[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

And what does any of this has to do with the fact he filed too late? I call BS

Exactly. I think they are just shooting in every direction. This has nothing to do with whether he filed within statutes of limitations or not.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

They're going ahead of themselves. Good luck using Blanca Francia, who was already proven a liar before. I wonder why they're not asking for Gavin's too.



The estate says it should not be accepted based on to much time has passed. What does anything Francia said have to do with the fact that you filed so late? Not a damn thing like the estate said
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I do not understand this. What trial?

Maybe the hearing that was supposed to be happening today got delayed to the 15th - the one TMZ asked to be in and Ivy said it could be an improtant day. Does that make sense?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

a 15 days trial to decide whether there could be a trial ? What the hell is this ?!
 
InvincibleTal;4085246 said:
They're going ahead of themselves. Good luck using Blanca Francia, who was already proven a liar before. I wonder why they're not asking for Gavin's too.

They are asking for these people because they made claims about Robson/Safechuck. Francia the well known shower story and Charli Michael's claimed this acc. to a prosecution motion (yet, they never called her to testify so I guess there must have been some problems with her):

wl8y8m.jpg


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You also should know this about Charlie Michaels. From Lisa Campbell's book The King of Pop's Darkest Hour:

Aside from the talk of the Jackson family reunion special, there was still more scandalous dirt to deliver, and Hard Copy, as always, was happy to dish it out. In another "exclusive" interview with yet another former security guard, which was stretched out to last for three shows, Diane Dimond talked with Charli Michaels, a former female security guard who worked at Neverland Valley. In the interview the former guard, who filed court documents in connection with the lawsuit filed by the other five former guards suing Michael, claimed she saw Michael touch the crotch of a young boy in a dance studio. She also claimed to have seen another boy in tears because Michael "had touched him funny." She went on to describe all of the "weird" or "questionable" circumstances she saw while working at the ranch. At the end of one part of the interview, Dimond added, "It must be said here that the two boys mentioned in this story have talked to police, they deny abuse occurred." This sentence, this very significant sentence which casts huge doubt on the guard's claims, took eight seconds for Dimond to say. Nice piece of balanced, objective reporting. This one part of the three part interview lasted eight minutes, the total interview lasted approximately twenty four minutes, while eight seconds was devoted to presenting the opposing side of the story.
The young boy Michaels said she saw Michael Jackson touch was Wade Robson. At the outbreak of the story of the allegations against Michael, ten year old Robson voluntarily told a Los Angeles TV station that he was friends with Michael and had spent time with him, but there was never any improper behavior by Michael, ever.
One of the claims the guard made was that the persona Michael Jackson portrays to the public is not the real Michael Jackson. She continued, saying that she could count the number of parties Michael hosted for children during her time at Neverland on one hand. Assuming she can count, and has the usual number of fingers, her statement is completely false. There have been numerous occasions on which Michael has invited groups of children to his ranch from various charities and organizations. Some of those have been mentioned here, many others are included in Michael Jackson: The King of Pop, published in 1993. Acknowledgement of these invitations have been made by the children who have visited the ranch, and by the many organizations which have recognized Michael's efforts in helping to bring happiness to children. Over the past several years Michael Jackson has worked with The Los Angeles YMCA, the Dream Street Program, the Make A Wish Foundation, the Boy Scouts of America, Big Brothers and Big Sisters, and many other organizations for children.

By the way, Wade's own testimony from 2005:

15 Q. Were there periods of time when you were at

16 Neverland and working with Mr. Jackson on dance

17 routines?

18 A. No. I mean, we would mess around and dance

19 a little bit in the studio every now and then, yes.

20 Q. Was there ever an occasion where you were on

21 the dance floor with Mr. Jackson and he was showing

22 you a routine and he grabbed your crotch in a manner

23 similar to how he would grab his own crotch while

24 doing those performances?

25 A. No, that’s not true.

26 Q. You have no recollection of that?

27 A. No.

28 Q. That didn’t happen? 9112



1 A. No.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The estate says it should not be accepted based on to much time has passed. What does anything Francia said have to do with the fact that you filed so late? Not a damn thing like the estate said

Nothing Francia says can help Wade's case, her claims are more than 20 years old, she got paid to say what she said, she was disputed in 2005. and it got nothing to do with the late filing. That's why I think they're going ahead of themselves.
 
InvincibleTal;4085253 said:
Nothing Francia says can help Wade's case, her claims are more than 20 years old, she got paid to say what she said, she was disputed in 2005. and it got nothing to do with the late filing. That's why I think they're going ahead of themselves.


Correct which is why I&#8217;m not buying this Radar Onlinestory. Because this is about if your ccclaim can continue not about what someone said they saw. How does it look when the estate is using lawabout why your claim should not go forward and you&#8217;re up there talking aboutwhat someone said they saw? I think eventhe judge will ask and has asked what does this have to do with what we thishearing is for? And plus how are yougoing to use testimonies from two people who did not testify?<o:p></o:p>
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The point of a summary judgement is exactly to not to have to hold a trial. So a trial to decide about summary judgement does not make much sense to me.

In American legal practice summary judgment can be awarded by the court before trial, effectively holding that no trial will be necessary. Issuance of summary judgment can be based only upon the court's finding that:


  1. there are no disputes of "material" fact requiring a trial to resolve, and
  2. in applying the law to the undisputed facts, one party is clearly entitled to judgment.
A party seeking summary judgment (or making any other motion) is called the "moving party". A "material fact" is one which, depending upon what the factfinder believes "really happened," could lead to judgment in favor of one party, rather than the other.

From a tactical perspective, there are two basic types of summary-judgment motions. One requires a full evidentiary presentation, and the other requires only a more limited, targeted one.
First, a plaintiff may seek summary judgment on any cause of action, and similarly, a defendant may seek summary judgment in its favor on any affirmative defense. But in either case, the moving party must produce evidence in support of each and every essential element of the claim or defense (as it would have to do at trial). To be successful, this type of summary-judgment motion must be drafted as a written preview of a party's entire case-in-chief (that it would put before the finder of fact at trial) because all parts of an entire claim or defense are at issue.
Second, a different and very common tactic is where a defendant seeks summary judgment on a plaintiff's cause of action. The key difference is that in this latter situation, the defendant need only attack one essential element of the plaintiff's claim. A finding that the plaintiff cannot prove one essential element of its claim necessarily renders all other elements immaterial and results in summary judgment for the defendant. So these motions tend to be precisely targeted to the weakest points of the plaintiff's case. It is also possible for a plaintiff to seek summary judgment on a defendant's affirmative defense, but those types of motions are very rare.
A party seeking summary judgment may refer to any evidence that would be admissible at trial, such as depositions (or deposition excerpts), party admissions, affidavits in support from witnesses, documents received during discovery (such as contracts, emails, letters, and certified government documents). The evidences should be accompanied by a declaration from the moving party that all copies of the documents are true and correct, including deposition excerpts. Each party may present to the court its view of applicable law by submitting a legal memorandum supporting, or opposing, the motion. The opposing party may also file its own summary-judgment motion (called a "cross-motion"), if deadline still allows. The court may allow for oral argument of the lawyers, generally where the judge wishes to question the lawyers on issues in the case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summary_judgment#United_States
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

In my opinion RadarOnline does not know what they are talking about once again. When you enter the probate court cases in the court system this is the two latest record:

04/15/2016 at 08:32 am in department 51 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Final Status Conference

05/03/2016 at 08:32 am in department 51 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Jury Trial(15 DAY ESTIMATE)

Radar simply assumes this is related to the Robson case, but it isn't IMO. It's not even 2015, but 2016 (these dates have been there for a while and I think they have to do with the Thome case, but Ivy may have more info on that).
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

In my opinion RadarOnline does not know what they are talking about once again. When you enter the probate court cases in the court system this is the two latest record:



Radar simply assumes this is related to the Robson case, but it isn't IMO. It's not even 2015, but 2016 (these dates have been there for a while and I think they have to do with the Thome case, but Ivy may have more info on that).

That's a bit of a beginner mistake... So much for being proffesional. No surprise there.
 
Justthefacts;4085254 said:
Correct which is why I&#8217;m not buying this Radar Onlinestory. Because this is about if your ccclaim can continue not about what someone said they saw. How does it look when the estate is using lawabout why your claim should not go forward and you&#8217;re up there talking aboutwhat someone said they saw? I think eventhe judge will ask and has asked what does this have to do with what we thishearing is for? And plus how are yougoing to use testimonies from two people who did not testify?<o:p></o:p>

While RO is wrong on this final status conference/trial thing (those are related to another case) it is true that Robson asked for these testimonies. But it does not have anything to do with an argument re. statutes of limitations. Whatever these people claimed it will not put Robson within statutes of limitations.

The Estate already argued when they opposed Robson's discovery that they do not see the point because at the moment this is about statutes of limitations, nothing else. But Robson argued how the discovery is all important to him. Eg. (although this one is specifically about the search, not testimony, but I think they probably had similar arguments for the testimonies):

21owy6d.jpg


To me all this seems just like a red herring. I can't see how any if this would put them within statutes if they are otherwise not.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

While RO is wrong on this final status conference/trial thing (those are related to another case) it is true that Robson asked for these testimonies. But it does not have anything to do with an argument re. statutes of limitations. Whatever these people claimed it will not put Robson within statutes of limitations.

The Estate already argued when they opposed Robson's discovery that they do not see the point because at the moment this is about statutes of limitations, nothing else. But Robson argued how the discovery is all important to him. Eg. (although this one is specifically about the search, not testimony, but I think they probably had similar arguments for the testimonies):

21owy6d.jpg


To me all this seems just like a red herring. I can't see how any if this would put them within statutes if they are otherwise not.[/QUOTE]


Didn't the judge kind of say that?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Didn't the judge kind of say that?

At the October 1 hearing he said he could not see the point of dragging the previous allegations into it, but Marzano insisted on dragging them into it.

I think the Judge has given them discovery because they argued that they would "undoubtedly" discover something in support of their statutes of limitations/estoppel argument. But I don't think anything came out of it (at least not based on the Companies demurrer) - other than perhaps finding a little quote somewhere, in some deposition or something, about what Norma Staikos supposedly said. And I cannot see how anything Francia, Quindoy or Michaels said can be used for estoppel/statutes argument either.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Can someone just sum up where they are on this case right now? There are hundreds of pages and intricate details and I can't fumble through it all :) Cheers.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Can someone just sum up where they are on this case right now? There are hundreds of pages and intricate details and I can't fumble through it all :) Cheers.

Thanks to Ivy (http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...tate/page665?p=4083180&viewfull=1#post4083180)

Safechuck civil case

No action at all. Civil case is waiting for probate outcome.

Safechuck probate case
Safechuck filed late probate claim
Estate filed demurrer
Demurrer hearing was on December 16, 2014
December 30, 2014 Judge sustained the demurrer with leave to amend
March 18, 2015 Safechuck filed the second amended complaint
Now we are waiting for Estate to file their second demurrer
Next hearing is set for July 21 2015

Robson Probate Case
Robson filed his late probate claim
Estate went for a summary judgment
There was a hearing set for November but it doesn't look like it happened
Robson lawyers were talking about asking an extension to go over the discovery
It seems like the summary judgment motions are still ongoin

Robson civil case

Robson filed his civil complaint
Estate filed a demurrer
October 1, 2014 Judge sustained the demurrer with leave to amend
December 16, 2014 Robson filed his amended complaint
March 10 2015 Estate filed second demurrer
Next hearing is June 30 2015


Since then: acc. to latest reports there was a summary judgement hearing scheduled for this week in the Robson Probate Case, but it got delayed until May.
 
Passy001, can you remind me what previous complaints Taj had?

Aldebran, you are continuing to confuse my statement. I never said all civil trial strategies are equal so, there is no need for the AEG comparisons. The Chandler civil trial strategy was Michael had the opportunity to commit such acts. Michael would not be successful in the civil trial because he had countless opportunities.

You have made several posts regarding Michael’s behavior in your view. You posted he was on tour for a year or more without a female companion and children in tow. You have attempted to use Michael’s religion and deeming him asexual to explain his travel companions. You incorrectly posted that Michael did not have access to children when he did. Do you see how that could be equated conveniently to opportunity in a civil trial?

Soundmind;4085230 said:
Wade and Safe**** lawyers are working on contingency fee basis , so they are not really worried about legal fees but imagine their misery when they are asked to pay for MJ's defense.

Any proof their services are contingency-based?

There is no logical reason for these claims to be approved; therefore, there should be no need for a trial that results in a victory for the Estate allowing them to recoup their legal fees. If these claims are correctly dismissed, the Estate will not be able to recoup legal fees spent thus far on this doomed venture.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

One question, when the judge throws the cases out, could the estate demand the accusers pay the estate bills?

Yes. When MAW's complaint was dismissed at demurrer he was ordered to pay legal costs. However only certain legal costs can be recouped.

RadarOnline has a new aarticla about Zonen's declaration, just saying that he received a subpoena from WR's lawyers and transmitted
testimonies (B. FRANCIA, M. QUINDOY & C. MICHAELES).

We knew Robson had discovery request and judge granted the request. This also debunks the 20 victims claim by Stacy Brown.

In my opinion RadarOnline does not know what they are talking about once again. When you enter the probate court cases in the court system this is the two latest record:
Radar simply assumes this is related to the Robson case, but it isn't IMO. It's not even 2015, but 2016 (these dates have been there for a while and I think they have to do with the Thome case, but Ivy may have more info on that).

those are definitely Tohme related, I have absolute proof

2ykj0av.jpg
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

InvincibleTal said:
The only thing that works here and the only fact that matters is that Michael had no sexual interest in children. NOT low sexual interest in general. It's irrelevant because there's no one way to go.]

Don't you understand that if a man who was accused of molestation and spent hundreds of days with a kid and there is no adult companion around during the same period of time
the average Joe will automatically assume that he is having sex with the kid regardless whether he has tons of hetero adult magazines and nude pictures on women.

TM did make that argument during the closing argument, do you think a guy who has that stuff is interested in boys? And obviously it didn't sway 3 jurors who only aquitted MJ because the other 9 reminded them who full of shit the Arvizos were.

We are not talking about hypothetical situations but MJ being with Jimmy and Brett during those tours without anyone testifying that they saw an adult companion with him.
If the jurors believe that MJ had a normal sex drive and could not possibly spend months without sex they will believe he molested those boys because they would ask if not those boys then who?

Remember what Pellicano told Orth when he was asked about MJ sleeping with boys: if he is not interested in sex one way or the other then no harm could be done.
There is a reason why Zonen fought against the idea that MJ was asexual. He knew if MJ was perceived as such the whole case against him won't make sense.

As for the priests no they are not asexual and not celibate they were having sex with kids for years and years. Being in the church was just a cover just like
for Sandusky being a coach was a cover. Pedos often look for "jobs" which will give them easy access to kids. Those priests didn't became priests because of religion but because they were pedos who wanted easy access to kids.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Dude move on, your defense got holes and it doesn't fit MJ. Nice try now get over it.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Not one member of the fan community was the jury when Michael was acquitted so your reality is not based on reality but your own weird way of seeing Michael [/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]


We are not talking about a criminal trial! The burden of proof is lower for a civil trial. Get it?
so the fact that MJ was aquitted in 2005 does not mean that he would not be found liable in a civil trial if you can't convince the jurors that sleeping in the same bed
was not sexual in MJ's world.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Don't you understand that if a man who was accused of molestation and spent hundreds of days with a kid and there is no adult companion around during the same period of time
the average Joe will automatically assume that he is having sex with the kid regardless whether he has tons of hetero adult magazines and nude pictures on women.

You are missing the word ' falsely' from your first sentence....If someone is falsely accused of anything, from shoplifting to murder, that should not affect their expectation of fair treatment for the rest of their lives. Also your definition of the 'Average Joe' does great discredit to the true nature of 'Average Joe's' as most of the rest of the world knows them. 'Average Joe's' do not have the uncritical minds of tabloid journalists or the clouded minds of sex obsessed juveniles.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Dude move on, your defense got holes and it doesn't fit MJ. Nice try now get over it.

You continue to ignore what happened in 2005 and how that would be lethal during a civil trial but whatever. Enjoy your delusion.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

If the jurors believe that MJ had a normal sex drive and could not possibly spend months without sex they will believe he molested those boys because they would ask if not those boys then who?

M-A-S-T-U-R-B-A-T-I-O-N.

Do you really think people with normal sexual interest turn into molesters of young boys just because there is no adult partner around? Pedophilia does not work like that.

Michael was likely not asexual, so to say to a jury that he was would probably be a lie.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

You continue to ignore what happened in 2005 and how that would be lethal during a civil trial but whatever. Enjoy your delusion.

You continue to ignore the fact Michael was acquitted in 2005. You delude yourself to think your messed up "defense" line doesn't even fit MJ and could actually put him in jail because it's a very weak one and think it's better than what TM had.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Maybe but I think MOST people can see BS when it is in court as well just like I think we talk about this case more than the "outside". I look at how MJ was celebrated, how people moarned his death, his record sales were great, he surpass Elvis as the most money making celeb,etc. THAT is telling to me how MOST people think of MJ.


That in fact says NOTHING about how MOST people and especially MOST AMERICANS think of MJ TODAY.
And the jurors would be Americans who no doubt would have their prejudice about MJ sleeping with kids.
Yes Robson's claim is crazy every rational person can see it but when I saw a juror whose biggest problem with the Arvizo case
was that Janet snapped her finger and another who completely ignored Brett Barnes's, his sister and his mother's testimony and decided that he was
probably molested because it simply didn't make sense to him that MJ would sleep in a bed with him for 365 days and do nothing just watch TV
I knew that many Americans are still idiots and should not be anywhere near a courtroom.

A civil trial would not require a unanimous verdict and with a lower burden of proof such prejudice could be fatal.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

M-A-S-T-U-R-B-A-T-I-O-N.

Do you really think people with normal sexual interest turn into molesters of young boys just because there is no adult partner around? Pedophilia does not work like that.

Michael was likely not asexual, so to say to a jury that he was would probably be a lie.

Try to make that argument and the next thing the jurors will think sure he mastrubated with the boy!
Seriously? You don't see the obvious?

People don't think that someone who has another person in his bed for months will satisfy his urges by mastrubating alone. That argument would not fly.
Not that it's not possible of course it is.
It just not something Joe Q will accept.
Which is why Zonen made those points and was so eager to dispel the notion that MJ was asexual.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Try to make that argument and the next thing the jurors will think sure he mastrubated with the boy!
Seriously? You don't see the obvious?

People don't think that someone who has another person in his bed for months will satisfy his urges by mastrubating alone. That argument would not fly.

Michael did NOT spend continuous months with these boys, damn.

You cannot build a defense on an assumption (MJ being asexual) that might not even be true. THAT is what does not fly!
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

aldebran please explain how are you going to prove in court a person doesn't mastrabute.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

You continue to ignore the fact Michael was acquitted in 2005.



I don't. But it's irrelevant. Robson would not have a criminal trial but a civil trial. Understand the difference?
What worked in 2005 would not be enough for a civil trial.

And you cannot possibly know whether it fits MJ or not. Based on all available evidence it's reasonable to conclude that he wasn't that much interested in sex with another person.
You have said nothing that would show othewise. Speculation about prostitutes, maids and what not if less convincing that his own words and the fact that
no woman other than Lisa Marie ever claimed to have sex with him.

Well unless you count the Billie Jeans and Theresa Gonsalves.
 
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