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Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Robbsaber01 said:
I agree. They should of come out in 2009. Jordan and Gavin just dont want to be exposed. Jordan coming forward would mean more IMO. I heard somewhere Evan got
cancer few years before his suicide? Or at least thats what his brother said. Regardless, karma is real. Jordan might say something when hes 80 if we're lucky.

Someone else in that Neogaf forum said that someone played TWYMMF at Gavins wedding and that he "shrugged and smiled".
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/rip-michael-jackson-1958-2009.366312/page-209#post-241819023

Heres a video of one of Gavins Classmates
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Oh wow, I see I actually got the last reply there before the thread was closed. I forgot that there were also some normal and sensible people on that forum back then.
 
Soundmind;4251651 said:
Stanley Katz, the psychiatrist who met Jordan Chandler, who testified in 2005, the one who oversaw the evaluation of the 300 so called victims at the Macmartin case and believed they were all victims but none was actually, did say that in his opinion MJ did not fit the paedophile profile he just acted like a young boy and did what young boys often do masturbate with each other!


In a taped June 2003 telephone interview, Katz, 55, gave a Santa Barbara sheriff’s investigator his “off the record” opinion of the 46-year-old entertainer.
Jackson, Katz told Det. Paul Zelis, “is a guy that’s like a 10-year-old child. And, you know, he’s doing what a 10-year-old would do with his little buddies. You know, they’re gonna jack off, watch movies, drink wine, you know.
And, you know, he doesn’t even really qualify as a pedophile. He’s really just this regressed 10-year-old.”
“Yeah, yeah, I agree,” replied Zelis.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/jackson-case-psychologist
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Is it normal for ten-year-olds to drink wine together? That was a weird thing to say!

But other than that, good find!
 
Robbsaber01 said:
Heres a video of one of Gavins Classmates
Click to expand...


Any other sources for this? Who is "Marcy Saylor"?
This video doesn't look all too credible.
There's no real interview, twitter screenshots or anything. The short bad quality telephone snippet kind of sounds like the voice of the girl who runs that channel.
And she also made videos like "Michael Jackson accepted Jesus as his Savior" :rolleyes:

Let's please stay with FACTS. This kind of fan fiction just plays into the hands of those that portrait all MJ supporters as crazy.
 
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MJTruth said:
H&m are STILL selling clothing featuring acts such as David Bowie and gene Simmons ( kiss) who have been accused of sex crimes, but they removed mj clothing for sexual allegations. This cannot be allowed to continue. Either they should reinstate mj or remove clothing featuring acts accused of crimes. If they don't then they're being hypocritical and ignoring the alleged victims. Surely there can be NO legitimate excuse for their hypocrisy. I urge you all to pursue h&m to provide a proper response to this, and hopefully cause them to take action
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And Led Zeppelin as well.

Just for the record, because the irony of it bugs me: the allegation against Bowie is quite questionable but still accepted as fact, while Jimmy Page - whose relationship with the same underage groupie is well-documented - is not common talk at all. Just wanted to emphasize this (and I think we should choose our words carefully when mentioning Bowie in this context) because he's also used as a distraction since his death with unproven allegation unfairly presented as fact.

Your main point about the obvious double standard and hypocrisy is spot on though: if they want to cancel artists who were being accused, either cancel all of them, or - even better - start taking seriously the presumption of innocence and forget the "cancel culture" which is dumb to begin with. But they can't have it both way.
 
Electro said:
Any other sources for this? Who is "Marcy Saylor"?
This video doesn't look all too credible.
There's no real interview, twitter screenshots or anything. The short bad quality telephone snippet kind of sounds like the voice of the girl who runs that channel.
And she also made videos like "Michael Jackson accepted Jesus as his Savior" :rolleyes:
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I cant say how credible she is. Full video is 1hour. I only posted because the same people defending MJ on Neogaf shared. "Out there" or not at least her videos are positive. If theres any more info on it that would help.
 
Soundmind said:
It is heavily covered online. How it is not everywhere? Yesterday alone there were tens of articles on Barbara comments. Since she attacked MJ today there will be more to come today.
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I have news update on my phone, and outside of the first day, NL isn't mentioned and it isn't mentioned on MSNBC or CNN who is too busy covering Trump. So it isn't 'everywhere'. And Barbara's comments would have been covered since her point was both disturbing and disgusting no matter which side of this debate you're on, no so much about the doc itself.
 
Cinnamon234 said:
Exactly. Sitting around not saying anything hasn't helped in the past and it certainly isn't helping now. Does the estate not fully understand the extent of the backlash?

Being silent right now is not the answer.
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The 'blacklash' is mostly media created. If we got by sells, Michael is actually selling more as a form of support for him.
 
Furienna said:
Dan got BURNED! :)
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Yes, all 4 of them were sceptical. I like the fact they all pointed out that the mother's were weird. They seemed to have done their research unlike a lot of the other interviews. I think it shows the press Taj and Brandi and the fans are doing is being picked up by people. Albeit slowly.
 
Just read on Twitter that the Arvizos actually begged for Gavin to stay in MJ's room. The more you know eh. I have to admit I don't know every single detail from that case, not by a long shot.
 
Robbsaber01 said:
I cant say how credible she is. Full video is 1hour. I only posted because the same people defending MJ on Neogaf shared. "Out there" or not at least her videos are positive. If theres any more info on it that would help.
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Well some people willing to 2 proven liars like Wade and James.
 
Did anybody see that 50 second Youtbe video of Larry Nimmer showing how MJ's bedroom alarm worked?

It is soooo loud when somebody comes by the bedroom door downstairs before they even get to come into the room.

So you are telling me Gavins Buick sized little brother SOMEHOW MADE IT UP THE STAIRS AND SEEN WHAT HE SEENS WITHOUT IT GOING OFF?

lol
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
You can see how he has trouble finding some words during that interview. He's not used to interviews like these, ACTUAL interviews by real journalists.
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And that's the tragedy of it TBH: it's not that something outstanding, brilliant, once in a lifetime work of a genius job is needed to achieve this, just basic journalist task - but during decades MJ wasn't granted even the minimum of objective and fair coverage.

Let's take this LN farce: lies and contradictions are exposed almost every day, so the information is out there - still no big media outlet is reporting it. If people knew only fragments of it most will change their stance on MJ being guilty already - but journalists refuse to do their job and MJ isn't given a chance at all (with a very few notable exceptions).
 
G-B_24 said:
Did anybody see that 50 second Youtbe video of Larry Nimmer showing how MJ's bedroom alarm worked?

It is soooo loud when somebody comes by the bedroom door downstairs before they even get to come into the room.

So you are telling me Gavins Buick sized little brother SOMEHOW MADE IT UP THE STAIRS AND SEEN WHAT HE SEENS WITHOUT IT GOING OFF?

lol
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Star witnessed 99% of the molestation incidents MJ supposedly committed against his brother. With the Arvizos MJ always made sure there was a witness. LOL
 
ozemouze said:
And that's the tragedy of it TBH: it's not that something outstanding, brilliant, once in a lifetime work of a genius job is needed to achieve this, just basic journalist task - but during decades MJ wasn't granted even the minimum of objective and fair coverage.

Let's take this LN farce: lies and contradictions are exposed almost every day, so the information is out there - still no big media outlet is reporting it. If people knew only fragments of it most will change their stance on MJ being guilty already - but journalists refuse to do their job and MJ isn't given a chance at all (with a very few notable exceptions).
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That is why u keep posting on facebook, twitter, instagram. I think that is speading more than anything. Even with what Barbara said is not on tv (maybe tomorrow but CNN,MSNBC, etc is not talking about it). Thaat is why I was glad Diana twitted yesterday. people are going to go and see at Barbara and post facts inside her twitter.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
"Half of me you never will be so dont you feel threatened by me"

He doesnt believe them. He just thought he would have an easy walk to fame and success by attacking someone who cant fight back and knowing very well the rest of the media will quite happily cheer him on. He didnt realise we are here. People highly educated on every FACT from court documents and depos. Something he forgot to read. Thats if he has the intelligence to.. we will always be here. He should remember that
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Dan did not expect the fans to be intelligent. He didn't expect lawyers and paralegals, doctors, professional men and women to have looked and studied the cases. He fell for what the media made the fans out to be at the trial- a bunch of loonies standing out there with signs. He even called the fans a "cult" in his first interview with Sundance.

Well, surprise, surprise.
 
It feels as though the American media is scrambling for any scrap bad news that can help further their narrative. Yahoo still has one or two stories on their page about this saga and it is never a pro-Michael story.

But moving on from that.

I feel alot of people's issue with Michael has been about the fact that something had to be wrong with him. He was too talented, achieved too much (considering his background) and seemed to be a great, generous person. Human nature - pun intended - meant that people had to find fault. It seems to be a part of our collective DNA. It is why we gossip. And I also find that some people who are ugly on the inside see ugliness in Michael. They cannot comprehend his light. *shrug*.

Another thing is that people now lack critical thinking skills. A serious failure of the education system and the way the media is now structured and functioning.

I believe that over time this will be a serious discussion and I hope when it is that Michael and the way he was treated and represented is a part of that.
 
G-B_24 said:
Did anybody see that 50 second Youtbe video of Larry Nimmer showing how MJ's bedroom alarm worked?

It is soooo loud when somebody comes by the bedroom door downstairs before they even get to come into the room.

So you are telling me Gavins Buick sized little brother SOMEHOW MADE IT UP THE STAIRS AND SEEN WHAT HE SEENS WITHOUT IT GOING OFF?
Click to expand...

For great details about the chandler and aviso case, people should absolutly watch this videos:

ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona said:
"Leaving Neverland: Take Two (Full Documentary HD" from MJUnreleased Mix
6.973 views on March 22 2019
It is based on past Podcast episodes from MJCast and Reason Bound which were recorded before the Leaving Neverland anouncement.


Very good interview with Legal Secretary Geraldine Huges from Nicoles View with interesting details about the 1993 case

Click to expand...

TheChosenOne said:
It feels as though the American media is scrambling for any scrap bad news that can help further their narrative. Yahoo still has one or two stories on their page about this saga and it is never a pro-Michael story.

But moving on from that.

I feel alot of people's issue with Michael has been about the fact that something had to be wrong with him. He was too talented, achieved too much (considering his background) and seemed to be a great, generous person. Human nature - pun intended - meant that people had to find fault. It seems to be a part of our collective DNA. It is why we gossip. And I also find that some people who are ugly on the inside see ugliness in Michael. They cannot comprehend his light. *shrug*.

Another thing is that people now lack critical thinking skills. A serious failure of the education system and the way the media is now structured and functioning.

I believe that over time this will be a serious discussion and I hope when it is that Michael and the way he was treated and represented is a part of that.
Click to expand...

There must be a worldwide big demonstration for Michael and against the evil, crule absolutly inhuman, unfair media tratment of MJ in all this decades on verdict day June 13 2019!
 
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The haters on twitter are so dumb. Why can't we have smart haters at least? :D
 
SmoothGangsta said:
Most of the comments on it are saying she shouldn't have tweeted it as well. Not looking good.
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Diana can tweet just like haters who know nothing want to tweet. Diana has alot of like so she is doing great. And some people come on there just to start drama. After Barbara and Jamie made their comment, Diana needed to make hers. If not, then EVERYBODY needs to shut up including the media. On other sites, Diana is being praised.
 
TheChosenOne said:
It feels as though the American media is scrambling for any scrap bad news that can help further their narrative. Yahoo still has one or two stories on their page about this saga and it is never a pro-Michael story.

But moving on from that.

I feel alot of people's issue with Michael has been about the fact that something had to be wrong with him. He was too talented, achieved too much (considering his background) and seemed to be a great, generous person. Human nature - pun intended - meant that people had to find fault. It seems to be a part of our collective DNA. It is why we gossip. And I also find that some people who are ugly on the inside see ugliness in Michael. They cannot comprehend his light. *shrug*.

Another thing is that people now lack critical thinking skills. A serious failure of the education system and the way the media is now structured and functioning.

I believe that over time this will be a serious discussion and I hope when it is that Michael and the way he was treated and represented is a part of that.
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And see, you can beat a dead horse for so long until the tide start to backfire.
 
Robbsaber01;4251661 said:
I cant say how credible she is. Full video is 1hour. I only posted because the same people defending MJ on Neogaf shared. "Out there" or not at least her videos are positive. If theres any more info on it that would help.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lmjQ8UUVv2I?rel=0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>
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She’s got a transcript on her website that is more coherent than the short video.

http://www.reflectionsonthedance.com/2005trialtruth.html
 
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