you can be a Great Artist and not write songs?

Yes it does. ANYBODY can learn to play an instrument just as anybody can learn to do all of those other things you mentioned. It depends on the PERSON who is being taught, how well they take to what they are learning, and how discplined and determined they are about learning it. And the only "difference" between Madonna playing Guitar and Jimi Hendrix playing it is that one is obviously better at it then the other. Though thats not saying that Madonna can't one day decide that she wants to become just as good as Jimi and begin to take the steps she needs in order to accomplish that. The point is: Jimi didn't just come out the womb playing the guitar...he was taught how to, wether by a teacher, or by himself through watching or listening to others. It was TAUGHT to him, it was not a natural gift.
So you're saying that if Victor Borge took dancing lessons, and was really disciplined and focused really hard, he can be just as good or better than Mike. If you say so. What about people like Mozart, who started playing at 3?
 
This debate always reminds me of the question in Naruto of the difference between Rock Lee and Sasuke. Sasuke has a kekkei genkai- a natural god given abilty that almost destines them for greatest. And some are like Rock Lee who worked hours and hours and hours each day just to separate himself. "Some people are born great, some achieve greatest..." In Naruto, they say that a regular person cannot be taught to be a genius. A genius is born. They show through Rock Lee that it is indeed possible. But they also show it is an exception to the rule. What a person who is not born talented has to put in in terms of time in order to measure up to someone who is born talented is often so phenominal that they don't even attempt. Or they make a feeble attempt and are always overshadowed. And when you have someone who is born talented and still practices nonstop, you get an MJ. This is just MHO.
 
ummm i dont know... like Duran Duran said the average listener does not care who writes the songs...

I do care. i think Edith Piaf was a hell of a singer a great artist, she didnt wrote most of my favorites of her, for instance La Vie In Rose was co writen by her and i dont like that one hahaha, weird :lol:


its complex, if the artist is very expressive has a great way of connecting to the song i think its wonderful, some people write all of their songs and then you hear them and is like NOTHING.... actually there are many many MANY of those i would say the most, but this is very very ummmm,

its cause there are very few that are EXCELENT singer/songwriters at the SAME TIME thats only for VERY VERY i mean VERY FEW people, UNIQUE ones, to me the most clear example is Michael, he could do ALL EXCELENT and he would also sing others people songs and just EXCELENT like if he would own them... wow, what a wonderful talent, one of a kind.

But like Duran Duran said the average listener does not care.
 
So you're saying that if Victor Borge took dancing lessons, and was really disciplined and focused really hard, he can be just as good or better than Mike. If you say so. What about people like Mozart, who started playing at 3?
What I'm saying is that an INSTRUMENT can be taught while being able to emot and interprate a song to the point where you take your audience on an emotional journey that stays with them for YEARS can't be.
 
^^^^you have to be BORN with it, as simple as that... you just cannot TEACH talent... you can be better if you try hard but never wonderful. That comes naturally, its a gift
 
What I'm saying is that an INSTRUMENT can be taught while being able to emot and interprate a song to the point where you take your audience on an emotional journey that stays with them for YEARS can't be.
Some people say this about John Coltrane, Ravi Shankar, Miles Davis, Carlos Santana, Lonnie Liston Smith, and many other instrumentalists. How to sing can be taught just like an instrument can, but it doesn't mean they will sound good or have any talent.
 
Some people say this about John Coltrane, Ravi Shankar, Miles Davis, Carlos Santana, Lonnie Liston Smith, and many other instrumentalists. How to sing can be taught just like an instrument can, but it doesn't mean they will sound good or have any talent.

I agree with you. :yes:
 
I dont know about this but in my opinion, I think a musician should at least able to write some songs,play some instruments and compose songs. Just like Michael and some other great performer back in the oldies. It's true mostly now some performers did not write and compose the song themselves but were blessed with good songs to sing to. I think it's good to credit the writer and composer for the song ?
 
What I'm saying is that an INSTRUMENT can be taught while being able to emot and interprate a song to the point where you take your audience on an emotional journey that stays with them for YEARS can't be.

Singing can be taught as well. Every form of art can be taught. I don't get your point.
Ps: I'm not sure if you know this, but singing is actually playing an instrument (voice = instrument).
 
Singing can be taught as well. Every form of art can be taught. I don't get your point.
Ps: I'm not sure if you know this, but singing is actually playing an instrument (voice = instrument).
Yes. Thank you. I did know that.

My POINT was that while an instrument can be taught, being able to sing with that special kind of MAJIC can't be. Sure you can teach a person how to carry a tune (a la Rihanna, Britney) but to be able to SANG can't be. (maybe I should say IMO, maybe that will bring my point across better)
 
This is a really good question.

I would say - yes. Simply because an artist can own a song just by singing it. It depends on how you interpret the song. Whitney Houston (pre- Waiting to Exhale) is a good example of a good artist and she never picked up a pen. But I have a higher respect for someone that writes their own material and plays a huge role in the creative process. I enjoy hearing the connections between the songs and the artist personally.
 
Yes. Thank you. I did know that.

My POINT was that while an instrument can be taught, being able to sing with that special kind of MAJIC can't be. Sure you can teach a person how to carry a tune (a la Rihanna, Britney) but to be able to SANG can't be. (maybe I should say IMO, maybe that will bring my point across better)

I do agree that being able to sing like many great vocalists is a gift but I also believe that there are instrumentalists that are gifted. It's more then just knowing how to play the instrument. It's deeper than that.
 
Being a great vocalist is an art form in itself. If you have the ability to emote and have brilliant control and style, and quality, then you're an artist. It's not like being a karaoke singer when you are born with a real gift. Not just anyone can get up there and sing like Dionne Warwick or Celine Dion, both of whom don't write their own music, but are amazing vocalists. Or someone like Barbra Streisand or Billie Holiday, they don't write their own music, but it doesn't take away from their brilliance as vocalists. Or great classical singers like Andrea Bocellli or Pavoratti. Technical brillaince as a vocalist is rare, it is. An American Idol could never compare to a world class singer like Whitney Housten. Anyway though, obviously, if you are a brilliant vocalist and songwriter, like Michael, you're more talented then someone who is just a brilliant vocalist. But if you're an average singer and songwriter, like Ne-Yo, someone who is a brilliant vocalist is more talented then you. It's all about quality over quantity. If a singer makes you feel, it doesn't matter if they wrote the words or no, they've created emotion, which is the goal of any artist. It's rare to have world class talent in any area, it's even more rare to have world class talent in more then one area, and if you're like Michael, who has world class talent in 4 or so areas, then you're just a freak, lol.
Finally!!!!! Welcome back wannabestartinsomthin21 :)


People act like if you play an instrument, you're technically an artist and I don't think that's entirely true. Back in like decades before the Beatles, if you can sing a song with a great vocal style and technique, you were considered a talent and an artist, I'm sure playing instruments add to it but yeah I feel you can be a great artist and not necessarily be a songwriter or musician. Sure it wouldn't hurt to do so but to think that you'll be an artist just because you write songs is only part of the puzzle, really.
Very good post
 
Singing WELL or better stated GRACIOUS and beautifully is one of the MOST DIFFICULT ART FORMS THAT EXIST, you have it or you dont, it comes all together with your physical shape, you have to be BORN with the INSTRUMENT, you cannot BUY that PARTICULAR INSTRUMENT
 
I don't think you can call an artist, "artist", if they do not write their songs.

They are performers.
 
Yes. Being a great artist, I think, takes a certain amount of artistic control over your works and songwriting is one of the significant ways to gain that control, but not the only way. It's a great gift to have, but when you just don't have it in you, don't go around shouting "I'm a songwriter" when you just fix melodies here and there and get album credits. Sit your ass down and keep focusing on what you got.
 
Yes. Being a great artist, I think, takes a certain amount of artistic control over your works and songwriting is one of the significant ways to gain that control, but not the only way. It's a great gift to have, but when you just don't have it in you, don't go around shouting "I'm a songwriter" when you just fix melodies here and there and get album credits. Sit your ass down and keep focusing on what you got.

Well said.


Its more to being a great artist then just being a good singer. ANYBODY can sing a song and anybody can be a great singer but what makes a great artist is someone who has 100% input in there craft. Thats what makes them an "artist" A artist creates. Songwriting, Producing, arrannging, etc. No singer today does any of that. They only lie to the public and cover the amount of input they really do which is nothing. I really dont have that much of a problem with singers who dont write there songs because there just "singers". Nothing more or nothing less just singers. The ONLY problem I have is when singers get credit for being artists and songwriters when there not.
 
Playing an instrument takes alot more Skill than to Sing a Song :( I'm a professional Piano player and i can assure you it is not an easy instrument, Singers have the easiest Job in the World theres alot more pressure on Band Members performing than say the main act, say if the Guitarist or Drummers misses a beat, the Singer ends up going out of time because of the mistake, not everything gets centred around a Singer that's just very naive
 
I disagree, they both take a lot of skill. First off, I believe that singing well is a gift. No matter how much practice one gets, most will never sound like Whitney Houston or Barbra Streisand. No amount of vocal training is going to make most people sing that good. Being able to sing well is definitely a gift and not something that can be taught. You can get better and improve your voice, but if the ability is not there naturally, you will never be a great singer. Being able to play instruments is something that can be taught, but how well one plays varies of course. It's definitely a lot of hard work and I do think that some people just have more natural ability than others.

Neither of these professions should be downplayed imo. Both singing and playing instruments is hard work and requires a lot of dedication and focus.
 
No singer today does any of that.
That's not true. Raul Midon, Esperanza Spalding, Debra Killings, Eric Benet, Stevie Wonder, Prince, Oumou Sangare, Candy Dulfer, Ani DiFranco, Sting, George Michael, Wendy & Lisa, and many others recording today do their own stuff.
 
That's not true. Raul Midon, Esperanza Spalding, Debra Killings, Eric Benet, Stevie Wonder, Prince, Oumou Sangare, Candy Dulfer, Ani DiFranco, Sting, George Michael, Wendy & Lisa, and many others recording today do their own stuff.

None of those are today's "new" artists though. That's what mjcarousal meant.
 
None of those are today's "new" artists though. That's what mjcarousal meant.
Raul & Esperanza are new. They came out within the last 4 or 5 years. There's also Lizz Wright, Donnie, Chrisette Michele, & Kem.
 
Playing an instrument takes alot more Skill than to Sing a Song :( I'm a professional Piano player and i can assure you it is not an easy instrument, Singers have the easiest Job in the World theres alot more pressure on Band Members performing than say the main act, say if the Guitarist or Drummers misses a beat, the Singer ends up going out of time because of the mistake, not everything gets centred around a Singer that's just very naive



They both have their difficult, one is not easier than other. My mom plays the piano too so and my entire family play an instrument to some extent. However, none of us can sing to save our lives even if we practice for the next 50 years. We simply don't have the talent to sing. However, you can only be so-so talented and still learn to play an instrument very well. You may not be jamming with Slash, but you will be decent enough to perhaps play backup or studio. A so-so singer, however, is hard to cover and even harder to fine one who truly talented.

On subject, if you can sing your butt off you don't have to write your own songs. Writing your own songs is good and you get the full royalties, but it is nothing that would make or break a singer. Very few people actually care who writes a song as long as the artist can deliver it.

My favorite song of Michael was Man in the Mirror and he didn't write it. However, the way he sang it, he made that song his own. That song is a Michael Jackson song forever and he did not write that masterpiece.

So, you can be a great artist without writing songs.
 
That's not true. Raul Midon, Esperanza Spalding, Debra Killings, Eric Benet, Stevie Wonder, Prince, Oumou Sangare, Candy Dulfer, Ani DiFranco, Sting, George Michael, Wendy & Lisa, and many others recording today do their own stuff.

OF COURSE.....

I was speaking on the current heavy rotation radio mainstream artists.
 
Raul & Esperanza are new. They came out within the last 4 or 5 years. There's also Lizz Wright, Donnie, Chrisette Michele, & Kem.

Shes good but she is not that commercial either and I dont consider her "mainstream"

Mainstream as in Beyonce, Rihanna, Justin Timberlake, Chris Brown etc
 
Shes good but she is not that commercial either and I dont consider her "mainstream"

Mainstream as in Beyonce, Rihanna, Justin Timberlake, Chris Brown etc
But to me, the topic isn't really about who's mainstream or popular, but if it makes a difference if an act writes their own material or not. Acts like Miles Davis, Frank Zappa, or Bob Dylan were never mainstream or had any hit songs, but were held in high esteem with certain audiences and their stuff still sells today. But back on the main topic, I don't think self-writing is anything that important. An act can make more money in some cases if they write their own stuff, but as far as quality, it doesn't matter. The Supremes were very popular and they didn't write anything.
 
But to me, the topic isn't really about who's mainstream or popular, but if it makes a difference if an act writes their own material or not. Acts like Miles Davis, Frank Zappa, or Bob Dylan were never mainstream or had any hit songs, but were held in high esteem with certain audiences and their stuff still sells today. But back on the main topic, I don't think self-writing is anything that important. An act can make more money in some cases if they write their own stuff, but as far as quality, it doesn't matter. The Supremes were very popular and they didn't write anything.

I understand the question was not about who was popular. I was clarifying that for you because you thought I was talking about artists period, when really it was just TODAYS mainstream artists my post was projected to because some of them are praised for having creative input in ther music when they dont which is unfair because they are not real artists.

Ur right, just because an artist doesnt write there own songs doesnt make them bad. I think it doesnt really make them an "artist" however because an artist creates whether that being in writing music or composing a piece of music. The thread was asking what MAKES a great artist and what makes a great artist is an artist who can sing, write, produce etc basically have creative input in there craft. Thats what makes a Great Artist but like you said you dont have to be songwriter to be a artist I just think the title should be singer because all your really doing is singing a song someone else wrote. That doest require creativity.
 
Thats what makes a Great Artist but like you said you dont have to be songwriter to be a artist I just think the title should be singer because all your really doing is singing a song someone else wrote. That doest require creativity.
Actually, it can. Listen to the original version of Respect by Otis Redding (who wrote it), and listen to Aretha Franklin's cover. She took the song and did something totally different with it. Aretha wrote some of her songs, but she also did a lot of covers. Isaac Hayes was famous in the early 70s for covering pop hits and making them 15 minutes long. It was like they were a totally different song when he did them. Also theres the Isley Bothers's remake of Todd Rundgren's song Hello It's Me. Ronald Isley does something different as well as with other songs like Seals & Crofts' Summer Breeze. Many people say the J5's "Who's Loving You" is better than the earlier versions by The Miracles or The Temptations. Several Motown writers during the 1960s have said that Marvin Gaye would do something that was different from how the songs were written. Smokey Robinson said that he "Marvinized" the songs, lol. On the other hand, just because someone writes a song doesn't mean it has a special meaning or that they are creative. Look at the average K.C. and the Sunshine Band song. They usually had very simple lyrics that were about parties and fun and 'shaking your booty', lol. But they had somewhat complex musical arrangements however. Or look at an act like 2 Live Crew. They wrote their lyrics, but it's all smut. So it can go both ways.
 
Actually, it can. Listen to the original version of Respect by Otis Redding (who wrote it), and listen to Aretha Franklin's cover. She took the song and did something totally different with it. Aretha wrote some of her songs, but she also did a lot of covers. Isaac Hayes was famous in the early 70s for covering pop hits and making them 15 minutes long. It was like they were a totally different song when he did them. Also theres the Isley Bothers's remake of Todd Rundgren's song Hello It's Me. Ronald Isley does something different as well as with other songs like Seals & Crofts' Summer Breeze. Many people say the J5's "Who's Loving You" is better than the earlier versions by The Miracles or The Temptations. Several Motown writers during the 1960s have said that Marvin Gaye would do something that was different from how the songs were written. Smokey Robinson said that he "Marvinized" the songs, lol. On the other hand, just because someone writes a song doesn't mean it has a special meaning or that they are creative. Look at the average K.C. and the Sunshine Band song. They usually had very simple lyrics that were about parties and fun and 'shaking your booty', lol. But they had somewhat complex musical arrangements however. Or look at an act like 2 Live Crew. They wrote their lyrics, but it's all smut. So it can go both ways.

Yep, not all artist who can write thier songs write good songs. :yes: Some are songs can be sucky. Hence why I don't look at this when searching for a good artist.
 
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