Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

[Ashtanga]

What is LOVE? Hmmmmm.....

It reminded me a little poem I wrote a while ago about love. It was not the way I wanted, but it was cute. lol! :wild: I'll share here:


"To love is trust. Love is respect. Love is confidential. Love is being happy with life. Love is never believe that is too late to start. Love is to honesty, loyalty, honesty. Love is companionship, friendship is mutual. Love it dedication. Love goes beyond the phrase "I love you" and / or "love you too."
Love is a feeling that grows little by little, day after day, and is not present on the first day we met that person of our dreams. Love is grown by gestures, by attitudes, by attention, by way of being spontaneous. Love the way and attitude to be, the love, dedication and the way that cultivated by his heart. Love for me is not carnal desire, but is the desire to be always with this person, whether in good times or bad. Love itself is finished and this is the finding that person to share a life with you.
Love is a bit of each sentence that describes. And happy is what you feel, not this pure love of live appearances."

 

[tha]

What is LOVE? Hmmmmm.....

"Love is the energy that drives all of humanity, much more precious than gold and whose existence is sometimes doubted. It is sought in the other, in ourselves, in books, and when it is not found, leads to the painful feeling of loneliness.
Love is not to have scared to live, trying to guess what the partner wants to get your approval, or fear your bad mood. The feeling of love is a honors and gives us the true extent of our value, makes us feel that we belong to the human race and we aren't just mere complements each other.
Love is a force that leads us to face all our fears, created from the first painful experience of approximation. It makes us brave and daring, ready to challenge the boredom and laziness, the challenge of everyday life, without letting it become routine.
As Aristotle said: "Love is the feeling of imperfect humans, since the function of love is to take humans to the perfection."
The word "love" is too limited to express the full meaning and, therefore, we seek to conceptualize the feeling, it is inevitable that we limit it."



Part of the book "Love can work"

It reminded me a little poem I wrote a while ago about love. It was not the way I wanted, but it was cute. lol! :wild: I'll share here:


"To love is trust. Love is respect. Love is confidential. Love is being happy with life. Love is never believe that is too late to start. Love is to honesty, loyalty, honesty. Love is companionship, friendship is mutual. Love it dedication. Love goes beyond the phrase "I love you" and / or "love you too."
Love is a feeling that grows little by little, day after day, and is not present on the first day we met that person of our dreams. Love is grown by gestures, by attitudes, by attention, by way of being spontaneous. Love the way and attitude to be, the love, dedication and the way that cultivated by his heart. Love for me is not carnal desire, but is the desire to be always with this person, whether in good times or bad. Love itself is finished and this is the finding that person to share a life with you.
Love is a bit of each sentence that describes. And happy is what you feel, not this pure love of live appearances."

:clapping:

Beautiful, Ash!

 

[Ashtanga]

"Love is the energy that drives all of humanity, much more precious than gold and whose existence is sometimes doubted. It is sought in the other, in ourselves, in books, and when it is not found, leads to the painful feeling of loneliness.
Love is not to have scared to live, trying to guess what the partner wants to get your approval, or fear your bad mood. The feeling of love is a honors and gives us the true extent of our value, makes us feel that we belong to the human race and we aren't just mere complements each other.
Love is a force that leads us to face all our fears, created from the first painful experience of approximation. It makes us brave and daring, ready to challenge the boredom and laziness, the challenge of everyday life, without letting it become routine.
As Aristotle said: "Love is the feeling of imperfect humans, since the function of love is to take humans to the perfection."
The word "love" is too limited to express the full meaning and, therefore, we seek to conceptualize the feeling, it is inevitable that we limit it."



Part of the book "Love can work"

Beautiful! :wild: :wub: Soooooooo true... :yes:

:clapping:
Beautiful, Ash!

Thanks!

 

[Ape]

http://www.sonymusic.co.jp/play/?ir5&in_IR014-02

:wub:



Also, for anyone who is interested, our first little bit of a teaser is out for the film I'm in. (just online right now and it's pretty simple but it does give a small taste of what the movie is about.. and shows my name ) Just PM me if interested to see it.

 

[Ashtanga]

http://www.sonymusic.co.jp/play/?ir5&in_IR014-02

:wub:



Also, for anyone who is interested, our first little bit of a teaser is out for the film I'm in. (just online right now and it's pretty simple but it does give a small taste of what the movie is about.. and shows my name ) Just PM me if interested to see it.

The song "This is it"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHtFwXBHApI&feature=player_embedded



"I Never Heard" >>>> Michael wrote this song in 1991 for this singer Safire (I saw the topic about the movie). Seems to be the same song.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCV1h40oS0o&feature=player_embedded


I Never Heard

This is it
Here I stand
In the light of the world
Love is grand
And this love
I can feel
And I know
Yes, for sure
It is real

And it seems as though
I've seen your face a thousand times
And you know
That you've seen my face before
And you said that you don't want me
To come around
But many times
I'm gonna do it to this love

Ooh, yeah
I never heard a single word about you
Falling in love wasn't my plan
I never thought that I would be your lover
Come on, please, baby
I'm trustin'

This is it
Here I stand
With you I've got the world in my hands
And this love
That I feel
Yes, I know
That's for sure
This is real

In my dreams I've seen your face a thousand times
But I know
Never felt this way before
I look at you
And I can't believe the love I found
And I know
That I can never want for more

I never heard a single word about you
Falling in love wasn't my plan
I never thought that I would be your lover
Come on, baby
I'm trustin'

This is it
(This is it)
Here I am
(Here I am)
I'm in love
And I'm at your command
(Your command)
This love
That I feel
(That I feel)
Never thought it could feel so real

I can feel you turn the key
That free my broken heart
Now I'm not afraid to love
Against some odds
And you're everything I know
That I can want and more
But I really didn't know it until now
No, no

I never heard a single word about you
Falling in love wasn't my plan
I never thought that I would be your lover
Come on, baby
I'm trustin'

Oh, yeah
I never heard a single
(Word about you)
Falling in love wasn't my plan
I never thought that I could be your lover
Come on, my baby
I'm trustin'

Oh, yeah
I never heard a single
(Word about you)
Oh, no
Come on, my baby
I'm trustin'
Yeah, yeah
I'm trustin'
Yeah, yeah, yeah
You see, you see
I never heard, I never heard
I never heard, I never heard
About you

 

[No-Body]

Ash, thx for posting the lyrics and the youtube link.

Overjoyed doesn't being to describe the sensation I felt at hearing his voice :wub: I'm just standing in front of the computer screen with the earphones on and a huge smile, or grin rather lol on my face and right about now I don't know of anything or anyone that could wipe it out.

Bless his heart, it's amazing what his voice and a few little words can do...

 

[Justus]

well that sums up some things talked about in this thread, doesn't it?

4 words: "That's a wrap, everybody!"

 

[No-Body]

well that sums up some things talked about in this thread, doesn't it?

Oh yes Justus, most certainly. It sums up things beautifully

 

[Lisha]

opcorn:

 

[Ashtanga]

Ash, thx for posting the lyrics and the youtube link.

Thanks! :cheeky:

The link is the discussion about the song "This is it":

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78084&page=14


:scratch:I'm confused about this song. "This is it" and "I Never Heard" by Safire, are the same songs? To me it is old and (Michael did a few years ago). The beginning of the letter is the same. In discussing the song say it is 1991 and Michael has to save Safire. I do not know... But that is beside the point now. Michael's voice is beautiful and exciting... :wub:

 

[Autumn II]

Because this little, gentle, thread is dear-to-my heart, I'd like to tell you something, and do with it what you will, ok?

Last night there was what appears to have been an "attack" on Michael Jackson boards all over the world. I'm serious. All the major fan-sites were crashed (taken offline), simultaneously, at about 11 p.m, EST, U.S. time. (That included the KOP board, and many, many others). They remained offline until mid-morning, today. I'm assuming that MJJC is saving data on a regular basis. However, this disruption was coordinated and apparently very sophisticated, and involved boards both in the U.S. and internationally, on a variety of servers. Therefore, to be totally safe, if you have the time and inclination, I would like to suggest that you copy and paste this thread to your personal desk-tops? I think it will be fine (?), but just in case you might be inclined to do that? (I thought you deserved to know. . . )

peace, all you good people,

Vic

 

[SoS]

Because this little, gentle, thread is dear-to-my heart, I'd like to tell you something, and do with it what you will, ok?

Last night there was what appears to have been an "attack" on Michael Jackson boards all over the world. I'm serious. All the major fan-sites were crashed (taken offline), simultaneously, at about 11 p.m, EST, U.S. time. (That included the KOP board, and many, many others). They remained offline until mid-morning, today. I'm assuming that MJJC is saving data on a regular basis. However, this disruption was coordinated and apparently very sophisticated, and involved boards both in the U.S. and internationally, on a variety of servers. Therefore, to be totally safe, if you have the time and inclination, I would like to suggest that you copy and paste this thread to your personal desk-tops? I think it will be fine (?), but just in case you might be inclined to do that? (I thought you deserved to know. . . )

peace, all you good people,

Vic

Wow Vic, thanks for the thoughtfulness of that warning, that is very interesting! Any theories on why the heck?

Vic, do you know if there is a simple way to save a thread onto a desktop?

 

[Lainy]

Thank very much Vic! Very delicate on your part post the clarifications!

Thanks!!:cheeky:

I miss when they don't come here! ^_^

 

[Lisha]

opcorn:

 

[Autumn II]

Wow Vic, thanks for the thoughtfulness of that warning, that is very interesting! Any theories on why the heck?

Vic, do you know if there is a simple way to save a thread onto a desktop?

It's not known at this time who perpetrated this. Only that it was extremely sophisticated, deliberate, very wide-spread, and targeted only MJ boards.

I'm not very computer literate, (LOL) so don't know of any way to save entire threads to the desk-top, or if that is even possible (probably not?)? I also don't know what sort of risk there is to us now, because I know that MJJC backs up data regularly. Just thought you guys might want to know, just-in-case there is more of this?

 

[SoS]

^ ok, yes, exactly, in case we want to save anything - gotcha - thanks again Vic.

Justus yeh, how's anything a wrap? :scratch:

u lost me on that one

Lily I like that last thing you said about love. Its true. At a point in life, it always becomes about returning to our "first love" (u didn't say that I did) which is us. Every relationship with another physical person will at some point end, somehow. Its inevitable. If we ever do love someone else, I do believe that even in the spiritual sense, our "hearts" do go on ... and on ..

Ape I'll just suffice it to say a quick >>

Tha I also love what you posted about love as an "energy" of all creation. That's very true too.

MP you mentioned the song, The Impossible Dream being a good theme song for this thread and you said you were j/k but I just wanted to say I concur

queen_g you brought up some stimulating questions about the song This Is It. I'm thinking maybe Justus was just tossing out a figure of speech ... maybe he just meant ... :scratch: um ...

Justus!! help! :lol:

 

[Lily]

Thank you Victoria for giving us that info. Some people are just evil blahhhhh.....I'll keep my other thoughts to myself since this is not the investigation thread. :mello: *sigh*


Thank you Ape and Ashtanga for posting the links and lyrics. Monday should be exciting.

Oh really? How so? Which things in particular?

I don't get it either. :wtf:

 

[Lisha]

opcorn:

 

[Lily]

Lily I like that last thing you said about love. Its true. At a point in life, it always becomes about returning to our "first love" (u didn't say that I did) which is us. Every relationship with another physical person will at some point end, somehow. Its inevitable. If we ever do love someone else, I do believe that even in the spiritual sense, our "hearts" do go on ... and on .

Thank you SoS. :flowers:

~~~~~

Uh oh I had more thoughts on LOVE.....:fear: :lol: here it goes.....:cheeky:

Sometimes I wonder, is TRUE LOVE something people really have to go searching for? Is life really incomplete without it? And if so, how does one know they are even looking in all the right places? My daily random thought. Hmmmmm.....:lol:

Everyone wants, longs for, is lonely at times, and thinks about being loved. Who doesn’t want or dream about the fairy tale? But that kind of LOVE shouldn’t be something that consumes us. We can’t give up on living life and sharing with others what we already have in our hearts.

Have you ever noticed how people gravitate towards someone who carries themselves a specific way and exudes certain energy? They live LOVE. They are LOVE. Look at MJ. He sings about LOVE in virtually every song. Whether is be romantic or worldly he shares the joy of it, the longing for it, the pain of it…..he needs and wants it just as all of us, but he’s not NEEDY for it. He takes the LOVE that he was born with already in his heart and lives life sharing it in other ways with the world, through song, creativity, how he carries himself, and humanitarian work. People are drawn to him. He is LOVE. We are all LOVE.

Just because we may not have a significant other to share ROMANTIC LOVE with doesn’t mean we give up on the dream of TRUE LOVE. Like I said before, unimaginable things appear if only you dare to dream…..just don’t let searching for it consume you, because when you do, you miss out on so much more in life and so many more dreams.

imo I think we complicate LOVE more than it truly is or should be. Sometimes in life we focus so much on what we WANT, we lose focus and forget about what we already HAVE. In my short time here on this earth I feel like I’ve lived many lifetimes. I know what makes me an unhappy person. Sometimes I've learned the hard way, but I've always gone back and looked within, I tell myself that I refuse to subject myself to allowing anything to taint what’s in my heart, MY LOVE. I live every day with DREAMS, HOPE, FAITH, IMAGINATION, BELIEF, and most of all LOVE in my heart. Happiness is a choice. Those are things that make me complete, they are all things I was born with and held in my heart as a child. What I’ve added minute-by-minute, year-by-year are life experiences that help build my character, and give me substance and knowledge. I will never be incomplete. Completeness just as LOVE comes from within. Everything else fabulous that comes my way in life, be it ROMANCE/TRUE LOVE, imo is all a beautiful bonus.

 

[Autumn II]

Wow Vic, thanks for the thoughtfulness of that warning, that is very interesting! Any theories on why the heck?

Are there "theories on why the heck?" Does the Pope have a BALCONY? This is not the place for that, though, so carry on.

peace (Oh, God, I hope so. . . . .eventually)

Vic

 

[Ashtanga]

Thanks, Victoria for that info. :flowers:



Very true, Ash, things aren't completely clear.

Is it true information that Michael together with Paul Anka wrote the melody and the lyrics to this song in 1980?

If so, in this leak we've heard today, is Michael singing the lyrics laid down in 1980?

Or, are the lyrics Safire is singing in 1991 the original lyrics written in 1980, and are the lyrics we've heard today, which has Michael singing the lyrics differently, and consequently changing the meaning a bit... lyrics he had since changed? Or, were the lyrics changed specifically for Safire's version in 1991?

And when did he change them and come up with his own version of the words...the next day after he a Paul did their thing? Or did he decide to tweek the lyrics in 1991 when the song was being prepared for Safire...or did he put his own twist to it as recently as six months ago for a particular reason?

I was thinking about all this. Surely one of those things happened. I do not know how this works. But I read that some singers do. For example, write a letter of a song and it is stored for a while. After that time the song is changed in the lyrics and melody. I think all singers do that, but also create multiple versions of a single song. Michael probably did this song in 1980 (does the song was unfinished at that time?) Along with his brothers (or not). In 1991 he changed the music that was given to Safire. I may be wrong, but the beginning of the letter "This is it" is the same song Safire. And "now", Michael took that letter again (there must be a good reason why this song has been chosen) and amended to ensure that there was the same as other versions. Thinking further, that music can have 3 different versions: 1980, 1991 and NOW, that we do not know exactly when Michael recorded this song.

That's my thought about it. But I can say that I'm completely in love with this song... It is a love ballad? For me it is. :wub:

Thank you Ape and Ashtanga for posting the links and lyrics. Monday should be exciting.

:yes:

Yes, it will be exciting. And I'm sure that once again the song of Michael will be in first place. As in the old days and as always... Michael will be dominating everything with "This is it"!!!! :wild::wild::wild:

 

[SoS]

Are there "theories on why the heck?" Does the Pope have a BALCONY? This is not the place for that, though, so carry on.

peace (Oh, God, I hope so. . . . .eventually)

Vic

:lol: good one! and you're right :yes:

Lily I agree with you, especially with this

Completeness just as LOVE comes from within. Everything else fabulous that comes my way in life, be it ROMANCE/TRUE LOVE, imo is all a beautiful bonus.

I imagine everyone has a sense of the ideal partner. Some people meet their ideal partner in their immediate circumstances or even upon just seeing them sense the "kindredness" and recognize it within a twinkling of an eye which is what MJ claims is his method for "knowing" something like that, when someone asked him how he would know he said, "you just know" or something like that. Sometimes circumstances allow people to flow into a partnership in life and sometimes circumstances keep them apart. And sometimes our own duality can get in the way. We sometimes have dual (and dueling) values about what we really want in life. MJ may have been no exception there either and I dare say it was rather obvious.

I always said and I'll say again, I get a sense from MJ's songs that someone served as a sort of a 'muse' for his work, his songs about longing and love. If she had been in his life in a practical way, or if he had really wanted that (who knows if he really did) I and others tend to believe his circumstances would have been very different. Some of MJ's songs seem to imply that he felt that if "she" was in his life circumstances would have been different also. I believe there are several, at least 3) different female themes running through the music, but as relates to this thread, the "star secret friend", the one he felt "like it was written in the stars", he "knew" - that theme seems to be consistent throughout as far as him having a sense of "ideal" perhaps continually inspired by the 'muse' in his heart, and seemed to feel "she" being in his life would make all the difference in his world.

In one song he says, "I'll change the rules for you", in another he says, "if I could tear down these walls .. our perfect love will start", in another he says, "left ourselves a mountain to be overcome" and in many songs he says what he says in For All Time, "I'll do anything" - all this to say that even though MJ didn't need the love of one woman to survive, maybe in his own sense of ideals, he felt he really did and maybe the only way he felt he could express it was through song.

Maybe when he said, "I can't live my life without you", "I need us to carry on", "I need your love in my life", "I could ... die in my sleep 'cause you're always there in my dreams" he was in his heart "chasing" the muse-inspired hope we all dream of and meant those things literally.

Maybe his certainty of this was expressed by his repeating of "you'll see" throughout The Way You Love Me. Maybe that means he was looking forward to a future ... "you'll see"

sounds like a promise

I'm just so glad fans are having a good time once again, amid all the sorrow. Just hearing his voice again after so long :wub:

I dunno ... blathering too now ... talk about a tangent! sry :blush:

 

[Ashtanga]

I always said and I'll say again, I get a sense from MJ's songs that someone served as a sort of a 'muse' for his work, his songs about longing and love. If she had been in his life in a practical way, or if he had really wanted that (who knows if he really did) I and others tend to believe his circumstances would have been very different. Some of MJ's songs seem to imply that he felt that if "she" was in his life circumstances would have been different also. I believe there are several, at least 3) different female themes running through the music, but as relates to this thread, the "star secret friend", the one he felt "like it was written in the stars", he "knew" - that theme seems to be consistent throughout as far as him having a sense of "ideal" perhaps continually inspired by the 'muse' in his heart, and seemed to feel "she" being in his life would make all the difference in his world.

In one song he says, "I'll change the rules for you", in another he says, "if I could tear down these walls .. our perfect love will start", in another he says, "left ourselves a mountain to be overcome" and in many songs he says what he says in For All Time, "I'll do anything" - all this to say that even though MJ didn't need the love of one woman to survive, maybe in his own sense of ideals, he felt he really did and maybe the only way he felt he could express it was through song.

Maybe when he said, "I can't live my life without you", "I need us to carry on", "I need your love in my life", "I could ... die in my sleep 'cause you're always there in my dreams" he was in his heart "chasing" the muse-inspired hope we all dream of and meant those things literally.

Maybe his certainty of this was expressed by his repeating of "you'll see" throughout The Way You Love Me. Maybe that means he was looking forward to a future ... "you'll see"

sounds like a promise

:scratch::smilerolleyes:

 

[SoS]

:scratch::smilerolleyes:

:lol: what's that :scratch: for?? and why are you rolling your eyes ??

 

[Lisha]

opcorn:

 

[No-Body]

I imagine everyone has a sense of the ideal partner. Some people meet their ideal partner in their immediate circumstances or even upon just seeing them sense the "kindredness" and recognize it within a twinkling of an eye which is what MJ claims is his method for "knowing" something like that, when someone asked him how he would know he said, "you just know" or something like that. Sometimes circumstances allow people to flow into a partnership in life and sometimes circumstances keep them apart. And sometimes our own duality can get in the way. We sometimes have dual (and dueling) values about what we really want in life. MJ may have been no exception there either and I dare say it was rather obvious.

I always said and I'll say again, I get a sense from MJ's songs that someone served as a sort of a 'muse' for his work, his songs about longing and love. If she had been in his life in a practical way, or if he had really wanted that (who knows if he really did) I and others tend to believe his circumstances would have been very different. Some of MJ's songs seem to imply that he felt that if "she" was in his life circumstances would have been different also. I believe there are several, at least 3) different female themes running through the music, but as relates to this thread, the "star secret friend", the one he felt "like it was written in the stars", he "knew" - that theme seems to be consistent throughout as far as him having a sense of "ideal" perhaps continually inspired by the 'muse' in his heart, and seemed to feel "she" being in his life would make all the difference in his world.

In one song he says, "I'll change the rules for you", in another he says, "if I could tear down these walls .. our perfect love will start", in another he says, "left ourselves a mountain to be overcome" and in many songs he says what he says in For All Time, "I'll do anything" - all this to say that even though MJ didn't need the love of one woman to survive, maybe in his own sense of ideals, he felt he really did and maybe the only way he felt he could express it was through song.

Maybe when he said, "I can't live my life without you", "I need us to carry on", "I need your love in my life", "I could ... die in my sleep 'cause you're always there in my dreams" he was in his heart "chasing" the muse-inspired hope we all dream of and meant those things literally.

Maybe his certainty of this was expressed by his repeating of "you'll see" throughout The Way You Love Me. Maybe that means he was looking forward to a future ... "you'll see"

sounds like a promise

I'm just so glad fans are having a good time once again, amid all the sorrow. Just hearing his voice again after so long

I dunno ... blathering too now ... talk about a tangent! sry

SoS, what on earth are you apologizing for? That was such a beautiful post :clapping:


Lily, I also agree with you - happiness is a choice. And also, romantic love is not only kind of love one needs have in life, although it is a rather important piece of pie.

In a strange way, your reflection reminded me of the lyrics of a song from Macy Gray and Common, Ghetto heaven and especially the line "never find a man, till you find yourself".

Before we can embark on a meaningful relationship and seek love in others we must first be sure to know ourselves, our ideals, what we stand for in life and love ourselves. Then, when we see similar things in another it will be like looking in the mirror, with some distortions of course, which can be differing opinions and habits. We have to be strong individuals before we can be strong couples and strong families. For any1 interested in the entire lyrics to the song http://lyrics.filestube.com/song/57de1f8977c6461403e9,Geto-Heaven-Pt-2.html I'm sorry I couldn't copy them here. I also love the line "music is a gift that is sacred".


The confusion about the song....let me ask you all - DOES IT MATTER when, how and why the song came about/was recorded? They all are legitimate questions, I know, but there are moments in life when one needs not question things, but take them at face value. Not knowing any of that should not stop us from enjoying the music. As Victoria said a few pages back, mystery is good, and at times it needs to stay as such. Carpe diem folks, seize the moment, it's yours for the taking.

And since I mentioned Victoria - did you find the video you were looking for yesterday? Last night I was about to send you a PM with three links when the site stopped working. I'm sure none of them are the video you had in mind since they have only some of the elements you described, but I thought they would be enjoyed by everyone anyhow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbyMOOjJqY8&feature=PlayList&p=C5B4998278393E0C&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hzd85Rj1zM&hl=ro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaG2hOBQN6g&feature=PlayList&p=2A0FEF3DD9B86F11&index=9

 

[Ashtanga]

:lol: what's that :scratch: for?? and why are you rolling your eyes ??

I was thinking about "she": "God, do I'm the only person who believes that "she" does not exist and never existed? :scratch:"She" is just an imaginary woman/fictional created by Michael in your thoughts? lol!

I feel bad about being the only person thinking this way. I can not think otherwise! lol! :wild:

:swoon:




* Muse
The Muses are mythological entities that are assigned the ability to inspire artistic creation or scientific, in Greece, were the nine daughters of Mnemosyne and Zeus. Muse, in the singular, is the woman real or imaginary that inspires creation. The male counterpart would be the faun, but this has to be exactly the same capacity inspiring mythology. The temple of the Muses was the Museion, a term that gave rise to the word museum, in the various Indo-European languages, as a place of cultivation and preservation of arts and sciences.

Source: Wikipedia



*Curiosity: For Muslims, Moses (Arabic: "Muse" >>> موسى) was a great prophet.




*Thinking philosophically (ideas and inspirations):

Plato: The Platonic Theory of Ideas

The theory of ideas is the fundamental characteristic of the philosophy of Plato. It is also what, in his theory, it seems, to our modern eyes, most aberrant. It is often the theory of Plato's ideas a kind of hallucination that only have historical interest, yet she played a significant role in the later philosophy (if only as an obstacle to be avoided), and continues to influence the philosophy of mathematics: a modern philosopher like Frege might well be considered platonic.

Rather than criticize this theory, let us show (at least initially) the underlying reasons which led Plato and others after him to defend a theory in such a strange appearance.

In what way is this theory of ideas?

It is not difficult to sketch the outline. For Plato, the world we live in, containing the objects we perceive, is not the only world that exists. There is also a world of ideas separate from the sensible world in which we evolved. This world of ideas (as the name suggests) is entirely composed of ideas. But what Plato means by "idea"? Not what you usually call this term (usually called "idea" to the product of our thinking: there is only one idea on us and just as we think of it). For Plato, "idea" has a totally different direction that could result in its essence.

Here's an example: there are a number of seats in our world, many of them are different: some are large, some small, some plastic, some wood... However, despite these differences, all receive the same name as chair test are also somehow similar. It is this essence of the chair, what is identical in all the chairs, what Plato calls the Idea, or "chair itself." Now what characterizes Plato, is that for him this "chair itself, this essence of the chair, there is truly a world apart, independent of ours: the world of ideas. This world is thus peopled by the idea of chair, the idea of the table, but also by the idea of a triangle, just, beautiful.

In short, everything that exists in our world in many items (examples: chairs, tables, triangles, just actions, beautiful objects...) is in a unique and perfect in the world of ideas. It is important to realize that the world of ideas not from the activity of our reason. He existed even before the existence of human beings. This is exactly what seems a little strange to our modern mind (indeed, usually think that what unites us, for example, multiple tables we see is what we call the concept, and that the concept is the product of our intelligence compares the tables, see what's similar or different in them...). For Plato, the sensible world (in which we live) and the world of ideas exist and both are equally independent of our reason.


*I'm sure Michael has read about it! :wild:

 

[SoS]

SoS, what on earth are you apologizing for? That was such a beautiful post

Thanks Shabuya I'm glad *cough*someone*cough* understood what I was saying Some people apparantly just 'get' eachother's stream of consciousness ramblings thanks again Shabuya

um, OK queen_g, first of all, thank you for giving me a clue of what Ashtanga may have been rolling her eyes about, but now... with English not being her first language, and yet it evidently being your expertise (by evidently I mean how fluidly you use it), I have to wonder if my wording may not have been off so I will try and oblige with a rephrasing.

Would you mind breaking down this sentence so I might have a better understanding of what you are saying?

What does "muse-inspired hope" mean? I know what a muse might be, as far as one who brings ideas to one's art. I know a muse inspires. How does a muse, one that is being using to inspire art, also inspire "hope?"

by 'muse' I'm referring to the nebulous spirit of inspiration such as that which inspires music. Music is inspired and THIS artist's music ofttimes represents songs of longing, love and .....well ......also hope. Does that make more sense?

Maybe it could be said a muse can inspire a hope that maybe soon the artist might get a new idea for their art? So what kind of hope are you talking about?

I'm referring to the very "hope" that the artist is singing about which a look at the lyrics tells us about. He seems to be saying he "wants", he "desires", he "wishes" - that is what I mean by the muse ("she") inspired "hope".

The hope presented in the songs seem to indicate that he "hopes" love will be all he believes it could and would be once they are together. eg., "tell me this is real, tell me how you feel, say its what we both believe in", or "I pray in you I'll find a love so true" or "but first I need your hand and forever can begin" or "can't go on without you by my side", or "come and rescue me out of this storm and out of this cold I need some warmth - - - - hold on", or or or .... is it making more sense now? :scratch:

And what is it that we all dream of that has some connection to a hope inspired by a muse?

What I said was, Maybe when he said, "I can't live my life without you", "I need us to carry on", "I need your love in my life", "I could ... die in my sleep 'cause you're always there in my dreams" he was in his heart "chasing" the muse-inspired hope we all dream of

Hope is inspired within all humans who know there is more than what we are living, particularly if we are living out of balance (Yin/Yangerly speaking. Now I know you know what I mean by that! lol yes?) , we humans are expansive beings, we are not content with this being "it", we have hope, an ongoing understanding that there is space within us that can hold another in our sphere, in our midst, in our hearts, in our space, and in the innermost spaces that are not easily reached by just any other.

Its part and parcel (ok part is parcel isn't it hmmm) of what this thread is all about - "connection" and what I believe attracts many of us to it. Being connected, even peripherally, with the energy of love, with and for Michael and the energy of the reciprocity of Michael's expressions of love in his music.

The movie Cast Away with Tom Hanks showed that as humans we need connection, even if its with a volley ball. He had a volley ball, we have this thread Michael had his version of "her", and what his life would be like with "her" in it.

Also, what did he mean perhaps literally?

Are you just meaning that this hope he might be expressing in his lyrics is about his wanting to one day get together with this dreamgal...who is also his muse?

Yes, I'm meaning that for as long as a person is serving as a muse, there is a sense of "ideal" about that person. The moment the person ceases being a "muse" and is actually now being a human, then and only then could he really know whether he'd want that person in his life or not but before then, its a "muse-inspired-hope".

And, we all dream (all?) that if we have a similar hope it will be fulfilled one day, too? Is that how you are connecting things here, and what your sentence means?

Yes I do believe we all dream. I believe that when peoples' dreams are similiar to eachothers' (meaning their values, desires and dare I say hopes) they can easily connect, and for others dreams remain dreams, desires remain desires and hope remains hope.

:scratch: something like that anyway


:scratch:

 

[SoS]

I was thinking about "she": "God, do I'm the only person who believes that "she" does not exist and never existed? :scratch:"She" is just an imaginary woman/fictional created by Michael in your thoughts? lol!

I feel bad about being the only person thinking this way. I can not think otherwise! lol! :wild:

:swoon:




* Muse
The Muses are mythological entities that are assigned the ability to inspire artistic creation or scientific, in Greece, were the nine daughters of Mnemosyne and Zeus. Muse, in the singular, is the woman real or imaginary that inspires creation. The male counterpart would be the faun, but this has to be exactly the same capacity inspiring mythology. The temple of the Muses was the Museion, a term that gave rise to the word museum, in the various Indo-European languages, as a place of cultivation and preservation of arts and sciences.

Source: Wikipedia


Curiosity: For Muslims, Moses (Arabic: "Muse" >>> موسى) was a great prophet.

No, Ashtanga, we are in a sense saying the same thing.

We differ only in believing there is a "she". I don't understand why you can't see that any other way but its ok with me although I do wish you would explain what you mean by "I cannot think otherwise". Why can't you? just out of curiosity.

I believe there is a "she" who served a purpose in inspiring some of Michael's work, perhaps even some of his dreams of what he felt would be ideal with "her". I believe he felt what his music says he felt and I also believe that in a sense and to a certain extent, that was a kind of fullfillment within itself.

A bit like "satisfaction", without SATIATION or "knowing", without KNOWLEDGE.

Like a "breath about to be taken" that doesn't quite become the inhale.

 

[Ashtanga]

No, Ashtanga, we are in a sense saying the same thing.

We differ only in believing there is a "she". I don't understand why you can't see that any other way but its ok with me.

I believe "she" served the purpose of inspiring Michael's work, perhaps even his dreams of what he felt would be ideal with "her". I believe he felt what his music says he felt and I also believe that in a sense and to a certain extent, that was a kind of fullfillment within itself.

A bit like "satisfaction", without SATIATION or "knowing", without KNOWLEDGE.

I'll do a test now. lol! :wild:

Ok. I'll pretend I believe. I'm going to pretend that "she" exists or has existed in the life of Michael. lol!:wild:

So, I can not understand and never understand why they were not together... Why they will not be together because there was so much love between them, and love (true love) overcomes everything in life and survives any barrier/obstacle? So, much love could not overcome all these things? :scratch:So, never was and there never was a true love... :yes:

So, given this simple fact, for me, "she" does not exist and never existed. For me, there was only an imaginary woman invented in the mind of Michael.

Please, do not kill me for it! lol! :wild: That's how I think about it. :yes: