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ALERT ALERT MJ Neverland News [check post #1 for updates]

wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
That's what Peter Pan represents though. Its why Michael called the ranch Neverland. Obviously, that particular story holds a lot of meaning for him. If you ever listen to Michael speak about this, that's the quality in the character which he admires and tries to emulate.
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That's probably true that Michael only sees the good side of Peter, which is alright, I guess. But honestly Peter's story to me is kinda disturbing. That's just me tho so none of y'all take me seriously, lol.
 
^^^ No I'm NOT speculating. I said we should wait for the WHOLE STORY instead of hedging our bets on unnamed sources. Don't parse my words, please. Thank you!

I never said I knew the whole story, did I? A little judicious research works wonders. All I've done is look up the legal terminology of the titles so no speculation on my part. Time after time after time I told members to proceed with caution & that's it. You unequivocally spoke with confidence and stated as FACT that a partnership was formed. What is your source that proves that? What is my proof that a financial transaction took place? The document titles and the meaning of those documents.
 
Well that's a beautful and admirable quality Michael also has. Seeing the good in all things. Though it can also be dangerous. That's another discussion though.
 
MJJmusicgeek said:
Bloody yeah! Because if he outright sold the property, he would've walked away with hundreds of millions of dollers! But the fact remains, he only sold the deed according to a ULL via California's Secretary of State. Everything else is up in the air until we hear from Michael's people.
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No, he wouldn't have made that much. I'm sure he carried much more debt that the original purchase price, or what it could have sold for on the open market. Have you owned a house/property? It's a huge asset in that it can be borrowed against, as collateral. Meaning, that if you can't pay the loans, the bank takes your house. It's happening all over the U.S. now. You build some equity, and then you can borrow. I've done it, many times (and paid it back, so far.) What it could mean is that the house and buildings and land had a value, and to reduce his debt, he essentially gave part of it back to the company that owns the mortgage on the property in exchange for less debt. That's what I think happened, logically.

The worth of the property is much more than the 35 mil exchanged. But this is a VERY troubled market, and that may have been what he could get and still retain the option of buying it back. I think It's what he had to do, and I'm sure he had reasons. . . . . .

We may NOT hear from Michael or his "people." Because? It's really none of our bidness? This is a private real-estate deal, and not a record release.

respectfully,

Victoria
 
troubleman84 said:
Peter Pan was also an arrogant, pompous person who got angry if people decided to "grow up" and leave Neverland and at the end of the story, he lived alone in Neverland. I think one of the posters at Maximum Jackson pointed that out, lol.

Who wants to be like that? :lol:

I rather MJ be Pinocchio. :lol:

And no I'm not talking about the Disney versions, lol.
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Errr.. Peter Pan is a fictional character (loosely based on a real boy but that's another story) who lives in a fictional world. Michael Jackson is a real person living a very real life. His life has had moments that seemed to follow the fictional one metaphorically but it has also had moments taken from countless of other stories. And to go from one fictional character to another is kinda...I dunno. :bugeyed Trading one fantasy you're not comfortable with for one you are comfortable with. Hmm....How about we let him be himself...whoever that is. :flowers:

Great posts, WBSS21. :)
 
wendy2004 said:
Errr.. Peter Pan is a fictional character (loosely based on a real boy but that's another story) who lives in a fictional world. Michael Jackson is a real person living a very real life. His life has had moments that seemed to follow the fictional one metaphorically but it has also had moments taken from countless of other stories. And to go from one fictional character to another is kinda...I dunno. :bugeyed Trading one fantasy you're not comfortable with for one you are comfortable with. Hmm....How about we let him be himself...whoever that is. :flowers:

Great posts, WBSS21. :)
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I was joking when I said that he should be Pinocchio, Wendy. :lol:

Peter Pan was based off one of the five boys its author J.M. Barrie befriended.
 
troubleman84 said:
I was joking when I said that he should be Pinocchio, Wendy. :lol:

Peter Pan was based off one of the five boys its author J.M. Barrie befriended.
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Lmao at your first sentence. It reads kinda funny...like a storybook. haha

Yes, I know the story of the Davies boys. That's who I was referring to when I said it was loosely based on a real boy. :flowers: You want to compare Michael to a fictional character, try Moby Dick. There's some real meat and inspirational metaphors in that one. Pinnocchio's got nothing on that whale of a tale! :p
 
i just saw them announce this on the news. it was like right as i came into the room a picture of him popped up on the tv lol. it was a little surreal though, and they showed this gorgeous footage of him at neverland probably from around 2004. i just had to stop and take stock.

and nice peter pan discussion you guys got going on :lol:
 
troubleman84 said:
I honestly think if he has retained some interest in the place, it's as an investment.
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Exactly.

Even IF he in fact got 35 mil out of their deal, I do not believe he "sold" it at all.
Colony may have bought some interest in the property...

Nor do I believe he "gave" it away...unless the agreement requires that the property be used for non-profit/charitable purposes.

Maybe he's given them a long term lease to use it as a golf course LOL!
Who knows? It could be used for numerous things within the zoning laws, which are subject to change in favor of their plans for the right cause/price.
 
Bob George said:
Wow. That's some news to wake up to.

I've always felt like Neverland is apart of Michael and it seemed like a place he put his heart and soul into building. So for that reason I'm a little sad he sold it. But there's a lot of negativity surrounding Neverland. The image of a grown man living in a place with ferris wheels and three houses. It's also, probably for Michael, holds the memory of the god-awful raid that took place in November, 2003 where they absolutely trashed the place looking for "evidence". So on the other hand I'm also kind of glad he's moved on from that part of his life. It'll be nice to see Michael, the fifty-year-old father of three, move into a nicer, dare I say "more normal" house. As his kids grow up they probably don't want to live in a fantasy land either. So this move is good for them too.
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The problem with this kind of attitude is, its what caused Michael all of his grief in the first place. Michael didn't let Neverland go because of how it looked. He let it go because of it no longer supplying him with a place to escape and a place of joy, but instead a place of pain and fear. Pain and fear which wouldn't have been there had people just let him be and not let their concieted, bull shit views of "normal" blind them to a beautiful thing. And as I always heard, adults who went to Neverland enjoyed the place as much as children. It was a quiet, serene place, it was a non-profit organization set up to help children who were sick and/or disadvantaged, and to help Michael himself recieve a recspit from his fame and to experience what he never could as a child. There was nothing strange about it and the place itself wasn't in any way negative. What was done to it was. I would hope Michael didn't sell it out of a want to look good. I know he didn't, in fact. Just like when he built it. He didn't care what it "looked" like. It was a dream of his and it didn't matter what people said. It's just too bad that an ugly world wouldn't allow a beautiful thing to be in it. It's the same thing with Michael himself. He's a beautiful person who lives in an ugly world and they won't allow him to live in peace because he doesn't fit in.
 
yea i acahally saw the news headline of it ealier on mtv Neverland has been sold.
Like they say u have to move on in life, and thats what hes doing. He will still ave the magic in him but not neverland.
 
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AllTheLovelyFlowers said:
Who said there was not a financial transaction? What I am saying is you still don't know the full story.




Simple. Neverland Valley Ranch is now partly owned by Sycamore Valley Ranch, LLC.





And you are not SPECULATING? Oh, ok!
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Hey, hey hey. Hold on now. Staff is just trying to help people understand what we do know. I think that it's fairly certain that there has been a title transfer of the property once known as NLVR to another party. There have been published reports that MJ retains an interest, but unless MJ himself, thru his spokesman say anymore, no one truly knows for certain.

What we also do know from MJ himself, is that he has been working with other parties to resolve issues he had with the NLVR mortgage. Now I don't really expect for MJ to say anything more about his personal affairs, but it does seem clear that NLVR in the way that we all know it is no more. What that means for the future, I dunno, but that era appears to be behind us now.
 
wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
The problem with this kind of attitude is, its what caused Michael all of his grief in the first place. Michael didn't let Neverland go because of how it looked. He let it go because of it no longer supplying him with a place to escape and a place of joy, but instead a place of pain and fear. Pain and fear which wouldn't have been there had people just let him be and not let their concieted, bull shit views of "normal" blind them to a beautiful thing. And as I always heard, adults who went to Neverland enjoyed the place as much as children. It was a quiet, serene place, it was a non-profit organization set up to help children who were sick and/or disadvantaged, and to help Michael himself recieve a recspit from his fame and to experience what he never could as a child. There was nothing strange about it and the place itself wasn't in any way negative. What was done to it was. I would hope Michael didn't sell it out of a want to look good. I know he didn't, in fact. Just like when he built it. He didn't care what it "looked" like. It was a dream of his and it didn't matter what people said. It's just too bad that an ugly world wouldn't allow a beautiful thing to be in it. It's the same thing with Michael himself. He's a beautiful person who lives in an ugly world and they won't allow him to live in peace because he doesn't fit in.
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I think in part Bob George was saying the same thing about what the ranch eventually came to represent, although how he views NLVR is clearly his opinion. I think it's clear that MJ had a different view of what it once meant to him.
 
Re: ALERT ALERT MJ News

Ape said:
Maybe the new owners will open it up like Graceland. ?? perhaps... I wonder if it would be a good thing for Michael if they did, or if he would have to give his permission for it and if he would. Just sharing my thoughts... hope no arguments come of that thought.
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hmm.. it would be a good thing i suppose. sceptics would go there just "fon fun" or out of curiousity but when they actually see Neverland - they'll have doubts whether they were right about him. even if they don't say it - they will have doubts if they have prejudices about him. cause only stone-hearted people cannot be touched by Michael's magic when they meet it face to face. and such people don't travel much. especially to Neverland. so it would be a good thing
 
MJJC MOD 1 said:
^^^ No I'm NOT speculating. I said we should wait for the WHOLE STORY instead of hedging our bets on unnamed sources. Don't parse my words, please. Thank you!
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I did not parse your words. And the only reason we are talking is because YOU attacked me for choosing to believe that the ranch is not fully sold.....which is my right.

I never said I knew the whole story, did I? A little judicious research works wonders. All I've done is look up the legal terminology of the titles so no speculation on my part. Time after time after time I told members to proceed with caution & that's it. You unequivocally spoke with confidence and stated as FACT that a partnership was formed. What is your source that proves that? What is my proof that a financial transaction took place? The document titles and the meaning of those documents.
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I don't like the condescending tone of this paragraph. I guess you can get away with that because you are a MODERATOR. And none of us know the whole story... that is why we are discussing it. I also did not state any facts. What I said was no lmore factual than what you said.

mello1 said:
Hey, hey hey. Hold on now. Staff is just trying to help people understand what we do know. I think that it's fairly certain that there has been a title transfer of the property once known as NLVR to another party. There have been published reports that MJ retains an interest, but unless MJ himself, thru his spokesman say anymore, no one truly knows for certain.

What we also do know from MJ himself, is that he has been working with other parties to resolve issues he had with the NLVR mortgage. Now I don't really expect for MJ to say anything more about his personal affairs, but it does seem clear that NLVR in the way that we all know it is no more. What that means for the future, I dunno, but that era appears to be behind us now.
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You know, everytime someone on this board attacks my posts, I get reprimanded by two or three moderators just for standing up for myself. I hope you guys realize that this is not right. It is not fair for you guys to get mad and attack people who don't believe that Michael has sold NL. I am entitled to my beliefs, speculations and comments just like everybody else. And I am amazed that a mod would not respect that when it is mods who are always warning us about respecting the opinions of others.
 
AllTheLovelyFlowers said:
You know, everytime someone on this board attacks my posts, I get reprimanded by two or three moderators just for standing up for myself. I hope you guys realize that this is not right. It is not fair for you guys to get mad and attack people who don't believe that Michael has sold NL. I am entitled to my beliefs, speculations and comments just like everybody else. And I am amazed that a mod would not respect that when it is mods who are always warning us about respecting the opinions of others.
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First of all, I don't think anyone on staff is reprimanding you. Certainly I was not doing so. But I do think that skin is a bit too thin here, meaning that the temp needs a bit turning in the down direction. If you want to believe that Neverland belongs to Michael, fine. All I was trying to say to you is that the public records do indeed indicate a deed transfer. Also, given that MJ has not lived in that place since he left it in 2005, I do think it's fair to say that things aren't going to be the same.

One more point. I have updated the first thread with some of the many news articles that have been posted here. This thread is very large and many members may not have read them all. One article talks of neighbors seeing moving trucks pulling into the property. Make of it that you will, but it is what it is.
 
Here's an excerpt from New York Times (though I got a little annoyed at the "late night visits with Macaulay Culkin" bit, lol):

Michael Jackson Grows Out of Neverland

Compiled by DAVE ITZKOFF
Published: November 13, 2008

The days of wine and roses and giraffes and late-night visits from Macaulay Culkin have formally come to an end at Neverland Ranch, the 2,500-acre property that Michael Jackson owned in Santa Ynez, Calif. On Monday Mr. Jackson filed a grant deed that transferred ownership of the property to the Sycamore Valley Ranch Company, The Associated Press reported. According to the report the company is a joint venture between Mr. Jackson and Colony Capital, the real-estate investment company owned by Tom Barrack, which purchased Mr. Jackson’s debt in May when he defaulted on a $24.5 million mortgage on the ranch. Mr. Jackson purchased the ranch and turned it into an amusement park in 1988 but has apparently not lived there in recent years, and it is believed to have fallen into disrepair.
 
mello1 said:
First of all, I don't think anyone on staff is reprimanding you. Certainly I was not doing so. But I do think that skin is a bit too thin here, meaning that the temp needs a bit turning in the down direction. If you want to believe that Neverland belongs to Michael, fine. All I was trying to say to you is that the public records do indeed indicate a deed transfer. Also, given that MJ has not lived in that place since he left it in 2005, I do think it's fair to say that things aren't going to be the same.

One more point. I have updated the first thread with some of the many news articles that have been posted here. This thread is very large and many members may not have read them all. One article talks of neighbors seeing moving trucks pulling into the property. Make of it that you will, but it is what it is.
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Mello, I know that the public records indicate a sale. If you read my post, conceded to that. And I appreciate you respecting my right to believe what I want. I don't believe that Michael has totally broken with Neverland. I believe that there is a joint venture between him and Colony. And my skin is not thin. I just don't like it when people attack me for not believing the way they do. We are all different, for God's sake. To say I wasn't attacked is not true. Read the post. This type of stuff needs to stop and I believe that the moderators need to start reading post before they reprimand people. How many times do you expect people to get beat up before they react? You guys need to do something about this, really.
 
Yo, was this posted?

neverlandGate.jpg

Neverland has changed hands

Neverland Never More
by William Etling

When his company bailed Michael Jackson out of foreclosure with a refinance of a twenty-three million dollar debt in May, insiders predicted it was only a matter of time before Tom Barrack took over the keys to the ranch.

It didn't take long. On Monday, November 10, Michael Jackson officially deeded over ownership of Neverland's 2,675 oak studded acres to Sycamore Valley Ranch Company, LLC. Neighbors said moving vans and merry-go-rounds have been rolling down Figueroa Mountain Road.

Unsurprisingly, the man Forbes calls Richest American #227, Thomas Barrack, and the LLC have a common mailing address, 1999 Avenue of the Stars, Suite 1200, Los Angeles, CA 90067.

Barrack, 61, has owned ranches in Santa Ynez for decades. His net worth is estimated at $2.0 billion. Early reports valued this deal at $35 million. Some sources said Jackson retained an interest.

From the Forbes profile: "Real estate kingpin attended U. of Southern California. Studied law at U. of San Diego, became international finance attorney. Worked on real estate side of Robert Bass' investment firm. Founded Colony Capital 1991. Made first fortune buying up bad real estate loans from struggling S&Ls. Today firm manages $25 billion. Invests in businesses with underlying real estate assets: casino (Station Casinos), hotels (Costa Smeralda in Sardinia). In May bought $23.5 million mortgage of Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch from Fortress Investment Group, brought financially troubled pop star to negotiation table."

He's known locally as a polo fanatic, and recently won approval for expanded wine operations at his sprawling Happy Canyon ranch/vineyard.

Calls to Barrack's home went unanswered, and his plans for Neverland are unknown. The ranch was called Sycamore Valley Ranch before Jackson bought it in 1988, when the stately tudor manor was built by Palm Springs developer William Bone.
 
AllTheLovelyFlowers said:
Mello, I know that the public records indicate a sale. If you read my post, conceded to that. And I appreciate you respecting my right to believe what I want. I don't believe that Michael has totally broken with Neverland. I believe that there is a joint venture between him and Colony. And my skin is not thin. I just don't like it when people attack me for not believing the way they do. We are all different, for God's sake. To say I wasn't attacked is not true. Read the post. This type of stuff needs to stop and I believe that the moderators need to start reading post before they reprimand people. How many times do you expect people to get beat up before they react? You guys need to do something about this, really.
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As I stated before, you were not being attacked. A staff member responded strongly to statements you strongly made. That's called a debate. No mod action was taken against you in that exchange. Now if you wish to discuss this part of your discussion some more, please feel free to PM me.

Thanks.
 
I posted the following on my site early today, it just contains a few random tidbits of info surrounding the speculation, for those interested... Obviously, solid details behind this deed transfer are still unknown.

http://mjjr.net/news-i351-8.html

MJJR.net Tidbits: Regarding the Sale of Neverland

While speculation remains at an all-time high behind the circumstances surrounding the $35 million sale of Neverland to a company that was co-founded by Michael Jackson, MJJR.net would like to offer up a few tidbits of information not reported elsewhere. First, Colony Capital in fact had a legal right to foreclose the property after acquiring the loan placed against it earlier this year, but they declined to do so. The current net assessed value of Neverland is $18,522,251, which includes estimates of $7,229,830 in land and mineral rights, $11,265,701 in improvements, and $33,720 in listed personal property (with a $7,000 exemption). The fact that Colony Capital paid nearly double the assessed value for the property has baffled numerous financial experts, but this move indicates that Colony Capital and Michael Jackson (with the newly co-founded Sycamore Valley Ranch Company LLC.) have future revenue-generating and revenue-sharing plans in mind. In fact, a source very close to and familiar with this Neverland transaction has stated in the past day that Michael Jackson and Colony Capital (Tom Barrack) are planning for, and pursuing, a number of exciting cooperative business projects, which will work to the benefit of all involved. This statement echoes the one that Michael Jackson gave back in May when Colony Capital first purchased the loan: "I am in discussions with Colony and Tom Barrack with regard to the Ranch and other matters that would allow me to focus on the future." The $35 million will cure any and all debt against the property while also leaving what is believed to be upwards of $10 million in extra funds when all is said and done. More developments can be expected in the coming months.
 
I saw that at Max-Jax and to tell you the truth, I don't see anything that refers to a "joint venture". It also looks like a sale by MJ to Tom Barrack if anything else meaning MJ's money situation is looking mighty better than it was when he was the sole owner.
 
hi everybody :waving: how is everybody doing today is everybody is o.k feel o.k i know all of you got broken heart like me cause what hear about MJ news about NeverLand is gone for good

so i wrote song call "Very Sad Year" is very sad song about MJ NeverLand home and and Fans who love him and support him and his home of love of dream
So go to the Fan Zone Thread call Rockstar's song o.k go read it the song of love of Neverland o.k :) :yes:
 
TSCM said:
I posted the following on my site early today, it just contains a few random tidbits of info surrounding the speculation, for those interested... Obviously, solid details behind this deed transfer are still unknown.

http://mjjr.net/news-i351-8.html

MJJR.net Tidbits: Regarding the Sale of Neverland

While speculation remains at an all-time high behind the circumstances surrounding the $35 million sale of Neverland to a company that was co-founded by Michael Jackson, MJJR.net would like to offer up a few tidbits of information not reported elsewhere. First, Colony Capital in fact had a legal right to foreclose the property after acquiring the loan placed against it earlier this year, but they declined to do so. The current net assessed value of Neverland is $18,522,251, which includes estimates of $7,229,830 in land and mineral rights, $11,265,701 in improvements, and $33,720 in listed personal property (with a $7,000 exemption). The fact that Colony Capital paid nearly double the assessed value for the property has baffled numerous financial experts, but this move indicates that Colony Capital and Michael Jackson (with the newly co-founded Sycamore Valley Ranch Company LLC.) have future revenue-generating and revenue-sharing plans in mind. In fact, a source very close to and familiar with this Neverland transaction has stated in the past day that Michael Jackson and Colony Capital (Tom Barrack) are planning for, and pursuing, a number of exciting cooperative business projects, which will work to the benefit of all involved. This statement echoes the one that Michael Jackson gave back in May when Colony Capital first purchased the loan: "I am in discussions with Colony and Tom Barrack with regard to the Ranch and other matters that would allow me to focus on the future." The $35 million will cure any and all debt against the property while also leaving what is believed to be upwards of $10 million in extra funds when all is said and done. More developments can be expected in the coming months.
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Thanks for that TSCM. That's kinda how I've been viewing it. Some folk thought that MJ walked away with 35 million, but the purchase of the note earlier this year [for 24 million] only meant that another third party brought the mortgage. Now that it sold for 35 million, it netted about 11 million and the question of course is where does that go? If there are future plans to develop the property, the 11 million could go towards that, I suppose.

But exactly what 'that' is, is of course the mystery...
 
Thanks for posting more of the info TSCM! :)
LOL I kind of get it now.. :lol: I liked how it was explained, haha.
 
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