Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

[ChrisC]

The Zoe Kravitz thing is beyond shameful.

The Quincy remark is something quite common when it comes to Michael. No other great artist is treated quite as badly as Michael when it comes to this stuff.

I watched a documentary on the Hysteria album by Def Leppard yesterday and one of the guitarists spoke about how heavily they were influenced by a guitar part on one of their songs by the Police song Message in a Bottle. He goes on to play both riffs to show the similarities and openly states he emulated it. The track in no way rips off the Police and is presented as complimentary and as one great artist influencing another.

Whenever something like that crops up with MJ it's presented entirely different. That he's a fraud, that he stole other from other artists...that he's "Machiavellian" . People are looking for absolutely ANY reason to discredit and sully Michael's name.

It's actually complimentary because the treatment he suffered, and continues to suffer, is entirely unique to Michael Jackson and it doesn't take a genius to figure out why.

Michael's artistry is going to outlast all of this, I guarantee it. And when it does, in 100 and 200 years, these people are going to look incredibly foolish.

 

[terrell]

The Zoe Kravitz thing is beyond shameful.

The Quincy remark is something quite common when it comes to Michael. No other great artist is treated quite as badly as Michael when it comes to this stuff.

I watched a documentary on the Hysteria album by Def Leppard yesterday and one of the guitarists spoke about how heavily they were influenced by a guitar part on one of their songs by the Police song Message in a Bottle. He goes on to play both riffs to show the similarities and openly states he emulated it. The track in no way rips off the Police and is presented as complimentary and as one great artist influencing another.

Whenever something like that crops up with MJ it's presented entirely different. That he's a fraud, that he stole other from other artists...that he's "Machiavellian" . People are looking for absolutely ANY reason to discredit and sully Michael's name.

It's actually complimentary because the treatment he suffered, and continues to suffer, is entirely unique to Michael Jackson and it doesn't take a genius to figure out why.

Michael's artistry is going to outlast all of this, I guarantee it. And when it does, in 100 and 200 years, these people are going to look incredibly foolish.

They look foolish now.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Its belittling mj as an artist aswell as a human being. Racism cant be as obvious as it used to be. Its more underhanded. downplay his talent by lieing about who wrote and created music. Belittle him as human being. Turning someone into a subhuman makes them easier to lynch.

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

Other TV companies are pulling out of KM contracts, which I'd think means that there is not much chance of them recovering from here, even if the court doesn't impose a 'winding up' order:

Endemol Shine Group Cancels Kew Media Contracts, As Channel 5 Co-Production Deal Breaks Down

EXCLUSIVE: Endemol Shine Group and ViacomCBS network Channel 5 have become the latest companies to sever ties with Kew Media Distribution (KMD) as the embattled TV sales house edges closer to collapse.

KMD was responsible for selling Agatha And The Curse Of Ishtar and Agatha And The Death of X (working title), a pair of Agatha Christie-inspired dramas Channel 5 commissioned from Endemol Shine producer DSP. But Endemol Shine terminated the distribution deals last month and is in the process of handing the contracts over to Endemol Shine International.

The Agatha dramas formed part of a three-year co-production deal KMD inked with Channel 5 in September 2018, under which the distributor fronted a chunk of the production fee on selected scripted projects in exchange for taking international rights. Channel 5 does not expect to draw on the financing arrangement again, meaning the deal is effectively dead.

Deadline understands that around six dramas were funded under the co-production agreement, and a number of the producers involved are seeking to extricate themselves from the KMD distribution contracts, much like Endemol Shine. This includes Chalkboard TV, which made the critically acclaimed Cold Call, and Clink producer LA Productions.

Sources have said that the producers involved are not out of pocket. The Channel 5 co-production deal was structured so that KMD recouped its costs first, and then took a fee on international sales after breaking even. It is understood that none of the Channel 5 projects reached the stage where they were cash positive. Furthermore, any agreed sales should be passed over by KMD to a new distributor.

As Deadline revealed earlier this month, KMD is on the precipice of closure as it stares down the barrel of a winding-up order. A court will decide next month if the company is liquidated and its assets sold off. It follows KMD’s parent company, Kew Media Group, being delisted from the Toronto Stock Exchange last month after defaulting on its credit facility because it filed “inaccurate” financial information.

Like Endemol Shine, other companies are seeking to untangle themselves from KMD. This includes Amos Pictures, which used KMD to sell HBO/Channel 4 film Leaving Neverland internationally.

https://deadline.com/2020/02/endemol-shine-cancels-kew-media-contract-channel-5-deal-1202863059/

What goes around, comes around. I love this.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Its belittling mj as an artist aswell as a human being. Racism cant be as obvious as it used to be. Its more underhanded. downplay his talent by lieing about who wrote and created music. Belittle him as human being. Turning someone into a subhuman makes them easier to lynch.

This is exactly what’s going on. And as a new fan, who hasn’t paid much attention to MJ at all before 2019, I can say it’s painfully obvious once you begin to see it.

 

[PoP]

Other TV companies are pulling out of KM contracts, which I'd think means that there is not much chance of them recovering from here, even if the court doesn't impose a 'winding up' order:

Endemol Shine Group Cancels Kew Media Contracts, As Channel 5 Co-Production Deal Breaks Down

EXCLUSIVE: Endemol Shine Group and ViacomCBS network Channel 5 have become the latest companies to sever ties with Kew Media Distribution (KMD) as the embattled TV sales house edges closer to collapse.

KMD was responsible for selling Agatha And The Curse Of Ishtar and Agatha And The Death of X (working title), a pair of Agatha Christie-inspired dramas Channel 5 commissioned from Endemol Shine producer DSP. But Endemol Shine terminated the distribution deals last month and is in the process of handing the contracts over to Endemol Shine International.

The Agatha dramas formed part of a three-year co-production deal KMD inked with Channel 5 in September 2018, under which the distributor fronted a chunk of the production fee on selected scripted projects in exchange for taking international rights. Channel 5 does not expect to draw on the financing arrangement again, meaning the deal is effectively dead.

Deadline understands that around six dramas were funded under the co-production agreement, and a number of the producers involved are seeking to extricate themselves from the KMD distribution contracts, much like Endemol Shine. This includes Chalkboard TV, which made the critically acclaimed Cold Call, and Clink producer LA Productions.

Sources have said that the producers involved are not out of pocket. The Channel 5 co-production deal was structured so that KMD recouped its costs first, and then took a fee on international sales after breaking even. It is understood that none of the Channel 5 projects reached the stage where they were cash positive. Furthermore, any agreed sales should be passed over by KMD to a new distributor.

As Deadline revealed earlier this month, KMD is on the precipice of closure as it stares down the barrel of a winding-up order. A court will decide next month if the company is liquidated and its assets sold off. It follows KMD’s parent company, Kew Media Group, being delisted from the Toronto Stock Exchange last month after defaulting on its credit facility because it filed “inaccurate” financial information.

Like Endemol Shine, other companies are seeking to untangle themselves from KMD. This includes Amos Pictures, which used KMD to sell HBO/Channel 4 film Leaving Neverland internationally.

https://deadline.com/2020/02/endemol-shine-cancels-kew-media-contract-channel-5-deal-1202863059/

The sweet smell of another victory.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

This is exactly what’s going on. And as a new fan, who hasn’t paid much attention to MJ at all before 2019, I can say it’s painfully obvious once you begin to see it.

Yeah its been going on for decades. They arent his kids cause he hates his race and who would want to sleep with that frea*

 

[ChrisC]

They look foolish now.

Only to us, by and large. That's why they feel quite safe in doing it.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Yeah its been going on for decades. They arent his kids cause he hates his race and who would want to sleep with that frea*

Only to us, by and large. That's why they feel quite safe in doing it.

Since I’ve always avoided tabloids like the plague that they are, I was blissfully unaware of all of this. I bet there are more people like that out there who don’t pay attention to any of that crap, and/or don’t feel involved enough to talk about it. It used to be entirely possible to be a casual admirer of MJ’s art without ever thinking for 5 minutes about all the hoopla that surrounded his personal life, particularly because justice was always on his side.

 

[terrell]

This is exactly what’s going on. And as a new fan, who hasn’t paid much attention to MJ at all before 2019, I can say it’s painfully obvious once you begin to see it.

Exactly

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

Did I miss something or has BBC's Simon Warr been really supportive of Michael? On Twitter I saw that he's not doing too well health wise and he gets a lot of support from MJ fans. He's from Channel 4 as well. Didn't BBC and Channel 4 shit on MJ though? Or is it like Geraldo, shit channel but the person is supportive?

 

[wendijane]

What goes around, comes around. I love this.

OH SHIT! HA!:shutup:

 

[wendijane]

Looks like.. their ship is sinking faster than Eastenders then

 

[ozemouze]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">1/11 So <a href="https://twitter.com/hulu?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@hulu</a> have aired a new TV series starring <a href="https://twitter.com/ZoeKravitz?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ZoeKravitz</a> (daughter of <a href="https://twitter.com/LennyKravitz?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@LennyKravitz</a> &amp; Lisa Bonet). It features what I can only describe as the most uncomfortable &amp; downright cringeworthy scene ever, where her character along with <a href="https://twitter.com/DaVineJoy?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@DaVineJoy</a> viciously slanders <a href="https://twitter.com/michaeljackson?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@michaeljackson</a> <a href="https://t.co/JcRa7l0yGW">pic.twitter.com/JcRa7l0yGW</a></p>&mdash; Seány (@SeanyKane) <a href="https://twitter.com/SeanyKane/status/1229904551886675969?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 18, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
LOL at this pompous slogan. The good old "know-it-all underground music store seller opinionist" trope. Who of course know better then you, have better taste than you, and are very original! Too bad this "originality" is just the listing of the obligatory works of the decades-old pop/rock canon they never dare to challenge.

And of course one of the characters wears a Lou Reed shirt at some point - nothing against Reed, it's just that these kind of cliché characters always have to wear these kind of shirts. You know, because they are so knowledgeable at music and so original!

I guess this show is cringeworthy even without that MJ scene...

 

[ozemouze]

The Quincy remark is something quite common when it comes to Michael. No other great artist is treated quite as badly as Michael when it comes to this stuff.

Very true. It was a further way to discredit MJ when after the success of Thriller he couldn't be ignored anymore (never mind he wrote 3 of the best/most successful songs on the album...). Unfortunately for the advertisers of this narrative came the release of some of the home demos and documentaries looking into MJ's creative process...

And it's not to take away from Quincy Jones, his influence to the music world is enormous (including jazz and soundtracks), but his importance regarding MJ's work is artificially magnified with an agenda.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Did I miss something or has BBC's Simon Warr been really supportive of Michael? On Twitter I saw that he's not doing too well health wise and he gets a lot of support from MJ fans. He's from Channel 4 as well. Didn't BBC and Channel 4 shit on MJ though? Or is it like Geraldo, shit channel but the person is supportive?

He&#8217;s the author of &#8220;Presumed Guilty&#8221;, a book that addresses the issue of false allegations, specifically in the UK. Not sure what he said about MJ, though.

 

[ozemouze]

Did I miss something or has BBC's Simon Warr been really supportive of Michael? On Twitter I saw that he's not doing too well health wise and he gets a lot of support from MJ fans. He's from Channel 4 as well. Didn't BBC and Channel 4 shit on MJ though? Or is it like Geraldo, shit channel but the person is supportive?

He&#8217;s the author of &#8220;Presumed Guilty&#8221;, a book that addresses the issue of false allegations, specifically in the UK. Not sure what he said about MJ, though.

I'm not sure if he said anything about just MJ in particular, but as his main focus on twitter is false accusations and its serious consequences, there were often interactions with MJ supporters under his tweets.

He was accused with historic CSA, tried and acquitted (I guess that's the force behind his mission to help others with similar situations and raise awareness for the topic in the public): https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-suffolk-29712967

It's a sad news about his declining health.

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

That Zoe Kravitz has a lot to learn about life. **** her.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

I'm not sure if he said anything about just MJ in particular, but as his main focus on twitter is false accusations and its serious consequences, there were often interactions with MJ supporters under his tweets.

He was accused with historic CSA, tried and acquitted (I guess that's the force behind his mission to help others with similar situations and raise awareness for the topic in the public): https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-suffolk-29712967

It's a sad news about his declining health.

Yep, I didn&#8217;t know about his health issues &#8230; really sad.

Thanks for the info, I&#8217;ll put his book on my reading list. It&#8217;s heartbreaking that these things are happening.

This is what he said when he was asked about MJ, btw.:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I honestly don&#8217;t know very much about the issue. I&#8217;ve not seen the film, so can&#8217;t give an opinion on it. Also, the US legal system is so different to ours. My current focus is on the plague of false allegations &amp; wrongful convictions in Britain.</p>&mdash; Simon Warr (@bbcsimonwarr) <a href="https://twitter.com/bbcsimonwarr/status/1172607726809210880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 13, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[ozemouze]

This is what he said when he was asked about MJ, btw.:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I honestly don’t know very much about the issue. I’ve not seen the film, so can’t give an opinion on it. Also, the US legal system is so different to ours. My current focus is on the plague of false allegations & wrongful convictions in Britain.</p>— Simon Warr (@bbcsimonwarr) <a href="https://twitter.com/bbcsimonwarr/status/1172607726809210880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 13, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Thanks for looking it up! That's a very fair stance everyone should follow when they don't have enough information/motive to research further: just refrain from forming an uninformed jugdement - that's completely fine.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

They look foolish now.

Hahahahaha exactly.

The Zoe Kravitz thing is beyond shameful.

The Quincy remark is something quite common when it comes to Michael. No other great artist is treated quite as badly as Michael when it comes to this stuff.

I watched a documentary on the Hysteria album by Def Leppard yesterday and one of the guitarists spoke about how heavily they were influenced by a guitar part on one of their songs by the Police song Message in a Bottle. He goes on to play both riffs to show the similarities and openly states he emulated it. The track in no way rips off the Police and is presented as complimentary and as one great artist influencing another.

Whenever something like that crops up with MJ it's presented entirely different. That he's a fraud, that he stole other from other artists...that he's "Machiavellian" . People are looking for absolutely ANY reason to discredit and sully Michael's name.

It's actually complimentary because the treatment he suffered, and continues to suffer, is entirely unique to Michael Jackson and it doesn't take a genius to figure out why.

Michael's artistry is going to outlast all of this, I guarantee it. And when it does, in 100 and 200 years, these people are going to look incredibly foolish.

Quincy did a lot rude stuff to Michael in the past. but i agree with his remark here. when it comes to Michael get ready because there gonna be a lot people saying crap about him. it's been 10 years since he pass and he still is one of best musician of all time. no one hasn't got on his level yet. and it bothers them. i can say last year woke up people. so that's good.

while Quincy did do a lot of rude stuff to Michael. we can't deny the fact he did help Michael with his 3 of albums. so i do thank him for helping him but he still wrong what he has done to Michael in the past.

If Wade made it, anyone can

with all the crap he done. i don't he will ever make it. and if so that's very sad.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Younger viewers who haven't read much into the case will take their word for granted and just run with it until someone challenges them.

They been doing for decades since those lies came out. i'm glad that their are younger people and children knows who MJ was and is. thanks to the older gen and their grandparents.

i don't even watch TV anymore. nowadays they just trying to push subjects that people don't agree with or make someone look bad etc. TV not the same anymore.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Sadly Paris apparently follows her. Can't imagine her being exactly thrilled with such BS about her own dad.

That's so sad. this really goes to show ya that not everyone is your friend and will stab in the back if you're not careful. i wish her the best of luck. prince and bigi need to be careful as well.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Many of those cases were proven. That is the difference with MJ. MJ still was treated far worst and more investigated.

sad thing is he didn't do anything.

neither will i

If Wenstein gets acquitted, I will no longer trust the American justice system anymore.

Me either.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

I'm glad Michael is innocent. which i already knew years ago. i'm glad no child got hurt or anything. i'm glad he when to court etc and told the truth. people who want him to be guilty are haters. they hate Michael. but it best to ignore and just keep defending him because that's the right thing to do.

also those are Michael children. i don't know why people keep saying their not. they have his features and everything.

 

[ChrisC]

And it's not to take away from Quincy Jones, his influence to the music world is enormous (including jazz and soundtracks), but his importance regarding MJ's work is artificially magnified with an agenda.

Quincy is famous on the level that he is, BECAUSE of Michael. There I said it.

The generation depicted in this clearly awful television show know Quincy because of his work with Michael Jackson, by and large. I do not mean to undermine Quincy (unlike the man himself I give credit where credit is due) but there's no way his other work would make him as famous as he is with people born in the 80's and onwards.

And I think that's partly why Quincy is so aggrieved all these years. His obit, if written by someone who isn't trying to undermine MJ, will say Thriller.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Quincy was very famous for his work pre mj. But that work wasnt know on a worldwide mainstream level. It was very much kept in his genre. Mj took him to world wide level because of his work with him.that overshadowed his own work and imo made him bitter and twisted. Hes like john landis in that way. His work with mj overshadowed his own and that annoyed him to put it nicely! I always remember a programe in the uk about heathrow airport.a fly on the wall. Mj was shown in it a few times.other celbs aswell. Quincy was shown in it arriving and the in house pap was asked who he was by staff. No one in the uk knew who he was.as to be expected unless you are a jazz follower or mj fan. The pap said hes the guy who worked on mjs albums. Sums it up.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Ouch.

 

[analogue]

Quincy is famous on the level that he is, BECAUSE of Michael. There I said it.

The generation depicted in this clearly awful television show know Quincy because of his work with Michael Jackson, by and large. I do not mean to undermine Quincy (unlike the man himself I give credit where credit is due) but there's no way his other work would make him as famous as he is with people born in the 80's and onwards.

And I think that's partly why Quincy is so aggrieved all these years. His obit, if written by someone who isn't trying to undermine MJ, will say Thriller.

Thank you. Michael was already a household name before Quincy ever came into the picture

 

[ozemouze]

Quincy was very famous for his work pre mj. But that work wasnt know on a worldwide mainstream level. It was very much kept in his genre. Mj took him to world wide level because of his work with him.that overshadowed his own work and imo made him bitter and twisted. Hes like john landis in that way. His work with mj overshadowed his own and that annoyed him to put it nicely! I always remember a programe in the uk about heathrow airport.a fly on the wall. Mj was shown in it a few times.other celbs aswell. Quincy was shown in it arriving and the in house pap was asked who he was by staff. No one in the uk knew who he was.as to be expected unless you are a jazz follower or mj fan. The pap said hes the guy who worked on mjs albums. Sums it up.

Exactly. Funny you mentioned John Landis too, as personally I knew both of them independently from MJ (for film buffs they are unavoidable, plus QJ produced some quite accessible jazz tunes for the general public as well, not just for die-hard jazz fans). But you're right they are famous/recognised mostly in their own fields. However their bitterness is a bit incomprehensible, why weren't they just happy about the bigger exposure? If anything, they profited from their association with MJ, not the other way around. And I'm sure quite a lot of MJ fans bought QJ albums initially because of their fandom but ended up enjoying them - looks like a win-win situation fore me...