Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

This was really great and powerful from Siggy Jackson.
I have read somewhere that in Wade Lawsuit Wade said that he was only 14 times in Neverland and only 4 times MJ was also there.

Is this true?

 

[KOPV]

^ I was trying to get that confirmed..

* That it was stated (I thought it was by Joy?) that Wade went 14 times and Michael there 4....
* The whole 'honeymoon' at Euro Disney in 1988..

These are two things I'm STILL trying to get confirmed.. I would really like to start using these as facts.. if they are! lol Come on someones gotta know lol.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Have you read the depos. Might be in there

 

[KOPV]

^ I read them in full a while ago, than tried skimming through again recently trying to find those things.. didn't see it.. but than again I 'skimmed'.. It's too much to go through over and over after someone notices something I didn't lol! that fact sheet was pretty much what I gathered from my reading the first time... But everyone catches on to different things you know?

I think Ivy would be able to confirm or deny it.. Ivy kept info pretty dang detailed! Ivy just doesn't frequent here anymore.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Hi. Doing my usual check in.

Someone (maybe someones) do not need this 'documentary' to be a success but they need for it to be talked about and for that talk to lead the destruction of Michael's legacy.

The broadcast has led to underwhelming numbers but still it is being pushed. The three men are being pushed on Billboard. (Did Billboard publish the ppt from the Estate or did they just talk about receiving it?). And even though a lot of people haven't seen it, the discussion it seems to be pervasive. That seems to be the point.

If we could follow money and see where this leads back to you, I feel it would be a great start in changing the narrative.

As the saga plays out, we do have to be careful to stick to facts, not get fixated on trivial things.

 

[KOPV]

BTW that comment by Barbara does not help in anyway.. it's so annoying there are people like that!

 

[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

^ I was trying to get that confirmed..

* That it was stated (I thought it was by Joy?) that Wade went 14 times and Michael there 4....
* The whole 'honeymoon' at Euro Disney in 1988..

These are two things I'm STILL trying to get confirmed.. I would really like to start using these as facts.. if they are! lol Come on someones gotta know lol.

Yes I think, I also read this statment in combination with Joy Robson.

I mean did we really see Pictures of MJ and Wade in neverland in LN?

I remember when I watched a few parts of Wade in LN today that his Family said that they must give their film- and foto cameras to the security when they visted neverland (they said it when they discribed their first visit) but this didn't match with what siggy said in the potcast.
From Siggis description it seames that it was no problems that vistors had cameras and make pictures in Neverland for MJ.

As far as I have discovered it there were also no pictures with James and MJ in Neverland.

Is it correct that Wade said in his lawsuit that something sexually happened in the recording studio between Wade and MJ but in LN he said it all begin in Neverland when he was alone with MJ for 5 days?

 

[Soundmind]

According to Joy MJ was rarely at Neverland when they went there. She estimated that he was there with them only for a total of four times. Wade is claiming he was abused at MJ's hide out apartment and at multiple hotels I believe.

 

[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

According to Joy MJ was rarely at Neverland when they went there. She estimated that he was there with them only for a total of four times. Wade is claiming he was abused at MJ's hide out apartment and at multiple hotels I believe.

Have you seen LN compleatly?

 

[ozemouze]

Someone (maybe someones) do not need this 'documentary' to be a success but they need for it to be talked about and for that talk to lead the destruction of Michael's legacy.

The broadcast has led to underwhelming numbers but still it is being pushed. The three men are being pushed on Billboard. (Did Billboard publish the ppt from the Estate or did they just talk about receiving it?). And even though a lot of people haven't seen it, the discussion it seems to be pervasive. That seems to be the point.

Spot on. The main goal was to make it "trendy" to speak ill of MJ again, because people finally started to appreciate him and his work after his passing.

 

[RedMaryFlint]

^ I was trying to get that confirmed..

* That it was stated (I thought it was by Joy?) that Wade went 14 times and Michael there 4....
* The whole 'honeymoon' at Euro Disney in 1988..

These are two things I'm STILL trying to get confirmed.. I would really like to start using these as facts.. if they are! lol Come on someones gotta know lol.

You’re most likely thinking of Joy Robson’s 2005 testimony. It’s on VindicateMJ’s site.

5 Q. You testified that you’ve been out at the ranch on an average of about four times?
7 A. Four times a year, but Michael was never there.
9 Q. Was that all the way through today?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. He’s never there when you go there?
12 A. Very rarely. I can only remember four times
13 in 14 years that we’ve been there with him since we
14 have lived here.

 

[Paris78]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A couple of weeks ago I spoke to <a href="https://twitter.com/NolanFeeney?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NolanFeeney</a> of <a href="https://twitter.com/billboard?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@billboard</a> about 'stan culture' and how Michael Jackson's 'superfans' are coping with &amp; counteracting the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LeavingNeverland?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#LeavingNeverland</a> fiasco. The article went live today. Check it out below: <a href="https://t.co/75AKKy2Dhe">https://t.co/75AKKy2Dhe</a></p>&mdash; Damien Shields (@damienshields) <a href="https://twitter.com/damienshields/status/1108771125335478272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">21. März 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Finally... Michael Jackson was and will always be proven innocent.</p>&mdash; Taj Jackson (@tajjackson3) <a href="https://twitter.com/tajjackson3/status/1109233040243343360?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">22. März 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">6. Some people actually want to remain ignorant of the facts and truth. Don’t waste your time with them.</p>&mdash; Taj Jackson (@tajjackson3) <a href="https://twitter.com/tajjackson3/status/1109233036812402688?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">22. März 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">4. The media seriously underestimated the MJ fam and our factual knowledge.</p>&mdash; Taj Jackson (@tajjackson3) <a href="https://twitter.com/tajjackson3/status/1109233032408424449?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">22. März 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">2. A lot of the media are using different rules and guidelines for Michael Jackson in an desperate effort to re-write history and his innocence.</p>&mdash; Taj Jackson (@tajjackson3) <a href="https://twitter.com/tajjackson3/status/1109233028058869760?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">22. März 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">1. Leaving Neverland was a worldwide ratings FLOP, especially for all the free press and endorsements it got.</p>&mdash; Taj Jackson (@tajjackson3) <a href="https://twitter.com/tajjackson3/status/1109233025554890752?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">22. März 2019</a></blockquote>
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[Paris78]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here are ”receipts” on my “Wade Robson’s Mom Joy Liked Pro-Michael Jackson FB Posts After May 2013 &amp; Suddenly Unliked Them Yesterday” tweet. <br><br>Video explaining the Robson family’s FB cover up (all credit to <a href="https://twitter.com/prettyoungking?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@prettyoungking</a>):<a href="https://t.co/mwYb5671LI">https://t.co/mwYb5671LI</a><br><br>Joy’s post-Today Show “likes”: <a href="https://t.co/kM3dPWNP6r">pic.twitter.com/kM3dPWNP6r</a></p>&mdash; John Ziegler (@Zigmanfreud) <a href="https://twitter.com/Zigmanfreud/status/1109220575589732352?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">22. März 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/BJackson82?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@BJackson82</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/tajjackson3?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@tajjackson3</a><a href="https://twitter.com/deboleena_?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@deboleena_</a><br>Amazing news from FRANCE! <a href="https://twitter.com/TF1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TF1</a> the first &amp; biggest channel in France &amp; EUROPE will air a documentary of 90 min directed by Gilles Ganzmann which is a rebuttal to the LN on the 25th of June! <a href="https://t.co/Ltc2RyMiz4">https://t.co/Ltc2RyMiz4</a> <br>via <a href="https://twitter.com/TeleLoisirs?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Teleloisirs</a></p>&mdash; Natasha&#10083; (@Tash_G90) <a href="https://twitter.com/Tash_G90/status/1109277076278906881?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">23. März 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Credibility is leaving &quot;Leaving Neverland&quot; <a href="https://t.co/6DvBsu040t">https://t.co/6DvBsu040t</a></p>&mdash; MJVibe (@Mjvibe) <a href="https://twitter.com/Mjvibe/status/1109362136927666176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">23. März 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&quot;LIARS&quot; in the Headline re: <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MichaelJackson?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MichaelJackson</a> Fiction Leaving Neverland ... Now we are getting somewhere --- Keep On With The FORCE .. Don't Stop MJGlobal family - <a href="https://t.co/StC9RcMTPc">https://t.co/StC9RcMTPc</a> TY <a href="https://twitter.com/mikesmallcombe1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@mikesmallcombe1</a> for being dedicated in getting the TRUTH to the UK press! <a href="https://t.co/V7jRBeyIts">pic.twitter.com/V7jRBeyIts</a></p>&mdash; MJJJusticeProject (@MJJJusticePrjct) <a href="https://twitter.com/MJJJusticePrjct/status/1109461796526514176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">23. März 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">To <a href="https://twitter.com/BarbraStreisand?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@BarbraStreisand</a> ....<br>Listen <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DenzelWashigton?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#DenzelWashigton</a> &#128071;and also do some research! You didnt know <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MichaelJackson?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MichaelJackson</a> but he was proven INNOCENT and you dont know who Wade and James are. Do you? Educate yourself and dont be so ignorant! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LeavingNeverland?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#LeavingNeverland</a> <a href="https://t.co/DTvxUDZ6w3">https://t.co/DTvxUDZ6w3</a> <a href="https://t.co/fOq9sLTh6O">pic.twitter.com/fOq9sLTh6O</a></p>&mdash; DriBrasil (@DriBrasilMJ) <a href="https://twitter.com/DriBrasilMJ/status/1109424445742108672?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">23. März 2019</a></blockquote>
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[Paris78]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, article 11, states: &quot;Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defense.&quot; <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/michaeljackson?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#michaeljackson</a> <a href="https://t.co/XfXViGluv5">pic.twitter.com/XfXViGluv5</a></p>&mdash; Gerard McCarthy (@Gerard_McCarthy) <a href="https://twitter.com/Gerard_McCarthy/status/1109311193510891520?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">23. März 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Well this just broke my heart... <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MJFam?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MJFam</a> <a href="https://t.co/u1zddgG13f">pic.twitter.com/u1zddgG13f</a></p>&mdash; v&#1108;r&#963;níc&#945; &#128139; #MJInnocent (@MJacksonsQueen) <a href="https://twitter.com/MJacksonsQueen/status/1109453870328176640?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">23. März 2019</a></blockquote>
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[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

Ok ...the testemony ofJoy Robson didn't help us cause it only says how often Joy was in Neverland with and without MJ but not how often Wade and chantal were there.

Do you think that Joy, Chantal were ill during the recording of the interviews of LN and they want to make it look like as they were sad?

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

Guys, I've been reading up on Anthony Pelicano all day now and things don't add up at all. He was a huge help for Michael in the 90s, questioned Jordan Chandler, even went after Victor Guitierrez and when he quit the case he has always said MJ was innocent. That his resignation wasn't a sign of him thinking he was guilty at all.

I did a lot of reading on VindicateMJ and TheMJAllegations, it's been keeping me quite busy. I read about this Paul Baressi guy and how he claims he was speaking for Pelicano when in truth he isn't associated with him at all. Pelicano didn't share his information, not even with Bert Fields, MJ's then lawyer. But I can't deny that the following things don't sit right with me. Anyone have anything more on this?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny...rts/anthony-pellicano-prison-release.amp.html

Mr. Pellicano very likely could have faced less time in prison if he had cooperated with the authorities, but he never talked. In his interview last year with The Hollywood Reporter, he discussed “omerta,” the Mafia code of silence, and the value of keeping secrets. Among them, he said, were Michael Jackson’s. Mr. Pellicano worked for Mr. Jackson in the 1990s but said he quit when he learned what The Hollywood Reporter described as “truths even darker than those alleged in Jackson’s molestation scandal.” The Jackson family and estate have denied all allegations of sexual misconduct against him.

Then there's also the stuff from The Daily Beast that I read on VindicateMJ

https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/barresi-pellicano-and-michael-jackson-fbi-files-part-2/

In the Daily Beast article of August 7, 2011 called Hollywood Hacker Breaks His Silence Pellicano was quoted saying that he quit the Chandler case because he had found out some truths. Then he allegedly dropped an ambiguous phrase saying that MJ ‘did something much worse than molestation’.

And in the chart published the same day by the same Daily Beast but only on a different page called Pellicano’s Reach, Pellicano said that he had indeed found some damning evidence, only it was not about MJ, but was about the accuser’s family.

This way those who read the article knew one thing, and those who saw the chart knew another thing. And it never occurred to anyone to bring the two pieces of information together.

However if they did bring them together the true message from Pellicano would read as follows:

Pellicano did find some truths … and it was damning information about the accuser’s family.

So yes, as VindicateMj puts it as well it seems the daily beast was twisting words, wouldn't be the first time. There's a good chance exactly the same is the case with this "The Hollywood Reporter" from the NYTimes article?

Or could Pelicano now have turned to the "dark" side, selling his words to media?

Also saw a video on YouTube where he apparently told the media a year ago that he had dirt on MJ. According to the description of that video Pelicano had said this to The Hollywood Reporter

This goes completely against what he actually said when he resigned.

So I did a search to see if The Hollywood Reporter is a tabloid because it sure sounds like one and it does seem to be one and it's also owned by Billboard........

 

[Lightbringer]

Ok ...the testemony ofJoy Robson didn't help us cause it only says how often Joy was in Neverland with and without MJ but not how often Wade and chantal were there.

How did you come to this conclusion?

 

[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

I don't know but maybe he found out that the whole allegstions were an conspiricy against MJ in 1993 with some other powerful people involved like it is now in 2019 and MJ said it was also the case in 2003-05 to bring him down and cover up what dark things happened in hollywood.
Maybe the investigator found out the connection of the chandlers to those people?

This could be the reason why the Chandlers and Avisos maybe can't come forward because they can't tell the compleate truth or must be afraid to make the decision to vidicate MJ.

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

I don't know but maybe he found out that the whole allegstions were an conspiricy against MJ in 1993 with some other powerful people involved like it is now in 2019 and MJ said it was also the case in 2003-05 to bring him down and cover up what dark things happened in hollywood.
Maybe this he found out about the connection of the chandlers to those people?

This could be the reason why the Chandlers and Avisos maybe can't come forward because they can't tell the compleate truth or must be afraid to make he decision to vidicate MJ.

Was that in response to me?

Well these sources want us to believe he has the dirt on MJ himself. As The Hollywood Reporter claims he fired MJ over behavior even darker than the molestation scandal. They also have a alleged quote by him about being offered 500.000 bucks to sell his story but he declined.

None of it adds up. More and more sounding like media twisting words completely. And if that's the case I hope we soon get actual words by the man about his actual genuine thoughts.

 

[Lightbringer]

Was that in response to me?

Well these sources want us to believe he has the dirt on MJ himself. As The Hollywood Reporter claims he fired MJ over behavior even darker than the molestation scandal. They also have a alleged quote by him about being offered 500.000 bucks to sell his story but he declined.

None of it adds up. More and more sounding like media twisting words completely. And if that's the case I hope we soon get actual words by the man about his actual genuine thoughts.

We got a thread going on the old man

https://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/...do-you-expect-him-to-sell-out-Michael-Jackson

 

[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

Was that in response to me?

Well these sources want us to believe he has the dirt on MJ himself. As The Hollywood Reporter claims he fired MJ over behavior even darker than the molestation scandal. They also have a alleged quote by him about being offered 500.000 bucks to sell his story but he declined.

None of it adds up. More and more sounding like media twisting words completely. And if that's the case I hope we soon get actual words by the man about his actual genuine thoughts.

Yeah I argued for the posibilty that the investgator found something out in MJs favor aginst the Chandlers and that the tabloids twist this around cause they were always involved in the conspiricy.

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

We got a thread going on the old man

https://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/...do-you-expect-him-to-sell-out-Michael-Jackson

Thank you. I'll continue the discussion there then.

Yeah I argued for the posibilty that the investgator found something out in MJs favor aginst the Chandlers and that the tabloids twist this around cause they were always involved in the conspiricy.

That is exactly what I'm hoping too. The media can easily twist words to their narrative and have done so in the past many times already. But you never know, the man is out of jail, maybe needs money. But then his alleged quote wouldn't make sense about being offered 500.000 dollars and not accepting it, even though he needed it. Let's just wait and see.

 

[Black Orchid]

Look.... millions of people worldwide now talking about enjoyable sexual acts, possible loving relationships between children and adults with no psychloical or physical problems for the child.
Do you reconize something?

No. I actually don't see anyone who had seen the doc talking about enjoyable sexual relationships between a grown men and a child at all, except some fans and pedophiles. Thats what I meant with conspiracy theories. People who saw LN are disgusted by it, they don't go "Oh, well, it seemed they had fun with MJ, maybe I was wrong and paedophilia isn't that bad." This is quite the opposite of what's actually happening right now.

It's also not helpful to imply that Reed is pedophile himself. It would explain some statements he made in the past about fulfilling realtionships beween children and adults, yes, but we don't have any evidence. Fans should just focus on facts instead of believing in some diffuse conspiracy stories. As I said before, they don't do the fan community no favor with that.

 

[Soundmind]

Where is respect77 active?

 

[CherubimII]

Please watch and support this good LN debunking video from Dru Story News who did very great job on MJ defending Videos in the past.

This video is so...AWESOME!!!!
I'm now going to include it in all my rebuttal to Leaving Neverland posts.
Thanks for sharing.?

 

[TheChosenOne]

Speed-Demon87 it is your posts like this last one and lead people to question you and your motives. Sigh.

Things are not great but they are not horrible either. Once we keep fighting the narrative will change. Being fatalistic helps no-one.

 

[Soundmind]

No. I actually don't see anyone who had seen the doc talking about enjoyable sexual relationships between a grown men and a child at all, except some fans and pedophiles. Thats what I meant with conspiracy theories. People who saw LN are disgusted by it, they don't go "Oh, well, it seemed they had fun with MJ, maybe I was wrong and paedophilia isn't that bad." This is quite the opposite of what's actually happening right now.

It's also not helpful to imply that Reed is pedophile himself. It would explain some statements he made in the past about fulfilling realtionships beween children and adults, yes, but we don't have any evidence. Fans should just focus on facts instead of believing in some diffuse conspiracy stories. As I said before, they don't do the fan community no favor with that.

It is Dan who is pushing this agenda. He himself said in a recent interview that people who watched the documentary missed the point that the trauma is not caused by the abuse itself because it was an enjoyable experience for them but by the way their families reacted to it how to reconcile between how they feel about it on one hand and how their families do on the other hand. This is not something the fans made up and this is why Barbara is saying now they were thrilled to be with him (abused) because indeed that what they have been saying which is nothing but a NAMBLA propaganda. Wade and Safechuck don't necessary advocate for this agenda but Dan definitely does.

 

[PoP]

Here you go again with that nonsense, what is with you and that?

Really, what stories?

Oh and if Barbara Streisand really said that about LN, about Michael and the two chumps... that is alarming to me. What she said is very very off and very similar to the narrative Reed is pushing.

Streisand is down right overrated anyways, she's adding more fuel to the fire cause fellow fans to lash at her and she as may well deserve it too, anymore stars turning on Michael is just adding fuel to my hatred towards them.

 

[KOPV]

Speeed Demon, you gotta stop smoking whatever it is you're smoking.. Everyday it's clearer and clearer that they lied.. You are reading too many articles and not enough actual news. I urge you to maybe get on twitter and see what people are actually saying.. People as a whole don't really buy it and the facts prove they lied. There is nothing else to think about aside from HELPING spreading the facts!

Yes crying is healthy, but crying without action only soaks the floor and once those tears settle.. It leaves water damage!! Simply spend more time helping build the foundation instead of telling us what wind may come our way.. At some point that type of talk only gets in our way of doing something about it.. (time spent) trying to figure things out for you instead of focusing on the big picture.

 

[TheChosenOne]

If a fan find themselves blowing with breeze - feeling he is innocent because of some positive news or feeling he may be guilty because some negative news - then that fan needs to do some serious soul searching.

There is only so much support and information we on this forum can provide. The rest is left up to the individual.

I am here to help fans who feel sad, angry or worried about this situation, but know that Michael is innocent. I am NOT here for fans who have doubts and need to cajoled, massaged and convinced. *shrug*