Xscape chart positions. (incl. singles)

The fact is that if Epic didn't consciously killed Xscape promotion, there would still be at least 2 MJ albums on Hot 200. Xscape + Greatest Hits collection or Thriller.

There is no 'drama'. There is only poor judgement and poor decisions made by Epic Records. Probably because they are making tons of money from Meghan Trainor (All About That Bass) and Fifth Harmony and they don't care about Michael Jackson anymore.

NOT TRUE.

Last year, and. The year before, and the year before that, MJ's catalogue albums left the charts during November! and did not come back until January. As I said, it happens every Xmas.

If MJ had been cynical enough, he could have released an album of Xmas songs whilst he was alive, and that would have entered the charts for 2 months each and every year. He didn't. He was above all that nonsense.

Number Ones, Essential, etc. will be back in the BB200 next year. Xscape has nothing to do with them leaving the charts each November. That is historical fact.
 
Number Ones, Essential, etc. will be back in the BB200 next year. Xscape has nothing to do with them leaving the charts each November. That is historical fact.

BUT IF they didn't kill Xscape promotion, there WOULD still be Xscape + Number Ones or Essential on the charts. THIS YEAR, not year before, and the year before that.
 
BUT IF they didn't kill Xscape promotion, there WOULD still be Xscape + Number Ones or Essential on the charts. THIS YEAR, not year before, and the year before that.

We don't know that for sure. Even if Xscape was still charting the other albums could still be out due to all Xmas releases and new albums by big names that happen in the 4Q. Especially if Xscape is charting lower...... so we can't really know.
 
If MJ had been cynical enough, he could have released an album of Xmas songs whilst he was alive, and that would have entered the charts for 2 months each and every year. He didn't. He was above all that nonsense.
But I wish he had, though, only for selfish reasons. I'd love to hear it and have it.
The closest thing I have is the Jackson 5 Christmas album and I love that.
 
But I wish he had, though, only for selfish reasons. I'd love to hear it and have it.
The closest thing I have is the Jackson 5 Christmas album and I love that.

I would have loved an adult MJ christmas album too.

The J5 Christmas album is my favorite christmas album - and I am sure an adult MJ christmas album would have been even better!! - But that's never gonna happen. :(
 
I always thought at Christmas albums as a cheep shot at success and sales. It's something that is OK from the J5 but I think adult Michael is above that.
 
BUT IF they didn't kill Xscape promotion, there WOULD still be Xscape + Number Ones or Essential on the charts. THIS YEAR, not year before, and the year before that.

No, the catalogue albums would still have left the charts. MJ's catalogue sales are spread way to thin, over too many albums. There are always way too many bigger selling Xmas albums this time of year. The charts simply can not sustain very many, if any, 'non-Xmas' catalogue albums - Xscape, or no Xscape.

I am not making this up. It's all there for people to see, if they want to look at previous November/December charts. MJ's albums always leave the charts for a couple of months.

If Xscape was released later in the year, it MAY have stayed in the charts over November/December - although there is no guarantee of that. But because, as I have said before, MJ has catalogue sales spread over quite a few different albums, it would not have made a chart difference to Number Ones, Essential, etc.

You can argue with me all day long, but US and UK charts are something I have kept an eye on for years. Can you say the same?
 
No, the catalogue albums would still have left the charts. MJ's catalogue sales are spread way to thin, over too many albums. There are always way too many bigger selling Xmas albums this time of year. The charts simply can not sustain very many, if any, 'non-Xmas' catalogue albums - Xscape, or no Xscape.

I am not making this up. It's all there for people to see, if they want to look at previous November/December charts. MJ's albums always leave the charts for a couple of months.

If Xscape was released later in the year, it MAY have stayed in the charts over November/December - although there is no guarantee of that. But because, as I have said before, MJ has catalogue sales spread over quite a few different albums, it would not have made a chart difference to Number Ones, Essential, etc.

I don't care about "previous November/December charts". Are you reading my posts? If Epic didn't kill Xscape promotion, for example if they released Xscape (song) as a single with remixes or Chicago and made great short film, if they sent the song to all radio stations (NOT JUST URBAN AC) - Xscape album would still be on the charts. And with that, there would also be at least one (1) more MJ album on the charts - probably Number Ones OR Essential.

Give me an example of last time when you kept an eye on US and UK charts when MJ had a hit single and successful album out? That didn't happen in the last 13 years, so you can't possibly know what would happen if Epic didn't decide to kill the promotion.
 
^^^^

It doesn't matter who the artist is, a current hit album or single will not keep catalogue albums in the charts during Xmas. There simply is no room for them with the Xmas albums.

It's not my opinion. It's an historical fact. Catalogue albums, particularly when you do not have just one definitive version, can not sell enough to stay in the charts.

You are trying to suggest another hit single from Xscape will help Number Ones sell many more albums than normal. It would not. It would only help Xscape.
 
respect77;4060848 said:
I always thought at Christmas albums as a cheep shot at success and sales. It's something that is OK from the J5 but I think adult Michael is above that.

I agree. Michael was the trend setter, he wasn't going to go with the flock of sheep. He made a a very lucrative deal with Sony but it doesn't mean he was enthusiastic about all the projects the deal included such as the remixes and Christmas albums. He began doing something but he didn't seem pressured to finish that album. Glad Michael didn't finish it, he is better and above all that. Leave it to people who normally don't compose their songs like Céline Dion or Mariah Carey.
 
^^^^

It doesn't matter who the artist is, a current hit album or single will not keep catalogue albums in the charts during Xmas. There simply is no room for them with the Xmas albums.

Epic Records ****ed up massively by killing the promotion before the holidays. That is a historical fact.

Right now artists with more than current hit album:

Taylor Swift - 3 catalogue albums
Foo Fighters - 1 catalogue album
Pink Floyd - 2 catalogue albums
Garth Brooks - 1 catalogue album
Barbra Streisand - 1 catalogue album
Florida Georgia Line - 1 catalogue album
Ed Sheeran - 1 catalogue album
Lana Del Rey - 1 catalogue album
Eminem - 1 catalogue album
Blake Shelton - 4 catalogue albums
Luke Bryan - 1 catalogue album
Lady Antebellum - 1 catalogue album

There are more...
 
Snow White luvs Peter Pan;4060952 said:
I agree. Michael was the trend setter, he wasn't going to go with the flock of sheep. He made a a very lucrative deal with Sony but it doesn't mean he was enthusiastic about all the projects the deal included such as the remixes and Christmas albums. He began doing something but he didn't seem pressured to finish that album. Glad Michael didn't finish it, he is better and above all that. Leave it to people who normally don't compose their songs like Céline Dion or Mariah Carey.

Mariah does co-write most of her songs. Her Christmas album has 3 original songs, including the classic All I Want For Christmas Is You. She co-wrote them with Walter Afanasieff.

I think it would've been interesting to hear what MJ would do with a Christmas album. But his style over-all isn't totally fitting Christmas music, though we know MJ could pretty much pull off any style brilliantly.

BTW, The Lost Children has always given me this Christmas vibe musically. lol
 
I also think Christmas albums are a cheap shot especially for bigger names... I like the Jackson 5 album but I think it's enough
 
Epic Records ****ed up massively by killing the promotion before the holidays. That is a historical fact.

Right now artists with more than current hit album:

Taylor Swift - 3 catalogue albums
Foo Fighters - 1 catalogue album
Pink Floyd - 2 catalogue albums
Garth Brooks - 1 catalogue album
Barbra Streisand - 1 catalogue album
Florida Georgia Line - 1 catalogue album
Ed Sheeran - 1 catalogue album
Lana Del Rey - 1 catalogue album
Eminem - 1 catalogue album
Blake Shelton - 4 catalogue albums
Luke Bryan - 1 catalogue album
Lady Antebellum - 1 catalogue album

There are more...


You have included artists with BRAND NEW current albums. Their catalogue albums will be gone in a week or two as well. MJ's current albums is nearly 7 months old, in case you have forgotten.

Also, I notice, you have included quite a few SEASONAL catalogue albums in your list. Of course they will chart.

A 7 month old album, even with a new hit single, would not keep Number Ones or Essential in the charts. Why would it?

MJ is not here to help any promotion. Sony/The Estate have a massive disadvantage - which you also seem to forget.
 
MJ's current albums is nearly 7 months old, in case you have forgotten.

MJ is not here to help any promotion. Sony/The Estate have a massive disadvantage - which you also seem to forget.

Yeah, but there is no promotion since August 13, 2014 - video premiere and So You Think You Can Dance. The promotion was well and truly alive till they consciously made moves to kill it. Why they sent the song only to Urban Adult Contemporary radio stations? The song is not even Urban AC, it's a pop song! Makes no sense.

With no promotion and no radio airplay 2nd single didn't even had a chance to be a success. They decided back then not to release the 3rd single, just to put out 2nd with no promo and end with it.

Weird decisions, weird promotion tactics - that's Epic!
 
Croatia ARC Top 100

A Place With No Name #65
There Must Be More To Life Than This #55

Chart run (APWNN):
#81 - #49 - #32 - #31 - #20 - #23 - #26 - #31 - #32 - #42 - #63 - #56 - #65

Chart run (TMBMTLTT):
#58 - #56 - #57 - #66 - #67 - #64 - #55

http://radio.hrt.hr/emisija/arc-top-40/51/
 
You have included artists with BRAND NEW current albums. Their catalogue albums will be gone in a week or two as well. MJ's current albums is nearly 7 months old, in case you have forgotten.

Also, I notice, you have included quite a few SEASONAL catalogue albums in your list. Of course they will chart.

A 7 month old album, even with a new hit single, would not keep Number Ones or Essential in the charts. Why would it?

MJ is not here to help any promotion. Sony/The Estate have a massive disadvantage - which you also seem to forget.

I agree with you. Xscape is over 6 months old album and do record companies really promote any albums after six months?
I was thinking albums that were released around the same time as Xscape, such as Black Keys and Coldplay. Do those acts still do promotional stuff and record label promoting their albums? As far as I can see, promotional stuff is over for them too, I don't even see anything regarding U2 newest album, Mariah, or even for Barbra S.

Maybe it was planned to have massive launch for Xscape, which it was, but the thing is, fans didn't buy. If fans didn't buy after 1st month and after massive promotion, record company is not going to throw money into bottomless pit to get few extra sales. If they didn't get the sales after the first few months, then I think it is logical that they think no point to throw more money for promotion. After all, they work towards getting money to label, not throw it away.

Like you said, MJ is not here to promote, or make his videos, and even if he was, I don't think things are quite the same today in promo wise than they were when he did his last album. Because of the piracy and other stuff, musicians don't make money of albums, it is the tours and other endorsements that brings money home, but in this case it cannot be done for obvious reasons.
 
Maybe it was planned to have massive launch for Xscape, which it was, but the thing is, fans didn't buy. If fans didn't buy after 1st month and after massive promotion, record company is not going to throw money into bottomless pit to get few extra sales. If they didn't get the sales after the first few months, then I think it is logical that they think no point to throw more money for promotion. After all, they work towards getting money to label, not throw it away.

I agree that Onir's list is unfair, because artists like Pink Floyd, Taylor Swift, Barbra Straisand etc. have just released new albums, so that of course will give a boost to their catalog sales. Xscape however is 7 months old.

But I somewhat disagree with the above quoted because it makes it sound like Xscape was a flop. I'm not sure what Sony's expectations were for this album if they deemed it a flop after one month and written off promotion because of that. The album is still on its way to be one of the year's top 15 sellers globally and that with MJ not being here so how was it "a bottomless pit"? Record labels are sure aware that there are hardly any artists any more who sell a crazy amount of albums. Taylor Swift, I think, was the first (and so far only) artist this year who went platinum. And that with massive, massive promotion. She is everywhere basically. And they pulled her albums from Spotify so that people would buy them rather than listen to them there. Everyone else more or less struggled this year to produce sales, so I'm not sure what Sony (or you) thought about what sales Xscape would be able to produce for it not to be considered "a bottomless pit". It did very well, considering it was a posthumus album with formerly unreleased songs with the artist not being here to promote.

I think it's just that some promotion money could have been spent more cleverly and in a more effective way. Instead of a tacky "hologram" on top quality videos for example which create a buz and which attract people to watch them over and over again on YT. That's not even a matter of money, but more creativity, which is unfortunately terribly missing from MJ's posthumus videos.
 
^^Respect, you should know me better that that :D

I most certainly did not say in my post that Xscape was a flop, nor do I think so. What I meant that I think it is too late to promote Xscape because the way todays albums seems to come and go faster than you could blink your eyes. If people didn't buy in the first few months of the release after the massive promo, what makes you think that people would buy now if they put out a video? That is the money bit what I meant. They can sink million and millions on promo stuff, but as videos can be seen freely on utube, and songs can be listened in various sites, it doesn't meant that those people who see video that they are going to iTunes or amazon to order Xscape.


I'm thinking of that Xscape has sold 1,489,000 (ww) so how much money they actually earned?
iTunes, Apple takes a 30% cut of every sale. The remaining 70% is split between MJ and record label record label, physical retailers take roughly 30% of the suggested retail price. Again, the remaining 70% is split between MJ and his record label. (this is actually how TS makes her money but I think it applies to other artists too).

After all the musicians, producers and every other single person involved of making Xscape gets paid and advertising is paid, and other costs, how much money if left to use more for promotion?

What ever you may think of hologram, it made MJ talk of the town (so to speak), and that is what count in the business. They needed to put Michael's name out there and make it big. Promo for Xscape in the first few months was massive, noone can deny that they didn't put money for promotion back then.

No matter what they did or do past, present or future, there is always fans that argue things could have been done differently, but those fans don't think the whole picture. Where do they take the money to pay promos and how they are going to promote, and don't tell me that according to Forbes, MJ earned 150 million? And what makes you think that 1 more video (good or bad) would make any difference in sales wise?

Record labels put more effort on artists that are available to do concert tours and promo stuff, but it is different with MJ. He cannot do anything.
Unfortunately we are going to have to measure success of Xscape against other deceased artist's posthumous release, and Xscape did extremely well in many ways. This album had lots of money put into promotion and had great sales to compare any other deceased artist in recent years.
 
^ I don't disagree with you that the Estate/Sony had limited means to promote the album and obviously they have to do it cost-effectively (not spending more money than what they earn), but like I said I think some things were not even a matter of money, just a matter of ideas and creativity. And on that department they could have done better. OK, "hologram" made MJ the talk of the town. And what did they do with that? They could have released STTR as a single right after that or something but they did not. So I don't think it's about us "not seeing the full picture" just because we think some things could have done better - and I said already I do not mean spending more money but using the spent money better.

And what makes you think that 1 more video (good or bad) would make any difference in sales wise?

Actually one video can make a whole lot of difference to an album if it's a video that is interesting and attracts a big audience. All of MJ's posthumus videos have been pretty underwhelming so far. And that's not always a matter of budget. After all they hired a big name director for APWNN but the end result wasn't very creative or interesting.
 
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^ I don't disagree with you that the Estate/Sony had limited means to promote the album and obviously they have to do it cost-effectively (not spending more money than what they earn), but like I said I think some things were not even a matter of money, just a matter of ideas and creativity. And on that department they could have done better. OK, "hologram" made MJ the talk of the town. And what did they do with that? They could have released STTR as a single right after that or something but they did not. So I don't think it's about us "not seeing the full picture" just because we think some things could have done better - and I said already I do not mean spending more money but using the spent money better.

Actually one video can make a whole lot of difference to an album if it's a video that is interesting and attracts a big audience. All of MJ's posthumus videos have been pretty underwhelming so far.

I fail to understand what difference releasing STTR as single would have made?
They obviously wanted to sell the whole album, not singles. Fuss that hologram caused, made people aware of that MJ has an album out and who wanted, they bought the whole CD.

If you know how to make an interesting video which attracts a big audience, you have hit to goldmine.
No one can know for sure what the reaction from public is going to be before the actual release.
It is so easy to sit behind the computer and tell where they went wrong, instead of sitting into meeting room and decide what would be the best way so that at least most of the fans are somewhat happy with the result.

While I'm intrigued of the idea of animation video, but I'm 100% certain that people who wanted animated video would have found something wrong with it, and that goes with every single video, past, present and future.
 
I agree with you. Xscape is over 6 months old album and do record companies really promote any albums after six months?
I was thinking albums that were released around the same time as Xscape, such as Black Keys and Coldplay. Do those acts still do promotional stuff and record label promoting their albums? As far as I can see, promotional stuff is over for them too, I don't even see anything regarding U2 newest album, Mariah, or even for Barbra S.

What are you talking about? I'm talking about successful albums like Xscape, not flop albums like Mariah Carey. But even Jennifer Lopez flop album is promoted heavily with her latest single. Album released June 13, 2014, 3 singles were released, the last one September 23, 2014 - Promotion is still alive and very active. Although the album was a flop.

Coldplay - album was released 16 May 2014, 5 singles were released, last on 13 October 2014. Another single is planned for December 2014. - Promotion is still alive and very active.

Promotion for successful albums last for a year at least, for extremely successful albums even longer - Beyonce for example with re-release.
 
If you know how to make an interesting video which attracts a big audience, you have hit to goldmine.
No one can know for sure what the reaction from public is going to be before the actual release.
It is so easy to sit behind the computer and tell where they went wrong, instead of sitting into meeting room and decide what would be the best way so that at least most of the fans are somewhat happy with the result.

While I'm intrigued of the idea of animation video, but I'm 100% certain that people who wanted animated video would have found something wrong with it, and that goes with every single video, past, present and future.

It's also very easy to come back with an "if you know better why don't you do it" answer. Thing is I'm no video director, it's not my job to do interesting videos for posthumus MJ releases, I'm not the one paid for that either, but that does not mean I have no right to criticize a video. After all we are the audience, aren't we, so why should we not say if we find something underwhelming? I think all of the posthumus videos so far were boring and underwhelming and no, I do not need to be a video director to be allowed to state my opinion about that. APWNN has about 6 million views on YT. That says it all.
 
What are you on about Onir?
I asked do record companies promote albums that is released quite some time ago?

Coldplay can release all the singles they like but all members are alive and well.
They, among Jlo can do promo stuff such as going to chat shows talking about it,and other appearances to support singly releaes, but there is a little hitch in Michael's case, he can't. If the label is going to release a single, who is going to promote it and really what difference does it to make anyway?

You constantly compare MJ's posthumous albums to up and current artists, when you really should compare how did the other labels handled promo stuff to their deceased artists and how their actions compare to our situation.

Do other record labels releases many singles when they artist is not here any more?
I looked up some of them, and only Johnny Cash's latest album, they released 1 single.
 
It's also very easy to come back with an "if you know better why don't you do it" answer. Thing is I'm no video director, it's not my job to do interesting videos for posthumus MJ releases, I'm not the one paid for that either, but that does not mean I have no right to criticize a video. After all we are the audience, aren't we, so why should we not say if we find something underwhelming? I think all of the posthumus videos so far were boring and underwhelming and no, I do not need to be a video director to be allowed to state my opinion about that. APWNN has about 6 million views on YT. That says it all.

Of course you can state your opinion and criticise, but I just find the constant criticising daft and does it have to be on repeat? If label and the estate know how to make every single fan happy, I'm sure they would have done it, and at the same time, they would have had found holy grail of how to make successful video.

As a fair comparison to you APPN video views, LNFSG has 74,638,889 so obviously they found right people behind the video, but it doesn't meant it is going to happen every time. You cannot name any artist (living or dead, except MJ) that all the videos are great and the whole fan base is happy with them.
 
Of course you can state your opinion and criticise, but I just find the constant criticising daft and does it have to be on repeat? If label and the estate know how to make every single fan happy, I'm sure they would have done it, and at the same time, they would have had found holy grail of how to make successful video.

As a fair comparison to you APPN video views, LNFSG has 74,638,889 so obviously they found right people behind the video, but it doesn't meant it is going to happen every time. You cannot name any artist (living or dead, except MJ) that all the videos are great and the whole fan base is happy with them.

Where did I constantly criticize the Estate? In fact, I have been very supportive of the Xscape campaign. But I'm also going to say what I do not like. If you think they cannot do any better as far as videos go that's your opinion and that's fine, but I think there would be ways to do a lot better on that department.
 
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