Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

I'll do a test now. lol! :wild:

Ok. I'll pretend I believe. I'm going to pretend that "she" exists or has existed in the life of Michael. lol!:wild:

So, I can not understand and never understand why they were not together... Why they will not be together because there was so much love between them, and love (true love) overcomes everything in life and survives any barrier/obstacle? So, much love could not overcome all these things? :scratch:So, never was and there never was a true love... :yes:

So, given this simple fact, for me, "she" does not exist and never existed. For me, there was only an imaginary woman invented in the mind of Michael. :)

Please, do not kill me for it! lol! :wild: :( That's how I think about it. :yes: :D
:lol: oh Ashtanga

:devil: nobody's going to kill you my lovely

:lol:


No, seriously. Again, I agree with what you are saying to a certain extent.

Its just that, the problem is that every imagining has at its roots some kind of a frame of reference.

I believe its possible that MJ had a frame of reference, a focal point, someone to imagine... hence, what I mean by "she" was his "muse".
 
:lol: oh Ashtanga

:devil: nobody's going to kill you my lovely

:lol:

Thanks! :D Now, I'll be more quiet and calm that no one will kill me. :wild:



No, seriously. Again, I agree with what you are saying to a certain extent.

Its just that, the problem is that every imagining has at its roots some kind of a frame of reference.

I believe its possible that MJ had a frame of reference, a focal point, someone to imagine... hence, what I mean by "she" was his "muse".
:yes: :D
 
Ashtanga there is one possible exception to this theory of ours. This reminds me that I didn't fully answer queen_g's question of what I meant by literally when I said

Maybe when he said, "I can't live my life without you", "I need us to carry on", "I need your love in my life", "I could ... die in my sleep 'cause you're always there in my dreams" he was in his heart "chasing" the muse-inspired hope we all dream of and meant those things literally.

What I meant was, if this person who has been his "frame of reference" for who he really should be with did exist, then this is someone he literally meant he can't live without.

I thought of this when I remembered that someone famous, I don't remember who it was, said that your true soul mate is not the person you decide you can best live with, but it is the person whom you know you cannot live without. In some of MJ's love songs he said that he cannot live without her and yet he goes on to live without her as he's singing about not being able to live without her. "She" is not anyone who was in his physical life as we can see from the fact that throughout the decades he continued to live without anyone permanent in his life even as he kept on singing about "her".

I agree that if he had come to the point where he was ready and able to find "her" he would have been with "her" but as it was, he seems to have not had the chance. His music says, "I will walk around this world to find "her" I don't care what it takes ... but he didn't ... or did he ... in his own way, at his own pace and in his own time, "persue" her without anyone knowing..

The only women we ever learned about him being with were women who in some way or other had made their own way into his space or who were at his easy access ....and yet he kept on singing about this nebulous "wish", "desire", "dream" or "muse" called "her".


"If these words could keep you happy" as opposed to anything else he was able to give the relationship at the time is what it seems he is saying to me, if indeed he meant it all literally.

Its that kind of thing, those kinds off seemingly heartfelt lyrics, that makes me believe he may have had true, literal hopes and beliefs that "she" did exist and was everything he felt she was when he said, "everything I'm looking for I seem to find". This is where she is both a "muse" and a "hope", all in one.
 
Last edited:
Yes. :yes: But, I'm always attentive to any threat of attack against me. :ph34r: This territory is dangerous. lol! :swoon: :wild:

Just kidding! :D :cheeky:

I know that peace reigns here. :)
Oh yes! :wub: there is peace here if nowhere else on the board ... this afterall, is the L.O.V.E. thread ;)
 
Ashtanga there is one possible exception to this theory of ours. This reminds me that I didn't fully answer queen_g's question of what I meant by literally when I said

Maybe when he said, "I can't live my life without you", "I need us to carry on", "I need your love in my life", "I could ... die in my sleep 'cause you're always there in my dreams" he was in his heart "chasing" the muse-inspired hope we all dream of and meant those things literally.

What I meant was, if this person who has been his "frame of reference" for who he really should be with did exist, then this is someone he literally meant he can't live without.

I thought of this when I remembered that someone famous, I don't remember who it was, said that your true soul mate is not the person you decide you can best live with, but it is the person whom you know you cannot live without. In some of MJ's love songs he said that he cannot live without her and yet he goes on to live without her as he's singing about not being able to live without her. "She" is not anyone who was in his physical life as we can see from the fact that throughout the decades he continued to live without anyone permanent in his life even as he kept on singing about "her".

I agree that if he had come to the point where he was ready and able to find "her" he would have been with "her" but as it was, he seems to have not had the chance. His music says, "I will walk around this world to find "her" I don't care what it takes ... but he didn't ... or did he ... in his own way, at his own pace and in his own time, "persue" her without anyone knowing..

The only women we ever learned about him being with were women who in some way or other had made their own way into his space or who were at his easy access ....and yet he kept on singing about this nebulous "wish", "desire", "dream" or "muse" called "her".


"If these words could keep you happy" as opposed to anything else he was able to give the relationship at the time is what it seems he is saying to me, if indeed he meant it all literally.

Its that kind of thing, those kinds off seemingly heartfelt lyrics, that makes me believe he may have had true, literal hopes and beliefs that "she" did exist and was everything he felt she was when he said, "everything I'm looking for I seem to find". This is where she is both a "muse" and a "hope", all in one.

Love...

I always believed that Michael always envisioned a kind of woman to have on your side. A female version of Michael Jackson. A woman like him incredibly strong and capable of overcoming and face all the problems / barriers / obstacles that might arise in the middle of the road. A woman warrior and victorious as Michael was always in life and in your career. A woman who thought like him about all things and see the world the same way he did. However, he always searched everywhere and never found that special woman. Maybe one day, somehow, God causes this meeting so special... I'm sure one day it will happen. :yes::wub:




Oh yes! :wub: there is peace here if nowhere else on the board ... this afterall, is the L.O.V.E. thread ;)

I could not forget the L.O.V.E. >>> Love Overcomes Virtually Everything

The love that moves this discussion. Love is always in the air here... :wub:


Before I forget... The picture of today:

mjreadinwd226x300.jpg


:wub::wub::wub:
 
Last edited:
Hello People!

Wow.... I have so much to read here, but I'm little lazy .... :lol: So I decided to have a presence here today posting this pic that I love from the single "Whatever Happens"

whateverhappens1.jpg


:wub:
 
hi tha :giggle: your post was funny ... nice pic of MJ in the saddest era of all for me :blush:

but the pic is nice :yes:

Love...

I always believed that Michael always envisioned a kind of woman to have on your side. A female version of Michael Jackson. A woman like him incredibly strong and capable of overcoming and face all the problems / barriers / obstacles that might arise in the middle of the road. A woman warrior and victorious as Michael was always in life and in your career. A woman who thought like him about all things and see the world the same way he did. However, he always searched everywhere and never found that special woman. Maybe one day, somehow, God causes this meeting so special... I'm sure one day it will happen. :yes::wub:






I could not forget the L.O.V.E. >>> Love Overcomes Virtually Everything

The love that moves this discussion. Love is always in the air here... :wub:


Before I forget... The picture of today:

mjreadinwd226x300.jpg


:wub::wub::wub:
Love the pic of MJ reading :wub:

Never saw it before. Where'd you find it? :)
 
Love the pic of MJ reading :wub:

Never saw it before. Where'd you find it? :)


Michael is beautiful and charming glasses. He always loved both the books... :wub:

I do not remember where I got this picture by doing a time. But what I know is that this picture was taken at Christmas 2008 at the home of Michael.

This book is in the hands of Michael... Remember the actress Carrie Fisher? She was the "Princess Leia" in the original trilogy of "Star Wars". She is the author of the book. She wrote this memoir about her life.

Wishful_Drinking-122455530858455.jpg



And... I love "Star Wars"! :wild:
 
Last edited:
I only had difficulty with that one sentence. I thought your post in general was excellent.



This was a great post, too. I am glad my question brought it forth. But please don't get the impression I ever thought I'd have trouble understanding what your meaning might be behind what you were wanting to communicate through that sentence; I only had trouble with your choice of wording in your sentence. And I will always, and I hope others will too, with no embarrassment or shame, ask when I do not understand someone's exact meaning. I value communication very much, and I wish to know what someone is wanting to get across to me, especially someone who has proven many times to have something valuable to share...like you.



(Where did you learn that using several giggly smilies do wonders for appeasement?)
I was just being silly with that one *cough* sentence :giggle:

I can't help the giggly smilies today...I have a serious case of the giggles and that smiley is so appropot!

I appreciate your question/ssssss :giggle: in all truthfulness ... it makes for a much more interesting discussion than when people let some bit of unintelligible ramblings go by without question. The only trouble I have had with questions is when I have asked them of others (in other threads) and they go either unanswered or scorned for the asking ... but no, I don't mind at all and thanks for letting me know I made a bit more sense. ;)

Ashtanga thanks for letting me know it was Christmas 2008. Ms. Fisher was at MJ's house for dinner as I understand it. Yes he looks quite striking in glasses.
 
Last edited:
I think I met Safire like 20 years ago when I worked at a radio station and she was doing a promo tour :wtf: that's weird.....

Remember summers post with these pics? Anyway, this part that I highlighted reminds me of that.....:)

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1900080&postcount=4373

I can feel you turn the key
That free my broken heart
Now I'm not afraid to love
Against some odds
And you're everything I know
That I can want and more
But I really didn't know it until now
 
Last edited:
Ashtanga thanks for letting me know it was Christmas 2008. Ms. Fisher was at MJ's house for dinner as I understand it. Yes he looks quite striking in glasses.
Yes! She was also the home of Michael and other people too. Her book seems to be quite interesting. :yes:

I found the picture (it is very bad image) in my archives:



19804419.jpg



Michael soooooooooo beautiful... :wub::wub::wub:




I think I met Safire like 20 years ago when I worked at a radio station and she was doing a promo tour :wtf: that's weird.....

Really? :doh: "I never heard" (written by Michael Jackson and Paul Anka) is the album "I Wasn't Born Yesterday" by Safire released in 1991. :unsure:
 
Last edited:
You have an amazing memory! That was a fun t-shirt he wore that day. I remember now Summer posting that. Ties in well.

I'm confused and drifting in the subject. lol! :wild: Sorry a silly question... What is the shirt he was wearing that day? lol! :scratch:



P.S. I looked at the pictures now. I think I understand:

I can feel you turn the key
That free my broken heart

On his shirt is printed a heart that seems to have a lock? Am I right? Or I'm not seeing right? lol! :wild:

The subliminal messages from Michael... He's always trying to tell us something through them. I love it! :wub:

Does this may mean that the heart is closed for love (for a new relationship)? I always thought that Michael was only focused on building their 3 children and his work... nothing. :)
 
Last edited:
Really? :doh: "I never heard" (written by Michael Jackson and Paul Anka) is the album "I Wasn't Born Yesterday" by Safire released in 1991. :unsure:

I think I may even have the cassette tape somewhere from 20 years ago :unsure: that name rang a bell :huh: very strange :alien: LOL

You have an amazing memory! That was a fun t-shirt he wore that day. I remember now Summer posting that. Ties in well.

I'm not sure how amazing my memory is, I can't even remember things I need in the store without a shopping list :ph34r: :lol: but I remember liking the shirt design it reminds me of one of my tank tops that says "many keys, one lock" and that kinda triggered it when I read the lyrics about the key and heart, I thought where else have I seen something like that. :huh: lol
 
I think I may even have the cassette tape somewhere from 20 years ago :unsure: that name rang a bell :huh: very strange :alien: LOL

20 years is a long time. lol! :wild: But they say this song is from 1980. In Mijac it was recorded in 1980. But I believe that Michael has changed the song (lyrics) several times. But it is beside the point. For me it does not matter when that song. The song is beautiful... for me is all that matters. :wub:



You are correct!!!:clapping:

locket.jpg

This shirt is beautiful. :wild: Probably should be the Christian Audigier. :yes:

Heart closed to love... :unsure:
 
Last edited:
Yay MJJC is back! Yeah, I noticed that MJJC and KOP board were both down at the same time and I was thinking "Weird?!". :scratch: Wonder who is behind it and why? Are we too powerful for someone? Anyways, as for saving this thread...well maybe when I have a couple of days free...gonna take a while to save all of this! :lol: :lol: Someone with a lot of time on their hands (or who knows how you can save the whole thing quickly) should save it all and make a file and then upload it and share it with us so that we could just download it. :D

Anyways, can't believe we got to hear a preview of the song already. :wild: I listened to the clip at work and I was instantly on an emotional rollercoaster after that. I was going through all kinds of emotions. First I had a smile on my face because I was happy to hear Michael's voice again and the song sounded happy, so it made me happy. But that only lasted for maybe a minute because I started thinking "Imagine how great the whole London thing could have been....The show...new songs...everyone loving MJ...seeing MJ smile...". And then I of course knew it all will never happen. We'll never see Michael again. We'll never see him smile, talk, sing or dance again. :boohoo: He'll never see us smiling and singing again. :( Then I read the whole lyrics to the song and I had tears flowing down my face again. 1. Because the lyrics were so sweet and happy 2. Because it made me so sad and angry in a way too to think that what if MJ had finally found someone...and then he died. :boohoo: Even just the thought breaks my heart into pieces. :cry: That would be so unfair! I've always said that with my luck I will probably find "the one" when I'm like 80 years old and dying...and I would have never wanted that to happen to anyone else...ESPECIALLY not MJ. He would have deserved to live a happy life and be loved for as long as possible. So even just the thought of him possibly having found someone and having been happy...only to be taken away from this earth just seems so unfair, and something that makes no sense and feels is so cruel. Then on the other hand it would make me happy to know he was happy when he died (if the song is any kind of indication). Then again so many people who were around him during the last weeks said he seemed unhappy and angry and tired. :cry: So I don't know. Like I said...I went through all kinds of emotions when I heard the This Is It clip. I still can't seem to get over how unfair I think it is that Michael had to die and I can't stop missing him. I know I should "snap out of it", but it's just so hard to do. I just miss him. What can I do. :cry:

Lily, I had to think of that shirt MJ wore too as soon as I read that part about "turning the key" in the lyrics. :yes: I remember the shirt because I loved it when I saw it and was like "I should wear that" because of the locked heart and I posted a pic of the heart in the "true love" thread too back then. http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43835&page=7 Except that my interpretation of the heart pic was not too positive. I'm glad the song has a more positive take on the "image". :lol:

And "it's a wrap"? I too would like to know how so? :scratch: :lol: Or was Justus just trying to get us to "finally wrap this thread up"? :lol:

Actually I wanna hear the whole song before I can say anything...because it seems the lyrics that are posted are slightly different from the ones MJ is singing in that clip. So is the clip the demo...and there is another version with other lyrics somewhere? Or did he change the lyrics later, after Safire recorded the song...for whatever reason? :scratch:
 
aw Summer I feel your pain :hug: I really do. The song sounds rather meloncholy to me, more longing.

There is a scripture in the bible that says, "a hope deferred makes the heart sick"

It may be true that he "found someone" and at the same time, since his life did not line up in such a way that he could, in a very simple way, realize that 'ideal' and actually be with "her", it could actually add to a person's day to day unhappiness, even if in their heart they have joy.

I know this is inviting Ashtanga to feel once again, no, there was no one in his heart at all because if there were he would have been with her. I just don't know about that. When you add it all up, look at his isolated lonely life, plus all the women that it was easy for Michael to be with, and was with, and you listen to his music, it is different stories.

I get the feeling that at the bottom of Michael's heart the sense of "belonging" is key. Lyrics that say things like, "I feel we belong" or "when two hearts belong so well" or just listening to him shout, "you and me! together!! together!!!" says that he was reaching OUT through his music to "someone". This is largely why I say that in the end, she served merely as a "muse", someone who brought forth the feeling from him through the music, someone he had an 'experience' with, but at the end, was not someone he was able to actually touch.

Now in analyzing the lyrics at one point I felt the contrary to that is, the song, For All Time says, "a tender touch you know so well" until I listened to it "AllforMJ style" and listened to the context and the words more carefully (that girl is somethin' else lol where is she!!!?) and I realized that he says, "if you feel alone I'll be (future) your shoulder, with a tender touch you'll (future) know so well". That put me back in 'muse' mode and realized maybe it is about a future dream yet to be realized. I don't know, I just do my part in trying to understand from a distance, and put together what makes for wise sense to me.

Its one way at least to understand the merging of the music, with the man's life. I'll break my own rule about not using past tense for the moment, to just say contrary to what any of us thought, he was clearly alone. So alone it was sad. He had friends, people who cared about him, but he was yet and still isolated. When people are isolated they live a lot 'in their heads' and at those times poetry, music, thoughts and feelings pour fourth. The bible also says, "out of the heart's abundance, the mouth speaks", so all we have to go on is what came out of his mouth as to what was in his heart, regardless to those in his surroundings and immediate life. Michael's not the only one. It happens all the time. I happened to go through the trunk of a car that belonged to my uncle who's been married to my aunt 40 years and in it I found a letter to a lady he had gone to high school with, recounting the first time he saw her "in that green sweater" and all the tender feelings he still had for her. It was so sad, all I could do was cry, for my uncle, (my aunt of course) and that lady. A true love, never realized.

Everyone tries their best to do as the old song says, that being "if you can't be with the one you love - - love the one you're with" but at the end of the day, when there's a sense of "belonging" you long to realize your life with, with one special it doesn't make life any easier to "love the one you're with". It makes life a lot more stressful in a deeper kind of way.

I just want to add that in the end, it still all amounts to a dream. A love lived in song, and in what amounts to what Ashtanga ( ;) ) would refer to as, an imaginary dream.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top