BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For [General Discussion]

[Rudolf]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

And i think everyone would appreciate if you share something of your knowledge.
And if you can't share full information maybe you could give some hints about the situation.

Only simply stating that YOU KNOW is a little frustrating.
Much more frustrating to me, than getting a dvd with enhanced vhs quality of wembley '88. :-D

I really don't know much. What I know is that it's fully possible Blu-Ray release of Wembley theoretically. But for some reason Estate has only VHS source. I can't really explain that..

 

[Remington Steele]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

You just don't understand do you. It's not even my assumption. I know it for a fact.

Do you also know whether the film material actually still exists? I mean theoretically, it could be lost forever.

 

[Rudolf]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Do you also know whether the film material actually still exists? I mean theoretically, it could be lost forever.

I THINK, but I don't know, that the film could be actually in private hands. That's my assumption.
But I'm sure it can't be lost.

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Anybody ever thought that this all could have something to do with marketing?

Maybe the estate has everything together.

I would completely understand if it's marketing strategy. Bring the low quality first, people will buy no matter what.
Bring the high quality a little later, people will buy again.

Look @ The Lord Of The Rings for example: It's been (ONLY) 10 years now since the first movie came out. And there were plenty of different rereleases: boxed, single, extended, extended boxed, HD, HD extended boxed. It's almost insane.
And every time they had the stuff selling through the roof.

So why should the estate make any different?
It's their first and most important goal to make money!

And they need quality material and treasures in 2017 when a new contract (maybe with a new label) is about to be finalized.
2017 is not far and will come fast.

That was just my thinking.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

I think that the Estate has all the rights for the Bad Tour films, but the films are not in their possession.

 

[Hess]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

I've heard a rumour that BAD WEMBLEY 1988 CONCERT WILL BE RELEASED THIS YEAR!!!! :wild: :wild: :wild:

And a LIVE CD from the BAD CONCERT!!

And believe it or not - A FULL CD OF NEW STUFF!!! - Demoes, songs that didn't make it to the final album etc.!!

KERMIT GOING CRAZY!!! GREAT NEWS!!

Can this be real?? And if so will we be happy or discuss bitrates, quality etc.??

I KNOW I'M HAPPY!!!

YOU KNOW I'M BAD, BAD, really relly BAD!!! - YEAH!!

;D :lol:

SMILE !

 

[loveforever]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Bottom line is that no one knows about the finances of MJ in relation to the bad tour film. What we do know is that the Estate obviously does not have access to them and is not in possession of them. It's not like the estate is sitting on all these master tapes thinking "well we really should use that VHS tape guys!". The only options I can think of are
1) The entire concert possibly wasn't filmed (only certain songs)
2) Due to contractual issues: The masters are owned by Nocturne Productions and estate wasn't able to come to agreement with them in regards to finances. Most likely the company that owns the masters is greedy and expects a high amount since it's MJ.

I think 1 is most likely or someone unlawfully obtained them and had to hide. 2 is unlikely to me. the estate had even paid the "ridiculous' amount of money on those controversial Cascio songs. It's hard to believe they would say no to a Wembley Bad concert film. Such legendary moments in high definition will only uplift Michael's legacy and benefit the estate in long term.

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

I think that the Estate has all the rights for the Bad Tour films, but the films are not in their possession.

And WHERE would they be?


Thanks MJJLativa for your answer ;-)

 

[ilmjj]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

You just know that all the performers out today will watch this! Like Michael said "study the greats" But heres the thing, Michael had a once in a planets lifetime gift that can't be duplicated no matter how hard one might practice.

I really wish the estate would put the BAD WEMBLY concert in theaters too!!

 

[Galactus123]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

I also love Yokohama. The only things I don't like is the dreadful dripping effect in Thriller and the fading effect in Human Nature. But, hey, those effects were the coolest things in 1987.

I agree with you I expect more from an official release. Seriously, if I don't care about quality, I can buy bootlegs of everything. Yokohama is fan-made bootleg that is available for free and can be downloaded from internet. I would, of course, set my par lower. I'm grateful for the fan's effort and his generosity.

Bootleg? Yokohama concert was televised in many countries according to Wikipedia.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Out of 123 concerts around the world as a solo artist for the first time in his life with all the televized reports that I saw in 1988, breaking all the records, and not a single film? That probability is from extremely low to zero.

 

[Rudolf]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Bootleg? Yokohama concert was televised in many countries according to Wikipedia.

Isn't TV stream recording also a bootleg? It's not officially released, so I suppose it is bootleg.

 

[Alec]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

And WHERE would they be?

I think the sad truth is that HQ video recordings of the tour were either accidentaly destroyed or laying somewhere forgotten in a warehouse and may be gone forever. Who would have known about the multitracks of Wembley if GoFlying hadn't held on to them all these years and if he hadn't been approaching Sony about releasing them repeatedly? (at least that's what happened from my understanding)

That being said, Michael had this particular show recorded on multitrack... MAKES YOU WONDER if and what measures he took to record the visual component? Cause it seems rather likely he would not spend so much money on just having the audio recorded. It doesn't make sense, so my bet is it was recorded on 35mm film as well.

Regardless of whether this show was recorded on film or just the regular TV quality... if what they say about the VHS tape being the only copy of the show in existence is really true and the Estate did ALL they could to locate a possible master tape of whatever format (which turned out not to exist), I can only say one thing. Michael and Dileo screwed up. And screwed up badly. They MUST have known how much footage of these shows would be worth in the future, why didn't they they secure a master tape?

 

[Remington Steele]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

A possibility is they just don't know where the footage is. Over 24 years since 1988, one person gave it to another, which gave it to yet another person, and so on. Now the footage is either rotting in some attic / basement (owner unknowing of that treasure), being anxiously hidden by the owner, or since long thrown into the garbage.

 

[GreenEyes]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

It's a shame that Frank Dileo is gone. He may have known the whereabouts of these things and how to track them down, if they exist.

 

[Moonwalker.Fan]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

If Michael (and thus the Estate) does not have right to the film, then who?

Leslei updated the list of the active Michael Jackson related companies. This is the most comprehensive list ever made in this topic, with some surprises!

The Michael Jackson Company LLC
Register date: 06/13/2006
County: Delaware, California
Ownership: 100%
Profile: Intellectual property, general.

MJJ Productions LLC
Register date: 10/30/1979
County: Delaware, California
Ownership: 100%
Profile: Intellectual property, general.

MJJ Ventures Inc.
Register date: 02/26/1991
County: Delaware, California
Ownership: 100%
Profile: Intellectual property, especially videos.

MJJ Artistic Inc.
Register date: 01/04/1990
County: California
Ownership: 100%
Profile: Intellectual property, most likely comics.

Triumph International Inc.
Register date: 03/09/1984
County: California
Ownership: 100%
Profile: Intellectual property, trademarks.

Optimum Productions Inc.
Register date: 09/21/1983
County: California
Ownership: 100%
Profile: Intellectual property, especially video releases.

World Events LLC
Register date: 04/10/2001
County: Delaware
Ownership: 70%
Profile: Intellectual property, the "30th Anniversary Concerts" (along with David Gest).

Sycamore Valley Ranch Co. LLC
Register date: 07/15/2008
County: Delaware
Ownership: 87.5%
Profile: Owns Neverland Valley Ranch, despite the rumors, MJ is a major owner (along with Colony Capital)!

SEE Virtual World MJ LLC
SEE Virtual World MJ Operations LLC
Register date: 02/26/2010 and 10/14/2009
County: California
Ownership: 50%
Profile: Intellectual property, PlanetMichael.com

Cirque Jackson I.P. LLC
Register date: 08/19/2010
County: Delaware
Ownership: 50%
Profile: Intellectual property, "Immortal World Tour".

Desert Auto LLC
Register date: 02/21/2008
County: Nevada
Ownership: 100%
Profile: Unknown.

521 Montana Joint Venture LLC
Register date: 10/30/1990
County: California
Ownership: 5.5%
Profile: Unknown.

MJ Publishing Trust, New Horizont Trust, New Horizont Trust II
Register date: 11/30/1998
County: Delaware
Ownership: 100%
Profile: Copyright, MJ's own music and fellow artists.

MJ-ATV Publishing Trust, New Horizont Trust III
Register date: 02/09/1999
County: Delaware
Ownership: 100%
Profile: Copyright, Sony-ATV catalouge.

MJJ Records LLC (aka. MJJ Music)
Register date: 09/04/1997
County: California
Ownership: 50%
Profile: Master recordings.

Go For Your Dreams Foundation
Register date: 10/10/2003
County: California
Ownership: 100%
Profile: Foundation.

Furthermore the Michael Jackson Estate owns most of the artistic works MJ created in the past through merge-outs and aquisitions (like concert footages, artworks, collaborations, etc.).


Barely known companies, that has been closed down in the meantime:
Branson Media Group LLC
Register date: 07/12/2001
County: California
Ownership: 100%
Profile: Unknown.

Jackson International LLC
Register date: 08/18/1998
County: Delaware
Ownership: 100%
Profile: Investments (the California entity database still shows it as an active company, however it has been long suspended in Delaware).

Monte Cristo Employment Company LLC
Register date: 02/12/2007
County: Delaware
Ownership: 100%
Profile: Unknown.


***************

November 2011:

100% ownership:
*The Michael Jackson Company LLC (Active in Delaware and California; Owns some intellectual property since 2006)
*MJJ Productions Inc. (Active both in Delaware and California; Owns some intellectual property since 1979; MJ's production company between 1979-2006)
*MJJ Ventures (Active in California; Owns some intellectual property related to short films since 1991)
*Optimum productions Inc. (Active in California; Owns intellectual property related to short films since 1983)
*MJJ Artistic Inc. (Active in California; Owns some intellectual property since 1990)
*Nation Comics Inc. (Active in California; Owns some intellectial property since 1991)
*Invincible Tours Inc. (Active in California; Controlled MJ's planned 2002 tour since 2001)
*Triumph International Inc. (Active in Delaware and California; Owns most of the intellectual property related to MJ since 1982)
*Triumph Multimedia Inc. (Active in California; Owns some intellectual property since 1993)
*MJ-ATV Publishing Trust (Active in Delaware; Controls MJ's part in Sony/ATV since 1999)
*MJ Publishing LLC (Active in Delaware; Controls MJ's own music catalog and master recordings since 1998, aka. MiJac Music)
*New Horizon Trust I. II. and III. (Active in Delaware; Holds publishing rights against debts)
*Go For Your Dream Foundation (Active in California; Controls MJ's previous foundation since 2003)
*Desert Auto LLC (Active in California and Nevada; It's profile is unknown)

50% partnerships:
*SEE Virtual World MJ LLC (Active in California; Controls the joint venture on PlanetMichael.com project since 2009)
*SEE Virtual World MJ Operations LLC (Active in California; Controls the joint venture on PlanetMichael.com project since 2010)
*Cirque Jackson I.P. LLC (Active in Delaware; Controls the joint venture with Cirque De Soleil on the MJ shows since 2010)
*Sony/ATV Music Publishing LLC (Active in Delaware and California; Controls the joint venture with Sony since 1995)
*Sycamore Valley Ranch Company LLC (Active in California; Controls MJ's Neverland Ranch with Colony Capital since 2008)
*MJJ Records LLC (Active in Delaware and California; Owns master records and intellectual property to MJ's MJJ Music label recordings with Sony)
*World Events LLC (Active in Delaware; Owns intellectual property to the 2001 MJ concerts with David Gest)
*MJ Licensing LLC (Active in Delaware; Owns some intellectual property in Europe since 2003 with Dieter Wiesner)

Questionable companies:
MJJ Kingdom LLC (Active in Delaware and California; It's profile is unknown, created in the Tohme Tohme era in 2008)
Jackson International LLC (Active in California; MJ's previous investment company since 1998, it's function is unknown)

http://lesliemjhu.blogspot.com/

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

I think the films exist, and not only the Bad tour, but all the tours: Triumph, Victory, etc. I believe MJ didn't want them to be part of ATV catalogue.


According to wiki:
After Jackson's acquisition of ATV Music Publishing, his record label, CBS, were negotiating the sale of their record division in an unrelated deal. Following hurriedly arranged meetings and disagreements over the selling price, a deal was sealed by Jackson during a concert in Tokyo.[SUP][18][/SUP] Upon seeing the success of this sale, Japanese corporation Sony sought to break away from its core business of hardware manufacturing and diversify into music, films and games. Looking for further opportunities, the company aimed to expand its music publishing interests. The Japanese corporation offered Jackson $90 million for 50% of ATV Music Publishing in 1995.[SUP][18][/SUP][SUP][19][/SUP]Jackson gladly accepted; he had essentially acquired half ownership of the Beatles' songs for a large profit.[SUP][18][/SUP] Jackson's own songs were not included in the deal.[SUP][17][/SUP] Having been merged, the company was renamed Sony/ATV Music Publishing and became the second largest music publisher in the world.[SUP][18][/SUP] Michael P. Schulhof, President and CEO of Sony, welcomed the merger and praised Jackson for his efforts in the venture. "Michael Jackson is not only the most successful entertainer in history; he is also an astute businessman. Michael understands the importance of copyrights and the role they play in the introduction to new technologies."[SUP][17][/SUP]

ALSO:

He added that Jackson recognises Sony's "leadership in developing and realizing new technologies that serve to expand the creative horizon of artists such as himself".[SUP][17][/SUP]

(With VHS quality?)

Administrative expertise was provided by Sony, who installed Paul Russell as chairman. Jackson was a company director and attended board meetings regularly.[SUP][18][/SUP] As each party in the arrangement held the power of veto, both sides would have to agree on a decision before it could be made. If neither party agreed on a decisions, they would not be implemented.[SUP][18][/SUP]

 

[lom kit]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

One of the problems are the rights issue.

the other could be the film reels. in the 80s reels weren't treaten with care. they are damaged or in many cases even lost, destroyed (sometimes intentionaly). Like Jorge Lucas is claiming that the original negatives of Star wars don't exist anymore. and the masters done for the Special edition are the only source avaible. or the negatives are so badly that they need to be restored and new master to be created.

if film material really exist and if no master was created at the time, then depending on how they were secured all these years, it would be intensive work needed to be restored and mastered and that cost alot of money. so then the question comes up for the estate/sony is that whole effort really profitable.
It will be profitable only if they decide to make a theathical release then followed by release for the home-market. else they can't cover their cost with the usual salles of blu-ray, judging by the sales of the bucharest dvd.
if Noctrume didn't master the films, because Michael didnt ordered and they are just lying there, then someone must have a really good will all that work to be done, so we can have blu-ray one day.


People throw that "they just need to take the negatives to create the blu-ray" to easy.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

And WHERE would they be?


Thanks MJJLativa for your answer ;-)

Don't know. Probably Estate don't know either. Maybe stolen like many unreleased songs.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Damaged? Lost? Hello people, I still have all the stuff from the 80s, and even from the 70s. Tapes, video tapes, and it even survived a bloody war in Bosnia throughout the 90s. It's not a dinosaure fossile we are talking about.

 

[love is magical]

The publishing-rights, the copyrights are for sure in possesion of the Estate. In case there is someone who is in possesion of a concert he can never publish this concert without the Estate. It`s only for his private possesion. This story is a example for this:

A NEVER-before-seen backstage film of Michael Jackson's legendary Dangerous tour is set to fetch more than £4million when it goes up for auction later this month.
The documentary was made using state-of-the-art equipment.

But the King of Pop canned it and sacked the entire crew — before giving the only existing copy of the film to his DRIVER.

The unnamed chauffeur — who said he helped provide cars for the star when he performed in Sao Paolo, Brazil — claims the star gave it to him as a "reward or a bonus" for his "transportation services".

He kept the video a secret until after Jackson's death in 2009 when he put a short extract of it on YouTube.

Jackson's record label and lawyers demanded exclusive rights — but a court ruled in favour of the driver, saying the film had been a gift.

It was also ruled that he could not make copies of the video, so the man has now decided to put the tape up for sale.

That's the key. The drive could not make copies. He could not release the film commercially. Now, he's trying to make money by selling the film. And, who in the world would invest in something that couldn't be released commercially without the approval of the Michael Jackson Estate. Some private Michael Jackson collectors who just want to own the film to themselves? The best option for the driver is still to work out a deal with the Estate.

-So, with your last sentence you state that you think in the vault is not a good amount of treasure material.
Am i right?
-MJJLativa says the Bad Tour is on film FOR A FACT.
-Bumper says Michael has always had & kept all rights to the film material to himself.

All three above stated assertions can not be fulfilled.

Because either MJ had/kept all rights to himself - then all the rights would now be in the hands of the estate.
Am i right?
And then they could release what & whenever they want.

But you say the vault probably has not much treasures in there. Then where could it be?
And why do the parties in this case not get in contact and work out an agreement.

Of course i know all the rights to MJ's likeness and audio material is with the estate!
But where is the material???

Why would MJ leave the material with nocturne productions if he has all right to the material.
Why not store it in his vault?

If there is such a thing a vault..

Really I'm very interested in those infos.
And we see here that there are many different and differing opinions. And nobody knows ALL the facts to get the big picture & to close out all the big X & ?

I'm not sure. I would like to hope that there are a lot materials in the vault. But, based on the last couple official releases, I surely don't expect a large amount of treasure.

Bottom line is that no one knows about the finances of MJ in relation to the bad tour film. What we do know is that the Estate obviously does not have access to them and is not in possession of them. It's not like the estate is sitting on all these master tapes thinking "well we really should use that VHS tape guys!". The only options I can think of are
1) The entire concert possibly wasn't filmed (only certain songs)
2) Due to contractual issues: The masters are owned by Nocturne Productions and estate wasn't able to come to agreement with them in regards to finances. Most likely the company that owns the masters is greedy and expects a high amount since it's MJ.

Whatever the reasoning is, we aren't going to find out anytime soon. The Estate is not going to reveal important financial information and business propositions to the general public.

Assume the masters are owned by Nocturne Production and the company wants to profit from it. The company's best and only option is to work with the Estate. Everything related to MJ is valuable, but it's only valuable when the company can release them commercially. Without the Estate's authorization, the films can just sit there to collect dust.

Unless the Estate has other projects regarding the videos and doesn't want to hand it over to SONY. If it is true that MJ didn't want to release the video stuff when he was with SONY, maybe the Estate is continuing to respect his wish and are preparing videos for future projects. I am just being optimistic.

Yet, the Estate is willing to enter into 7-year deal with Sony... Bumpy, you are too optimistic this time! -_-

 

[Pentum]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Anyone interested in contacting Nocturne Production?

 

[lom kit]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

It realy doesn't make sense that Michael or anyone else didn't do filming the tour al least one show.

BUT

U2's "ZooTV" and Pink Floid " Puls" concerts are very good example. those two great shows were recorded only on video and now they regret that didn't record it on film. cause at the time no one saw reason to do it and no one would have thought that we will be able to watch on tv with more then 720x480p.

 

[Rudolf]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Like Jorge Lucas is claiming that the original negatives of Star wars don't exist anymore. and the masters done for the Special edition are the only source avaible. or the negatives are so badly that they need to be restored and new master to be created.

What Lucas claims is also not quite true I believe. There actually exsist copies and some of them are in hands of private individuals. Good informational site btw - http://savestarwars.com/
He does everything to not to release the Original Trilogy (unaltered) ultimately the fans are extremaly upset and many dislike his additions in SE's so they're making their own fan-edits. I'm following guy called Adywan who's now working on ESB:R (Empire Strikes Back: Revisited) since 2008 now. He has thousands of followers and his crew. He's basically investigating WHOLE movie. There ain't such shot which hasn't been improved somehow. He tried to make it the way it was originally but cooler (for example updating lightsabers and laser bolts which Lucas didn't do in all those SE's and rereleases of SE's for some reason. and thats the least of it. check out his screenshot and video compares). That guy with his crew and fans basically know every single frame of Star Wars OT movies (I'm not joking) and he's making better version with his zero budget that multibillionaire Lucas :doh:

 

[Remington Steele]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

He added that Jackson recognises Sony's "leadership in developing and realizing new technologies that serve to expand the creative horizon of artists such as himself".[SUP][17][/SUP]

(With VHS quality?)

:rofl: Best question raised in this thread.

They shot it in 1988 in high def or beyond... now over 20 years when digital home entertainment finally has reached that level, they release it on VHS definition from the 70ies...

Anyone interested in contacting Nocturne Production?

Uh... you obviously?

 

[dam2040]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Anyone interested in contacting Nocturne Production?

What for? It should be the Estate doing that. Not us.

 

[Remington Steele]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

I'm following guy called Adywan who's now working on ESB:R (Empire Strikes Back: Revisited) since 2008 now. He has thousands of followers and his crew. He's basically investigating WHOLE movie. There ain't such shot which hasn't been improved somehow. He tried to make it the way it was originally but cooler (for example updating lightsabers and laser bolts which Lucas didn't do in all those SE's and rereleases of SE's for some reason. and thats the least of it. check out his screenshot and video compares)...

Wow... good luck in court, it won't acquit him if he gives it away for free I suppose...

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

Damaged? Lost? Hello people, I still have all the stuff from the 80s, and even from the 70s. Tapes, video tapes, and it even survived a bloody war in Bosnia throughout the 90s. It's not a dinosaure fossile we are talking about.

Exactly! It's not like there was a disaster in California in 1990 that destroyed everything.

It realy doesn't make sense that Michael or anyone else didn't do filming the tour al least one show.

BUT

U2's "ZooTV" and Pink Floid " Puls" concerts are very good example. those two great shows were recorded only on video and now they regret that didn't record it on film. cause at the time no one saw reason to do it and no one would have thought that we will be able to watch on tv with more then 720x480p.

Okay... Let's assume none of the 123 concerts in the Bad Tour is recorded on film. Still, there must be better source than a VHS tape.

That statement from the official release is laughable if I don't have such a big desire for Bad Wembley.

 

[Pentum]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

What for? It should be the Estate doing that. Not us.

What do you think? To gain information on wether they actually do have all or some concerts or not on film.

 

[dam2040]

Re: Michael Jackson BAD25 - The Announcement We Have All Been Waiting For

What do you think? To gain information on wether they actually do have all or some concerts or not on film.

I'll contact them then. I'll also pass it on to the Estate.. If I got a response from Nocturne, how would I show the Estate?