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Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Gaz said:
Speed_Demon87 who??? sorry...I have just scoured the whole forum and I don't see a single post nor even an account for whoever this person is...:laughing:
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Thank you! Hallelujah!
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
Great podcast (15 minutes long) with John Ziegler talking about LN. Really good stuff. But, I think he has one error at the end.

He talks about the "pay off" in the 90s and says that the insurance company did it and Michael objected to this. Now I'm confused, wasn't it actually with Mike's full consent?

https://whas.iheart.com/featured/te...-on-fraudulent-leaving-neverland-documentary/
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The insurance company didnt pay it. Ppl thought he did because of oxmans declaration but it was false
 
magic said:
I am not good with all the lawyer stuff. I knew before about what you wrote but can you explain? Why it is bad to have a civil trial first? Why didn't judge deny civil trial if it can't go before the criminal trial?
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If a civil case had gone first all sneddon would have done was sit in the courtroom hear all of mjs defence and build his criminal case around it.highly dangerous and against the constitution right to a fair trial. the law was changed later to beable to stop a civil case happening b4 a crim one.Mj also lost 4 important motions which made it even more impossible. Sneddon would have quite happily built his case around mjs defence like he did in 03 when the timeline of abuse kept changing because the dates the arvizos claimed abuse mj was not even there!
 
KOPV;4252109 said:
small update from the Razorfist interview, Taj is entertaining the idea of a theatrical release with the docu-series.. He is not sure how he wants to distribute it, he does not want to sell it to a major network because it may not be handled with care..

I personally think theatrical is silly, MJ fans go to watch MJ movies in the theater, it needs to be easier accessable.
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I agree. Haters will not pay upwards of £10 to go to see a film exposing the truth on the MJ allegations, so the only audeince will be the MJ fans, most of whom ALREADY KNOW the truth. That is NOT the way to go.

The problem isn't about documenting the truth. The Truth is out there, and it always has been. We already have many, many amateur documentaries and videos on youtube that expose the lies but they do not help in the scheme of things. I personally have been arguing MJ's case on the net since I first got internet in '95.

The problem is about getting the exposure necessary to blast the truth into the mainstream.
To do that the documentary MUST be distributed by a major network, and it needs to be promoted, otherwise there is no point in doing it at all.

I understand that major distributors may decide they're not interested, or they may impose tight controls on the show. If he then feels it compromises his vision too much then Taj will be forced to look at other options, but if Taj deliberately avoids major networks then this will be a real shame.


EDIT: I just realise a MASSIVE problem with Taj's documentary.
Any network's legal team may dissuade them from showing the documentary. Why? Well aside from the twisted views of the #MeToo movement and the mess they can create, anti-defamation laws do protect Robson, Safechuck and Reed. That in itself may limit anything that can be said to denounce them and their show. Perhaps Taj has already realised that himself.
The playing field is far from even at this point. WR, JS, DR can say whatever crazy thing they want about MJ without ANY legal repercussion, while team MJ have to carefully navigate the law to counter their claims.

That is why the law MUST be changed.




Please sign this petition:


https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/protect-legacy-deceased-and-sanity-their-survivors
 
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horselightning said:
Ok that is it . this article in usa today is saying there is something wrong with people who think michael is inocent. i'm steamed can you believe this. of all the nerve.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life...ical-idols-defend-michael-jackson/3270259002/
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I've suspected this: pro-MJ people will be targeted next. Ad hominem attacks to discredit anyone who goes against the lynch mob.

I'm not a naive person, and never really expected fair treatment for MJ considering the sad state of affairs, but what's happening lately is going way too far, it's not just scary it's becoming dangerous.

At the same time it couldn't be more obvious it's media driven, not the general public's genuine opinion: LN was basically a flop, as regardless of their beliefs on the matter most people just won't care that much and clearly chose to move on, but the MSM (not just tabloids!) keeps clinging on bringing it up again and again whenever the hype seems to die down. Why?! Simple "sensationalism sells" is not a good enough answer at this level anymore.
 
It's funny (not really) how people love to say we defend Michael just because we're fans. But it's us being fans that made us go out and do real research on these allegations, and it was our research that made us come to the conclusion that Michael is innocent. I think it's really insulting to our intelligence that it's claimed we blindly defend Michael just because we like Billie Jean. And I can pretty much guarantee that none of us would ever support a child molester, no matter how good that persons music is.

And there are people who love to say that MJ fans are the unreasonable ones that won't listen, but in my own experience, I find it to be the other way around. Whenever someone asks me the typical questions like ''Why did he pay Jordan Chandler?'' and ''Why was he having sleepovers with little boys?'' and I then respond in a calm and civil way to those questions, people roll their eyes at me, they talk/yell over me, call me an idiot. But then it's me who's being the unreasonable one?
 
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analogue said:
It's funny (not really) how people love to say we defend Michael just because we're fans. But it's us being fans that made us go out and do real research on these allegations, and it was our research that made us come to the conclusion that Michael is innocent. I think it's really insulting to our intelligence that it's claimed we blindly defend Michael just because we like Billie Jean. And I can pretty much guarantee that none of us would ever support a child molester, no matter how good that persons music is.

And there are people who love to say that MJ fans are the unreasonable ones that won't listen, but in my own experience, I find it to be the other way around. Whenever someone asks me the typical questions like ''Why did he pay Jordan Chandler?'' and ''Why was he having sleepovers with little boys?'' and I then respond in a calm and civil way to those questions, people roll their eyes at me, they talk/yell over me, call me an idiot. But then it's me who's being the unreasonable one?
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I think the journalist Ziegler (sp??) was saying that there was a time when he would have dismissed us as blind and hysterical. But he realises now that we are well-informed and have to be in order to try and combat the crap that we face.
 
Brandy and Taj should really continue to give interviews together.
They harmonize so great and do a better Job and stronger job together in defending MJ and his legecy.
Their great harmony remembers me a little a bit of the great unbeatable Harmonie from the Jackson 5 when they were singing and dancing together with their great feeling for timeing in the good all days.
Brandy and Taj seames to be just like MJ absolutly great interlocutors and friends for people who can be so happy to be around them.
 
analogue said:
It's funny (not really) how people love to say we defend Michael just because we're fans. But it's us being fans that made us go out and do real research on these allegations, and it was our research that made us come to the conclusion that Michael is innocent. I think it's really insulting to our intelligence that it's claimed we blindly defend Michael just because we like Billie Jean. And I can pretty much guarantee that none of us would ever support a child molester, no matter how good that persons music is.

And there are people who love to say that MJ fans are the unreasonable ones that won't listen, but in my own experience, I find it to be the other way around. Whenever someone asks me the typical questions like ''Why did he pay Jordan Chandler?'' and ''Why was he having sleepovers with little boys?'' and I then respond in a calm and civil way to those questions, people roll their eyes at me, they talk/yell over me, call me an idiot. But then it's me who's being the unreasonable one?
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Yes your experience is not unusual.

when it comes to discussing MJ the world has gone mad.

Did you see that some journalist posted on Twitter that MJ had controlled the narrative for the past 35 years! Seriously! What on Earth was she smoking?? This woman WHO IS A JOURNALIST!! It is beyond outrageous and infuriating to read the media write something like that.

I have a real hard time understanding where the media is coming from.

I only see two options and to be honest both are incomprehesible.

(a) Are these people so vindictive, so evil that they knowingly destroy an innocent man, even when they're not being paid to do so?? (they even do it on their personal social media accounts).

OR

(b) are they so stupid that despite working in the most corrupt industry in the world (knowing that they write crap for a living and that it has been going on for years) they actually believe all the crap written about MJ?

Similarly celebrities, in particular the ones that have been around for decades, should know by now that the media is corrupt. Most will have been victim to inaccurate reporting and smear campaigns at some point, or at least have been friends with somebody else who was. So why do they (I'm looking at you Babs) feel the need to condemn a person based on no evidence?? They need to STFU!


Anyway, because of THE MEDIA CONTROLLING THE NARRATIVE over the last 35 years general public are so misinformed that they simply cannot open their mind to any other version of events.
I can understand it. They have seen every media outlet report the SAME repeated lies for decades. The media's story has been so wrong, but in a very consistent way, for so long.

It'll take some real effort to change attitudes
 
Have you guys heard of Angry Joe? He's a well known and popular videogame and movie reviewer on YouTube and he is on the side of the truth. He was in the comment section yesterday on YouTube during Razorfist's interview fighting back trolls.

Much respect to Joe for that! He already got comments on his Twitter like "Joe I need you to step away from this. This guy slept with children without parents supervision." and that kinda hilarious stuff.
 
jimbean;4252066 said:
LaToya explains why she accused her brother in the early 90´s
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Z8d4M3SRRYE" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Can someone who had actually a YouTube accound please beg the uploader to put # in the video description box like #LeavingNeverland #Michael Jackson #MJinnocent.... cause the viddo title shows no refereces to MJ, LN etc. So people will not find the video.

ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona;4252047 said:
A New reaction video to LN from A Sexual abuse survivor who is a therapist who works with sexual abuse victims who sees trough the acting of Wade and James:

[video=youtube;mjXihGSZs8E]
https://youtu.be/mjXihGSZs8E[/video]
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Why in gods name is this video now blocked. It was only the woman talking without showing any kind of copyright matirial I guess. But I didn't saw the last part of the video.
I hope someone will ask the woman to reupload it cause we need these kind review videos from experts on the subjects not from everday peple who are too lazy to do longer researches after they watched LN.
 
analogue said:
Debunking Neverland with Taj and Brandi Jackson
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I :heart: the idea to have Taj's rebuttal released in theaters. It's bold and ambitious. It also ascertains a certain level of independence. Taj thinks outside of the box. Everyone thinks you have to run to streaming networks. Why? I really like him. Personally, I'd spend my money to see it 10 times at the theater.
 
Oh great!
Dan Reed admitts himself that he was lying when he said in January that "LN is not about money"!

Watch this short video:


He can't kept his story staight like Wade & James!

Does someone know the interview where he said that LN is not about money?
 
wednesday said:
I :heart: the idea to have Taj's rebuttal released in theaters. It's bold and ambitious. It also ascertains a certain level of independence. Taj thinks outside of the box. Everyone thinks you have to run to streaming networks. Why? I really like him. Personally, I'd spend my money to see it 10 times at the theater.
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I think it would be maybe a better idea to show it in puplic viewing events on puplic squares in summer without people paying for it.
 
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ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona said:
Oh great!
Dan Reed admitts himself that he was lying when he said in January that "LN is not about money"!

Watch this short video:


He can't kept his story staight like Wade & James!

Does someone know the interview where he said that LN is not about money?
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The video cuts off but pretty sure he's talking about the Jackson's protecting their "cash cow" again. Not that it's all about them getting all of the estate's money. He's not dumb enough to say something like that.
 
Dan likes to cut out clips and take them out of context, dont see why we cant do the same
 
Dan Reed looks like he hasn't slept particularly well these past few days. I really do hope that the pressure breaks him down eventually and just comes out admitting he was used by more powerful people. Maybe Oprah would also lose a pound or two if that happens.
 
ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona said:
I think it would be maybe a petter idea to show it in puplic viewing events on puplic squares in summer without people paying for it.
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The best way to handle this is to beam it into peoples houses at prime time, and that should be the primary goal - anything else needs to be a fallback. No point in targeting the hardcore MJ fanbase - we already know the truth. Net benefit of that equals almost zero.
 
WildStyle said:
The video cuts off but pretty sure he's talking about the Jackson's protecting their "cash cow" again. Not that it's all about them getting all of the estate's money. He's not dumb enough to say something like that.
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Yeah, fans shouldn't be cutting things out of interviews, because then that makes us no better than Reed, Robson and Safechuck. And it makes it look like we're trying to hide something
 
analogue said:
Yeah, fans shouldn't be cutting things out of interviews, because then that makes us no better than Reed, Robson and Safechuck. And it makes it look like we're trying to hide something
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Agree 100%

We cannot be hypocrites.
We have enough evidence on our side without resorting to underhand tactics. we don't need it.

If people realise MJ fans are editing to appear more incriminating then they will not trust us. We need to earn and maintain trust by being honest and always presenting receipts to back our claims. THAT will help us win.

Dan Reed et al have NOT been honest or truthful in the things they said, or in the way the show was edited. They CANNOT present receipts because they have none.
 
Yomna Sameer , an egyptian doctor wrote an article about MJ : The Psychology of Michael Jackson: The Real Man behind the Mask
On Twitter:
I was not an MJ fan! I was neutral! As a professor of psychology am telling you all that a man who scored high in the virtues of VIA (an Analysis tool) cannot be a the one the media is talking about !
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https://medium.com/@yomna.sameer/the-psychology-of-michael-jackson-the-real-man-behind-the-mask-210e762c49dd?fbclid=IwAR18un3W6jkM3yx0Rfn1afC7CsXI74whO7um6OxqmnIEFuRhqNZDyuYQWDc
 

Listen to the laughter during the LN joke (at 1:44) compared to all the others. Sounds like 2 people forcing themselves to laugh. I haven't seen many hosts referencing LN. Doesn't seem to go over well. Seems lots of people either don't believe it or have no idea what it is.

I thought Trevor Noah would be someone who'd defend Michael. :no:
 
Someone on youtube mentioned that IMDB is clearing out some negitive reviews on LN.. If you have 5 minutes on your hand, post a factual negitive review on IMDB! That site is often used for movie info and reviews.
 
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