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ALERT ALERT MJ Neverland News [check post #1 for updates]

mello1 said:
Thanks for that TSCM. That's kinda how I've been viewing it. Some folk thought that MJ walked away with 35 million, but the purchase of the note earlier this year [for 24 million] only meant that another third party brought the mortgage. Now that it sold for 35 million, it netted about 11 million and the question of course is where does that go? If there are future plans to develop the property, the 11 million could go towards that, I suppose.

But exactly what 'that' is, is of course the mystery...
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Yeah, it's definitely something to wonder and since the rides were taken out of the place, it's unclear what it would be turned into.
 
I belive they will turn it into a resort of some kind
It is now a biz venture and not his private home
but MJ has big plans for that property Im sure :)
he has not lost claim to it and still has interest
in that property
 
For those who are making statements about this sale with comments like
"it's about time he grew up" That is very condescending toward Michael :(

Being a child at heart does not mean that one is childish and not an adult _
he grew up to fast but chose to have a childlike heart which is NOT childish
There is a difference _ MJ is not letting go of his childlike heart as that is what
is a part of who he is and is what is so commendable about him and what keeps
him so youthful, inspiring and loving. It is an admirable quality for any human to have.
Michael has it more right than many of the so called adults in this wolrd _ His childlike
heart should not be diminished especially by people who "call" themselvs his fans.

He is still Peterpan in his heart _ he may have to
squelch that image for the media but that doesnt mean
he has lost that quality _ If you dont understand what that
means I feel sorry for you .. It is a huge part of who Michale is
he has explained many times what a child like heart means ..

Luv yu :)
 
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AllTheLovelyFlowers said:
Mello, I know that the public records indicate a sale. If you read my post, conceded to that. And I appreciate you respecting my right to believe what I want. I don't believe that Michael has totally broken with Neverland. I believe that there is a joint venture between him and Colony. And my skin is not thin. I just don't like it when people attack me for not believing the way they do. We are all different, for God's sake. To say I wasn't attacked is not true. Read the post. This type of stuff needs to stop and I believe that the moderators need to start reading post before they reprimand people. How many times do you expect people to get beat up before they react? You guys need to do something about this, really.
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Flowers, STOP. Just that, Just stop. Take a deep breath, and STOP.

peace,

Vic
 
I don't want him to change....even without Neverland I want him to stay the same
 
qbee said:
For those who are making statements about this sale with comments like
"it's about time he grew up" That is very condescending toward Michael :(

Being a child at heart does not mean that one is childish and not an adult _
he grew up to fast but chose to have a childlike heart which is NOT childish
There is a difference _ MJ is not letting go of his childlike heart as that is what
is a part of who he is and is what is so commendable about him and what keeps
him so youthful, inspiring and loving. It is an admirable quality for any human to have.
Michael has it more right than many of the so called adults in this wolrd _ His childlike
heart should not be diminished especially by people who "call" themselvs his fans.

He is still Peterpan in his heart _ he may have to
squelch that image for the media but that doesnt mean
he has lost that quality _ If you dont understand what that
means I feel sorry for you .. It is a huge part of who Michale is
he has explained many times what a child like heart means ..

Luv yu :)
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Totally agree. He's been an adult for much longer than his actual age indicates and many of us fans here. How could loyal fans say the kind of things the hostile media would say to make him look like someone living in a fantasy world? If he had built Neverland and maintained the property out of selfish reasons like, satisfying himself only, you could say that. But, the truth is not that. He healed himself and others by givin back and sharing.

Let's not foret this. He could've easily gone self-destructive with the kind of deep pain, like so many celebs do, but he was and is unbelievably resilient enough to overcome all of it by connecting himself to people in need. That's one respectable way to heal yourself. He was very down-to-earth in comin up with the idea of building Neverland and givin himself and others a therapeutic place to get the strength to face the cold world, once out of the gate.
 
While speculation remains at an all-time high behind the circumstances surrounding the $35 million sale of Neverland to a company that was co-founded by Michael Jackson, MJJR.net would like to offer up a few tidbits of information not reported elsewhere. First, Colony Capital in fact had a legal right to foreclose the property after acquiring the loan placed against it earlier this year, but they declined to do so. The current net assessed value of Neverland is $18,522,251, which includes estimates of $7,229,830 in land and mineral rights, $11,265,701 in improvements, and $33,720 in listed personal property (with a $7,000 exemption). The fact that Colony Capital paid nearly double the assessed value for the property has baffled numerous financial experts, but this move indicates that Colony Capital and Michael Jackson (with the newly co-founded Sycamore Valley Ranch Company LLC.) have future revenue-generating and revenue-sharing plans in mind. In fact, a source very close to and familiar with this Neverland transaction has stated in the past day that Michael Jackson and Colony Capital (Tom Barrack) are planning for, and pursuing, a number of exciting cooperative business projects, which will work to the benefit of all involved. This statement echoes the one that Michael Jackson gave back in May when Colony Capital first purchased the loan: "I am in discussions with Colony and Tom Barrack with regard to the Ranch and other matters that would allow me to focus on the future." The $35 million will cure any and all debt against the property while also leaving what is believed to be upwards of $10 million in extra funds when all is said and done. More developments can be expected in the coming months.

http://mjjr.net/news.php
 
but he IS a grown man he always was. I could make an entire essay on this but I don't wanna go off-topic
that's why I love him because he was never afraid of showing his true self...some people make it sound like he's giving up on his entire persona by selling Neverland
 
Mr. Jackson said, “I am pleased with recent developments involving Neverland Ranch and I am in discussions with Colony and Tom Barrack with regard to the Ranch and other matters that would allow me to focus on the future.”
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maybe he'll build the world's largest stadium, where ALL his fans can be in one giant concert!!:fortuneteller:
 
The current net assessed value of Neverland is $18,522,251, which includes estimates of $7,229,830 in land and mineral rights, $11,265,701 in improvements, and $33,720 in listed personal property
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ive never understood the above how can the property (if thats what your saying) be worth only 18 mill whne he bought it for 17 mill 20 years ago without even getting into all the xtras that have been added on. its not possible imo
 
elusive moonwalker said:
ive never understood the above how can the property (if thats what your saying) be worth only 18 mill whne he bought it for 17 mill 20 years ago without even getting into all the xtras that have been added on. its not possible imo
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I heard some small talk that Michael actually only paid around $14 million for the property back in '88. However, I was previously under the impression that Michael paid significantly more than the assessed price back in '88. The 17 million he reportedly offered for the property was said to have been turned down by Bone (who sought $32 million) and they ultimately settled at a compromised $28 million. If this is to be believed over the $14 million, then this was the most expensive lot purchase in history at the time and significantly more expensive than the assessed value. William Bone planned on developing a country club at the ranch but never got around to it,and at the time he also owned a string of condos and a resort. Regardless of what Michael originally paid, the values I posted are guaranteed accurate as of 2008 (and certainly are higher than what the property was valued at some 20 years ago).
 
am glad finally michael get rid of neverland, he sell neverland and they didnt take it from him.. its time to move on..
 
PANOS THE GREEK said:
am glad finally michael get rid of neverland, he sell neverland and they didnt take it from him.. its time to move on..
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Again, I do not believe Neverland is total out of his hands. Time will tell. It may not be called Neverland no more but it may still be something for Michael to make money from.
 
TSCM said:
I heard some small talk that Michael actually only paid around $14 million for the property back in '88. However, I was previously under the impression that Michael paid significantly more than the assessed price back in '88. The 17 million he reportedly offered for the property was said to have been turned down by Bone (who sought $32 million) and they ultimately settled at a compromised $28 million. If this is to be believed over the $14 million, then this was the most expensive lot purchase in history at the time and significantly more expensive than the assessed value. William Bone planned on developing a country club at the ranch but never got around to it,and at the time he also owned a string of condos and a resort. Regardless of what Michael originally paid, the values I posted are guaranteed accurate as of 2008 (and certainly are higher than what the property was valued at some 20 years ago).
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ok so presuming he paid 14 mil then a appreciation of only 4 mill doesnt sound right.isnt SB land the second most expensive land in the usa? (from what ive read) even for standard inflation its a very small increase in what the property is worth over a 20 year period b4 u add add on the extras mj put into the place. and its even more strange if u go with mj buying the property for 28. i just wonder about who actually did these estimates for the price of the ranch the other year?presumably those working for SB county. and then a guy barrack whos from SB comes and does a deal with mj. something smells to me thats all about these estimations they just dont sound logical. maybe ill have look on google and see what other property is for sale around that area and see whats been asked for it.

It may not be called Neverland no more
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the company that bought it is called sycamore doesnt mean the ranch is
 
just had alook at some sites and ranch land in the same area as MJ is being sold for 18.5 mill $ thats with almost a 30% reducation on the normal price and that is just land no houses or anything else is there and that is around 850 acres

which includes estimates of $7,229,830 in land and mineral rights
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yet the above is supposedly what mjs land is worth when its fair less than what i just posted above? yet mj land is far more the 850 acres.

or all added up they are saying the ranch is worth 17mill yet a peice of land thats 850acres(less than mj) very near to mj and has nothing built on it is going for nearly 23mill at full price.
 
^ I think some confusion lies within the sometimes significant difference between an assessed value and a market value of any property. Property can, and often does, sell for a significantly higher amount than the assessed value unless in cases of foreclosure etc... Here's some general info:

http://www.coloradospringsrealestat...gs-real-estate-assessed-value-vs-market-value

...many people confuse assessed value with market value.

Assessed value is the value that the county places on the property in reference to how much that property will be taxed. Assessed value is not even taken into consideration when appraising a property, in most situations.

Market value is how much a ready, willing and able buyer will pay for a property.

I have never seen a case, in the real estate market in Colorado Springs where assessed value was equal to or higher than how much a home sold for. The assessed value is generally a bit lower...

However, having a lower assessed value is a GOOD thing. As a homeowner, we do not want to be paying taxes on a value that is MORE than the property could actually sell for.
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http://www.fiftystatesfsbo.com/House-value.htm

http://www.zillow.com/wikipages/Assessed-Values-vs-Appraised-Values

etc...
 
many people confuse assessed value with market value.

Assessed value is the value that the county places on the property in reference to how much that property will be taxed. Assessed value is not even taken into consideration when appraising a property, in most situations.

Market value is how much a ready, willing and able buyer will pay for a property.

I have never seen a case, in the real estate market in Colorado Springs where assessed value was equal to or higher than how much a home sold for. The assessed value is generally a bit lower...

However, having a lower assessed value is a GOOD thing. As a homeowner, we do not want to be paying taxes on a value that is MORE than the property could actually sell for.
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ok obviously things are different in different countries. over her with have different tax brackets depending on how big you house is and depending on that you pay a certain amount of tax. ie have a tiny house pay a small amount of tax have a huge house you pay alot.

so is the 17 mill figure bascially like a tax bracket that neverland fits into? but why underprice it surely if they said its worth 30 mill for ex it would pay more tax? or am i totally wrong?
 
elusive moonwalker said:
ok obviously things are different in different countries. over her with have different tax brackets depending on how big you house is and depending on that you pay a certain amount of tax. ie have a tiny house pay a small amount of tax have a huge house you pay alot.

so is the 17 mill figure bascially like a tax bracket that neverland fits into? but why underprice it surely if they said its worth 30 mill for ex it would pay more tax? or am i totally wrong?
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Right. Things are different in different countries. In the U.S., as was mentioned, tax value is usually significantly different that the value of a property on an open market. The selling price is usually much more. Complicating this, is that in the past the property had been classified as "farmland." A primary reason why Michael had cattle on the ranch was to secure the "farmland" designation for a large tax savings. So if the land is still tax-valued as farmland, that would make the "taxable value" look deceptively low. A pasture "seems to be" worth far less than the same piece of land slated for a housing development. So the goal is to keep the tax value low, and the selling price high, because they are two different things. It's quite complicated. . . . .

Vic
 
ok thanks vic i get it now. so the whole thing about not getting why they rate it as being worth 17mill is irrelevent cause its a tax thing and not what it is actually worth on the open market.

Right. Things are different in different countries. In the U.S., as was mentioned, tax value is usually significantly different that the value of a property on an open market. The selling price is usually much more
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just speaking generally thats a strange thing to have. surely the goverment is losing out on alot of money by having houses rated at less then they are worth so ppl save on the tax they have to pay
 
elusive moonwalker said:
ok thanks vic i get it now. so the whole thing about not getting why they rate it as being worth 17mill is irrelevent cause its a tax thing and not what it is actually worth on the open market. just speaking generally thats a strange thing to have. surely the goverment is losing out on alot of money by having houses rated at less then they are worth so ppl save on the tax they have to pay
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In the U.S., property taxes are not Federal, but determined by the region, i.e. town or county. In other words, there is no national property tax. The amount of taxes can vary widely depending on the region. Some regions have VERY high property tax, which is used for schools, local improvements, and so forth. Just as we have roads/highways some of which are nationally owned and maintained, some by county, and some by city or town. VERY complicated. Plus, we are in the middle of a housing slump. What N/L was worth five years ago might actually be much less in the present. Which confuses things even further.

Growing grapes, and wineries, are lucrative in the Santa Barbara area. N/L is prime agricultural land for growing grapes for wine. Just a thought. . . . .

Vic
 
TSCM said:
I heard some small talk that Michael actually only paid around $14 million for the property back in '88. However, I was previously under the impression that Michael paid significantly more than the assessed price back in '88. The 17 million he reportedly offered for the property was said to have been turned down by Bone (who sought $32 million) and they ultimately settled at a compromised $28 million. If this is to be believed over the $14 million, then this was the most expensive lot purchase in history at the time and significantly more expensive than the assessed value. William Bone planned on developing a country club at the ranch but never got around to it,and at the time he also owned a string of condos and a resort. Regardless of what Michael originally paid, the values I posted are guaranteed accurate as of 2008 (and certainly are higher than what the property was valued at some 20 years ago).
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I agree. I thought that MJ paid around 24 mil for the property in the 80's. When I saw your valuation, I had to conclude that he paid way over the assessed value in '88. However, I still figured that the property would inflate to be far more valuable than the 35 it sold for, but given the current housing market, especially in California, he got off good. I thought that I read somewhere that his tax valuation was based on 90 mil. Sounds to me that he should have had his property reassessed for tax purposes because the tax valuation is almost always lower than the property's fair market value.
 
I still figured that the property would inflate to be far more valuable than the 35 it sold for, but given the current housing market, especially in California, he got off good.
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but if he owed 23 mill on it then to walk away with 35 mill for the full property if that is the case and its not just a % that colony bought then really he got $58 for it
 
i don't why we go through so much ... but anyway :cheeky:

those paragraphs are the best ( i think :scratch:) to describe

what the case is with Neverland :


Deed of trust

In some jurisdictions, a deed of trust is used as an equivalent to a mortgage. A trust deed isn’t like the other types of deeds; it’s not used to transfer property directly. It is commonly used in some states (California, for example) to transfer title to land to a “trustee,” usually a trust or title company, which holds the title as security ("in escrow") for a loan. When the loan is paid off, title is transferred to the borrower by recording a release of the obligation and the trustee's contingent ownership is extinguished. Otherwise (upon default), the trustee will liquidate the property (with a new deed) and offset the lender's loss with the proceeds.
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escrow account are :

  1. 'an account established by a broker under the provisions of the license law for the purpose of holding funds on behalf of the broker's principal or some other person until the consummation or termination of a transaction' or
  2. 'a trust account held in the borrower's name to pay obligations such as property taxes and insurance premiums'.
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i think it's something between those lines
or something among what i found in those two pages :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escrow

----------------------

all i'm sayin is don't get too emotional

because of the way it's written in the news coverage

they always write stuff like it's the end of the world

while it can be just a business move ...

with nobody really knowing the details

so ;D




 
elusive moonwalker said:
but if he owed 23 mill on it then to walk away with 35 mill for the full property if that is the case and its not just a % that colony bought then really he got $58 for it
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And this is where we have to stop the "investigation," due to lack of information? We have NO way of knowing how much he owed on the property because he may have borrowed against it (refinanced) to gain cash liquidity. So that is private info that only Michael and his accountants/lawyers know.

Suppose I buy a house for $200,000 and pay on it for ten years. The bank actually owns the house, and I make payments. During that ten years, I've built up equity, which is like a part-ownership of my house. I may now owe only (only?) $110,000. I can then borrow up to $90,000 against the amount I've paid in -- the equity. This is called a "second-mortgage." I can even borrow the original value of the house, or more if the assessment has gone up. I can use this money to pay off bills, take a trip, buy another property, or whatever. The payments go down to the beginning again, and I make payments and gradually own more and more of my own house (the house that the bank actually owns). There is no way for the public to know if I've borrowed against the equity in my house. And there is no way to know if Michael did the same. See what I mean?

Victoria
 
elusive moonwalker said:
but if he owed 23 mill on it then to walk away with 35 mill for the full property if that is the case and its not just a % that colony bought then really he got $58 for it
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I'm not sure how you calculated that, but the fair mkt value is basically what you get at the time of sale. I had once figured that, based on the Santa Barbara housing mkt, NLVR would be worth 100 million.

Oprah Winfrey bought property there and paid 50 million for a place only appraised at 25 mil, I believe. I know someone who moved there and they had to end up renting a house because the market values had skyrocketed after the Winfrey sale.

But Winfrey's total acreage is far less than Jackson's was, although I believe her property was closer to the ocean than Jackson's.

Now the market has totally flipped in California and houses have devalued a lot there.

But to your point, MJ had a mortgage of 24 mil, which Colony bought out this summer. MJ still owed that 24 mil, only to a different entity. At best, with a 35 mil sale, he would only walk away with about 11 mil in a straight sale.
 
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mello1 said:
I'm not sure how you calculated that, but the fair mkt value is basically what you get at the time of sale. I had once figured that, based on the Santa Barbara housing mkt, NLVR would be worth 100 million.

Oprah Winfrey bought property there and paid 50 million for a place only appraised at 25 mil, I believe. I know someone who moved there and they had to end up renting a house because the market values had skyrocketed after the Winfrey sale.

But Winfrey's total acreage is far less than Jackson's was, although I believe her property was closer to the ocean than Jackson's.

Now the market has totally flipped in California and houses have devalued a lot there.

But to you point, MJ had a mortgage of 24 mil, which Colony bought out this summer. MJ still owed that 24 mil, only to a different entity. At best, with a 35 mil sale, he would only walk away with about 11 mil in a straight sale.
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This is correct. But, we don't know what else was borrowed against that, or what liens were on the property. A lien is what is taken by creditors after a sale, before the seller gets anything. It can be the IRS taking the amount of the lien, or the state, or county taxes, for example. So my point is, we don't know HOW much he walked away with. Nor should we?

It does seem to me, that even with the housing market slump and devaluation of real-estate, that the property was worth MUCH more than the 35 mil. That is troubling. . .

moving right along,


Vic
 
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