[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

it would become a lot more clearer when they add the minute order to the online system but yeah. there will be another hearing. Perhaps today's hearing did not even happen.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

it would become a lot more clearer when they add the minute order to the online system but yeah. there will be another hearing. Perhaps today's hearing did not even happen.


If it did happen is the transcript of the hearing available online?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^

no and are you castor?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

or maybe it's the sister this time.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

probate case

07/20/2015 at 08:30 am in department 51 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Hearing on Demurrer(to James Safechuck's AmendedPetition for Order to File aLate Creditor's Claim;)

robson civil case

07/20/2015 at 08:32 am in department 51 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Motion to Quash( Demurrer 2X)

Again change in hearing dates? look like both demurrers are now set for July 20.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

probate case

07/20/2015 at 08:30 am in department 51 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Hearing on Demurrer(to James Safechuck's AmendedPetition for Order to File aLate Creditor's Claim;)

robson civil case

07/20/2015 at 08:32 am in department 51 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Motion to Quash( Demurrer 2X)

Again change in hearing dates? look like both demurrers are now set for July 20.

There were the two demurrers (Robson case, Safechuck case) and there was the hearing for motion to quash the one subpoena about the therapist who vouches for Robson (well, that therapist is probably the same for both of them). Since the dates of those hearings were so close to one another (the motion to squash hearing was set for July 13, the Safechuck hearing either for July 8 or July 21 etc.) that I think they might have decided to have all these hearings on the same day, so that they do not have to go to court so often.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So while getting Estate accounting yesterday, we also got Safechuck's opposition to Estate demurrer. It was one of most recent documents filed (June 24th) and unfortunately we didn't know when Estate filed their demurrer and didn't/couldn't get that.

Document here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/270284598/Safechuck-Opposition-to-MJ-Estate-Demurrer
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So basically they want the court to set a precedent and they say as much at the end of the document.


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Going back to the beginning of it:


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As alleged "acts of Jackson that support" Safechuck's argument for equitable estoppel are the following:


MJ allegedly psychologically manipulated and intimidated Safechuck to remain quite about the alleged abuse ("if you tell anyone, your life will be over"). Allegedly these words resonated "deeply within Safechuck's youthful mind and became a part of who he was." This "powerful indoctrination" (LOL) "was reinforced immesurably" by the fact of MJ's global icon status with "godlike authority" and all the usual nonsense about MJ being godlike and all powerful etc. This allegedly made Safechuck live all his life in fear that his life would be coming to an end if he ever got exposed. It did not end when Safechuck was an adult, not during the 2005 trial, nor when MJ died, instead: "Only after seeking therapy has Safechuck finally begun to come to terms with the incredible harm to his psyche caused by Jackson's abuse, and to face the intense fear he carried with him for almost his entire life." (Obviously seeing Robson filing a multi-million dollar civil claim was very, very threpeutic and helpful to him in realizing this and "coming to terms with it", I guess...)


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As for a legal argument to me it seems, that they basically want the court to ignore Probate Code 9103.
In their opinion equitable estoppel should be applied to Safechuck and that defeats the time limitations in PC 9103 and CCP 366.2.


The four elements of equitable estoppel are:


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They claim they meet all of those (I personally don't think so, but let's see):


(1) MJ allegedly threatened Safechuck that his life would be over, which demonstrates MJ "knew the facts" and that "he was committing wrongful sexual acts with Safechuck". (Remember at this stage all of Safechuck's claims have to be treated as if they were true.)

(2) MJ allegedly indoctrinated Safechuck into believing he was a consensual participant, the alleged sexual acts were Safechuck's idea bla-bla-bla and he intended Safechuck to act upon those threats (ie. not to tell anyone). MJ allegedly continued to indimidate Safechuck in 2005 trying to "intimidate him into testifying on Jackson's behalf and warning Safechuck of the dire consequences which would ensue if the truth came out."


(3) This is where I see a problem for Safechuck to claim equitable estoppel. (3) is: "the party asserting estoppel must be unaware of the true facts". So let's see their little gem in support of this element:


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His allegations are just all over the place. As we remember first he claimed he told his mother in 2005 that he was abused. Then when the Judge pointed out that it's a problem for his claim, he backtracked about it in his next declaration saying he did not really tell his mother in 2005 that he was abused only that MJ "was a bad man" and "something bad happened". Marzano must have forgot about that now, because in this document once again she mentions that Safechuck allegedly told his mother in 2005 that he was abused. On page 2 of this same complaint:


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Even his lawyer seems to be confused by these web of lies by now. LOL.

In any case, the argument that they use for the 3rd element of estoppel is in direct contradiction with whatever he alleges happened between him and his mother in 2005. Even if he is allowed to change his story and he now claims he just told his mother that MJ "was a bad man" and "something bad happened", that would still contradict what he claims in support of the 3rd element of equitable estoppel that he was "unaware of the illicit, non-consensual nature of the molestation and wrongful sexual, and the harm that they caused him, until he sought therapy as an adult". If he wasn't aware of the wrongfulness, illicit, non-consensual nature of such acts why exactly did he think and say MJ was a bad man and something bad happen?


(4)
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Yeah, neither 1993 or 2005 or even MJ's death managed that breakthrough. Robson talking about a multi-million dollar lawsuit with such allegations was exactly what was needed for him to go to therapy and to achieve a breakthrough. How convenient. But of course the Court has to treat his allegations as true no matter how nonsensical. Except when his own claims elsewhere beat his argument for the 3rd element of equitable estoppel. I think that is the most problematic element for him.

But also (4). That one logically does not make any sense to me. He DID NOT achieve a breakthrough in therapy AFTER PC 9103 expired. As per his own allegations he went into therapy in May 2013. The 60 days time limit of PC 9103 starts when Safechuck himself claims that he has all the "facts", all the knowledge etc. required to file a complaint. It's him giving the start sign to those 60 days. So how could it have expired by the time he went into therapy and his therapist no doubt told him that his psychological illness is linked to alleged abuse? That's when it started. That he did not file within 60 days of that (or at the very latest within 60 days of contacting Robson's lawyers) is no one's fault but his own and his lawyers'.


His legal argument is that that the question of whether estoppel can be applied to overcome statutes of limitations is an issue that to be determined by the trier of fact. I know that a trial is a "trier of fact" but is a summary judgement also? So is his argument that it necessarily has to go to trial or just that it necessarily has to pass demurrer?


And when his own claims defeat one of the elements of equitable estoppel (3) then is a "trier of fact" really required? If that would be so this whole back and forth about demurrer and summary judgement would not make any sense since once he claimed equitable estoppel it should go to trial automatically. I somehow doubt that is the case.


They cite a precedent where apparently the plaintiff claimed insanity and her mental capacities were such that she could not make a timely claim.


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So this is how desperate they are. His lawyers basically compare him to a mentally disabled person. Later in the complaint they cite another case where the plaintiff tried to claim insanity. Bravo. But I guess they know how it looks, so later in the complaint they feel the need to point out that they do not claim that Safechuck is insane. LOL.


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Then they talk a lot about CCP 340.1 trying to act as if that is the law that applies to them here instead of PC 9103. Obviously because CCP 340.1 would give them a 3 year time frame to file a lawsuit from the time Safechuck claims he discovered that psychological injury or illness was caused by the alleged abuse. But as we have seen when talking about these laws in Robson's case this only applies to defendants who are still alive. So what they are doing is basically arguing for the spirit of the law, which is - in their opinion - that courts do everything to be supportive of equitable estoppels in child abuse cases. Here they use a precedent case called DeRose vs. Carswell which is the other case they cite where apparently the plaintiff tried to claim insanity and this is where Robson's lawyer feels the need to emphasize that they do not claim insanity in Safechuck's case (the part I quoted above). LOL.


Then they say:


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That's OK. But he claims he went into therapy when he heard about Robson's lawsuit, in May 2013. Then he contacted Robson's lawyers in October 2013. They did not file until May 2014. No matter how hard they try to ignore PC 9103 that law gave them every opportunity to file a lawsuit under normal statutory limits when Safechuck says he was aware of all the facts needed for his lawsuit. Obviously as soon as he saw Robson and felt he needed therapy and his therapist told him this was sexual abuse he would know not only that he was allegedly abused but also that it's wrong and illicit and also that his psychological problems are allegedly related to that. How the heck would it make sense to claim otherwise? And under PC 9103 he could have filed a lawsuit within normal time limits. There is just no need for equitable estoppel here.


But at the very latest by October 2013 he would really, really, really have every "fact" (legal, psychological, everything) needed for his complaint. For God's sake he is contacting Robson's lawyers obviously because he wants a lawsuit. And those lawyers would obviously explain to him his legal possibilities and whatever is required to file a timely complaint. So at the very least they should have had to try to file within 60 days of October 2013. Obviously this wasn't a Plaintiff that did due dilligence in order to try to file a timely complaint under normal, statutory laws.


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But this is simply not true. Like I said above, under 9103 he did have a chance to file under normal statutory limits - within 60 days of when he himself claims (May 2013) he connected the dots between his psychological problems and alleged abuse and he missed that through no one else's fault but his own and his lawyers'. They just try so hard to ignore PC 9103 and make laws apply to him that do not apply here, just because that would be more convenient for him. That's what they are basically doing. Incredible.


Then they admit that in all probate cases where equitable estoppel was applied so far it dealt with the conduct of the representatives of the Estate, not the alleged conduct of the dedendent. But they bring other civil cases where equitable estoppel was applied due to the alleged conduct of a deceased person. However I fail to see how those cases should be relevant here. I mean the reason why in this case he should allege something about the Estate representatives' conduct rather than MJ's is because the problematic period for him is between May 2013 and May 2014. According to his own claims he connected his psychological problems to his alleged abuse in May 2013, at latest with the help of his therapist. Or at the very, very latest with the help of his lawyers in October 2013. From then on the law (PC 9103) gave him 60 days to file which he missed. So he should allege something about why he missed that when he already knew all about the wrongfulness of alleged abuse, psychological injury, heck in October 2013 he obviously also knew he had a legal case. So here he should allege something about the Estate or MJ doing something to him which stopped him from filing within those 60 days. MJ was dead so he obviously could not do anything and he cannot claim any such thing about the Estate either.


And BTW, that he claims he was afraid of MJ's celebrity, fame, fans, whatever is not a reason for equitable estoppel. Estoppel arises from something the defendant or his Estate allegedly did, not out of outside circumstances.


They cite further precedents which have totally different circumstances than Safechuck's case. Actually those precedents themselves state that "the issue (of equitable estoppel) is determined from the totality of the circumstances". Which is exactly what speaks against Safechuck being entitiled to equitable estoppel IMO.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So basically they want the court to set a precedent and they say as much at the end of the document.

They asked the court to do the same the last time Wade filed. This is more or less a copypaste of Wade's arguments, I can't see any reason for a different result.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I still don't understand how it is possible to be in 'constant fear that the truth will come out' (Lines 19-20) and simultaneously unaware of the nature of the truth ie that the alleged 'acts were illicit and amounted to abuse'. (Until he discovered 'the truth' through therapy.)
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Basically, same arguments that WR's motions. Like the judge said, estoppel doctrine is against executor's conduct. And from PC9103, he had 60 days to file. His lawyers are incompetent ; when he went to them in oct 2013, he could have filed the claim within 60 days. No excuse for profesionals
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I still don't understand how it is possible to be in 'constant fear that the truth will come out' (Lines 19-20) and simultaneously unaware of the nature of the truth ie that the alleged 'acts were illicit and amounted to abuse'. (Until he discovered 'the truth' through therapy.)

It's difficult to keep so many lies consistent with each other.

His lawyers are incompetent ; when he went to them in oct 2013, he could have filed the claim within 60 days. No excuse for profesionals

Which is why I have this suspicion it was never actually a goal for them to stay within statutes. It's like they just hoped to scare the Estate into a settlement. Which is why it seemed to be more important for them to make their filing of Safechuck's complaint interfere with the release of Xscape rather than to hurry up and at least show some intent to try to stay within statutes.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

U know if this wasnt so sick it would be laughable. only this sort of crap can happen to mj. even now. if only the dumb gen public had a clue about the b.s ness of all these claims.

perhaps chucky should claim insanity. as im sure we will all agree with him then.

on a serious note this pathetic excuse for legal arguments just makes u even more angry. the lieing is so blantent . not that u would ever entertain any truthfulness of the claims. but jeez at least make a better effort. they make me sick the immoral dirty pieces of s***.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It's difficult to keep so many lies consistent with each other.

Which is why I have this suspicion it was never actually a goal for them to stay within statutes. It's like they just hoped to scare the Estate into a settlement. Which is why it seemed to be more important for them to make their filing of Safechuck's complaint interfere with the release of Xscape rather than to hurry up and at least show some intent to try to stay within statutes.

I wonder how they were so sure about Xscape. The first time we've heard about it officialy was last day of March. I think ****** first talked about it around the last week of December. There's this video of Timbaland from August https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76VC2Dsy1SU but it wasn't all that clear
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I wonder how they were so sure about Xscape. The first time we've heard about it officialy was last day of March. I think ****** first talked about it around the last week of December. There's this video of Timbaland from August https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76VC2Dsy1SU but it wasn't all that clear

Timbaland confirmed in a video in August 2013 that he was working on new MJ material. He did not have to give details for Safechuck and his lawyers to know that something was coming some time during the next year and then of course there was more and more talk about a new album coming. And let's not forget these are entertainment lawyers so they might have had heard things from inside the industry as well.

Or they were simply waiting for the next big Estate project which happened to be Xscape. I don't believe the timing of Safechuck's filing was a coincidence. Too big of a coincidence and too focused on impact - ie. their notifying of Dimond so that she could publish an article about it just on the eve of the album release. That was orchestrated IMO. They obviously overestimated the news' impact though and it did not bring the required effect.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Timbaland confirmed in a video in August 2013 that he was working on new MJ material. He did not have to give details for Safechuck and his lawyers to know that something was coming some time during the next year and then of course there was more and more talk about a new album coming. And let's not forget these are entertainment lawyers so they might have had heard things from inside the industry as well.

Or they were simply waiting for the next big Estate project which happened to be Xscape. I don't believe the timing of Safechuck's filing was a coincidence. Too big of a coincidence and too focused on impact - ie. their notifying of Dimond so that she could publish an article about it just on the eve of the album release. That was orchestrated IMO. They obviously overestimated the news' impact though and it did not bring the required effect.

Meaning they would have filed even later than May if the project got delayed for any reason. I too don't believe it was a coincidence. I also think they didn't have to ask Diane twice.
 
Even the precedents they cite, upon closer look speak against their case. From the Ortega vs. Pajaro case:

Claims of estoppel have been rejected, however, where the plaintiff cannot show calculated conduct or representations by the public entity or its agents that induced the plaintiff to remain inactive and not to comply with the claims-presentation requirements.  (See, e.g., Calabrese v. County of Monterey (1967) 251 Cal.App.2d 131, 59 Cal.Rptr. 224;  DeYoung v. Del Mar Thoroughbred Club (1984) 159 Cal.App.3d 858, 206 Cal.Rptr. 28;  Munoz v. State of California (1995) 33 Cal.App.4th 1767, 1786, 39 Cal.Rptr.2d 860.)



In John R. v. Oakland Unified School Dist., supra, 48 Cal.3d 438, 256 Cal.Rptr. 766, 769 P.2d 948, a child molestation case involving a public school teacher, the California Supreme Court held that the doctrine of equitable estoppel could be applied against the school district if the fact-finder determined that the teacher's threats prevented the student from pursuing his claim within the statutory period.15

The court reasoned, “It is well settled that a public entity may be estopped from asserting the limitations of the claims statute where its agents or employees have prevented or deterred the filing of a timely claim by some affirmative act.   [Citations.]  ․ A fortiori, estoppel may certainly be invoked when there are acts of violence or intimidation that are intended to prevent the filing of a claim.  [Citations.]   And here, the teacher's threats to retaliate against John if the boy reported the incidents of sexual molestation allegedly did just that.”  (Id. at p. 445, 256 Cal.Rptr. 766, 769 P.2d 948.)

In all of these precedent cases these were ongoing, current threats where the Plaintiff could reasonably think that the alleged perpetrator would do something to harm them, not some threat told supposedly 25 years ago by a person who is dead for 5-6 years and thus cannot do anything.


These cases have the following in common:  in each, the public entity or one of its agents engaged in some calculated conduct or made some representation or concealed facts which induced the plaintiff not to file a claim or bring an action within the statutory time;  and in each, the plaintiff acted promptly, almost always within a year, after the public entity's conduct which caused the estoppel ceased.

This precedent explains what is considered a reasonable time to file a suit after the effect of the threat, mislead ceases:

As the court explained in John R., child molest victims who intend to sue a school district are required to “present a written claim to the district within [then 100 days, now 6 months] of the accrual of their causes of action - measured from the date [the child] was molested [Gov.Code, § 911.2]” or are required to “present an application for leave to file a late claim within 1 year of that time, as required by Government Code section 911.4, subdivision (b).”  (John R. v. Oakland Unified School Dist., supra, 48 Cal.3d at pp. 443-444, 256 Cal.Rptr. 766, 769 P.2d 948.)   The court concluded “that, for purposes of applying equitable estoppel, the time for filing a claim against the district was tolled during the period that the teacher's threats prevented plaintiffs from pursuing their claims.”  (Id. at p. 445, 256 Cal.Rptr. 766, 769 P.2d 948;  emphasis added.)  

The Supreme Court did not state that plaintiffs were excused from complying with the claims-presentation statutes whenever the district engages in affirmative conduct deterring the filing of a claim.   Rather the court stated that the claims-presentation statutes would be tolled for that period when the district's actions kept the plaintiffs from filing their claims.   This distinction is important.   Tolling refers to suspending or stopping the running of a statute of limitations.   It is analogous to a clock stopping, then restarting.   As far as the claims-presentation statutes are concerned, the clock “stops,” according to John R., during those periods when the district's affirmative acts deter the filing of a claim.   The clock “starts” again once the effects of those affirmative acts have ceased.  (For a discussion of tolling, see e.g., Russell v. Stanford University Hospital (1997) 15 Cal.4th 783, 785-789, 64 Cal.Rptr.2d 97, 937 P.2d 640.)
So this means that it's not some arbitrary time period after the alleged effects of a threat etc. ceased, but basically when the effects cease he has those same 60 days to file compared to that as in the original PC 9103.

On November 25, 1992, Ancira surprisingly pleaded no contest to one count of child molestation upon Victoria Manley after he was confronted with Victoria's contemporaneous diary entries.   At that point for the first time in six years, Mona Lisa had reason to believe the District would take her seriously and would support her.   Within two months and one week of Ancira's no contest plea-in other words, within two months and one week of the time when the effects of the acts of intimidation ceased, Mona Lisa filed her government claim.   Clearly, this is a “reasonable time” after the delay-inducing actions of the District ceased.

Although the court in John R. v. Oakland Unified School Dist., supra, 48 Cal.3d 438, 256 Cal.Rptr. 766, 769 P.2d 948, does not specifically define the term “reasonable time,” it discusses how the “the time for filing a claim” is “tolled” during the period the delay-inducing effects continue to operate.   The “time for filing a claim” and a late-claim request are set forth in the Tort Claims Act.   As a general rule, an injured plaintiff must file a government claim within six months of the accrual of a cause of action, a late-claim request within one year, and a lawsuit within two years.   That period is tolled during the time the District's actions deter the appropriate filings.   (John R. v. Oakland Unified School District, supra, 48 Cal.3d at p. 445-446, 256 Cal.Rptr. 766, 769 P.2d 948.)

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of-appeal/1462071.html
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I think all of this shows us what we knew - Safechuck's probate claim will get dismissed as well.

During Robson decision judge said equitable estoppel applies to executors actions. So that's gone. Even if judge assumes MJ did anything to stop him from coming forward, he would say it ended when he died (pretty similar to Robson). Given the judge has to approach to this as most favorable way to Safechuck, he can ignore the 2005 statement to his mother. Still similar to Robson he would put the date of when safechuck discovered to when he told his therapist the abuse. I think waiting 8 months to file would cost him. Is there anything else that he can rely on?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Basically, same arguments that WR's motions. Like the judge said, estoppel doctrine is against executor's conduct.

Yeah, I went through the Judge's decision in the Robson case and the arguments, precedents etc. seem basically the same. If Robson was dismissed I think this should too.

The difference is that in this case this is demurrer and Robson's creditor's claim was taken straight to summary judgement by the Estate. So I don't know if the Judge will let it through to summary judgement or not, but at the very least it should be stopped at summary judement, like Robson's case was.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

In Wade's lawsuit against MJ companies, they say company controlled Michael etc, now Safejunk lawsuit says that MJ was a global icon, who exerted an almost godlike authority over the people around him?
Which is it? MJ couldn't exert that godlike authority over his companies, but he was able to do so in Safejunk case:smilerolleyes:


I see that they have copy/pasted their mantra:
"The court is required to accept all of the well pleaded allegations in the complaint as true"

Its like they say "we know this is bs, but you judge have to take it as true."
I don't remember seeing mantra in any other lawsuit except Wade and Safejunk.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

In Wade's lawsuit against MJ companies, they say company controlled Michael etc, now Safejunk lawsuit says that MJ was a global icon, who exerted an almost godlike authority over the people around him?
Which is it? MJ couldn't exert that godlike authority over his companies, but he was able to do so in Safejunk case:smilerolleyes:


I see that they have copy/pasted their mantra:
"The court is required to accept all of the well pleaded allegations in the complaint as true"

Its like they say "we know this is bs, but you judge have to take it as true."
I don't remember seeing mantra in any other lawsuit except Wade and Safejunk.

I don't like their attitude. They don't need to tell the judge what he must or must not do, I'm sure he knows that at this point every claim is an alleged "fact". I thought it was worse when they said it in Wade's opposition because it seemed desperate, like their only goal is to move on to Summary Judgement. I also don't like they ask the court to set a precedent, once again admitting they don't have a case but still want the court to make an extra effort for them even though nothing so far justifies it which is why I think they don't stand a chance with the appeals.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I don't like their attitude. They don't need to tell the judge what he must or must not do, I'm sure he knows that at this point every claim is an alleged "fact". I thought it was worse when they said it in Wade's opposition because it seemed desperate, like their only goal is to move on to Summary Judgement. I also don't like they ask the court to set a precedent, once again admitting they don't have a case but still want the court to make an extra effort for them even though nothing so far justifies it which is why I think they don't stand a chance with the appeals.

yes. they are patronising the judge and here is me hoping the judge calls them out when he eventually dismisses these kangaroo cases.

for safechuck and robson lawyers, the real objective has always been to get the cases to trial so they can smear MJ. They know the media/tabloids (who may be sponsoring these suits) are waiting in the background for that so they can sully MJ reputation. These frivolous cases are essentially extortion tactics. and it's becoming clearer now.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Safechuck is slighting us, much like Ron Zonen slighted Michael Jackson during the 2005 trial. Michael decided to build the amusement park on his property to lure innocent boy's, then condition them to make them believe everything was okay to molest them. Now the fan's are in the wrong because of what Safechuck says, the insinuation of Michael's status. It's obvious what happened back in 1993 is not swaying the general public, but us fan's have put Michael into a category that protects him from ludicrous accusations.

It sounds like Safechuck would like us to believe him over Michael's innocence. Safechuck wants us to be conditioned, as in, Pavlov's dogs...
bark-bark!


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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

A side note, watching the controversy over Donald Trump's comments on immigrants, particularly latinos, I cant help but feel he has the Arvizos in his mind. This guy was almost the single high profile person to call out the Arvizos on national TVs when every media pundit was focusing on the " cancer survivor kid" bullshit. It was a very brave act by Trump and he stood to gain nothing when he did it. I don't believe he was racist when he said that, he was telling the truth like he is doing now.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

This guy was almost the single high profile person to call out the Arvizos on national TVs when every media pundit was focusing on the " cancer survivor kid" bullshit. It was a very brave act by Trump and he stood to gain nothing when he did it.

He said that??? when????
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

A side note, watching the controversy over Donald Trump's comments on immigrants, particularly latinos, I cant help but feel he has the Arvizos in his mind. This guy was almost the single high profile person to call out the Arvizos on national TVs when every media pundit was focusing on the " cancer survivor kid" bullshit. It was a very brave act by Trump and he stood to gain nothing when he did it. I don't believe he was racist when he said that, he was telling the truth like he is doing now.
Well, that would be a nice thought, but I don't think he's thinking about Arvizo and I also don't think he's secretly racist.
Unfortunately American politics has fallen into the abyss since around 2004-maybe even from before when the "Moral Majority" tried to get Clinton impeached.
Now the only people that seem to go vote in the Republican and Democrat primaries are the extreme right wing and the extreme left wing. I don't even consider these people Republicans and Democrats anymore-I just think of them as all extremists.

Trump's speech was a primary speech and he pandered to that very audience-just like all the Republican candidates did back in 2008 and 2012. Then after they get the nomination, they go back to the middle of the road where the rest of the voters are. By then, the damage is done, in my opinion. I was very pro-McCain because he used to cross party lines a lot and I'm more liberal and I liked that-until he started acting up like this-and Romney did it too.
In my state, Texas, the politicians think the only people who vote are wealthy ranchers-and forget about the other 99%.Every single candidate for state office claimed to be more conservative and more religious than the other guys, more pro-gun, more anti-abortion, more against homosexuality, more against illegal immigrants than the last guy. It's become absolutely ridiculous.

Trump just delivered the same kind of speech all the other guys did, but it backfired on him, because he's the most famous to the whole US.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Immigration has become the #1 talking point in Europe now as well and the problem is starting to get out of hand and no one really seems to know what would be the right thing to do between humanity and protecting the interests of Europe. I don't want to derail this thread, but I posted a documentary about it a couple of weeks ago here: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...mentary-series-on-Europe-s-immigration-crisis which shows how dramatic the situation is on Europe's borders (and it's only become worse since). Now, back on topic.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

yes. they are patronising the judge and here is me hoping the judge calls them out when he eventually dismisses these kangaroo cases.

for safechuck and robson lawyers, the real objective has always been to get the cases to trial so they can smear MJ. They know the media/tabloids (who may be sponsoring these suits) are waiting in the background for that so they can sully MJ reputation. These frivolous cases are essentially extortion tactics. and it's becoming clearer now.
Respect-I don't want to derail the thread either and I saw you posted the immigration crisis info and I'll go over to watch. Personally, I think all of this goes down to the economy but I can write about that and Trump there.

It has been questioned here more than once over who might be funding the lawsuits. And also the timing has been questioned. It's led to opinions (including mine) that it was supposed to result in a settlement by the Estate or maybe even the Jacksons. Pay us and well go away for the AEG trial.

But passy just mentioned the tabloids. What if it was the tabloids that was funding this?? Michael was a huge money maker for them thru the years-one of the biggest ever. He still is bc his name is mentioned constantly every day so people will click on articles.

So it's not too far of a stretch to imagine them doing something like this to make a lot of money should it go to trial.
Now I want to know too.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I don't think AEG is behind the case and I don't think the tabloids are funding it. I think some tabloids may have some sort of agreement or a deal with Wade but I don't think they're paying for his legal expanses. I do wonder about some haters and haters websites though.
 
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