Why was everything out of place/wrong with Invincible?

Lol you know your argument is flawed when MJFrenzy tears it to shreds
I'm not saying MJ didn't approve of the guy. I'm saying MJ approving of such an unexciting, no-name rapper, not once but thrice on the same record, just shows how little MJ cared, or how much his instincts had abandoned him.
 
I'm not saying MJ didn't approve of the guy. I'm saying MJ approving of such an unexciting, no-name rapper, not once but thrice on the same record, just shows how little MJ cared, or how much his instincts had abandoned him.
But “LTB” and Aquil Davidson are fine?

MJ “approved” and “un exciting no name rapper” for the lead single of Dangerous. I guess his instincts had gone by 1991?
 
But “LTB” and Aquil Davidson are fine?

MJ “approved” and “un exciting no name rapper” for the lead single of Dangerous. I guess his instincts had gone by 1991?
Again, those were short, quick bursts of rapping, they were great, and each guy was used once. Also, LTB was producer Bill Bottrell, so it was both a gag and a mystery.

The Fats raps are long, they stink lyrically and in terms of phrasing, and they're repeated twice, if not thrice, on the same album.

But hey, far be it from me to rain on the parade of the Fats Fan Club. I'm sure they'll get around to releasing his debut album someday.
 
Again, those were short, quick bursts of rapping, they were great, and each guy was used once. Also, LTB was producer Bill Bottrell, so it was both a gag and a mystery.

The Fats raps are long, they stink lyrically and in terms of phrasing, and they're repeated twice, if not thrice, on the same album.

But hey, far be it from me to rain on the parade of the Fats Fan Club. I'm sure they'll get around to releasing his debut album someday.
The Fats raps are each 8 bars long, and last around 20 seconds. They’re the same length as the rap portions of “Black and White” and “She Drives Me Wild.”

Quality aside, using LTB as a rapper on “Black or White” is just as much a mystery as using Fats on “Heartbreaker” and “Invincible.” A no-name artist somehow pops up on a Michael Jackson album? How did that happen?

I don’t like them much either, but I think you’re exaggerating the severity here just a touch.
 
We can take this discussion even further back if we want. Maybe not a "rap" but a no name (at the time) Patti Austin on It's The Falling In Love? A no name Siedah Garrett on IJCSLY.
 
I don’t like them much either, but I think you’re exaggerating the severity here just a touch.
I said it was an example of Invincible getting even the little things wrong. Even the raps were lame.
 
We can take this discussion even further back if we want. Maybe not a "rap" but a no name (at the time) Patti Austin on It's The Falling In Love? A no name Siedah Garrett on IJCSLY.
I never liked Patti Austin on It's the Falling in Love, they shouldn't have made the song a duet at all.

Siedah Garret was the writer of MITM so she deserved that chance in the spotlight.
 
I never liked Patti Austin on It's the Falling in Love, they shouldn't have made the song a duet at all.

Siedah Garret was the writer of MITM so she deserved that chance in the spotlight.
I think Siedah is wonderful, but let’s take a moment to mourn the loss of Whitney Houston on that song. I’ll never forgive her label for rejecting that offer.
 
I think Siedah is wonderful, but let’s take a moment to mourn the loss of Whitney Houston on that song. I’ll never forgive her label for rejecting that offer.
I do often wonder what a Whitney version would've been like. I wish they at least did an onstage duet or something at recorded party or something. She did spend time at Neverland so who knows...they might just have a song somewhere out there. Maybe in the storage
 
Lol you know your argument is flawed when MJFrenzy tears it to shreds
Hahaha. Yes. Let’s not forget the Black or White rap which was done by Bill Bottrell. I guess Michael didn’t care for that one either.

Why would he not care, yet spend longer than on any other one of his albums working on it? Doesn’t make sense. He did care, there were other issues which kept him from creating a more accomplished piece of work.

Edit: Just saw the other posts mentioning the Bill Bottrell argument.
 
Also medication can effect the voice, pain medication especially can make the throat/tongue dry. I wonder if that why his voice was raspier on this album? Could even have contributed to the miming of the HIStory tour! Let's face it, the poor guy would have had to have been taking strong pain medication for the treatment on his scalp.
The staccato vocal style (which wears out one's vocal cords) that he had adopted from the 'BAD' era onwards also contributed to his raspier, more hoarse voice on the 'Invincible' album.
I think Siedah is wonderful, but let’s take a moment to mourn the loss of Whitney Houston on that song. I’ll never forgive her label for rejecting that offer.
Her label (Arista Records) did the right thing for her at that time.

If Whitney Houston recorded and released this duet with Michael Jackson, then that would have overshadowed her at that time.

Especially, in a period when she was trying to establish her own career while promoting even more her own, distinct image.

Remember, she released her second album ('Whitney') just two months before the release of the 'BAD' album.
 
I am not huge fan of the rap-parts in general. - I do see why he added some of the bridges - but they rarely add anything to me. - It always just can't wait for the rap to be over.
 
About the Whitney Houston I feel it is, yet another, missed opportunity.

If I was at her label I would see it as a huge chance and great promotion for her album Whitney. - I am quite sure sales would boost. Maybe both for the single IJCSLY and for her album. - I see it as a win-win.

And - it would have taken an already good song to another level. Bigger starquality and better voices couldn't be found for a male-female duet in the 80's.
 
Her label (Arista Records) did the right thing for her at that time.
If Whitney Houston recorded and released this duet with Michael Jackson, then that would have overshadowed her at that time.
Especially, in a period when she was trying to establish her own career while promoting even more her own, distinct image.
Remember, she released her second album ('Whitney') just two months before the release of the 'BAD' album.
Gotta disagree here. Participating in the follow-up to the best-selling album of all time would have been incredible promotion. It wouldn’t have “overshadowed” her in the slightest, in my opinion.
 
I do often wonder what a Whitney version would've been like. I wish they at least did an onstage duet or something at recorded party or something. She did spend time at Neverland so who knows...they might just have a song somewhere out there. Maybe in the storage
That would be another sharing with Jermaine. 😁 Iman was in his !984 Do What You Do music video before Remember The Time a few years later. Jermaine & Whitney recorded several songs together. On a related note Jermaine & Whitney recorded the first version of Don't Look Any Further, but it was never released. It later came out as a duet by Dennis Edwards (from The Temptations) & Siedah Garrett, which was a R&B hit and has been sampled a lot of times.
 
Gotta disagree here. Participating in the follow-up to the best-selling album of all time would have been incredible promotion. It wouldn’t have “overshadowed” her in the slightest, in my opinion.
It would have certainly overshadowed Whitney Houston.

Take Siedah Garrett for example:

Although she was the one who recorded and released that duet with him, meaning she participated in the follow-up to the best-selling album of all time, yet that duet did not become incredible promotion for her in her later career.

On the contrary, that duet did not help her to expand her career, she was permanently overshadowed by him, she did not manage to establish her own image, she did not make a name for herself, and people have known Siedah Garrett only because of that duet with Michael Jackson.

Even his own sister Janet Jackson had turned him down (in the early '90s) when he asked from her to record and release a duet with him.

As Janet Jackson stated, she had the same fear (i.e., being overshadowed by him), and she did the right thing at that time when she refused to record and release a duet with him.
 
It would have certainly overshadowed Whitney Houston.
How is that? At the time Whitney's 1st album (1985) was the biggest selling debut album in history. She was already big before Bad even came out. Her 2nd album Whitney debuted at #1 on the Hot 200 & R&B album chart. That was when very few albums had done so. Whitney also had 7 #1s in a row on the Hot 100, the first act to do so.
 
Even though her star was still rising, Whitney was already a substantial name in the industry. Siedah, on the other hand, was still mostly known as a studio singer and songwriter. Comparatively, I think a duet with MJ would’ve boosted Whitney further, where Siedah was drowned out.
 
I may be wrong, but wasn't Whitney Houston the 2nd choice for IJCSLY after Barbara Streisand didn't do it.
 
You can not possibly compare Whitney Houston at the height of her carrer with SiedahGarrett...

A HUGE mega star (WH) would not be overshadowed by a duet with MJ... It would have been an equal situation where they would both benefit IMO.
 
Get It by Stevie Wonder was released as a single in the USA. It made it to #4 on the R&B chart, but got little if any Top 40 airplay and only got to #80. After Stevie's In Square Circle album from 1985, pop radio mostly ignored his records after that and Stevie primarily got R&B airplay. Same for Stevie's duet with Whitney We Didn't Know, no pop radio airplay.
 
A parent is less susceptible to catch colds and flu from his/her children because he/she develops protective antibodies against these viruses that cause these types of colds and flu.

A parent also has an improved regulation of immune factors (such as, cytokines).

Also, medical experts noted that being a parent increases personal happiness that also reduces stress levels, which in turn can boost even more a parent's immune system.
Oh, I see.
So my girlfirend, who works in the kindergarten, should, by your logic, possess an immune system of Hulk and Superman combined.
Weird how she, along with all her coworkers, gets sick considerably more than people who don't work in kindergarten.
Or are you implying that this magical bond happens only between biological parents and children. That is some hard voodoo stuff we are delving into here.
 
Heartbreaker's chorus: ,,That girl I can't take her
Should have known she was a heartbreaker
That girl I can't take her
Should have seen right through her she's a heartbreaker
That girl I can't take her
Should have seen it coming heartbreaker
That girl I can't take her
Should have seen right thriough her
She's a heartbreaker,,. The phrase ,, That girl i can't take her ,, is repetead 4 times and the word ,, heartbreaker,, is also repetead 4 times. Not to mention most of the sentences are fairly similar. Not as weird ,but similar to Bad's also repetitive chorus.

Privacy's chorus:,,I need my privacy (yeah yeah)
I need my privacy (yeah yeah)
So paparazzi (yeah yeah)
Get away from me (yeah yeah), just get away from me,,. Now tell me this is not repetitive. This is similar to how repetitive Why you wanna trip on me is for that matter. Invincible has some brilliant moments lycris-wise (Threatned,Butterflies) but still,every one of his albums
does.(tho maybe not at Threatened's level). Dangerous has great lycris for Who is it and History has amazing storytelling for Little Susie.

You do realize that choruses are supposed to have short and on point lyrics, right?
Have you seen lyrcis to the choruses of Michael's best songs? Sometimes it's just one sentence or even just one word.
Please take a look at lyrics from verses and come back then.
 
Oh, I see.
So my girlfirend, who works in the kindergarten, should, by your logic, possess an immune system of Hulk and Superman combined.
Weird how she, along with all her coworkers, gets sick considerably more than people who don't work in kindergarten.
Or are you implying that this magical bond happens only between biological parents and children. That is some hard voodoo stuff we are delving into here.
Haha, So now everytime I catch a cold from my kid, I have one more reason to feel like I failed as a parent, did not develop strong enough antibodies!!

Also, medical experts noted that being a parent increases personal happiness that also reduces stress levels, which in turn can boost even more a parent's immune system.
Can I please meet those parents whose stress levels went DOWN! after having kids so that I can learn how to stop running around like a headless chicken trying to get everything working at home!!

PS: sorry we are way off topic, but really!!
 
Man whenever an Invincible thread gets started, it gets sidetracked within a few pages haha

I do think a shorter tracklist would have helped Invincible immensely
 
Privacy might be one of MJ’s worst songs ever. Threatened I like especially the small part in this is it.
 
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