Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

[ILoveHIStory]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">PROOF THAT MICHAEL JACKSON&#39;S ACCUSER GAVIN LIED! <a href="https://twitter.com/Writinglady?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Writinglady</a> tried to get media attention but couldn&#39;t. I tried to get Twitter&#39;s attention but couldn&#39;t. Maybe now you&#39;ll listen! <a href="https://t.co/K8iVdVzz3H">https://t.co/K8iVdVzz3H</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/ithl123?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ithl123</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/tajjackson3?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@tajjackson3</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/JanetJackson?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@JanetJackson</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/randyjackson8?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@randyjackson8</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/wingheart?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@wingheart</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/PaulJRizzo?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@PaulJRizzo</a></p>&mdash; kew1186 (@KeastonWhite) <a href="https://twitter.com/KeastonWhite/status/1084942170342244354?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 14, 2019</a></blockquote>
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[ILoveHIStory]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Listen to this video....
Try putting your computer speakers on treble rather than bass, to get a clearer sound to the interview audio. You may also try turning up your speakers. When the speakers are louder (or you listen with headphones) it is easier to hear the audio portion of the interview.

 

[KOPV]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Cant the estate at least threaten a lawsuit for deformation? I know they said something but is there any action being taken to our knowlege from Them?

Ps. I'd like to listen to that podcast Mike's nephew mentioned, I'm not sure if I ever heard it or not.

 

[Antwort]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

What Joseph Vogel said about Taj, how he was abused by someone on his mother's side and how MJ helped him with that. That is quite something. THAT is the MJ so many more people need to learn and hear about. And those lyrics to that unreleased song was news to me. Very interesting, and sad.

Unfortunately, both of those issues are not new to me. I remember feeling so terribly sorry for Taj when reading about his experience. That was very brave of him to do - to share with the world his trauma in the process of defending his uncle.

The chorus to the Innocent Man unreleased tune also hit me as soon as I saw the lyrics all those years ago; they are incredibly sad. If I had to make a guess, I'd say it's probably one of the leftover songs from the HIStory sessions.

And this is what it is going to take. They can NOT put a doc and think no one is going to come out with the Facts on Wade and James. Look at the RKelly doc, they went in deep but there was nothing to counter it; In MJ's case, there is PLENTY to counter it. Most people are not stupid and good thinking people do think. See what Wade and James have to deal with is the fact that they DEFENDED Jackson all of these years and that is the narriative that has to be pushed along with them suing and lost and now this at a MONEY MAKING EVENT LIKE SUNDANCE. Again, this may turn out to be a blessing for MJ and I am trusting in God it will.

Same here, terrell, same here. I very much share your perspective; I also have faith in the common sense of reasonable people. Although some can and will be misguided, I am convinced that most people who will be presented with the facts demonstrating Michael's innocence, will embrace them.

I also hope and pray that what the enemi(es) aim at destruction will be used by the Good Lord for redemption. After all, truth is on the side of the innocent man called Michael J. Jackson, the one who didn't get to completely grow out of the scared, innocent little boy he always has been.

Irrespective of how much of their own mud, twisted deviance and monstrosity they try to project onto Michael's good name, they won't be able to erase the truth of his innocence, the beauty of his message and the solidity of his body of work.

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

That's what I was wondering, I can't blame Taj for anything, he is doing the best he can now, but it took something like this to happen for him to start thinking about the documentary. And even if he does finishes it, it will be long after this one.

I don&#8217;t know. I think we should stay calm though and if/then the media brings this up (again) and we think this may be an unbiast journalist who just is not aware of facits send email &#8221;the reasons we think Michael Jackson was innocents are as follows&#8221; with facits about the Chandlers and Arvizos. If you say we are wrong perhaps you would like to check facts yourself. There has never been any credibility befind this and they would never have got away with it if the media had investigated and maybe some day somebody will.

I hope so. But will they report the actual facts we send them, or will they just look at Sundance, report about the documentary, the reactions to it from people and so on? I've yet to see a real informative article with facts about his accusers on CNN for example. When MJ was found not guilty on all charges they couldn't print anything else but that news. But now they have the chance to bring some "juicy" trash again.

I absolutely still believe that a documentary from MJ's side should have been made already. Not necessarily his brothers, but maybe his three children. Paris has been quite vocal and very supportive of her father on social media, it's kind of surprising that that's not the case yet. Perhaps she's just very tired of it. I'm sure she has her reasons.

When the Bashir doc aired, it definitely changed opinions of some people, negatively. Do we know how big the impact was of Mike's own documentary? Take 2, the footage you weren't meant to see is what it's called I believe? With lots of marketing via social media, TV and in papers about a documentary that finally covers these accusers, I'm sure a lot of people would tune in and watch it. At least learn about these two pieces of human waste.

 

[terrell]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I hope so. But will they report the actual facts we send them, or will they just look at Sundance, report about the documentary, the reactions to it from people and so on? I've yet to see a real informative article with facts about his accusers on CNN for example. When MJ was found not guilty on all charges they couldn't print anything else but that news. But now they have the chance to bring some "juicy" trash again.

I absolutely still believe that a documentary from MJ's side should have been made already. Not necessarily his brothers, but maybe his three children. Paris has been quite vocal and very supportive of her father on social media, it's kind of surprising that that's not the case yet. Perhaps she's just very tired of it. I'm sure she has her reasons.

When the Bashir doc aired, it definitely changed opinions of some people, negatively. Do we know how big the impact was of Mike's own documentary? Take 2, the footage you weren't meant to see is what it's called I believe? With lots of marketing via social media, TV and in papers about a documentary that finally covers these accusers, I'm sure a lot of people would tune in and watch it. At least learn about these two pieces of human waste.

WE will see. Like I say, the media is under a micro now with being called FAKE NEWS. If they do not, this can be pointed out and show they are Fake news. I notice more anchors are correcting themselves on tv now compare to years ago. And Mj's take two doc did great for him. Even Oprah featured it on her show back then and said Bashiar was talking out of both sides of his mouth.

 

[8701girl]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Listen to this video....
Try putting your computer speakers on treble rather than bass, to get a clearer sound to the interview audio. You may also try turning up your speakers. When the speakers are louder (or you listen with headphones) it is easier to hear the audio portion of the interview.

Its blocked!

 

[La74]

The problem has always been the media bias. If it wasn&#8217;t for that the Chandler story could have been just an episode 26 years and none of the other allegations would have happen because they were built on the Chandler story. Like the women, and I thinking mostly of the one who called her self Billie Jean who said he was the father of her kids or the girls / women who have claimed to be Janet Jackson daughter throughout the years. But it&#8217;s 2019 now, he has been dead for 10 years and maybe somebody who is just not aware of facts is ready to investigate their credibilty.

 

[MJTruth]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Its blocked!

If I access it from the post above than an error message appears, but the message does provide a working Youtube link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmjQ8UUVv2I&feature=player_embedded


I think it's a good video but it'll change nothing. It cannot be verified, BUT if ever there were a documentary made about the Arvizo allegations I think she'd be an excellent interviewee for the show!

Sadly proving that Arvizo lied doesn't prove that Robson and Safechuck are lying. It's not a valid argument in that discussion.
Similarly, many fans use MJ's acquittal in 2005 as though that should mean any accusations levied against him later should be auto dismissed. That is not the case. I don't think MJ abused any of them, but the discussion around the Robson/Safechuck claims needs to be focused on THEIR claims and their behaviour. For an MJ fan to address those allegations by attempting to deviate into discussion about Arvizo is not useful.

 

[MJTruth]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

institute@sundance.org
programming@sundance.org
John_Cooper@sundance.org
Keri_putnam@sundance.org
general@hbo.com
richard.plepler@hbo.com
viewerenquiries@channel4.com
emercedes@channel4.com
contact@ofcom.org.uk
alex.mahon@shinegroup.tv
amyhartred@me.com
caterina@caterina.net
texthelp@geicomail.com
logan@lyft.com
michael@dell.com
pr@cusa.canon.com
ancestrysupport@ancestry.com
jojo@amospictures.co.uk
IKatz@channel4.co.uk
casey.bloys@hbo.com
tporter@channel4.co.uk

Please copy and paste this and put it into the recipients for your email. These are a list of the sponsors and HBO/Sundance/Channel 4. Hopefully one sponsor pulls out.

Please give me some more emails and I'll edit this post. DO YOUR PART

MODS Please add this list to the first post.

 

[dam2040]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

MODS Please add this list to the first post.

Added to my original post!

 

[Mikky Dee]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Sadly proving that Arvizo lied doesn't prove that Robson and Safechuck are lying. It's not a valid argument in that discussion.
Similarly, many fans use MJ's acquittal in 2005 as though that should mean any accusations levied against him later should be auto dismissed. That is not the case. I don't think MJ abused any of them, but the discussion around the Robson/Safechuck claims needs to be focused on THEIR claims and their behaviour. For an MJ fan to address those allegations by attempting to deviate into discussion about Arvizo is not useful.

I agree; however Robson and Safechuck's claims have also been dismissed in court. It is fair for MJ fans to point that out, along with all of the inconsistencies and inexplicable behaviours exhibited by Robson, in particular, in recent years.

 

[Mikky Dee]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Cant the estate at least threaten a lawsuit for defamation?
I know they said something but is there any action being taken to our knowledge from Them?

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as defamation of a deceased person in United States law, so there are no avenues for legal action.

 

[MJTruth]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as defamation of a deceased person in United States law, so there are no avenues for legal action.

Sad but true.
Also, very frustrating for the MJ Estate.

Anybody can say ANYTHING about MJ in a TV show, movie, book, on a website, on social media. Anything. nothing the MJ Estate can do to stop it. If a number of people do that then the "weight of evidence" starts to mount up and that can destroy everything.


The MJ Estate has three options as far as I can tell.

(a) remain silent in the hope that it stays under the radar. No chance in hell that will work; totally ineffective at protecting MJ's legacy.
(b) Denounce the documentary as they have already done. Very ineffective at protecting MJ's legacy;
(c) Go on the counter attack and release damning evidence to show Robson/Safechuck are not to be trusted without question. This is the strongest option but not without risk as the people they will attack are still alive and very much protected by anti-slander/defamation laws.

In the last 10 years they have chosen to avoid the allegations wherever possible outside a legal setting but (IMO!) they don't have much choice now, and they don't have much time to address the situation. I hope they're working overtime to sort something out. they cannot sit back and let this rest unchallenged.

As fans we need to play our part. Keep on fighting against the documentary

But we also need to brace ourselves for impact.

We have seen the legal paperwork. We know EXACTLY what those two clowns are going to claim happened to them. It's not going to be pretty.

 

[barbee0715]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as defamation of a deceased person in United States law, so there are no avenues for legal action.

What about the U.K. Laws? Are they the same? This thing was commissioned by channel 4-can they sue in England?

 

[MJTruth]

So here's a thing. I was trying to find contact information for Dan Reed.

I tried Linked In and could not find any mention of Atmos Pictures and there are too many Dan Reeds to look into.
I tried WhoIs and there was no useful contact information associated with the Atmos pictures domain.

As the Atmos Pictures site has a UK domain ( https://www.amospictures.co.uk/ ) I tried UK Companies House to find the company registration and found 'Atmos Pictures Limited' (Company number 03511357)

The director is one Dan Bennett Reed, born in December 1964 (correct month and year accoring to imdb)

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03511357


Looking at the company accounts filed on 31st March 2018 this is a very small scale company with total net assets of £56k and owing £700k due within one year.


Rather amusingly their original was "Suspect device". Well this documentary is certainly a suspect device used by Robson and Safechuck

Oh and the "nature of business" for Atmos Pictures is listed as "Artistic creation". I'm not even going to comment... :shutup:


anyway, still no closer to an email address for Dan himself, other than using the jojo@atmospictures.co.uk address.

 

[MJTruth]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

What about the U.K. Laws? Are they the same? This thing was commissioned by channel 4-can they sue in England?

I don't think MJ or is Estate would be protected against this doc in the UK.

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Just read the news about Paris and the rehab facility, goddamn. I guess we have our answer why she hasn't been as vocal on her Twitter lately.

 

[Sarah_MJ]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Could we maybe create an extra thread on all the facts showing the incredibility of Robson and the documentary (i.e. Robson's participation in Michael's funeral, Robson's testimonial in court in 2005 etc.)? We could collect all those facts together and tweet and email and comment them to HBO, Sundance, Channel 4 etc. for as long as they don't pull it from the program. What do you think? I personally would find that super helpful to defend Michael.

 

[PoP]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as defamation of a deceased person in United States law, so there are no avenues for legal action.

My mom asked me about it and which I told they're not doing anything. I told her about the s and she told she's standing ground and refuse to watch it if it's on HBO, I have HBO on cable, but like her I refuse to watch it, plus she had the nerve to tell me to get over it. Like hell I refuse to get over it, she has no right telling me that, she can't expect me to get over it, I rather fight than give in. I like everybody else are fighting until the very end.

 

[MJTruth]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Just read the news about Paris and the rehab facility, goddamn. I guess we have our answer why she hasn't been as vocal on her Twitter lately.

Who knows, maybe she knew this was coming before it was announced?

The MJ Estate in their statement were very clear who was involved in this documentary even though Sundance themselves hadn't mentioned anybody by name. There wasn't any speculation by the Estate, so I did wonder at the time how they would have known. I wouldn't put it past Robson/Safechuck or their lawyer Finaldi to approach the Estate for some kind of settlement to keep it quiet. That's just speculation on my part but Finaldi is known for using pressure techniques to force settlements for his clients.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Somebody should inform the Jacksons (LaToya, Jermaine and co)! about STACY BROWN conspiracy fake news articles spreading BS and completely fabricated bs claims, he is co-working with Diane DIAMOND

the Conspirator and selftitled Jackson family friend, Diane Diamond´s informator and co-news faker and MOTHER F**KER STACY BROWN SPREADING BULLS!T.





Guys, comment his bs claims and unbelievably faked report...:

http://jacksonvillefreepress.com/do...-to-expose-michael-jackson-as-child-predator/

+

Other news source by Stacy Brown consciously spreading BS and orchestrated anti-Michaeljackson propaganda:
https://newpittsburghcourieronline....-to-expose-michael-jackson-as-child-predator/

Maureen was very much aware of the crap stacy pulled over the years but kept been pally with him

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Could we maybe create an extra thread on all the facts showing the incredibility of Robson and the documentary (i.e. Robson's participation in Michael's funeral, Robson's testimonial in court in 2005 etc.)? We could collect all those facts together and tweet and email and comment them to HBO, Sundance, Channel 4 etc. for as long as they don't pull it from the program. What do you think? I personally would find that super helpful to defend Michael.

Yeah I'd like that. But also with stuff about Safechuck, because I've been busy posting comments on articles about this documentary with facts about the settlement in the 90s and I link to Joseph Vogel's piece about Robson. But we need stuff on Safechuck just as much.

 

[dam2040]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Robson is easy, he was far too public for far too long [even after his alleged breakdown] defending MJ. Safechuck on the other hand is different. What have we got on him?

 

[MJTruth]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

deleted

 

[dam2040]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Wow, look at this Mac Culkin article defending Michael on the Mirror - https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/macaulay-culkin-confirms-true-nature-13864871

The comments are mostly positive, and the negative ones are all 'thumbed down'!

This is at the top of the site too.

 

[Paris78]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I love you cuz! I will be calling you soon. <a href="https://twitter.com/HBO?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@HBO</a> and <a href="https://twitter.com/HBODocs?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@HBODocs</a> are you sure Wade and his family are really worth your worldwide reputation? Not too late to do the right thing.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/StopLeavingNeverlandNow?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#StopLeavingNeverlandNow</a> <a href="https://t.co/rIdOL9qHMQ">https://t.co/rIdOL9qHMQ</a></p>&mdash; Taj Jackson (@tajjackson3) <a href="https://twitter.com/tajjackson3/status/1085302571533709312?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">15. Januar 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I’m beginning to think <a href="https://twitter.com/HBO?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@hbo</a> and <a href="https://twitter.com/HBODocs?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@HBODocs</a> don’t care about the truth. Wade’s timeline never added up because Wade is lying. Did <a href="https://twitter.com/HBO?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Hbo</a> even vet him? He’s clearly an opportunist, not a victim. <a href="https://t.co/02EZZk2jMO">https://t.co/02EZZk2jMO</a></p>&mdash; Taj Jackson (@tajjackson3) <a href="https://twitter.com/tajjackson3/status/1085447012781191169?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">16. Januar 2019</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Nice to see <a href="https://twitter.com/Madonna?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Madonna</a> passing on her love of MJ and his music to her kids. <a href="https://t.co/ySaGufle8m">https://t.co/ySaGufle8m</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/mjfam?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#mjfam</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MichaelJacksonInnocent?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MichaelJacksonInnocent</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/kjngofpops?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@kjngofpops</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/andjustice4some?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@andjustice4some</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/tajjackson3?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@tajjackson3</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/invinciblekop?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@invinciblekop</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/chechescachis?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@chechescachis</a></p>&mdash; JRamome'sFriz (@JoeyRamonesFriz) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoeyRamonesFriz/status/1085569318245543936?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">16. Januar 2019</a></blockquote>
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[Paris78]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Macaulay Culkin Defends Michael Jackson again! <a href="https://t.co/iANZ742F0z">https://t.co/iANZ742F0z</a></p>&mdash; MJVibe (@Mjvibe) <a href="https://twitter.com/Mjvibe/status/1085447099578281984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">16. Januar 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="de"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The one and only <a href="https://twitter.com/IncredibleCulk?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@IncredibleCulk</a> joins me for the podcast this week. Hear about his Catholic School fights, pranks calls with Michael Jackson, and getting drunk in Thailand. Listen now! <a href="https://t.co/uSaGvuVzDo">https://t.co/uSaGvuVzDo</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/macaulayculkin?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#macaulayculkin</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/insideofyou?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#insideofyou</a> <a href="https://t.co/QLLt2mkZjm">pic.twitter.com/QLLt2mkZjm</a></p>&mdash; Michael Rosenbaum (@michaelrosenbum) <a href="https://twitter.com/michaelrosenbum/status/1085217024156913664?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">15. Januar 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Wow, look at this Mac Culkin article defending Michael on the Mirror - https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/macaulay-culkin-confirms-true-nature-13864871

The comments are mostly positive, and the negative ones are all 'thumbed down'!

This is at the top of the site too.

Good on Mac. Defending him all the way! And I'm actually shocked that the majority of comments are positive, wow.

 

[Lovepeace1]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Yes, totally agree