[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I was looking to the timeline Respect77 posted at other site and something stood out to me



this part

May 16, 2011 - Starts cognitive therapy for about a month. Does not make allegations.

Mid-April, 2012 - Starts insight-oriented therapy with another therapist.
May 8, 2012 - Makes allegations to his therapist, the first time ever.

Why did the change therapists? Could it be possible the first one didn't buy what he was telling and could that first one be the reason why Estate said what they did?

Yes, there are three doctors at play that we know of so far. One that he went to in 2011 and to whom he did not make allegations. Then before he first made his allegations in May 2012 he changed therapist. And the third one is who wrote his Certificate of Merit.

And yes, it's interesting that he felt the need to change therapist before he came out with his allegations. Did he feel the previous one would not buy it that easily and did he need a "safer" one? In any case, I think it's a good thing the Estate wants to see it what exactly went on with these therapists and Robson. Though I think Robson did not object to the Estate having access to discovery re. the other two therapists, it's this third one that they vehemently oppose that the Estate would have access to.

Of course, I'd expect that the third one is in support of Robson - that's why he was hired for after all, but I wonder if the Estate sees something that makes his "expert" opinion questionable or if some details are revealed in his opinion that make Robson contradictory, questionable etc.

BTW, this Certificate of Merit doc is the same in Safechuck's case IMO. I think so because of this. This is from a motion filed by Robson in May 2014 quoting the Cetrificate of Merit:

And this is from Safechuck's papers, quoting his Certificate of Merit. Almost exactly the same as Robson's - only the specific details of their cases are changed.

Besides, I always found it a bit odd that this therapist would play lawyer and talk about when it's right to apply equitable estoppel instead of strictly sticking to his field.

 

[LastTear]

Barbee0715, I disagree. The Estate’s legal team is requesting that information for a reason. If they discover who paid for those doctors’ services, I would like to know as well.

Would health insurance not cover this? Here it would depend on your cover but not sure about the USA. I don't think this expense would be a fortune but I have to say I would like to see the arrangements with the doctor who wrote the certificate.

 

[myosotis]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes, there are three doctors at play that we know of so far. One that he went to in 2011 and to whom he did not make allegations. Then before he first made his allegations in May 2012 he changed therapist. And the third one is who wrote his Certificate of Merit.

And yes, it's interesting that he felt the need to change therapist before he came out with his allegations. Did he feel the previous one would not buy it that easily and did he need a "safer" one? In any case, I think it's a good thing the Estate wants to see it what exactly went on with these therapists and Robson. Though I think Robson did not object to the Estate having access to discovery re. the other two therapists, it's this third one that they vehemently oppose that the Estate would have access to.

Of course, I'd expect that the third one is in support of Robson - that's why he was hired for after all, but I wonder if the Estate sees something that makes his "expert" opinion questionable or if some details are revealed in his opinion that make Robson contradictory, questionable etc.

BTW, this Certificate of Merit doc is the same in Safechuck's case IMO. I think so because of this. This is from a motion filed by Robson in May 2014 quoting the Cetrificate of Merit:

And this is from Safechuck's papers, quoting his Certificate of Merit. Almost exactly the same as Robson's - only the specific details of their cases are changed.

Besides, I always found it a bit odd that this therapist would play lawyer and talk about when it's right to apply equitable estoppel instead of strictly sticking to his field.

Some of the other wording is also odd. I am not sure that you can feel 'shame and guilt' if you are in 'denial'? Also, I'm surprised that a professional would refer to the plaintiff's 'heart, body and mind' being manipulated. Where is the 'heart'...not in the 'body' in this sense. Do they mean the plaintiff's 'emotions', which are part of the mind? I just think that the use of 'heart' here sounds emotive and unprofessional......

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^ Considering the legal reference (CCP 3517) and the whole equitable estoppel pleading in it, I even wonder if it was really written by Robson's lawyers (at least this part here) and the psychiatrist just signed it.

 

[LastTear]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Some of the other wording is also odd. I am not sure that you can feel 'shame and guilt' if you are in 'denial'? Also, I'm surprised that a professional would refer to the plaintiff's 'heart, body and mind' being manipulated. Where is the 'heart'...not in the 'body' in this sense. Do they mean the plaintiff's 'emotions', which are part of the mind? I just think that the use of 'heart' here sounds emotive and unprofessional......

Yes

^ Considering the legal reference (CCP 3517) and the whole equitable estoppel pleading in it, I even wonder if it was really written by Robson's lawyers (at least this part here) and the psychiatrist just signed it.

And yes!

 

[la_cienega]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

OOoooh this is interesting.

Not only do we know that he went to another lawyer first, but that lawyer obviously felt the case didn't work for some reason? I wonder what was said. Did he have to change his story to make it more appealing to the lawyers he had now? When lawyers turn down cases like this, it's normally because that client's case is really bad and they'd be worried about getting bad PR from it, or even being counter sued.

And yes, SO funny he would resist these documents being handed over, when if this were going to trial, they would have to be. What person coming forwards claiming they're only there for the truth starts freaking out and getting upset about what he's said to people coming out? I mean this was the freakshow who posted it all over his own social networks all the grotesque supposed details of the sexual abuse, but he's upset something from his own case would come out?

This is great news. Tying him up legally is exposing him just the way I hoped it would.

 

[Lil]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Very interesting.. I wonder what he's trying to hide. I hope there's something there that completely destroys his credibility

I mean this was the freakshow who posted it all over his own social networks all the grotesque supposed details of the sexual abuse

I still can't believe he did that tbh.. I can't imagine someone who's actually been sexually abused would ever want those details out there, let alone help spread them around! Especially after claiming shame was an important factor in his decades long silence..:smilerolleyes: I guess it's another one of those examples of how he speaks in textbook abuse language, but then his actions say something very different..

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

How likely is it for the Estate to get that subpoena? Is the opposing argument legit?

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The estate called Robson's argument "absurd" . They even used the case he built his argument on against him. I believe the estate's argument is very strong.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

How likely is it for the Estate to get that subpoena? Is the opposing argument legit?

I don't know about the legals of it but if the Judge gave Robson every kind of discovery that they asked for I think it would be fair if he gave this discovery to the Estate as well.

 

[Tygger]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Would health insurance not cover this? Here it would depend on your cover but not sure about the USA. I don't think this expense would be a fortune but I have to say I would like to see the arrangements with the doctor who wrote the certificate.

Hopefully the judge will allow the Estate lawyers' requests and then they will know who paid for all three doctors' services.

I understand the Estate's legal team is requesting this information for a reason. I am hopeful the public will receive this information as well but, due to the timing (provided the July 20th date does not change), there may be a larger story for Radar Online for example to report.

By the way, can anyone speak to the consistency of Radar Online's distribution of the legal documents in Robson/Safechuck's filings or have they been erratic or random in their distribution?

 

[christy]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Consulting other lawyers before. where have we heard that before!!

Taken outta the playbook of a certain delusional mum page by page.
From one mentally deranged to another.
Probably that's why he tried so hard not to give what the estate wants.
Should be interesting what his shrink found....

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

By the way, can anyone speak to the consistency of Radar Online's distribution of the legal documents in Robson/Safechuck's filings or have they been erratic or random in their distribution?

Erratic and random IMO. They mostly post Robson's motions and pro-Robson articles so this was a bit surprising from them to post.

On July 20 I think there will be three main issues on schedule:

1) Estate demurrer re. Robson's civil lawsuit against MJ's companies.
2) This request by the Estate to have discovery on Robson's therapists.
3) Estate demurrer against Safechuck in probate court.

 

[Tygger]

Respect77, thank you.

Another question please: has there been any duplication of efforts in distributing these documents?

Example: if Radar Online is dependable in retrieving Robson’s legal team’s filings routinely, then is it expected another must retrieve the Estate’s legal team’s filings and another for Safechuck’s filings? Or, Radar Online or another consistently retrieves these documents but, does not distribute them routinely?

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Most of the docs I have seen came from either RadarOnline or Ivy's blog. Ivy bought them on her own from the court. I don't think the Estate distributes them to anyone.

 

[Tygger]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^Yes, most documents have been distributed by Ivy or Radar Online. There was a distribution of Safechuck's filings at a time by a hater site as well but, I believe that may have happened only once. Not much duplication of efforts.

 

[myosotis]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I see that 'So you think you can dance' is having a 10-year celebration. I wonder if they will mention Wade? I'm guessing he won't appear on screen in person, as he's not due back in the USA (mainland) until next month, according to his sister...........???? (I'm guessing that he won't be one of the 'surprises!)

AND...it's on a rather interesting date! Reminds me of the Xscape timing..in reverse!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'So You Think You Can Dance' to celebrate a decade of dance with two-night event on FOX
Broadcast to include performances of fan-favorite stage and street routines, favorite moments from the past, as well as plenty of surprises.

FOX will air a two-night event celebrating 10 inspiring years of "So You Think You Can Dance" on Monday, July 20 (8 p.m.), and Tuesday, July 21 (8 p.m.). On Monday, the competition heats up when two dancers - one stage and one street - will be going home in the season's first elimination show. Then, on Tuesday, before the series premiere of "Knock Knock Live" (9 p.m.), FOX celebrates 10 years of "So You Think You Can Dance" with a one-time-only special featuring live performances by some of the series' favorite dancers and choreographers, as well as present stage and street routines and musical productions from the past 10 years.

http://www.wnypapers.com/news/artic...a-decade-of-dance-with-two-night-event-on-fox

 

[TinnyandOdd]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So I stumbled across Robson's FB page by accident and stupidly clicked a photo posted June 18th of him mentioning his dance class in Hawaii (which was bad enough), and then I noticed it had 2 supportive comments from Tina Landon and Cris Judd mentioning how they wished they could be there and bro love and blah blah blah. WTF?!? :evil:

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^ So not only does he direct films but he now has dance classes? But I thought dance was too much associated with Michael to him for him to be able to do it again. Didn't he also say once that his "old life" did not mean anything to him any more? Yet, he is slowly trying to get back to all of his old activities, using his old connections.

And yeah it's sad to see some apparently buying his kool-aid. Or they just try to have it both ways, like Vincent Paterson when he was called out about a supportive comment on Robson's FB and he said some BS about Michael being about forgiveness or something like that. As if that's a pass for Wade to abuse his memory.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Most of these dancers were opportunities themselves , Cris Judd no exemption of course, having a cover of himself dancing with Janet on MJ's tribute for three years. Either he believes the guy he is paying tribute to was a monster or Wade is a liar. But for some twisted reason, they want to stay cool with both sides. Do you believe such people have an ounce of integrity? I do not.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Most of these dancers were opportunities themselves , Cris Judd no exemption of course, having a cover of himself dancing with Janet on MJ's tribute for three years. Either he believes the guy he is paying tribute to was a monster or Wade is a liar. But for some twisted reason, they want to stay cool with both sides. Do you believe such people have an ounce of integrity? I do not.

I think much of the celebrity world - even on this C-list level - is full of fake and very superficial people, so I'm not expecting much from these people in terms of integrity.

 

[TinnyandOdd]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^ So not only does he direct films but he now has dance classes? But I thought dance was too much associated with Michael to him for him to be able to do it again. Didn't he also say once that his "old life" did not mean anything to him any more? Yet, he is slowly trying to get back to all of his old activities, using his old connections.

It's like he realized his case wasn't as solid as he thought it would be and slowly starting creeping back in? Then to turn around (and publicly no less) and work anyways (when his whole thing is that he can't, cause you know, he's traumatized) while he's still in the middle of the case and just basically be like, "er ... f**k it I need to pay my bills."

I think much of the celebrity world - even on this C-list level - is full of fake and very superficial people, so I'm not expecting much from these people in terms of integrity.

I agree with this, and I could really care less about Cris Judd (albeit still disappointing), but I was surprised to see Tina Landon on there, especially considering how close she used to be with Janet (and assuming they had patched things up RE: VMA Tribute 2009.) Plus I just listened to her talk about the making of Scream for an hour talking about how great he was on Kelly Anderson posted on June 6th (before her Wade comment.)

Or they just try to have it both ways, like Vincent Paterson when he was called out about a supportive comment on Robson's FB and he said some BS about Michael being about forgiveness or something like that. As if that's a pass for Wade to abuse his memory.

Did Vincent say he supported Wade or he thought Michael was innocent and Michael would forgive Wade for his allegations?

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Did Vincent say he supported Wade or he thought Michael was innocent and Michael would forgive Wade for his allegations?

The comment he supported Robson on wasn't about the allegations, it was just some general "hi bro" type of thing (similar to what you say about Judd and Landon) but fans questioned him about it later telling him how they could not believe he was so chummy with someone who accuses MJ of something like that. And he tried to get out of it with some nonsense comment about forgiveness or something. He never said if he believed or did not believe Robson.

Brian Friedman however did say he believed and supported him. We discussed him here back then. He seems to be a similar moral compass as Robson so no surprise there: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...page494?p=4035385&highlight=Brian#post4035385

Based on tweets among them it seems these people - Robson, Friedman, Judd, Landon - are all friendly with each other. Having worked in the same industry and probably several projects together that's no surprise either. It's sad that out of that branch that tributed MJ with Janet in 2009 one turned on him and three are supportive of Robson more or less. But like said this is an industry full of fakeness.

Trying to see it from their perspective, of course, they cannot know what went on between MJ and Robson behind closed doors and they probably do not know anything about the court case. If they talk with Robson from time to time they might have heard his side without hearing Michael's which would influence them in a certain direction. Also, MJ wasn't really a close friend of any of them, they were just dancer/choreographers who worked with him on a certain project, while they are probably closer to Robson and thus more inclined to be supportive of him. So I get that from their perspective but it still feels like betrayal in a way. And yes, if they think MJ might have been capable of doing what Robson accuses him of then they should stop using his name for promoting their careers.

 

[TinnyandOdd]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

In regards to Vincent, it just brings me back to 2005 when everyone was talking about how Michael's "friends" had abandoned him. I don't think Robson would have brought this case forward if MJ were still alive, but if he had, it makes me wonder who in MJ's working relationships would side with him if he was? It's no wonder he ended up paranoid and isolated in his last couple of years. As for Friedman, I always got an arrogant creep vibe from him. Even in the making of the VMA tribute video he seemed like he couldn't really care less that he was there, more so his arrogance gave off a "of course I should be here but it's not a big deal" thing to me. Ever since the 90's when I started following dancers he always seemed like kind of a douche, so his actions don't really surprise me.

Sidenote to lighten the mood: Out of 202 songs on shuffle, Tabloid Junkie came on while I was reading in here :busted:

 

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I don't know about the legals of it but if the Judge gave Robson every kind of discovery that they asked for I think it would be fair if he gave this discovery to the Estate as well.

This is what I think too. Discovery being allowed for Estate as well.

Hopefully the judge will allow the Estate lawyers' requests and then they will know who paid for all three doctors' services.

even though the judge allows Estate's request, if the case gets dismissed before discovery, the discovery would became moot and wouldn't happen.

I am hopeful the public will receive this information as well but

well first the discovery needs to happen and then the only way public sees it would be if it is used at one motion /added as exhibit (of course needs to be a public filing, not redacted or sealed) and/or if this goes to trial and it is used as an exhibit.

, due to the timing (provided the July 20th date does not change), there may be a larger story for Radar Online for example to report.

what do you mean? what larger story?

On July 20 I think there will be three main issues on schedule:

1) Estate demurrer re. Robson's civil lawsuit against MJ's companies.
2) This request by the Estate to have discovery on Robson's therapists.
3) Estate demurrer against Safechuck in probate court.

yep everything is now on the same day.

Not much duplication of efforts.

Not many people/media follow these cases. It's mostly RO, haters and me. I can get and post civil case documents, RO posted Robson and Safechuck documents and I think the haters got the probate documents that RO did not post.

 

[la_cienega]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

He's even going back to dancing???

Yes, like someone else said, I think this isn't just about being desperate for $$$, but also because maybe his case is being blown open and he's realizing he doesn't/can't cling to it for much longer? Like he's realized the estate has something on him, and this is his way of adjusting to retreating back away from it?

I can't believe he'd go back to dance. Everything he does in dance is related to MJ.

And he wants to go back to it.

Imagine being so traumatized you have all these breakdowns and tell your family you can't work over it ever again and have to sue about it, then turn around and go back to it like this.

If his sister believes him, how can she reconcile all of this together? That it's okay so long as he gets "justice" aka money? But then watch him make a miracle healing progress out of nowhere back into the career that broke him? I would not be able to look my brother in the eye.

 

[barbee0715]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I don't care about his sister. I do care that the dance/entertainment industry not look him in the eye and not welcome him back with any kind of open arms. I KNOW it's a horrible, horrible business-and it's not only greedy, and grasping and stabbing people in the back, but it's also everybody sleeping with everybody else, etc. BUT, it's not always about accusing somebody about being a CHILD MOLESTER.

I know it hasn't had a lot of publicity, but it has to have gotten around there.

 

[SarahJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I doubt there are many people in the dance community who haven't heard about it. As said earlier, their probably hedging their bets. If they believed an association or friendship with Wade would hurt them career wise, they'd drop him in a heartbeat.

Loyalty only goes so far in that industry. Career, money, fame thats what matters. Not for all of course, but for a lot of them.

 

[barbee0715]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I doubt there are many people in the dance community who haven't heard about it. As said earlier, their probably hedging their bets. If they believed an association or friendship with Wade would hurt them career wise, they'd drop him in a heartbeat.

Loyalty only goes so far in that industry. Career, money, fame thats what matters. Not for all of course, but for a lot of them.

I agree with you 100%. I've been fascinated with Hollywood/Entertainment industry since I was little, and devoured books about behind the scenes in showbusiness as well as tons of biographies. And it was always a little amazing to me how such a really "dirty" business could be responsible for the most amazing magic and wonder.

I'll be glad when this is over, so we can see how he is treated. He better be a pariah.

 

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

He's even going back to dancing???

I can't believe he'd go back to dance. Everything he does in dance is related to MJ.

I wouldn't say he is going back to dancing - at least professionally.

His wife has recently started a gourmet culinary events company and during father's day event Wade had a dance party (as his wife called it) or a dance session (as he called it). He wrote "no expertise required, so easy so fun". so at most he showed some dance moves to regular people who attended a dinner.

So like I said personally I wouldn't say that he has gone back to dance. Now if he takes part in SYTYCD that's a whole different thing.