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Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Janet has refused to give HBO any interviews and being interviewed by HBO was part of her induction. Nothing the Anti-Jackson would have liked more at this point than Janet refusing to show up for her induction it would have been another opportunity for them to say she wants to bully us into defending her guilty brother but we are not going to back down from supporting the victims.
 
Soundmind said:
Janet has refused to give HBO any interviews and being interviewed by HBO was part of her induction. Nothing the Anti-Jackson would have liked more at this point than Janet refusing to show up for her induction it would have been another opportunity for them to say she wants to bully us into defending her guilty brother but we are not going to back down from supporting the victims.
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Still... not saying anything publicly to support your brother and then showing up on HBO is not a good look at all.
 
Soundmind;4252545 said:
The amazing TSCM strikes again

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The permit to begin construction of Neverland train station was approved SEPT. 2, 1993.More permits were granted during development including for final bay windows on JANUARY 13, 1994.Chief construction done from Sep. 93—Jan. 94.2nd floor was 12x16.-Receipts- #MJInnocent
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Great Job.
Now it would be also great to also ask someone like an Neverland employee who had eccess to the room above the train station when it was fully furnished with the bed.
Is it confirmed that there really was a bed?

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Why don't they release the full testemony from the Safechucks and the Robsons from 1993?
It is time!
 
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Soundmind said:
Janet has refused to give HBO any interviews and being interviewed by HBO was part of her induction. Nothing the Anti-Jackson would have liked more at this point than Janet refusing to show up for her induction it would have been another opportunity for them to say she wants to bully us into defending her guilty brother but we are not going to back down from supporting the victims.
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I guess this intruduction in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame was the reason why she didn't say anything about LN until now.
She didn't want to bring this huge important historic honar in danger when there is this big conspiricy against MJ and her family in the U.S.
But now we will hear something from her in the next days.
I am sure.
 
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Staffordshire Bullterrier;4252505 said:
Then it seems to me you didn't check all the very important information that is out there. Safechuck actually has a very clear motive for doing this, as with so many things it's money. His father's family business was being sued.

And during LN, can you truly say he looks sincere? Emotionless he explains all these horrible acts but then right at the end he puts on this horrible annoying grin, right before putting back on that fake victim face again. He's incredibly easy to see through actually.

You really have to see that one video where we see actual abuse victims being compared to these two opportunists. The difference is striking, it's just insane. But for some reason the video doesn't work for a lot of people, I can still see it though.

https://youtu.be/hFdnhmRpdFE

Count on that all his lies, his changing stories, messed up timelines, nah man.

If you've also see Debunking Neverland, then I genuinely cannot understand that someone would still be even having slight doubts. Not saying that about you, just in general.
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You are correct, but again when you take Safechuck’s contradictions. Not one of them at their own is a killer blow. If he wants money, that makes sense as I previously said, if he doesn’t act like other victims then that also doesn’t prove much since people tend to behave in different ways. The timeline discrepancies can also be reasoned as the person is recalling events from 25 years, so it’s possible he made mistook a date or two.

It’s when you add all these pieces together that his story gets shaky since the holes stick up. And this is, in my opinion, this community’s strong point, is that they compound the lies together, and we should continue to do that.

The train station contradiction is probably the biggest blow, bigger than all the previous ones combined. Safechuck claims something that is simply impossible. Much like wade’s dinner that happened after his testimony but claims that it was his motive to lie at the stand. These are the strong contradictions the prove, if nothing else, that they aren’t being truthful.
 
Somebody posted these in FB. Building permits of the train station from Sept 1993 - January 1994

55563322_10156547165966622_5657072966555402240_o.jpg


55704714_10156547166111622_4925509941487206400_o.jpg

55604976_10156547167181622_4296453685396897792_o.jpg
 
I wonder if all these proven lies like the train station can be of some use for thr lawsuit against HBO. Probably not because it's not a lawsuit against the two liars, but in what other ways can they use it? It's just crazy the amount of lies being told in this filth but at the same time partly ruining this man's legacy.

I don't know much about legal stuff but when is there finally ground for the estate to sue these two shits on? I'm gonna tear my goddamn hair out of my head if they get away with this, that would be horrible, and unnecessary. Them getting away with it, that is.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
They can use it to show malice. That they didnt even do the most basic research.
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Well I mean this is what happens when you spew BS for four hours straight. Not even the most rigerous research can provide a 4 hour bullet proof lie without messing up a few times.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
They can use it to show malice. That they didnt even do the most basic research.
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Good point! Hopefully those things will get them into trouble, because HBO should only be the start really.

As for Janet, I can understand that some fans are like "wtf" at this. Not publicly showing support for her brother but is appearing on a photo with the HBO logo. I don't doubt that she believes her brother though.
 
ASIS said:
Well I mean this is what happens when you spew BS for four hours straight. Not even the most rigerous research can provide a 4 hour bullet proof lie without messing up a few times.
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What I would like to see:

1. Estate sues HBO
2. HBO sues film producers
3. Film producers sue Dan Reed
4. Dan Reed sues R&S
 
Watch an very interesting part in this video at around 25:00:




You can find there an interesting signed deposition of MJ himself perhaps from the Victor G. Case were he said " I have not lived in California since seven years, dating back to aproxenetly 1993. I came back to calfornia infrecently but not at all regually.
My Deposition case was taken place in New York were I was living at this time."
 
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There are reporting that Okrah has deleted all videos of Leaving Never land from her channels.
 
I regularly Google 'Michael Jackson'. Today is the first time since this all broke when the main stories have not been negative. The current stories are either about the claims being debunked or people defending Michael. Is it too early to wonder if the tide is turning?
 
Word Smith Sr said:
Does it mean she now believes that Wade and James are liars ? Or maybe too many thumbs down ?
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She has known they are lying since day one. The fans are after her, but I do not know what does that mean really. Whatever she is being attacked on all her social accounts. Snake bitch
 
Click on so they know theres a market for positive articles. And spread

Metro article: "Safechuck's Allegations Have Major Flaws"

metro.co.uk/2019/03/30/james-safechucks-allegations-michael-jackson-major-flaws-claims-biographer-9062642/
 
WildStyle said:
I'm not saying she doesn't support his innocence. I'm saying in my opinion it is a weak move on her behalf. Just my opinion.
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Disagree.

Big Michael and Janet fan here; this whole thing puts her in a very precarious position from a PR standpoint.

What you want from her (an explicit, pulpit endorsement of her brother) would literally pour fuel on the flames and would be exactly what feeds the negative headlines.

She clearly supports her brother, performs 'Scream' all the time (with his vocals), and has made her position on him clear several times. But is it fair of her to walk into the firing line to get brownie points for doing so?

Let's keep it 100, she's the most relevant Jackson alive and in many ways is carrying the contemporary torch for what the family represents. Her going down in flames during such a sensitive social climate (after the media storms she's already face e.g. Super Bowl) doesn't help her (and all she's personally worked hard for) or the Jackson legacy (by proxy).

I say she should continue to do her, perform Scream, and give the subtle nods she does to show her support.

Her still standing in such a ruthless industry is the ultimate win -- for her and the Jackson legacy overall.
 
Is there a full transcript of LN that I can read? Now I have a dear friend of mine who apparently has watched it and believes those liars. He wanted to send condoleances to me about the shock and sadness if I have seen it. I have refuted with sending Debunking Neverland, Wade Robson The Real Story, news about the train station and Grand Canyon, facts about the trial, police and FBI-investigation, Wades relationship with Brandi, mentioned about those dismissed lawsuits and their appeal and article about Disbelieving Neverland. He said that he will watch those clips before changing opinion. He also said at the same time you cannot direct this so good documentary and these victims (as he claims they are) are the best actors if they are lying. Why would they expose themselves for the sake of money he asks. He challenges me to see the film so that I become aware and see the "truth". I don't want to see it as it is emotionally manipulative but instead it would be better for me to read a transcript of it. Or what do you guys think I should do?
 
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Wormsby: Michael Jackson documentary, &#8216;Leaving Neverland,&#8217; not credible

https://www.birminghamtimes.com/201...vOFQLu8bjcWhRlNi8jzJzkjuq8j7RyqOvK7ivSeMAJAfg

It was really difficult for me to watch &#8220;Leaving Neverland&#8221; as a person who grew up the consummate Michael Jackson fan, but one who is still willing to face facts. Director Dan Reed&#8217;s piece is a shameful presentation of contested facts presented in a context to have them received as proven truth. The two main witnesses in the documentary, and the only people to claim abuse first hand, Wade Robson and James Safechuck, have both testified in court, under oath on multiple previous occasions that Michael Jackson never molested them. Their story did not change until Jackson died.

During my undergraduate days in college I was involved in a false identification case involving the robbery of a jewelry store. The store employee initially identified me as the suspect and I was arrested and held in jail overnight. Other than also being a black man, I looked nothing like the tall, muscular, black man with a shaved scalp who was ultimately charged with the crime.

When the case went to trial the defense attorney described how the store employee identified me and how the employee identified the person charged with the crime. In both statements the witness said she was sure beyond a reasonable doubt that the person she identified was the perpetrator. The jury came back with a verdict of not guilty because they felt the witness had no credibility.

I think the same goes for those two making charges against Jackson. They both testified under oath at the trials of young men who said they had experienced abuse at the hands of Jackson and said Jackson had never done anything inappropriate with them.

I also agree with those who claim this is yet another case of the public lynching of a successful black male figure. I do not know and cannot claim that Michael Jackson is innocent of all the things he is accused of, but I do know that he was tried in a court of law, that included sworn testimony from those now accusing him while he was living, and he was acquitted. And the man behind this new so-called documentary presented nothing credible or new in making charges against a man who has been unable to defend himself for more than 10 years.

And the only witnesses to justify this public lynching are two people who have already had their day in court and whose suddenly revised testimony would not be accepted in any court in this land. As a community we should be outraged. Or at least that&#8217;s the way I see it.
 
What is going on here, the media actually reporting that the program (i refuse to say documentary) has major flaws, well, i'll be dammed! It slowly feels like the tide is turning.
 
I personally feel like people need to give Janet a break, I am actually happy she has not responded to this crap yet.. Janet speaking would only do 2 things.1. Give the media headlines to use her words against her, highlighting how 'of course she defends her brother'.. They would turn her honest thoughts to a idiotic family opinion that has to say what she does just to protect the Jackson image, The Estate, and her career.. They'll just twist it!2. It would give the doc free publicity, her speaking is a verbal billboard to millions that have not cared enough to listen yet.. I would say, it would be best for her to speak when all air dates are a thing of the past (people wont tune in to watch it), and it would be nice if she 'slam dunks' her statement with a fact like the train station story.. That would get people to google THAT story and see the blatant lie instead of looking for the doc.
 
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