACT! If the media was not as biased and one-sided as they are they would be mentioning this very important FACT, which actually single-handedly makes this whole new claim by Robson about the companies ridiculous.

Hey Respect, have you ever tried sending this info to the journalists who print these stories or the editor? I really believe that one day one journo will read it and think, WOW this MJ fan is good.. Maybe we should have a change of heart and report this from another perspective..

Just an idea.. S

 

[seany]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I think Ray is making jordy shut up for some reason

To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Ray Chandler has not seen Jordy Chandler since 1994/94... I would have presumed like his dad, he's want to get as far away as possible from his uncle.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Does anyone know who else, other than Norma Staikos, was working with MJJ Productions and MJJ Ventures during that time?

No idea yet as to which specific employees were employed by MJJP/MJJV. We have a little information in the e-mails between the lawyers that Blanca Franca did not work for either. She was employed by Sycamore Valley Trust. To which Finaldi said then they will add Sycamore Valley Trust as a defendant too.

The thing they are trying to do here from a legal POV is to claim that when people like Blanca Francia, Quindoy, Charli Michaels claimed to have witnessed abuse or inapproprieties that is because of the negligence of the companies, not their individual responsibility. They argue that because the companies supposedly dealt with children those employees were "an administrator or employee of a public or private organization whose duties require direct contact and supervision of children" and that makes these people mandatory reporters. However, when someone works in a job where he or she is a mandatory reporter they need to be informed about their such obligations by the company that employes them in a written form. Since MJJP/MJJC didn't do that it makes them negligent (not these people who failed to report what they claim to have seen) - according to their argument.

I don't think though that maids (Francia), cooks (Quindoy) or even security guards - depending on what is their actual task or obligation (Michaels) are mandatory reporters. Mandatory reporters would typically be teachers, doctors, nurses etc - those whose work duties actually involve "direct contact and supervision of children".

This is a brand new angle and we will have to see the Estate's reply to see more clearly about it.

But are those details the one I was talking about?
The second night/bed issues?

No he hasn't changed his original complaint in that regards. He still claims first night he and Chantal both slept in MJ's bed but on the second night Chantal "expressed concern about sleeping in the same bed with MJ" and so she went sleeping upstairs. Problem is Chantal in her testimony in 2005 claimed the exact opposite. She said MJ and Wade spent the first time alone in the downstairs bed, but by the second night she too grew more comfortable with MJ and slept there as well.

To the media they talked about multiple ppl at those companies who were part of this "organization"
but did they mention any other name other than Norma?

No. Well, they mention Murdock's, Blanca Francia's, Quindoy's claims, if their failing to report the alleged crime makes them a part of this well oiled child abuse machine or something.

They just throw in that line without naming any other child?

They mention the usual suspects. Jordan, Safechuck, Gavin.

'7' says of the defendants that 'each of them were the alter egos' of the other defendants. Then they seem to say that MJ set up these two companies to hire himself, setting himself up as a mentor and advisor etc. A test of the 'equality' of the 'alter ego' defendants in this case would surely be to ask if MJJP/MJJV could 'fire' MJ against his will. If he was the President/ Owner, I think that is unlikely On the other hand, I imagine that MJ could close the entities MJJP/ MJJV at any time of his choosing.

It is incredibly messy and confusing. Once they claim MJ and his companies are one and the same unseperable identities. Then somewhere else they go off on how the companies negligently hired MJ and they shouldn't have placed him in a job where he could contact children. So he negligently hired himself and he shouldn't have placed himself in a position where he could contact children? WTF? How does that make any sense?

I don't understand part of para 125....again it loooks like a copy/paste or a typo:
MJ had 'previously engaged and continued to engage in unlawful sexual conduct with patrons and other felonies.'

A lot of it does seem like copy&paste work from some another case. They keep mentioning school terms like "school" in reference to the company, "teacher" in reference to MJ, "student" in reference to Wade. No doubt to make the impression that this is the same as cases against schools but just because they say so it won't make it true. MJJP/MJJV weren't schools and they did not have the same obligations as a school. Nor was MJ a "teacher" and an employee of these companies who they could have hired or fired or removed him from positions.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Its abit late to be worried about mjs rep now. Ppl made their minds up long ago. Nothing you can do it about it either way. Same as being concerned about any jury being prejudiced. Regardless of how it helped mez it would have been even better if gerragos had kept quiet. It would have been alot nicer if in court evidence was shown of mj not even been there during testimony rather than giving sneddon heads up to then change the timeline x amount of times. Now that would have been a smoking gun.

 

[seany]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

California? Huh??

I thought he went to Australian attorneys to help him??

Are these THEE attorneys who got all those priests arrested as documented in the movie I watched last year.. SPOTLIGHT... Did he go to those lawyers?

If so... Damn. Speechless.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Will now his mother support this BS claim and say yes he wet the bed?

He constructed the story so that he could leave Joy out of it. Well, at the very least this sounds like a preemptive strike to explain why no one (staff, maids who did the bed etc) would realize this alleged bedwetting. Because he is quick to add that when he wetted himself MJ changed his clothes during his sleep. It wouldn't be a very good excuse for Joy not to realize though, because bedwetting isn't so that it only happens when your alleged abuser is there to change your pajamas. It would also happen at home at the Robson's. It reminds me of all the little nonsensical preemtive strikes in Safechuck's story. Such things are always a giveaway.

From whether Joy will suddenly support this we will know if she is a knowing participant in the scheme and lies of Wade - and not just a mother who would rather want to believe her son about this because the other choice would be that her son is an amoral, spineless, scum.

 

[seany]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Too late, I already got a screenshot of it.

Ivy...you are TOO GOOD... TOO TOO GOOD... Never ceases to amaze me you beauty.

S x

 

[seany]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

These tabloid reporters need to quit their jobs and write fiction because they are good at it.

This made me LAUGH OUT LOUD!!

S

 

[redfrog]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

They mention the usual suspects. Jordan, Safechuck, Gavin.

But they had nothing to do with those companies. They claim that MJJP and MJJV somehow owned a duty of care to
Jordan and Gavin and Safechuck? How so?

No. Well, they mention Murdock's, Blanca Francia's, Quindoy's claims, if their failing to report the alleged crime makes them a part of this well oiled child abuse .

I hope the Estate knows there are at least four different versions of Blanca Francia's shower story. I know she and Murdoch
went to Hard Copy. But what did Charlie Michaels do? Did she also sell crap to tabloids? Was she fired? did he sue MJ?
I heard that she wanted to join the Neverland five. Is that true?
Do we know why Sneddon didn't call her in 2005?

To which Finaldi said then they will add Sycamore Valley Trust as a defendant too.

Does that company still exist? Why would it?

The thing they are trying to do here from a legal POV is to claim that when people like Blanca Francia, Quindoy, Charli Michaels claimed to have witnessed abuse or inapproprieties that is because of the negligence of the companies, not their individual responsibility. They argue that because the companies supposedly dealt with children those employees were "an administrator or employee of a public or private organization whose duties require direct contact and supervision of children" and that makes these people mandatory reporters. However, when someone works in a job where he or she is a mandatory reporter they need to be informed about their such obligations by the company that employes them in a written form. Since MJJP/MJJC didn't do that it makes them negligent (not these people who failed to report what they claim to have seen) - according to their argument. .

But what does any of this have to do with Robson's right to file this lawsuit after the age of 26?
What they say is that the companies didn't inform the employees.
OK let's assume they didn't. That is separate from whether those companies had control over MJ and whether they knew about
any abuse. Or is this the way they want to establish that they owned a duty of care?
And whose job was it to inform them anyway? MJ's? Any executive's?

BTW I don't see how maids, security guards, cooks had a duty to supervise children in Neverland. I don't remember any witness from the ranch say that they supervised kids.

Did you see any "shocking evidence" in the complaint that the companies were this super sophisticated
child sex abuse organization? Do they name any other person in those companies who supposedly should have protected Robson?
Or it's just Norma?

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Michel's estate still make money people still go see the Vegas show and buy his records. Nothing a bunch of scumbags do or say is going to change that. Michaels family and so called fans have done their share of hurting Michael's rep since died. I think some people want the estate to settle with Roberson for their own selfish reasons that have nothing to do with Michael.

 

[passy001]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

No idea yet as to which specific employees were employed by MJJP/MJJV. We have a little information in the e-mails between the lawyers that Blanca Franca did not work for either. She was employed by Sycamore Valley Trust. To which Finaldi said then they will add Sycamore Valley Trust as a defendant too.

The thing they are trying to do here from a legal POV is to claim that when people like Blanca Francia, Quindoy, Charli Michaels claimed to have witnessed abuse or inapproprieties that is because of the negligence of the companies, not their individual responsibility. They argue that because the companies supposedly dealt with children those employees were "an administrator or employee of a public or private organization whose duties require direct contact and supervision of children" and that makes these people mandatory reporters. However, when someone works in a job where he or she is a mandatory reporter they need to be informed about their such obligations by the company that employes them in a written form. Since MJJP/MJJC didn't do that it makes them negligent (not these people who failed to report what they claim to have seen) - according to their argument.

I don't think though that maids (Francia), cooks (Quindoy) or even security guards - depending on what is their actual task or obligation (Michaels) are mandatory reporters. Mandatory reporters would typically be teachers, doctors, nurses etc - those whose work duties actually involve "direct contact and supervision of children".

This is a brand new angle and we will have to see the Estate's reply to see more clearly about it.

.

I agree. They are grasping at straws here. MJJP and MJJC simply do not fit the profile of organisations whose duties require direct contact and supervision of children. if this were true, then all businesses out there would be negligent since they deal one way or the other with children. also the companies had no way of knowing what mj was doing in the privacy of his home. add to that the fact that mj himself repeatedly denied any wrong doing, so did robson and his entire family.

Naming these other guys actually weakens their cases since they were proven in court to sell false stories to tabloids.

 

[jaydom7]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Their case is a mess.. The judge doesn't need for them to amend anything. They have no case and no evidence. Again how do they plan on counteracting Wade's 20 years of under oath testimony, depositions, videos and interviews of defending MJ?

 

[Doo Doo Head]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So now MJ's companies were only "likely" the world's most efficient child abuse ring? A bit more modest. What about someone like Jimmy Savile? He somehow managed to actually abuse tons more kids than have ever accused MJ, and all without any covert organization backing him up! This is ludicrous.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So now MJ's companies were only "likely" the world's most efficient child abuse ring?

Organizing a dance competetion where MJ had a meet and greet with the winner and then forgot about him for 2 years then the mother of the winner seeks him out and contacts him again and his secretary puts them on the phone with him supposedly make the most efficient child abuse ring the world has ever seen and makes his secretary a madame. (There is no word about what that makes Joy Robson who pursued MJ and the companies...) Yep, that's their story.

I guess it was "madame" Norma who through black magic telepathically forced Joy to call them. And after such a sophisticated master plan that finally resulted in Wade moving to the US MJ very sophisticatedly spends most time away from them as per Joy's own words in 1995. Surely a sophisticated master plan by a very efficient child abuse ring.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Pimp? ?

 

[LindavG]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Can they even use Gavin as an example of one of Michael's victims in court when Michael was tried and acquitted of all allegations regarding him? Isn't that a form of double jeopardy?

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

They will just call him an accuser

 

[passy001]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Can they even use Gavin as an example of one of Michael's victims in court when Michael was tried and acquitted of all allegations regarding him? Isn't that a form of double jeopardy?

Worse, Gavin's credibility was completely destroyed in the court room. so,as i said before, by naming all these false accusers, robson is undermining his already dodgy case.

Somehow these lawyers think by naming false accusers the estate will suddenly rush to a settlement. doesn't work like that.

 

[redfrog]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Organizing a dance competetion where MJ had a meet and greet with the winner and then forgot about him for 2 years then the mother of the winner seeks him out and contacts him again and his secretary puts them on the phone with him supposedly make the most efficient child abuse ring the world has ever seen and makes his secretary a madame. (There is no word about what that makes Joy Robson who pursued MJ and the companies...) Yep, that's their story.

I guess it was "madame" Norma who through black magic telepathically forced Joy to call them. And after such a sophisticated master plan that finally resulted in Wade moving to the US MJ very sophisticatedly spends most time away from them as per Joy's own words in 1995. Surely a sophisticated master plan by a very efficient child abuse ring.

LOL I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Is there anything they came up with to "prove" that Norma was the madame or
they only mention the 1990 meeting?

Any other example where she "procured" kids for MJ?