[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

[HIStory]

That doctor who wrote a book would fall asleep in Michael's bedroom while they watched movies together, and sometimes Michael would fall asleep too.

Yep, William Van Valin. Here is the part from his book:

In Michael’s room there was a couch with a King sized roll out bed in it. It was always in the rolled out position and it was always turned down like you were in a hotel. It faced the biggest TV I’d ever seen at that time. We would put in a movie, order from the kitchen whatever we were hungry for and watch movies until late at night. If Michael fell asleep while we were watching a movie, I would turn the volume down slowly, unplug it (because if I used the controller it made a loud noise as it turned off ) and quietly leave the room and go home. I remember I did this one night and was tiptoeing to the door when I heard Michael say, “See you tomorrow, Barney.” For whatever reason, it was very difficult for Michael to sleep. So, if he fell asleep I was always careful to let him stay that way. Sometimes he’d ask me to read something to him and I’d find a book and just read it out loud then slip away when it seemed he was asleep.
Through a door, to the left of his TV, was a bathroom and outside of another door was a Jacuzzi that he said he never used. By the bathroom door was a tall green safe that required an electronic code to open it. Other than a lot of papers, what stood out to me when he’d open this safe were some shallow boxes about two feet by one foot in which were stacked small blue velvet jewelers boxes. Each velvet box held a twenty dollar gold piece and he must have had a hundred of them in there. Over the years when we were together on a birthday or some special occasion, Michael would give me one of these coins or give one to one of my children.
On the opposite side of the TV was a walk-in closet under the stairs that lead up to Michael’s bedroom, which I never saw used, as he always slept on the pull out by the television. The bedroom itself was rather plain except for the king sized bed which had a comforter covered with rhinestones. All of them were about a millimeter in diameter and each a few millimeters apart. This comforter was incredibly heavy and not comfortable to lie on but quite beautiful to look at when the light shone on it. This was something Michael had actually ordered for himself and it was made according to his own design.

It were never just children.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

But MJ didn't have access to kids. He intentionally was with kids. Why do you think Zonen asked Brett and Mac whether an adult companion was around?
Why do you think that juror said it didn't make sense to him that they would only watch TV?
Most humans are perverts. They had an oversexualized mind. They hear bed and they think sex. That's the reality and we should not ignore that.



I didn't say you should convince them that he has no interest in sex AT ALL but that he in fact could go without sex for months or even years.
Simply convincing them that MJ was interested in females wouldn't be enough.
Think about the 2005 trial. There was more than enough evidence that MJ liked heterosexual adult sex
and somehow Zonen tried to use even that as proof that if he is in bed with a kid he sure as hell thinks about sex.
He asked would you allow your kid to sleep in a bed with a man who has these magazines where women insert things in themselves?


The jurors did not say I voted not guilty because I saw that he liked women so case closed.

you are not kidding, you really do think this is better than TM defense. Amazing. How I wish you were Michael's lawyer in 2005 even though he was cleared of all charges with the help of brilliant expeirenced lawyer and his team.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

you are not kidding, you really do think this is better than TM defense. Amazing. How I wish you were Michael's lawyer in 2005 even though he was cleared of all charges with the help of brilliant expeirenced lawyer and his team.

And according to the person you quoted a full acquittal wasnot enough. And I love it when peopleput their own issues onto Michael.

 

[aldebran]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

That is quite an extraordinary view of the human race.

That's what it is. And the persecution of MJ pretty much shows it.
Why do you think the media took and run with all those salacious testimonies and totally ignored the cross-examinations?
There is a market for that shit.
You can increase ratings with that shit. Sell papers with that shit.
If people didn't enjoy it it wouldn't have been such a good business to destroy MJ in such a disgusting way.

And the whole "sleeping with boys" nonsense. They hear that and their perverted imagination runs away with them.
They can't even imagine that someone can sleep in a bed with a kid without licking him or something.
Pathetic species.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

That's what it is. And the persecution of MJ pretty much shows it.
Why do you think the media took and run with all those salacious testimonies and totally ignored the cross-examinations?
There is a market for that shit.
You can increase ratings with that shit. Sell papers with that shit.
If people didn't enjoy it it wouldn't have been such a good business to destroy MJ in such a disgusting way.

And the whole "sleeping with boys" nonsense. They hear that and their perverted imagination runs away with them.
They can't even imagine that someone can sleep in a bed with a kid without licking him or something.
Pathetic species.

It would appear that would include you

 

[terrell]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

My wife and I were actually talking about this very issue last night. She's one of those people who believe that MJ was guilty solely because of the sleepovers. No matter how much I try to convince her that the man was innocent, she still goes back to the whole sleepover issue. Regardless of how we may feel, the fact of the matter is, it is not normal for a grown man to sleep with children who aren't related to him. It is very questionable, and then when these same children come out and say "He molested me", that's not farfetched in a lot of people's minds. They're going to put two and two together. They're going to think "there's a lot of smoke here and where there's smoke there's fire". It's not physical evidence but it can be used as circumstantial evidence and this is the very evidence that the prosecution were hoping to use to convict Jackson. This is why MJ's attorneys advised him to stop defending the sleepovers because it was not helping their case at all.

To me, your wife has a dirty mind. When people hear "sleep over", they think MJ had children jumping in and out of his room 24/7. Many people have kids to sleep over to their homes but because MJ is famous and had a kid like spirit, people judge him harash and this left him open to be fasley accused.. If your wife think someone is guilty solely on sleepover, then some can accuse her of things based what she do. Your wife reminds me of the kind of people who think if a woman dress a certain way, she must be asking for it or she would not dress that way or thinks a woman can not be friends wih a man without sleeping with him. In the case of MJ, there is MONEY to be made off of lying on him. So I understand the "circumstance" way that you are speaking on; however, folks like your wife also have to look at these folks who are accusing and their motives, if not, then she is just bias and she needs to be careful in judging anyone the way she judge because it can come back on her in her life in some way and I am sure she will want someone to listen to her regardless to the "perception" she give to the situation. Yes, sometimes, "where there is smoke there is fire"; HOWEVER, It can also be DRY ICE and not fire. A person wearing a hoody can be robbing a store and running away from the scene to the eye of a bystander; HOWEVER, the truth is the person in the hoody is just cold and running to get home from the store. You see my point about judging on PRECEPTION only. People are being shot and killed based on"preception" of people and NOT on facts and that is dangerous. Men are walking out of prisons for being falsely accused because of your wife's kind of thinking.

 

[aldebran]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

you are not kidding, you really do think this is better than TM defense. Amazing. How I wish you were Michael's lawyer in 2005 even though he was cleared of all charges with the help of brilliant expeirenced lawyer and his team.

In 2005 TM mostly had to focus on the Arvizos and show that they were liars.
Because the burden of proof was beyond a reasonable doubt the issue of whom MJ slept with and why and how that related to his sex life was not the deciding factor.

But even there there were jurors who simply couldn't look past the whole "sleeping with boys" issue and 365 days with Brett Barnes. He even ignored Brett's testimony and believed that he knew better than Brett did! I remember the interview with the jury on MSNBC and how the very first question the media asked , particularly those who had kids : what did you think about Michael Jackson sleeping with young boys?
One juror, a woman, answered: which mother allows that to happen?



If there is a civil trial where you don't need a unanimous verdict and the burden of proof is low you can pretty much lose
simply because of the one issue.

The general public usually brings up three things to "prove" that MJ was guilty:
- he slept with little boys
- he settled
- Chandler accurately described his genitalia

None of these three is true but they are persistent myths.

You can be sure that these things will be on the jurors mind if this goes to trial. They need to be addressed.

 

[terrell]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I understand sleep overs with unrelated people are socially unacceptable in general but anyone who thinks sexual endeavors are the only reason a child sleeps in your bed is the true sicko. Michael didn't commit any crime by that mere act.

I agree. I bet you the folks who want say MJ is guilty are the same people who are capable of being chid molesters themselves.

 

[aldebran]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It would appear that would include you

No it doesn't appear that way at all.
I'm talking about the reality outside of the fan community.
And you have you head in the sand.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Not only nobody here can prove Michael had "low sexual drive", "low libido" nor that he "could go years without sex" or "never had sex outside of marriages" for any reason, this argument is very poor and not really helpful in anyway.

We all know about sexual abuse are sadly common in religious institutions that are also known for their celibacy lifestyle (whether it's until marriages or never) read - Catholic Church sexual abuse cases

These are people who could allegedly go years without sex yet abused children.

Proving someone is asexual with adults doesn't neccesarily mean he is not sexual with children.

Pedophiles can be exclusivley attracted to children, meaning it's possible they're not attracted to adults, which may be seem as "low sexual drive", simply because they're not attracted to adult women - or men.

Are pedophiles only attracted to children?

Some pedophiles may be as attracted to adults as they are to children, but it's hard to know how common that is. That's because most pedophilia research is based on people who were arrested for sexual offenses against children, and they may tend to exaggerate their sexual interest in adults to seem more "normal," Blanchard says.

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/features/explaining-pedophilia

Claiming MJ was asexual could not help in court (not that I think he was, not that I think it changes something if he was). The only thing that works here and the only fact that matters is that Michael had no sexual interest in children. NOT low sexual interest in general. It's irrelevant because there's no one way to go.] Some pedophiles get married and have children, some pedophiles are loners. Now we can give it a rest and move on from this nonsense?

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Some of you are really delusional. No male adult I have even known shared his bed with strange kids. Stop with this nonsense that people are stupid for saying that was wrong. MJ was not a molester , it does not mean he was not weird.

 

[terrell]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

That is quite an extraordinary view of the human race. It might be true of adolescent males aged maybe 15-19, but I am certain that it is not the view of 'the human race'. If you look at the sales figures of sex-oriented magazines like 'Nuts', 'Zoo' etc, they had a brief moment in the sunlight, and after the novelty wore off, they are now declining and closing. People are interested in 'gossip' hence the widespread availability of celebrity magazines. it is more about wanting to know that celebs are not 'more beautiful', cleverer' or happier than 'ordinary' people, hence eg interest in celeb weight loss and plastic surgery.

exactly.

 

[Justthefacts]

No it doesn't appear that way at all.
I'm talking about the reality outside of the fan community.
And you have you head in the sand.

<o></o>
No my head is attached to my neck like it has been foryears. As pointed out already anyone whothinks that way when a child sleeps in a bad with an adult has a dirty mind andperverted thoughts, and I don&#8217;t think anyone on this board gives one crap about what a person like that thinks. Not one member of the fan community was the jury when Michael was acquitted so your reality is not based on reality but your own weird way of seeing Michael <o></o>

 

[terrell]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

No it doesn't appear that way at all.
I'm talking about the reality outside of the fan community.
And you have you head in the sand.

Maybe but I think MOST people can see BS when it is in court as well just like I think we talk about this case more than the "outside". I look at how MJ was celebrated, how people moarned his death, his record sales were great, he surpass Elvis as the most money making celeb,etc. THAT is telling to me how MOST people think of MJ. With all the nonsense that have been said about MJ before and after his death, MJ is still loved and doing great. A MIDDLE school just even celebrated MJ last month. enuf said. Nobody overall care about this nonsense but us.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So worried about children in someone's bed in the meantimekids are being molested in cars, closets, bathrooms. Anyway what was thread about again?

 

[barbee0715]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The general public usually brings up three things to "prove" that MJ was guilty:
- he slept with little boys
- he settled
- Chandler accurately described his genitalia

None of these three is true but they are persistent myths.

You can be sure that these things will be on the jurors mind if this goes to trial. They need to be addressed.

I find your whole "defense" theory ridiculous and absurd, but no, these do not need to be addressed.
You are putting the cart before the horse.
What needs to be addressed is the statue of limitations shutting these cases down once and for all.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

One question, when the judge throws the cases out, could the estate demand the accusers pay the estate bills?

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Some of you are really delusional. No male adult I have even known shared his bed with strange kids. Stop with this nonsense that people are stupid for saying that was wrong. MJ was not a molester , it does not mean he was not weird.

That's your own experience though. In certain cultures, countries it's not considered weird. Of course, MJ was American, but apparently he too grew up with this thing being normal.

 

[terrell]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

So worried about children in someone's bed in the meantimekids are being molested in cars, closets, bathrooms. Anyway what was thread about again?

Most children are NOT molested in the molester' bedrooms and a REAL molester is not going to give any clue he is molesting by saying "it is ok to have kids in my room".

 

[terrell]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

One question, when the judge throws the cases out, could the estate demand the accusers pay the estate bills?

Maybe but I doubt it. In our system, ANYONE can bring a lawsuit and I think many folks in the public are tired of it.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Maybe but I doubt it. In our system, ANYONE can bring a lawsuit and I think many folks in the public are tired of it.

True, but AEG is rightfully going after Kathrine to foot the bill. Why would not the estate ?

The estate cant sue back for defamation but why not recoup what they spend on this case? Wade and Safe**** lawyers are working on contingency fee basis , so they are not really worried about legal fees but imagine their misery when they are asked to pay for MJ's defense.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^ I think the lawyers usually ask for it anyway and it's part of the verdict, not a seperate lawsuit. They could go after them for defamation though, I wonder if it's possible to win such case.

 

[marc_vivien]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

RadarOnline has a new aarticla about Zonen's declaration, just saying that he received a subpoena from WR's lawyers and transmitted
testimonies (B. FRANCIA, M. QUINDOY & C. MICHAELES).

Intesresting part :
"A final status conference is scheduled for April 15, with a trial scheduled to last 15 days to determine if Robson can proceed with his claim against the estate."

 

[terrell]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

RadarOnline has a new aarticla about Zonen's declaration, just saying that he received a subpoena from WR's lawyers and transmitted
testimonies (B. FRANCIA, M. QUINDOY & C. MICHAELES).

Intesresting part :
"A final status conference is scheduled for April 15, with a trial scheduled to last 15 days to determine if Robson can proceed with his claim against the estate."

And what does Wade lawyers expect to have in that declaration that was not ALREADY shown in COURT and public when that trial was going on along with the FACT Wade testied on MJ's behalf?

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Looks like it's not about their late filing. What's gonna happen on April 15th?

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

If we use that same "logic and reasoning" with other people who have had sleep overs with unrelated children, then Oprah is a sick, twisted individual for having sleep overs with the girls from her school. But how convenient she was telling how fun and wonderful was and no one chastised her or considered her a criminal. Why just Michael? :angry:

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

RadarOnline has a new aarticla about Zonen's declaration, just saying that he received a subpoena from WR's lawyers and transmitted
testimonies (B. FRANCIA, M. QUINDOY & C. MICHAELES).

Intesresting part :
"A final status conference is scheduled for April 15, with a trial scheduled to last 15 days to determine if Robson can proceed with his claim against the estate."

Marc Q did not testify in fact he died before the trail andC Michael's was never called. And what does any of this has to do with the fact he filed too late? I call BS

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

RadarOnline has a new aarticla about Zonen's declaration, just saying that he received a subpoena from WR's lawyers and transmitted
testimonies (B. FRANCIA, M. QUINDOY & C. MICHAELES).

Intesresting part :
"A final status conference is scheduled for April 15, with a trial scheduled to last 15 days to determine if Robson can proceed with his claim against the estate."

All of these people received tabloid money (Francia and Michaels from Hard Copy) when they came up with their claims. Interestingly Charli Michaels was never called to testify in 2005. Quindoy neither but that was supposedly because he died.

"A final status conference is scheduled for April 15, with a trial scheduled to last 15 days to determine if Robson can proceed with his claim against the estate."

I do not understand this. What trial?

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Marc Q did not testify in fact he died before the trail andC Michael's was never called. And what does any of this has to do with the fact he filed too late? I call BS

They're going ahead of themselves. Good luck using Blanca Francia, who was already proven a liar before. I wonder why they're not asking for Gavin's too.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

All of these people received tabloid money (Francia and Michaels from Hard Copy) when they came up with their claims. Interestingly Charli Michaels was never called to testify in 2005. Quindoy neither but that was supposedly because he died.



I do not understand this. What trial?

I can understand a hearing but why a trial? And to last 15 days?