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[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

respect77 said:
Clemente read his textbooks in school and is trying hard to find a category to fit MJ into but he fails. He called MJ a "preferential child molester" in one of his posts. That's a textbook expression. According to such textbooks there are two types of molesters. One is the situational molester:



I think even most of his haters realize that MJ was not an aggressive person so it would be harder to make the world believe in this version.

The other is the preferential molester:



http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/pedophiles/2.html

As you can see this does not fit either, because preferential molesters are the type of molesters who have many, often several hundres of victims. I guess this is why Clemente in his posts sneakily tries to boost the number of MJ's supposed victims. He always says how "MJ fell in love with dozens of boys". Even with Wade and James the number of his alleged victims would be too small for a so called preferential child molester and that's why the likes of Clemente have to cling on claiming more victims than there are accusers. That is why haters are so desperate in trying to convince people like Brett Barnes or Corey Feldman to turn on MJ. They love to base their whole case on armchair psychology but they surely realize that for MJ to really fit into the "preferential child molester" profile he should have a lot more alleged victims, at least dozens if not hundreds.

I guess Clemente would emphasize the parts about buying gifts as what makes MJ fit the profile, but picking out small elements like that while ignoring the rest is ridiculous. If buying gifts and being generous is alone considered as a proof of child molestation than this world is doomed. MJ was generous with everyone - not only children, but his adult friends as well. He gave gifts to everyone all the time. Katherine said once that he was like that from an early childhood - always giving to others. And BTW people like Lousie Palanker gave Gavin more than MJ - so is she a preferential child molester as well?

What Clemente does is the opposite of what he should be doing as an expert if he was a good and unbiased one. He takes a profile where he sees at least some minor element as "fitting" (eg. buying gifts) and does not care if the rest doesn't fit at all, but rather he will try to twist MJ's image so that he could make him "fit". He's throwing around false information with no evidence at all, such as "MJ fell in love with dozens of boys". Absolutely unprofessional! Those of his followers who do not know much about these cases and are easily impressed by Clemente's credentials may buy into such tactics out of ignorance about the cases, but people who know the cases will not.

It's also funny when he says that he's been convinced because the grooming and the victimization process have been so similar in the 1993 and 2003 cases. In fact none of these 5 cases against MJ are similar. Yes, they take some headline stuff like wine, porn etc. to try to make it seem like earlier allegations, but when you dig deeper then you will see that this would be an absolutely patternless "molester". One kid says he started to molest him at 13-14, the other says that's when he lost interest. One kid claims mild acts, the other claims anal rape. One kid claims a lengthy "grooming" process, the other claims he's been molested on the first night. Etc. etc. So when an expert bases his expert opinion on claims which are not even true and even deliberately twists info for his agenda then that of course heavily compromises his credibility.
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I agree with you completely. Clemente's points are all over the place, just like the actual claims. Sneddon and the likes of him were\are all over the place. It looks like nobody gave the psycology of things a thought. They give him the "pedophile" title but never go into essential details. What kind of pedophile? Who are his victims? preteens or teens? How come he doesn't have hundreds of victims considering he had access to thousands of children? What's his modus operandi? I think a pedophilia expert could have been disastrous for the prosecution.

I think Clemente throws the "preferential" term a lot also because to laymen it sounds like a person who would wait for "the one" for years when it's quite the contrary - they have just as many victims as the situational offenders, if not more.

Now what I find alarming is how, by the look of it, Clemente doesn't realize profiling is a tool and not a solid proof. He's doing to worst thing a profiler can do, which is to take a person and make him fit the profile, leaving the essential things that don't fit out of the story so the profile would work. And this is a guy who works for the FBI.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

respect77 said:
Older kids are perfectly capable of understanding motives to lie. Like when Pellicano asked Jordan and he said "my father only wants money" - he perfectly understood that if he made that lie then his family and he would get a lot of money. Also there was a manipulation on the parents' part in both cases. And Gavin and his family were seasoned grifters, so what makes anyone think they would not lie?
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I think about it a lot. Like what makes people believe those shady characters over Michael Jackson?

For starters it has to be his image - I know. But I also feel like most people in the media and general public who think Michael is guilty completely ignore the other side of the lawsuit - the accusers. In most cases you would see some sort of empathy to the victims but not in Michael's case. People hardly cared who the "victims" are and what's their story. It was more anti-Michael Jackson than Pro-anyone. I think the media conveniently kept the public in the dark about the faults of the Arvizos, the Chandlers, and even Tom Sneddon's, because then people will have to question the whole thing. Another ignorant by choice case.

With Wade it's slightly different - it's the first time I see an "alleged victim" stirring so much controversy in the media. First time the motives are questioned. It could be his timing or the fact that he's famous, but as an accuser or a "victim" his character is nothing worse than Gavin's, I would say in some aspect the general public would find Wade's character more appealing than Gavin's.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Let's be clear, Linda Stasi likes to take credit for breaking the Chandler story. She was in it up to her elbows even said before the Chandler story broke that Evan called her to complain about Michael not about his son but about Michael and June. She's been a hater for years and a Chandler supporter. And IMO a racist. Don't even let this typical trash coming from trash
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^My local tabloid is at it again...nothing new.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It who you know in power and Michael did not have it like that he was famous he had money but that circle he was not in.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

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"not relevant"
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I have a question why post it? Really what does any of that have to do with Roberson? Just asking
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Snow White luvs Peter Pan said:
Was this guy serious? This jerk shouldn't be allowed to testify in any child molestation case or even practicing his profession if he's gonna let his own experiences as an alleged abuse victim dictates his modus operandi and conclusions, he showed with his cocky arrogant attitude he doesn't give a damn about educating himself by actually knowing the cases, speculating doesn't make him automatically right neither having a so called expertise.
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Well, if he keeps saying things like this --


The court case is a show for the jury or judge. It is not always the full story and it certainly wasn't in MJ's case. ?
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-- which evince a contempt for the legal process, he's not going to have to worry about anyone wanting him to testify as an expert witness.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I bet if Michael had been convicted, this guy wouldn't be saying that the court case only told a fraction of the story. So just because Michael wasn't convicted, the justice system didn't do its job? Please. If witnesses have obvious credibility problems that come out at any trial, something is wrong, in my opinion. And I believe that Wade is counting on people who think like this guy to win his trash case also.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I know this is probably annoying, but I never paid attention to this slander when I first heard about it, and now that it seems to be the most posted in thread, could someone give me a quick synopsis of what's happened up to now? I tried to read back in this thread, but there are 602 pages of names from all over the place, and I am 150% lost lost lost.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

TinnyandOdd said:
I know this is probably annoying, but I never paid attention to this slander when I first heard about it, and now that it seems to be the most posted in thread, could someone give me a quick synopsis of what's happened up to now? I tried to read back in this thread, but there are 602 pages of names from all over the place, and I am 150% lost lost lost.
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From what I can recall off the top of my head:
- Wade Robson filed a late creditor's claim AND a civil lawsuit against the MJ Estate in May 2013 claiming Michael sexually abused him.
- Initial reports claimed repressed memories, but then he appeared on the Today Show and said that he was "unable to understand" that he was abused. He claimed Michael had abused him over a period of seven years, the first instance occurring when he stayed the night at Neverland for the first time, and that Michael coached him for years on keeping it all a secret. He also implied that people that worked for Michael were aware of these things and did nothing. Later reports about his claims state that he was anally raped by Michael, something no other accuser has claimed before. Robson stated that didn't realize he was molested until a nervous breakdown in 2012 and some therapy helped him realize it.
- His sister is with him on this, and so was a cousin by the name of Johnathan who supposedly passed away recently. I don't think details surrounding his death were made known. Diane Dimond and Stacy Brown, well-known in the MJ fandom for their bias, trashy reporting, were quick to jump to Robson's side. Brown even claimed that two others were going to come forward, and went as far as to claim that Jermaine told him that Taj (one of Michael's nephews) was molested by Michael. Several others have jumped to Robson's side as well, and there's a Facebook group and Twitter account dedicated to supporting him. The Twitter account has gotten heat for trolling Brett Barnes and other people MJ befriended when they were young by accusing them of supporting pedophilia, being victims and "encouraging" them to come forward. I put "encouraging" in quotes because the way they do that is to essentially bully them by saying things like "We know he abused you" and such.
- Since that time it's pretty much been a long, drawn-out process of hearing after hearing, and Robson making some PR moves to make himself look good and honest. Starting a non-profit organization, a yoga studio, and a film company. Ironically, he talks in his claims about Michael pressuring him to be the best and I believe he states that Michael urged him to pursue film making, but because of the way Michael hurt him he can't work in entertainment anymore. Yet he has a film company now... Hmm...
- In May of this year, James (Jimmy) Safechuck took legal action against the estate (can't remember if it's a civil suit or a late creditor's claim), claiming he was abused by Michael as well, and Robson's story encouraged him to come forward. Unlike Robson, he apparently knew he was abused all along, but was too afraid to come forward in 2005 because he was scared of his mom finding out. Then he told her anyway but has done nothing about it until now. It's also been said that he was threatened by Michael in regards to testifying at that trial. His abuse claims are pretty out there, with him stating that he and Michael had a mock wedding ceremony and watched child pornography.

Right now there's a hearing set for December 16th. The judge has apparently given Robson's side a chance to revise their claims because he didn't see anything in there about neglect. Honestly, I hope the whole ****ing thing gets shot down. Ever since this mess began I find that I've gotten to be a pretty irritable person and have been angry a lot. The sooner this mess ends, the better.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Good synopsis. Me too-pretty irritable and unbelievably depressed.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I wonder how much of the extortion money Wade is going to share with Mike Parr (facebook support page creator) and all these other people who support him and go to all these lengths to get people to support him as well.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Bloody H*ll... So let me get this straight? He can't work in the entertainment business, but he can do television interviews / tabloid garbage, own his own entertainment business, and as far as I noticed (not that I ever paid attention) never really left the entertainment business before this accusation in the first place? How convenient. What a tool. I knew it must have been pretty over the top (as most MJ scandals usually are.) Lord how I had hoped I would never have to hear Diane Dimond and MJ's name in the same sentence ever again. A girl could only dream? But I guess that's the thing about snakes? Even when you can't necessarily see (or hear) them, they're always there. Thanks for clearing that all up for me. Side note, Brett Barnes, whooooaaa. Haven't heard his name in years.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Thankfully Brett isn't jumping on Wade's train. Dimond has a malignant attitude and no matter how many times you flush she just doesn't go away. On another note, I have 4 snakes and all of them have better temperaments than her. :giggle:
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

@MJLovesyoumore

Is this Wade*s cousin?

http://www.heavenaddress.co.nz/Jonathan-Leslie-James-Keller/900494/


Jonathan Leslie James Keller
Born in Australia on 22 August 1984
Passed away on 9 November 2014
Aged 30 years

Funeral service will be held at Centenary Chapel, 353 Wacol Station Road SUMNER PARK on Thursday, 20th November 2014 at 1:00pm.
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I think it is. The only one who mentioned his death on facebook is Chantal Robson (Wade*s sister?) who wrote she lost a cousin "last week" on November 15th. Other than that her posts from 9-15 are a bit jolly. A woman with last name Keller (who had him in her friends list) posted a family photo with him on November 10th but nothing else.

I found out Wade and his wife are very active on Facebook. It sickens me how open Amanda and Wade are on Facebook regarding the case. All posts are public for everyone to see. Gotta love how it all started with sealed documents. Amanda posted a link to a Radar online article about Wade*s case few months ago and added a little *love* note - who does that? :bsCreeps.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

dannyboy72 said:
I wonder how much of the extortion money Wade is going to share with Mike Parr (facebook support page creator) and all these other people who support him and go to all these lengths to get people to support him as well.
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You know fully well he wont share a penny with any of them, nor they are in it for moeny, but being the smart person you think you are, you again trying in a sneaky way to prove that since his cousin, who many fans believe was devoted to the cause because he was expecting a share of the pie and since a dead person cant be behind the ongoing net campaign, what is our execuse for the continuous support by strange supporters who stand to gain nothing. unless we are crazy enough to believe wade is promising people left and right money inexchange of their support rather than they geniunely believe he is a victim.
If you were molested and has decided to devote your life to expose all pedos like MJ , to enlighten his fans , you better seek professional help ASAP, you are wasting your time .
Your arguments wont make us see how "ridiculous" our therories are with regard to wade supporters. As long as there are troubled obsessive people like the haters, we wont struggle at all to find a logical explanation for their support. One example is you.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

InvincibleTal said:
I think it is. The only one who mentioned his death on facebook is Chantal Robson (Wade*s sister?) who wrote she lost a cousin "last week" on November 15th. Other than that her posts from 9-15 are a bit . A woman with last name Keller (who had him in her friends list) posted a family photo with him on November 10th but nothing else.

I found out Wade and his wife are very active on Facebook. It sickens me how open Amanda and Wade are on Facebook regarding the case. All posts are public for everyone to see. Gotta love how it all started with sealed documents. Amanda posted a link to a Radar online article about Wade*s case few months ago and added a little *love* note - who does that? :bsCreeps.
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They are trying too hard.

Before this case Wade wasn*t a social media person at all, months and even years went by without him posting anything on any of his social media accounts. Interestingly he became a lot more active since. It also disgusts me how he uses his son to raise sympathy. Yeah, they wanted to get it sealed initially in protection of MJ*s privacy, but now it*s all about saying it loud and applausing tabloid articles with the most salacious headlines possible... :smilerolleyes:
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Soundmind said:
You know fully well he wont share a penny with any of them, nor they are in it for moeny, but being the smart person you think you are, you again trying in a sneaky way to prove that since his cousin, who many fans believe was devoted to the cause because he was expecting a share of the pie and since a dead person cant be behind the ongoing net campaign, what is our execuse for the continuous support by strange supporters who stand to gain nothing. unless we are crazy enough to believe wade is promising people left and right money inexchange of their support rather than they geniunely believe he is a victim.
If you were molested and has decided to devote your life to expose all pedos like MJ , to enlighten his fans , you better seek professional help ASAP, you are wasting your time .
Your arguments wont make us see how "ridiculous" our therories are with regard to wade supporters. As long as there are troubled obsessive people like the haters, we wont struggle at all to find a logical explanation for their support. One example is you.
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No offense, but you come across to me as someone who is not very smart. You misinterpret things I say and try to twist it into something its not. Can you read? or are you just a complete moron?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

respect77 said:
They are trying too hard.

Before this case Wade wasn*t a social media person at all, months and even years went by without him posting anything on any of his social media accounts. Interestingly he became a lot more active since. It also disgusts me how he uses his son to raise sympathy. Yeah, they wanted to get it sealed initially in protection of MJ*s privacy, but now it*s all about saying it loud and applausing tabloid articles with the most salacious headlines possible... :smilerolleyes:
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Oh really? I didn*t check their profiles history this far. But I agree about his son*s pictures. You would think they wouldn*t wanna share so many pictures of their son when their profiles are open for everyone to see including MJ fans who follow them because of the case especially when they post about the case every once in a while. I guess the Robsons don*t see the problem... Unless they really use him for sympathy.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Is this him?

https://twitter.com/JonoKeller

I haven*t found any reference to Wade on this Twitter (if it*s him), it deals more with his professional life, but I have seen a couple of re-tweets regarding depression...
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes, this is him... that*s the same profile picture he had on Facebook.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

InvincibleTal said:
Yes, this is him... that*s the same profile picture he had on Facebook.
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It looks like this family has serious problems with mental illness, depression.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

How he die?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Nobody mentioned why or how...
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Wade mentioned his cousin*s death in a conversation with someone about a book:

You mean Conversations WITH God?
If so, wow, also my first spiritual book that I ever read. 12 years ago!
Coming back to his writing now via a book called HOME WITH GOD. Inspired by the fact that I just lost my cousin in OZ to depression.
The book is fantastic so far and to come back to his writing so many years later, and it be so relevant and validating of everything else I have been learning is amazing.
The above status quote is from that book.
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So I guess we can safely say it was suicide. Just like Wade*s father (who was Jonathan*s uncle). Maybe Wade should find an honest way to identify and treat his mental issues instead of accusing someone who was good to him of henious crimes. (But I guess that is not so attractive as that would not set him for life financially.) Mental illness obviously runs in his family and has nothing to do with Michael Jackson.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Didn*t Wade say in one of the documents that he thought his father committed suicide because he suspected MJ was molesting Wade?

So Wade*s father commit suicide due to mental illness, then Wade*s cousin does the same thing.
I hope estate lawyers are aware of these cases, and use that info accordingly when necessary.
 
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