[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So...Safechuck's career is doing well then.... (I take it this is the same guy..?)

http://www.mrweb.com/drno/news23067.htm

James Safechuck (pictured) has been promoted to Director of Innovation and Head of the new Innovation Department. His career at the company began a decade ago as a motion graphics designer and animator, then he moved to a role involving digital storytelling from concept through to completion as a developer and software engineer, working with UX, UI and design teams
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

again, don't limit everything to just summary judgment. While some points can be raised at summary judgment, some might only come up during a trial. I imagine this issue will have dueling experts from both parties.

Can Robson's claim that he didn't believe rape was wrong and abuse not consensual sex until 2012 May be subject to this mental exam given how completely outlandish it is? We know that the probate ruling made it clear that Robson knew long before 2012 that sex between a man and a boy was illegal.
So how could he be within the statutes of limitation by simply claiming that before 2012 he didn't realize it was wrong? He knew it was illegal but he was OK with it?
Only an insane person would say such a thing or , of course, a liar desperate to get around the SOL.
So if the mental exam comes back stating that Robson understood long before 2012 what molestation was can the Estate use that to win summary judgement?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Ivy do we know what happen with this? it just happened. a request to get Robson a mental evaluation, a request to seal his deposition etc. A request to seal the deposition is that come from Wade's lawyers?

with what? if you mean mental examination, by the looks for case summary it's been granted. if you mean protective order to seal deposition, that hearing is on August 23rd. we won't know if until then.

So...Safechuck's career is doing well then.... (I take it this is the same guy..?)

yes the same guy but it's not a big company.

Can Robson's claim that he didn't believe rape was wrong and abuse not consensual sex until 2012 May be subject to this mental exam given how
completely outlandish it is? We know that the probate ruling made it clear that Robson knew long before 2012 that sex between a man and a boy was illegal.
So how could he be within the statutes of limitation by simply claiming that before 2012 he didn't realize it was wrong? He knew it was illegal but he was OK with it?
Only an insane person would say such a thing or , of course, a liar desperate to get around the SOL.
So if the mental exam comes back stating that Robson understood long before 2012 what molestation was can the Estate use that to win summary judgement?

now why do you keep asking the same questions over and over again? it's like you don't even think or bother to read and understand and just post stuff for the sake of posting.

for the final time

- mental examination isn't only for summary judgment
- the doctor can provide an opinion about robson's mental situation. Robson will have his own experts with counter information. this isn't like a DNA test that would come with a 99% certainty that "Robson understood long before what molestation was".

Next time think before posting and stop posting the same thing over and over.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Next time think before posting and stop posting the same thing over and over.

I understand it's not only for summary judgment but that was not my latest question.
I asked whether the Estate can use it for summary judgment at all or not and your posts didn't answer that.
Since for summary judgment the issue is the statute of limitation (among other things) the only way for Robson to be within that if
the judge accepts it as at least a possibility that he really didn't see anything wrong with rape before 2012 (since the case is not about repressed memory).
Remember the Kevin Clash accusers claimed something similar that they didn't realize earlier and the judge didn't buy it, they were thrown out on that alone.
So can the result of a mental exam which proves that Robson did understand what MJ allegedly did was wrong and abuse
(there is a live journal post by Robson from 2003 which proves that, there may be other similar evidence)
be used by the Estate to effectively argue that for that reason alone Robson is outside the statute of limitations?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I understand it's not only for summary judgment but that was not my latest question.
I asked whether the Estate can use it for summary judgment at all or not and your posts didn't answer that.

you need to read better. I already answered it two post before.

Depends on the arguments they would raise. if we are solely talking about credibility (lying) that would be more of an issue for jurors and not the judge.

repeating the question a million times won't change the answer. it depends. got it?

Since for summary judgment the issue is the statute of limitation

I don't know why you repeatedly write summary judgment is about statute of limitations. It's not. If you read the ruling - which I suspect- you would have seen that judge is going with the exception rule. The rule when the statute of limitations becomes irrelevant. It's more about the level of control the companies had over MJ and if they knew or should have known of any alleged abuse.

Don't forget probate case got dismissed. Civil case against companies can be brought until 26 years old. However there is an exception. This exception allows lawsuit against third party non perpetrators (in this instance MJ Companies) if they knew or had a reason to know about the unlawful sexual conduct of their employee/ representative/agent (MJ) and failed to take reasonable steps to prevent it. Judge basically said these will be reconsidered during summary judgment and he needs more information/discovery which he called "factual determination in a proceeding beyond demurrer."
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Wade has yet to prove that the companies had a reason to know that this was happening to him still no proof.

Thank you Ivy
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

repeating the question a million times won't change the answer. it depends. got it?

This hardly answers the question how the Estate could use it to win summary judgement (i.e. whether they could use it or not at all).
My question was about what argument they could possibly raise using the mental exam to win summary judgement.


I don't know why you repeatedly write summary judgment is about statute of limitations. It's not.

I said among other things. SOL IS an issue for summary judgement it can be one way to throw out the case, although not the only one.
sol.jpg


Don't forget probate case got dismissed. Civil case against companies can be brought until 26 years old. However there is an exception. This exception allows lawsuit against third party non perpetrators (in this instance MJ Companies) if they knew or had a reason to know about the unlawful sexual conduct of their employee/ representative/agent (MJ) and failed to take reasonable steps to prevent it. Judge basically said these will be reconsidered during summary judgment and he needs more information/discovery which he called "factual determination in a proceeding beyond demurrer."

Yes but this is also the law:

340.1. (a) In an action for recovery of damages suffered as a
result of childhood sexual abuse, the time for commencement of the
action shall be within eight years of the date the plaintiff attains
the age of majority or within three years of the date the plaintiff
discovers or reasonably should have discovered that psychological
injury or illness occurring after the age of majority was caused by
the sexual abuse,
whichever period expires later, for any of the
following actions.

So to be within these three years Robson had two options: either claim repressed memory or this nonsense about not realizing that rape was abuse and didn't see anything wrong with it before 2012.
The Clash accusers tried a similar tactic and it didn't work for them so I'd like to know whether the Estate could use a similar argument that there is no way Robson would not have been aware of his abuse before 2012 so he has no case based on the SOL alone. Robson reasonably should have discovered his injuries long before 2012 I just wondered whether a mental exam could provide proof of that.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I'm probably missing something but it seems like they could save time and money by first addressing if Michael had control of the companies or the companies had control of him. If he had control, game over.
Actually I know it's more complicated than that.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

You guys are good. This is why I love this board.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I'm probably missing something but it seems like they could save time and money by first addressing if Michael had control of the companies or the companies had control of him. If he had control, game over.
Actually I know it's more complicated than that.

You bring up a good point that really not clear so far Wade and his lawyers still need to prove that the companies were aware or had a reason to know this was happen to him so far Wade and his lawyers have yet to show any proof. Imo it look like Michael was in control of his companies not the companies in control of Michael. it could be way back in this thread but like you said if Michael was in control game over.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

You guys are good. This is why I love this board.

Terrell it all about the truth here the facts are here Wade has no claim it all lies.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

This sounds like good news, but I do not know what mental evaluation really includes. I just guess it examines the "clients" mental health in a very detailed way and tries to evluate the accountability. I believe that such an evaluation is really very unpleasant and embarrassing for the client - that might be another reason for the motion of protective order.

It hopefully will show that Robson is a cheater and helps ending that terrible court case!! Regardless of him testifying under protected circumstances or not.

I think they get a psychiatrist to sit down and talk with him & ask him questions
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

There is no way that Wade has a chance in this case if he has to prove that the estate was aware of anything... There is no way they would know what happened (or didn't happen) at MJ's home!
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

This hardly answers the question how the Estate could use it to win summary judgement (i.e. whether they could use it or not at all).
My question was about what argument they could possibly raise using the mental exam to win summary judgement.

I don't know if you are being thick or just annoying. Don't you get that it would depend on what the mental examination uncovers? don't you get that they can use it in their motions? Don't you get it that Robson will probably have experts countering it? so it's not something definitive. Don't you get that it clearly won't be the only thing used in summary judgment?


Yes but this is also the law:

340.1. (a) In an action for recovery of damages suffered as a

continue reading it

(b) (1) No action described in paragraph (2) or (3) of subdivision
(a) may be commenced on or after the plaintiff's 26th birthday.
(2) This subdivision does not apply if the person or entity knew
or had reason to know, or was otherwise on notice, of any unlawful
sexual conduct by an employee, volunteer, representative, or agent,
and failed to take reasonable steps, and to implement reasonable
safeguards, to avoid acts of unlawful sexual conduct in the future by
that person, including, but not limited to, preventing or avoiding
placement of that person in a function or environment in which
contact with children is an inherent part of that function or
environment. For purposes of this subdivision, providing or requiring
counseling is not sufficient, in and of itself, to constitute a
reasonable step or reasonable safeguard.

There is an EXCEPTION to the three years you keep mentioning. So your fixation on 2012 is meaningless.

Your Clash accusers example is also flawed. They sued an individual not a third party entity. Different set of rules and time limitations. Check for church abuse cases. You will see that people sue for abuse allegedly happened decades ago. It's all due to the exception I keep mentioning to you. So to recap if Robson can satisfy this exception (that MJ companies knew, had power to do something but did nothing) he can sue today, he can sue 30 years later. Is it clear now?



I'm probably missing something but it seems like they could save time and money by first addressing if Michael had control of the companies or the companies had control of him. If he had control, game over.
Actually I know it's more complicated than that.

unfortunately it's not a step by step process. control issue will clearly come up during summary judgment and it alone can end this case. but still they'll need to investigate and prepare for everything.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Why does the Estate need to do this mental evaluation to win summary judgement?
How does his mental state relate to the statutes of limitations or whether the companies had control over MJ or whether
they knew about any abuse? How could they use the result of such exam to win judgement?

And why is it so important that they take the risk the result would be that Wade is sane and has no mental issues?
There are so many other things they could use against Robson, why are they

As far as I remember earlier they wanted the doctor's records not a mental exam and the response was that if it goes to trial
the judge would reconsider. So they cannot get the records unless there a trial but they can get a mental exam?
How does that make sense?


Does anyone know anything about this asshole? http://www.oppermanreport.com/

Apparently he made an almost two hour show about the allegations to convince everyone MJ was guilty.
I won't listen to his shit someone who called MJ a pedo on twitter posted it so I assume he is a lunatic liar.
https://twitter.com/EmailRevealer/status/762414575673221120

Does anyone in America know whether he is relevant there or not?

He did a podcast with Diane Dimond in which MJ was discussed. I listened to some of it and didn't get around to listening to it in full. From what I heard Diane, once again, lied. She spoke about the settlement and claimed Jordan received $15.3 million, the parents got $1.5 million each, and Larry Feldman $5 million. Basically she tried to make the settlement amount out to be larger than it was. When infact the $15.3 million, which Jordan received says Diane, was infact spread out amongst the Chandlers and Feldman. If I recall correctly this contradicts what she said in her own book.

The man who hosted the podcast claims to have knowledge of MJ having been CAUGHT abusing a child and it was covered up (during the Victory tour I believe he claimed). Most telling to me was when he said that he was told this and his response to the person who told him was (I'm paraphrasing here) 'Let's go to the media.' He'd rather go to the media than the police. Typical!

I saw he's chasing donations to his website and I think he said he discussed the MJ case further there, no doubt in a bid to gain donators.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So...Safechuck's career is doing well then.... (I take it this is the same guy..?)

http://www.mrweb.com/drno/news23067.htm

James Safechuck (pictured) has been promoted to Director of Innovation and Head of the new Innovation Department. His career at the company began a decade ago as a motion graphics designer and animator, then he moved to a role involving digital storytelling from concept through to completion as a developer and software engineer, working with UX, UI and design teams

After 10 years working for them and close to 40 he got a little promotion in a small company that mainly has young employees. Big deal.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

After 10 years working for them and close to 40 he got a little promotion in a small company that mainly has young employees. Big deal.

Oh, I thought it showed that he might not be eligible for much of a payout (as opposed to his dreams of a fortune) since his life / career has been so little affected by his fictitious trauma.
(And I was also amused that his career involved so much imaginative storytelling.........I think we already knew about that.)
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Oh, I thought it showed that he might not be eligible for much of a payout (as opposed to his dreams of a fortune) since his life / career has been so little affected by his fictitious trauma.
(And I was also amused that his career involved so much imaginative storytelling.........I think we already knew about that.)
I thought the same. Not making millions, but doing WELL in a creative field without a degree. Didn't turn out bad and locked up in a mental home.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I don't know if you are being thick or just annoying. Don't you get that it would depend on what the mental examination uncovers? don't you get that they can use it in their motions? Don't you get it that Robson will probably have experts countering it? so it's not something definitive. Don't you get that it clearly won't be the only thing used in summary judgment?

Nowhere did I say that this could be the only thing used in summary judgment in fact I said twice that this could be used
among other things. I wanted to see a possible scenario where they could use the the exam to win summary judgement.


There is an EXCEPTION to the three years you keep mentioning. So your fixation on 2012 is meaningless.

That's only an exception to 340.1. (b) (1)
No action described in paragraph (2) or (3) of subdivision (a) may be commenced on or after the plaintiff's 26th birthday.

It's NOT an exception to 340.1. (a).
You don't have to be younger than 26 to sue a third party but the lawsuit still have to be filed
within three years of the date you reasonably should have discovered the injury stemming from the abuse.
Real sex abuse victims may not come forward for decades but they don't have the history like Robson
and they don't claim that they thought at age 29 that rape was just fine, at least I never heard of any such case.


Do you know any lawsuit against the Church in California where someone older than 26 who testified
in a child molestation trial and claimed that even at age 29 he didn't know rape was wrong survived summary judgement?
My point is that Robson's claim that he could not reasonably discover the injury before 2012 is obvious bullshit.
He is NOT like the Church victims who remained silent for decades.


Your Clash accusers example is also flawed. They sued an individual not a third party entity. Different set of rules and time limitations.

Their case was still thrown out because the judge didn't buy that they didn't realize until recently the injuries they suffered due to the abuse.
It didn't matter whether they sued Clash or a third party their underlying argument as to why they should be allowed to file this late was bogus.

He did a podcast with Diane Dimond in which MJ was discussed. I listened to some of it and didn't get around to listening to it in full. From what I heard Diane, once again, lied. She spoke about the settlement and claimed Jordan received $15.3 million, the parents got $1.5 million each, and Larry Feldman $5 million. Basically she tried to make the settlement amount out to be larger than it was. When infact the $15.3 million, which Jordan received says Diane, was infact spread out amongst the Chandlers and Feldman. If I recall correctly this contradicts what she said in her own book.

No Jordan got 15 million and the parents got 1.5 each and I don't know how much Feldman got but the rest of it.
MJ paid this over 4 years so it was a few million dollar per year for him nothing compared to how much money he would have lost
if he had had a trial. He lost tens of millions due to the 2005 trial.
When was this podcast? Is this some radio station in the US? Which one?
Funny how they don't see anything strange about the PARENTS wanting money for themselves. Like that happens in legit child molestation cases. I never heard of any real child molest case where the parents wanted money for themselves.
Why would they deserve any money if this had been going on they should be in prison for negligence not getting richer!
Blanca Francia did the same. She wanted money for herself.
Then Larry Feldman said in court that the parents didn't ask for money they just accepted it. Gimme a break.


The man who hosted the podcast claims to have knowledge of MJ having been CAUGHT abusing a child and it was covered up (during the Victory tour I believe he claimed). Most telling to me was when he said that he was told this and his response to the person who told him was (I'm paraphrasing here) 'Let's go to the media.' He'd rather go to the media than the police. Typical!

Geez I wonder how Sneddon could miss this bombshell witness! Opperman himself said that he knows MJ was caught?
I assume he didn't say which child, just another phantom victim.
Did he name who told him that and why he didn't call the police? Why he was not a witness in 2005?
They obviously didn't go to the media with any such story. Not even Sneddon claimed that MJ was caught molesting someone
during the Victory tour.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

We don't know how much he really makes, I would not be surprised if he was only promoted because those in charge of his company thought he might end up becoming a millionaire and being nice to him might turn him into an investor in their company knowing how tech companies struggle to attract investors it is not hard to believe this could be the case. I doubt he is making any amounts remotely close to those in Silicon Valley. Before he filed his frivolous case, he was bitching about having to work for 48 hours a week for nothing.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

There is no way that Wade has a chance in this case if he has to prove that the estate was aware of anything... There is no way they would know what happened (or didn't happen) at MJ's home!

You mean the companies right? Wade is suing the companies he claim that they knew and was aware this was going on and did nothing about it (reason to know) Wade has yet to prove this. Like Ivy mention in her post this can come up in summary judgement and may end this case. Ivy i agree with you you have to be prepare anything can happen. This case just really need to end it a case built on lies no truth in it a waste of time.


And if you do mean the Estate you are right there he has no chance on that either.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Did Wade really think that the Estate was not going to have they expert do a mental evaluation on him to see what really cause this i guess he did not think so. Wade has been going on with his life as if nothing has happen he claim he could not work but he is working he is living a normal life he doesn't look like a person who has bee abuse.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

That's only an exception to 340.1. (b) (1)
No action described in paragraph (2) or (3) of subdivision (a) may be commenced on or after the plaintiff's 26th birthday.

It's NOT an exception to 340.1. (a).

you are reading it wrong. (b) (1) says subdivision (2) or (3) cannot be commenced after 26th birthday. (b) (2) lists the exception to that. which means 26th birthday limitation doesn't apply if the entity knew and did nothing about the abuse.

Real sex abuse victims may not come forward for decades but they don't have the history like Robson
and they don't claim that they thought at age 29 that rape was just fine, at least I never heard of any such case.

what you are failing to grasp is that as long as he can satisfy the exception rule, he doesn't need to show that he didn't understand what abuse is. Like I said before church faced cases from 50 year olds 30-40 years after the abuse. It didn't matter when they "discovered" or "realized" the abuse. In their cases church knew and did nothing. So there was no time limit to file a lawsuit.

I can't be any more clearer. You are going on and on saying if they can show Robson "realized" his abuse before, they can throw the case out. I'm telling you if he can show MJ companies knew and did nothing, when he "realized" his abuse becomes a moot point for the civil case.

Don't forget he made some claims to get around the probate time limits. He failed at that. Civil case against entities is a whole different situation.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

In a nutshell Wade and his lawyers are suing the companies they claim that the companies was aware or knew (reason to know) this was going on and did nothing about it. Wade and his lawyers have yet to show proof of this.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

No Jordan got 15 million and the parents got 1.5 each and I don't know how much Feldman got but the rest of it.
MJ paid this over 4 years so it was a few million dollar per year for him nothing compared to how much money he would have lost
if he had had a trial. He lost tens of millions due to the 2005 trial.
When was this podcast? Is this some radio station in the US? Which one?
Funny how they don't see anything strange about the PARENTS wanting money for themselves. Like that happens in legit child molestation cases. I never heard of any real child molest case where the parents wanted money for themselves.
Why would they deserve any money if this had been going on they should be in prison for negligence not getting richer!
Blanca Francia did the same. She wanted money for herself.
Then Larry Feldman said in court that the parents didn't ask for money they just accepted it. Gimme a break.




Geez I wonder how Sneddon could miss this bombshell witness! Opperman himself said that he knows MJ was caught?
I assume he didn't say which child, just another phantom victim.
Did he name who told him that and why he didn't call the police? Why he was not a witness in 2005?
They obviously didn't go to the media with any such story. Not even Sneddon claimed that MJ was caught molesting someone
during the Victory tour.

Oops, my bad about the settlement figure.

The podcast was in 2014. He didn't name who told him this supposed story.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Oops, my bad about the settlement figure.

The podcast was in 2014. He didn't name who told him this supposed story.
I glanced at the website link that was posted. He's got crazy stuff on there like Hilary and Vince Foster scandal, etc. He is a nobody.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

so has Wade's attorney's proven that MJ's companies were aware of his alleged abuse and did nothing to stop it? I still don't understand why the companies would be aware yet his own Mother didn't and she was right there with him?:busted:
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I thought the same. Not making millions, but doing WELL in a creative field without a degree. Didn't turn out bad and locked up in a mental home.

Absolutely...he seems to be able to hold down a steady job over at least 10 years in a reasonably 'cutting edge' digital company; and seems to have a talent for innovation and research according to his employers.

The company has a showreel to demonstrate its work at the link below. I wonder which motion graphics designer and animator created the little Lego 'moonwalker' at 46 seconds .....surely not traumatised James........?

http://www.avatarlabs.com/reel
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Just watched that. Bit awkward...
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

so has Wade's attorney's proven that MJ's companies were aware of his alleged abuse and did nothing to stop it? I still don't understand why the companies would be aware yet his own Mother didn't and she was right there with him?:busted:

Not yet this can come up in summary judgement and this case could end but like Ivy mention in her post you must be prepare for anything we just have to wait and see.
 
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