Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

[Themidwestcowboy]

Re: MJ feeling the LN backlash in Belgium

Can you take this thread to the leaving never land thread in trials and tribulations where it belongs? Thanks

 

[JichaelMackson]

Re: MJ feeling the LN backlash in Belgium

Nite Line sure it looks alright but in reality those sales mean at best 200 copies sold. It doesn't mean much. Those radio polls however are massively popular in Belgium with thousands of voters each year. MJ remained VERY high in those lists after his death but apparently this yer it is different.

Regarding streams, I do my very best I listen to MJ stuff daily and so do millions of fans probably. MJ was my most listened to artist in 2018 and 2nd most in 2019 according to my Spotify stats. But what we think or do regarding MJ is not of importance, it is what the general public thinks that's important for the lasting legacy of an artist.

PS I think mr Realistic is a more appropriate name for me.

 

[dethorro]

Re: MJ feeling the LN backlash in Belgium

The backlash in 93 was non existent, he stayed big and powerful on his throne and that's because Chandler never talked about what allegedly happened so it had zero impact.

It didn't have zero impact. Scream ''only'' reached number 5 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart even though it was the first single off of HIStory. As a comparison..look at how well Black Or White did when it was released.

 

[Glanni]

does anyone have the FULL UNEDITED video of Oprahs interview with Dave Chappelle from 2006? the one on her official youtube channel is crazy edited.

 

[Anna]

LN did a lot of damage, but there's nothing else we can do about it at this point, so focusing so much on the negativity is pointless. It isn't helpful or healthy. A lot of people think he's a paedophile, the swell of goodwill after his death is gone, the mass embracing of him throughout our culture has significantly diminished — all these things are true, but you also can't change any of it, you just have to accept it and look at the positive things. Try and think of the big picture instead of where we are now.

 

[somewhereinthedark]

I mean you’ve got the whole world dancing like Michael Jackson thanks to Drake’s new song so I’ll focus on that rather than a stupid radio poll but each to their own.

Thank You!

 

[somewhereinthedark]

Nite Line sure it looks alright but in reality those sales mean at best 200 copies sold. It doesn't mean much. Those radio polls however are massively popular in Belgium with thousands of voters each year. MJ remained VERY high in those lists after his death but apparently this yer it is different.

Regarding streams, I do my very best I listen to MJ stuff daily and so do millions of fans probably. MJ was my most listened to artist in 2018 and 2nd most in 2019 according to my Spotify stats. But what we think or do regarding MJ is not of importance, it is what the general public thinks that's important for the lasting legacy of an artist.

PS I think mr Realistic is a more appropriate name for me.

Lol, I wouldn’t call you realistic. Of course, maybe your idea of being “realistic” is based on your location. I guess I could call myself “realistic” because based on MY location Michael is as popular or more than Prince, David Bowie, Beatles, or Elvis. Just for the record, NONE of these people have had a CONTRIVED and ORCHESTRATED campaign to extort, destroy and defame their legacy. The REALITY is that Michael is STILL as popular, influential and loved as either of those aforementioned, even with all of the bull@#$& constantly thrown at him.

 

[somewhereinthedark]

You being negative as per usual.

What is his/her AGENDA? Of course, there is one. Don’t be fooled by the so-called “realistic”/“objective” stance. I saw the same type during the ‘93 and ‘05 extortion/false allegations.

 

[JichaelMackson]

Re: MJ feeling the LN backlash in Belgium

It didn't have zero impact. Scream ''only'' reached number 5 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart even though it was the first single off of HIStory. As a comparison..look at how well Black Or White did when it was released.

Sorry but comparing scream to black or white is a bit foolish. Black or white is pop perfection. Scream was a track that didn't sound particularly radio friendly and it's sound was too different to the stuff the people were used to back then. Besides your point doesn't make sense as the 2nd single from that album YANA was a worldwide nr 1 hit anyway.
Also the allegations started in 93 not in 95, to see if it had impact we'd have to look at his sales/airplay in 93.

 

[JichaelMackson]

Lol, I wouldn’t call you realistic. Of course, maybe your idea of being “realistic” is based on your location. I guess I could call myself “realistic” because based on MY location Michael is as popular or more than Prince, David Bowie, Beatles, or Elvis. Just for the record, NONE of these people have had a CONTRIVED and ORCHESTRATED campaign to extort, destroy and defame their legacy. The REALITY is that Michael is STILL as popular, influential and loved as either of those aforementioned, even with all of the bull@#$& constantly thrown at him.

You just don't get it, at this very moment his legacy is still very much alive but it won't stay that way because of the LN narrative. We already see sign of declining popularity and I wouldn't call it unrealistic that at some point perhaps in a decade that radio will stop focussing on MJ music altogether (as future generations will only hear about the accusations). Next generations will not see MJ as the King of pop but due to LN as a pedophile.
This is exactly what the Estate is fighting against. By ignoring what is happening now you're only doing yourself a disservice. People have ignored climate change for 4 decades and now it's too late. Truth runs marathons but if nothing is done now the only truth that will survive is that MJ is a pedophile. Somebody has to be awake and you lot (bar a few) are in a coma.

and stop this ridiculous paranoid bullshit about an agenda, feel free to look at my posts and then tell me I'm not a lifelong MJ fan. I've been to 2 concerts, bought all the albums, read biographies, had my bedroom walls plastered with posters as a kid and when an MJ song is played somewhere everybody looks at me as they expect me to bust out a move. So if you think I'm not a fan then that's your problem.

 

[Dunk96]

The only thing that can be done now is just letting the haters talk their sh*t and focus on Michael's music and keeping his legacy alive. LN may have caused damage but that doesn't mean it's irreversible. A lot of karma is being blown on a regular basis to the asshats that made the f*ckumentary so there's hope that their bullsh*t won't last forever. The worst thing that could happen would be if the courts sided with HBO over The Estate in the trial. Hell would break loose across the board if that were the final verdict. At this juncture Michael has been gone for almost eleven years and the people who keep making these accusations are shooting themselves in the foot because Michael is not here to defend himself. The Estate (however I may negatively feel about them) are the only ones who can really defend his name in his absence. Our only job as fans now is just to enjoy what he's given us and let it be. We've spent countless efforts to defend his name and with all of the material in his defense made by his fans and the upcoming Taj docuseries,at this point those outside of the fan community can make their decisions whether or not to believe his innocence or guilt. Those who already thought he was guilty have their minds made up and they won't change. Education is the only thing that will let people see the truth and we as fans have most definitely done that job and then some.

 

[terrell]

Re: MJ feeling the LN backlash in Belgium

You just don't get it, at this very moment his legacy is still very much alive but it won't stay that way because of the LN narrative. We already see sign of declining popularity and I wouldn't call it unrealistic that at some point perhaps in a decade that radio will stop focussing on MJ music altogether (as future generations will only hear about the accusations). Next generations will not see MJ as the King of pop but due to LN as a pedophile.
This is exactly what the Estate is fighting against. By ignoring what is happening now you're only doing yourself a disservice. People have ignored climate change for 4 decades and now it's too late. Truth runs marathons but if nothing is done now the only truth that will survive is that MJ is a pedophile. Somebody has to be awake and you lot (bar a few) are in a coma.

and stop this ridiculous paranoid bullshit about an agenda, feel free to look at my posts and then tell me I'm not a lifelong MJ fan. I've been to 2 concerts, bought all the albums, read biographies, had my bedroom walls plastered with posters as a kid and when an MJ song is played somewhere everybody looks at me as they expect me to bust out a move. So if you think I'm not a fan then that's your problem.

Come on, tell us the truth. You hope MJ is disliked. The only gloom and doom I see is this stuff right here. yes, MJ has haters but he is no where near out. And I do not think LN did as much damage as you and other want to believe. Yes, there are people who want to believe the lies but there alot who still love him. I am not in coma but I will not let someone like you act like this is the end of world for Michael. That is a LIE as well. And the way things are going, EVERYONE is being accused nowadays for BS which is getting on most people nerves now.

 

[JichaelMackson]

Re: MJ feeling the LN backlash in Belgium

Come on, tell us the truth. You hope MJ is disliked.

I'm always willing to discuss the harm LN has done or not done but if you think this is the best way to start talking to me then it ends here for me. It's like talking to a brick wall and they generally aren't known for being good conversationists.

 

[terrell]

Re: MJ feeling the LN backlash in Belgium

I'm always willing to discuss the harm LN has done or not done but if you think this is the best way to start talking to me then it ends here for me. It's like talking to a brick wall and they generally aren't known for being good conversationists.

No, I wont let you act like it is the end of the world for MJ. That is my issue. If what you think was true, then I should not be seeing how MJ is loved. I am NOT denying MJ has some haters and if anyone is quick to believe LN, then they NEVER like MJ from the start because it is too much info to show the lies of that trash and that is ok if there are people like that; however, many people still love MJ. I still say MJ is doing great considering he has been dead for 11 years, 61 years old had he lived, and he is still being celebrated and discuss like he is still alive and in the boat with these current artists let alone all what he has been through. I will continue to say it "a current artist would love to have MJ's worst day in record sales, airplay, etc"

 

[JichaelMackson]

The only thing that can be done now is just letting the haters talk their sh*t and focus on Michael's music and keeping his legacy alive. LN may have caused damage but that doesn't mean it's irreversible. A lot of karma is being blown on a regular basis to the asshats that made the f*ckumentary so there's hope that their bullsh*t won't last forever. The worst thing that could happen would be if the courts sided with HBO over The Estate in the trial. Hell would break loose across the board if that were the final verdict. At this juncture Michael has been gone for almost eleven years and the people who keep making these accusations are shooting themselves in the foot because Michael is not here to defend himself. The Estate (however I may feel about them) are the only ones who can really defend his name in his absence.

The Estate will try and there will be counteractions to LN but the problem is that for the media this story has already had an outcome. I will be very very surprised to see rebuttals headlining prime time tv or big news broadcasters. Getting rebuttals on YouTube or Netflix won't help one bit because only the select few who are interested in it will take the time to watch it. But as with all things we have to wait and see when it comes. In the meantime all we can do is speculate and since my speculations aren't very popular here I get branded as some sort of devil but I know who I am and how I grew up. I speak from the heart and my words have equal meaning to other peoples words.

 

[JichaelMackson]

Re: MJ feeling the LN backlash in Belgium

No, I wont let you act like it is the end of the world for MJ. That is my issue. If what you think was true, then I should not be seeing how MJ is loved. I am NOT denying MJ has some haters and id anyone is quick to believe LN, then they NEVER like MJ from the start because it is too much info to show the lies of that trash and that is ok if there are people like that; however, many people still love MJ. I still say MJ is doing great considering he has been dead for 11 years, 61 years old had he lived, and he is still being celebrated and discuss like he is still alive and in the boat with these current artists.

As I said in a previous post, currently this is correct but you have to look at it in the long run.Obviously there is still a lot of love, the man had millions of fans all over the world but for a legacy to survive one has to gain new fans. I'm not sure if that will happen in next generations, the name is stained and stains are hard to get out.
The way I see it (as you all know by now) there are cracks in the dam and it will burst if nothing is done.

 

[terrell]

Re: MJ feeling the LN backlash in Belgium

As I said in a previous post, currently this is correct but you have to look at it in the long run.Obviously there is still a lot of love, the man had millions of fans all over the world but for a legacy to survive one has to gain new fans. I'm not sure if that will happen in next generations, the name is stained and stains are hard to get out.
The way I see it (as you all know by now) there are cracks in the dam and it will burst if nothing is done.

I believe it will be. And we all have stains in life but we all will survive it in time and MJ will do the same. And you have to remember also, people can cry wolf for only so long until it starts to just sound like and be noise. That is starting to happen with these accusations now as well. And it is funny now, MJ is being praised with all the mask wearing. As people have been saying "we mocked MJ but he was right and now we all are looking like him". LOL

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

I can name a lot of things positive has happen since LN. but I already have so i'm not gonna repeat myself.

 

[Anna]

What is his/her AGENDA? Of course, there is one. Don’t be fooled by the so-called “realistic”/“objective” stance. I saw the same type during the ‘93 and ‘05 extortion/false allegations.

Give it a rest.

 

[terrell]

I can name a lot of things positive has happen since LN. but I already have so i'm not gonna repeat myself.

Oprah got more of backlash than MJ.

 

[somewhereinthedark]

You just don't get it, at this very moment his legacy is still very much alive but it won't stay that way because of the LN narrative. We already see sign of declining popularity and I wouldn't call it unrealistic that at some point perhaps in a decade that radio will stop focussing on MJ music altogether (as future generations will only hear about the accusations). Next generations will not see MJ as the King of pop but due to LN as a pedophile.
This is exactly what the Estate is fighting against. By ignoring what is happening now you're only doing yourself a disservice. People have ignored climate change for 4 decades and now it's too late. Truth runs marathons but if nothing is done now the only truth that will survive is that MJ is a pedophile. Somebody has to be awake and you lot (bar a few) are in a coma.

and stop this ridiculous paranoid bullshit about an agenda, feel free to look at my posts and then tell me I'm not a lifelong MJ fan. I've been to 2 concerts, bought all the albums, read biographies, had my bedroom walls plastered with posters as a kid and when an MJ song is played somewhere everybody looks at me as they expect me to bust out a move. So if you think I'm not a fan then that's your problem.

It seems as if you are the one in a coma. Have you not seen all of the things that MJ fans have uncovered to rebuke that NAMBLA/child porn film LN? Where have you been? Why do you think Michael has gained so many new fans since that @#$& was released. No intelligent and rational person believe those two pieces of trash. The only people who believe them are actually pedophiles themselves or people who WANT children to have been abused, when they really weren’t, for their own sick gratification.

That fraudomentary has had the opposite effect. There are many, many people who NOW support Michael more than they ever did in
The first extortion plot or the fake 2005 case. It has caused people to see the AGENDA of Oprah Winfrey and the other conspirators
Involved. Just maybe you need to wake up and see what’s really happening, instead of focusing only on what you want to see-negativity.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Oprah got more of backlash than MJ.

She has. and still getting it.

 

[terrell]

The Estate will try and there will be counteractions to LN but the problem is that for the media this story has already had an outcome. I will be very very surprised to see rebuttals headlining prime time tv or big news broadcasters. Getting rebuttals on YouTube or Netflix won't help one bit because only the select few who are interested in it will take the time to watch it. But as with all things we have to wait and see when it comes. In the meantime all we can do is speculate and since my speculations aren't very popular here I get branded as some sort of devil but I know who I am and how I grew up. I speak from the heart and my words have equal meaning to other peoples words.

well, LN did not get prime time tv. It was on HBO (Netflix is doing better than HBO). You are not branded the devil but you need to stop like the world is coming to a end for MJ.

 

[Dunk96]

This back and forth needs to end. It's clear that JM wants this to keep going on and on and on. You made your point that you "support" Michael yet you're clearly wanting his legacy to fade but you don't want to admit that to yourself so you keep going off on people to make yourself feel superiority over the fact that you don't love MJ as much as you think you allegedly do. I get that you've been to concerts and had posters up and the whole shebang but you clearly don't feel that same love anymore if you're more concerned about long term effects of a bullsh*t documentary that you could only access if you paid $12.99/month for it. Every inch of that documentary is exploded at this point and they will no longer be able to distribute it not long from now.

If you want to be delusional and believe that this will affect MJ long term then go right ahead and take an exit out of this forum because I won't stand to tolerate this sh*t anymore. It's one thing for MJ to be attacked out in the wild but it's a completely offensive thing to have it happen in an MJ-safe space.

 

[PoP]

This back and forth needs to end. It's clear that JM wants this to keep going on and on and on. You made your point that you "support" Michael yet you're clearly wanting his legacy to fade but you don't want to admit that to yourself so you keep going off on people to make yourself feel superiority over the fact that you don't love MJ as much as you think you allegedly do. I get that you've been to concerts and had posters up and the whole shebang but you clearly don't feel that same love anymore if you're more concerned about long term effects of a bullsh*t documentary that you could only access if you paid $12.99/month for it. Every inch of that documentary is exploded at this point and they will no longer be able to distribute it not long from now.

If you want to be delusional and believe that this will affect MJ long term then go right ahead and take an exit out of this forum because I won't stand to tolerate this sh*t anymore. It's one thing for MJ to be attacked out in the wild but it's a completely offensive thing to have it happen in an MJ-safe space.

I have to agree, what JM saying is absolutely not helpful at all and needs to smarten up.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

I think we all have a right to have opinions. JichaelMackson don't get me wrong dude. i like your posts. but your negatively makes me wanna stay away from you. i understand you have depression and have a negative personally as you claim. but can you like i don't know, try to be less negative?

 

[somewhereinthedark]

:clap::

This back and forth needs to end. It's clear that JM wants this to keep going on and on and on. You made your point that you "support" Michael yet you're clearly wanting his legacy to fade but you don't want to admit that to yourself so you keep going off on people to make yourself feel superiority over the fact that you don't love MJ as much as you think you allegedly do. I get that you've been to concerts and had posters up and the whole shebang but you clearly don't feel that same love anymore if you're more concerned about long term effects of a bullsh*t documentary that you could only access if you paid $12.99/month for it. Every inch of that documentary is exploded at this point and they will no longer be able to distribute it not long from now.

If you want to be delusional and believe that this will affect MJ long term then go right ahead and take an exit out of this forum because I won't stand to tolerate this sh*t anymore. It's one thing for MJ to be attacked out in the wild but it's a completely offensive thing to have it happen in an MJ-safe space.

Thank you!!!!

 

[Dunk96]

I think we all have a right to have opinions. JichaelMackson don't get me wrong dude. i like your posts. but your negatively makes me wanna stay away from you. i understand you have depression and have a negative personally as you claim. but can you like i don't know, try to be less negative?

It's one thing to have an opinion. But when the opinion is destructive in a place where you're supposed to escape the negativity towards MJ is pretty f*cked up if you ask me. But what do I know? I've only been here since 2007 lol.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

The mods said it's okay to have negative opinions but i don't know.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

There is an ignore user function if you go into your settings. If you prefer not to see certain posters posts then use this. It also saves posters who come here looking for news having to scroll through loads of comments about some pointless radio poll.