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Why people shouldn't have Guns at home (merged)

Re: Why people shouldn't have Guns at home

I do often wonder if a war comes to American soil - how will those without defend themselves though? Don't really expect government too. Not considering to be in that position someone would have to do something drastic first. But in today's day and age with so many terrorist running amuck that is a valid point.
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somehow i doubt that would happen. bit of a SIFI type film senario.terrorist dont fight as standard armys. we have all seen how they operate and they cant be stoppd in the logical sense of a standard war.bit of a strange argument for having guns when using the argument of living out in the woods etc is logical enough. at the end of the day if society want its ppl to have guns then they have to put up withthe consequences of allowing easy access to them. such as school shootings etc and saying that its a terrible thing yet not wanting to do anything about it interms of ownership. unfortunalty u cant have one without the other.

do often wonder if a war comes to American soil - how will those without defend themselves though? Don't really expect government too.
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well thats what a national army/reserve etc is for

oh brother :lol: Some places put so much artificial crap inside the meats (vitamins, weight boosters, meds, preservatives, etc...) that you have to wonder why are so many people sick all the time and why are there so many people with fertility issues. All those drugs are just part of big business for the government. They sure as hell aren't needed or good for people. When you kill your own you know exactly what you are eating and it's so much healthier than store bought food. There isn't an arguement in the world that can dispute that as far as I'm concerned.
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yeah thats very true. u know its organic or as organic as u are gonna get
 
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Re: Why people shouldn't have Guns at home

I can NEVER live in a house where i know a gun is present, seriously. It is just too disturbing for me.

As for the US, i really think they need to introduce some strict a$$ laws towards owning a gun!
 
Re: Why people shouldn't have Guns at home

Think it's like with almost everything in life.
To deal with responsibility right needs some training.
If ppl give ppl more rights than they do make sure that they also get the right education to use these rights and not abuse them... then it gets dangerous.
I want ppl to be able to have a gun in their home if it makes them in any way happier. Feeling more safe then is an illusion to me (as L.J. said before there are statistics proving it's really dangerous).
Also I agree with L.J. not everybody should be able to just get a gun.
I'd connect education to it.
You want a gun? You first have to learn about it. Let the NCA or whomever give free courses in which ppl can learn FIRST.
BUT I also completely agree with Shannon in that her family should be allowed to have one or more and use it for their own good which is simply noone elses bad.

In my home there will never be a gun. But I like that there are ppl who like to hunt as I do like some fresh meat on my plate at times too.
 
Re: Why people shouldn't have Guns at home

DanceOfZenab1994 said:
I can NEVER live in a house where i know a gun is present, seriously. It is just too disturbing for me.
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That is how I feel as well. It comes down to that I'm not used to seeing guns around. Even the police where I live don't carry guns LOL, so why should I ?

Someone in this thread said something about what happened to the good ol' fistfights lol, or bow and arrows, Indian style :yes:
 
Re: Why people shouldn't have Guns at home

browneyedgirl said:
mariemarie said:
or bow and arrows, Indian style :yes:
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That's even scarier than a gun, LOL.
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you can't trace that ish


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Re: Why people shouldn't have Guns at home

Call me crazy but I got this funny impression of my husband scalping someone :lol: My husband is half Native American Indian.

Bows and Arrows injure animals and they suffer - guns put them down quickly. The chances of missing with a bow and arrow is considerable higher too (In my case anyway). I can't maniplate a bow well - takes too much arm strength that I obviously am lacking. I have tried though.

I tend to be more afraid of knifes then guns personally. With a gun I'll live or die it's God's will. With a knife I would be held to the will of the man holding it long before God steps in.
 
Re: Why people shouldn't have Guns at home

I agree with the fact that private gun control should be banned. I still dont get why they arent banned in the USA.
The goverment tries everything to protect it citizens, underage drinking and drugs are forbidden and helmets and seatbelts are inveted to stop us from being harmed in accidents, but guns are allowed?

there are some that might argue that guns are for self defence, but if no one except for civil workers were allowed to carry a gun, there would be no need for this self defence.

countries where guns are allowed often have a much higher crime rate, than countries where private gun controll is forbidden.

untill private gun controll is forbidden, people will continue to kill human beings
 
Re: Why people shouldn't have Guns at home

snorlaaax said:
untill private gun controll is forbidden, people will continue to kill human beings
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You are extremely naive if you honestly believe that. People kill humans all the time and do it without guns. Like I've already stated guns don't kill people. People kill people. Free will is an interesting thing.

Oh and are you gonna pay for my families food and their following health issues from the substandard crap the government puts on the shelf and call food?
 
Re: Why people shouldn't have Guns at home

Shannon said:
You are extremely naive if you honestly believe that. People kill humans all the time and do it without guns. Like I've already stated guns don't kill people. People kill people. Free will is an interesting thing.
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Of course people kill people, but the guns help them doing it. There's a difference between thinking about it and actually doing it and owning a gun might push them that one step further of actually taking the action. There people who get offended and upset very easily and are not able to controll there emotions and behaviour and they could so upset about something to go like ''BANG'' without thinking about the consequences, it's just that one second of holding that gun and their emotions which might influence their way of thinking.

And what about the Virginia Tech shooting incident? What if that guy didnt own a gun? maybe if private gun controll was forbidden, he just sticked to the IDEA of doing it instead of really shooting all those innocent people.

Yes, people do kill people, but it happens too often with the help of a gun
 
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Re: Why people shouldn't have Guns at home

Nah I don't buy that. If a person is unstable then they are responsible for their own actions. If they choose to pick up a gun that is on them - no one person can control the actions of another. If they want a gun they will get one. It's cheaper, easier and faster to get a gun the illegal way. Legal weapons aren't the issue.

Besides those who toy with the death of others will find other ways to carry out their wants. Weapon of choice or convience is secondary to the real problem. Its that mental issue that needs to be addressed not gun control.
 
Re: Why people shouldn't have Guns at home

snorlaaax said:
Of course people kill people, but the guns help them doing it. There's a difference between thinking about it and actually doing it and owning a gun might push them that one step further of actually taking the action. There people who get offended and upset very easily and are not able to controll there emotions and behaviour and they could so upset about something to go like ''BANG'' without thinking about the consequences, it's just that one second of holding that gun and their emotions which might influence their way of thinking.

And what about the Virginia Tech shooting incident? What if that guy didnt own a gun? maybe if private gun controll was forbidden, he just sticked to the IDEA of doing it instead of really shooting all those innocent people.

Yes, people do kill people, but it happens too often with the help of a gun
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Those are some great points there and the sad thing is it's true. How many times has there been stories of people at home who have snapped and shot a loved one only to recount the experience later on wishing that they never had a gun. Heck there's people who have pulled the trigger and then realised the damage they have done and tried to help that loved one.... but a bullet to the brain is not exactly something people can perform first aid on. Whereas a knife wound can actually have pressure applied to it and a slimmer of hope.

Shannon said:
Nah I don't buy that. If a person is unstable then they are responsible for their own actions. If they choose to pick up a gun that is on them - no one person can control the actions of another. If they want a gun they will get one. It's cheaper, easier and faster to get a gun the illegal way. Legal weapons aren't the issue.

Besides those who toy with the death of others will find other ways to carry out their wants. Weapon of choice or convience is secondary to the real problem. Its that mental issue that needs to be addressed not gun control.
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but that's the thing Shan, if they're mentally unstable... then they're not responsible. The finger then gets pointed at the people who didn't keep them medicated (for their own good :rolleyes: ) or the finger is pointed at the person who sold them the gun, or to the government for allowing gun sale to begin with.


With tighter gun control laws it makes it easier to deal with illegal weapons and the sale of illegal weapons. If for example the law was that purchasing an illegal gun = a high fine and jail time, it would act as a deterrent (especially if you get a few people as examples of how serious it's to be taken). If the law was made that selling of an illegal weapon = jail time plus accessory charges to every incident that becomes linked to that weapon . That too would make a lovely deterrent.

I don't like the motto "gun's don't kill people, people kill people" cause the truth of the matter is... it is guns which kill.
Guns have a variety of cultures that come with it and sadly most of those cultures are not positive.
 
Re: Why people shouldn't have Guns at home

I don't like the motto "gun's don't kill people, people kill people" cause the truth of the matter is... it is guns which kill.
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that saying makes no sense as guns were invented to kill and nothing else. its not like a car where if they are used incorectly they become a lethal weapon and they were created to cause harm
 
Re: Another reason why people shouldn't have Guns at home

I heard about this. How stupid can some people be?
 
Re: Another reason why people shouldn't have Guns at home

Sounds like a legitmate accident - sad. Seriously, wth kind of event is that? God bless him but it is not a reason to enforce gun control.

Merging with the other thread.
 
yeah i heard abut that aswell. what a joke letting a kid hold one of those guns. anyone knows theres no way they can control such a weapon. who wants an machine gun other than a crazy nut. wanna play with guns they should join up. it kinda sums it up when the right to have a gun is monre important than protecting kids. talk about messed up priorites

but it is not a reason to enforce gun control.
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i find that bizarre. how many innocent ppl is society gonna allow to die because it deems its not a good enough reason to enforce control. how many deaths is a good enough reason?
 
I'm inclined to agree Elusive, I don't think I'll ever understand.
Some folks will say but it's part of our constitution and our culture, but you know what, so was slavery once...
Society changes over time as we place different values on different things at different times in history.
The gun laws and the reasons for keeping guns in america are so old and dated. They refer to a different time and a different culture, where the weapons weren't as advanced as they are now, and where mass production was nothing like it is these days. Heck even population wasn't the same. Oh well... we live and we learn, who knows maybe one day people will finally say "what the?? that many people have died from gun related incidents? avoidable gun related incidents? we need to change that!"

but until they do, I guess most of us just get to sit back and watch :no:
 
When you offer to feed my family then you can have a say on wether or not I own a gun. I won't starve because there are assholes in the world with no common sense or respect for lethal weapons. It's a trade off of death sentences. Sorry, my family means more than that.

How the hell can you compare slavery? A gun is a thing - a slave is a human being. My hunting doesn't effect other human beings in any way, shape or form. It provides for my family. And don't think the damn government doesn't get their cut too. They get taxes from the sale of the weapons, sale of the ammo, they get the fees for licenses, deer tags, etc.. the list goes on and on. Even this cheaper way the government still gets theirs. It's money making so why would they abolish it?

Ya'll keep saying society provides and we don't need to hunt but it's simply not true. Number one, society charges too much - but then they have to eat too don't they? Number two, government has to keep the money maker alive and pump the animals full of drugs before they are slaughtered. Guess the drug makers have to eat too? Funny how their pockets can afford it and mine can't.

Blah, ya'll use anything thrown up in the news to support your opinions but what about the woman who just beat two out of three of her adopted children to death? What's that? No guns. What about the crazy ass who drove their car with three young children strapped into their car seats off a bridge then swam to safety leaving the kids to die because he thought his wife was cheating? What's that? No guns. What about the man that held a gernade in an old ladys lap and pulled the pin? What's that? No guns. What about the bomb found at my nephews school? What's that? No guns. What about the man who kidnapped, raped and murdered a 3 year old child and her 11 year old sister with his bare hands? What's that? No guns. What about the man who attacked me with a knife? What's that? No guns again.

For every instance of violence there may or may not be weapons. For every instance of violence there is always free will. When society corrects the difficiency of human nature there will be no more violence.

We are simply from different cultures and your arguements are as uneducated to me as mine are to you. It's just what we are used too for survival. What is normal place and necessary for me isn't for you.

Neither answer will resolve the issues. There will always be violence until society is placed in check.
 
Re: Another reason why people shouldn't have Guns at home

Shannon said:
but it is not a reason to enforce gun control.
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control doesn't mean a ban. you keep defending your right to hunt for food, and that is a legitimate reason for you to own and use weapons. but why would you be against stricter regulation, especially against e.g. assault weapons? i don't see how it would affect your situation.

when you look at the difference in gun crime between America and countries that have appropriate regulations (e.g. EU), the black and white argument of "guns don't kill people, people kill people" fizzles out when you see reduced availability of easy methods to cause harm.

would you not agree with the regulations like mandatory psychiatric evaluations, age restrictions, training and gun-club requirements, documented proof of need, and allow police sponsored raids of civilians rumored to posses gun surpluses?
 
Re: Another reason why people shouldn't have Guns at home

arXter said:
control doesn't mean a ban. you keep defending your right to hunt for food, and that is a legitimate reason for you to own and use weapons. but why would you be against stricter regulation, especially against e.g. assault weapons? i don't see how it would affect your situation.

when you look at the difference in gun crime between America and countries that have appropriate regulations (e.g. EU), the black and white argument of "guns don't kill people, people kill people" fizzles out when you see reduced availability of easy methods to cause harm.

would you not agree with the regulations like mandatory psychiatric evaluations, age restrictions, training and gun-club requirements, documented proof of need, and allow police sponsored raids of civilians rumored to posses gun surpluses?
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Has anyone posted any statistics? Regardless, I tend to be selfish in this one because it effects the right to support my family and yes I am basing it on a total ban. Ban is what some of the others were referring to.

I wouldn't agree to ban weapons but yes restrictions are fine and we do have some. Don't think evaluations would work well unless like handguns you would have to go through a waiting period to get a gun. Then it would constitue a violation of privacy for some but if they want a gun then they should be stable so I don't have an issue with that.

Age restrictions are in place I believe you have to be 21 to purchase a gun (at least in Maryland). However, there isn't an age limit for hunting so children can possess the weapons their parents or whomever purchases. Kinda a catch 22 if the parties involved are irresponsible.

Training should be mandated - absolutely. And it's not (in Maryland). Any dumb ass without a record can purchas a gun legally without training. Not too sure about gun-clubs :unsure:

Documented proof of need sounds dumb - maybe a better explaination of that one is needed. What defines need and what of collectors? They shouldn't have to give up a ww1 weapon from their display cabinet any more than I'd have to remove Michael from my collection.

I believe they already do conduct raids when gun surpluses are suspected. How they go about these I don't know but they do have raids especially when drugs and/or radical groups are involved.

You mentioned assualt weapons - those I have no use for, sawed off shotguns, ak-47s none of that applies to my reasoning because they are soley for killing people. Can't hunt with them so they are of no use to the practical world. I could care less if they were banned or whatever. They are for war not homes.

But regardless of the controlled methods there is still a thriving market of illegal weapons that needs to be dealt with.

And none of this addresses the problem of violence in society.
 
Shannon said:
Has anyone posted any statistics?
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as the stereotypes would suggest. from the UN:

www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/seventh_survey/7sc.pdf

United Nations Survey of Crime Trends,. Murders with firearms,
(per capita) covering the period 1998 - 2000

rank by Country, and amount per capita.



#1 Colombia:0.61784

#2 South Africa:0.496008

#3 Jamaica:0.324196

#4 Venezuela:0.316138

#5 Russia:0.201534

#6 Mexico:0.130213
#7 Estonia:0.107277

#8 Latvia:0.10393

#9 Lithuania:0.102863
#10 Belarus:0.0983495

#11 Ukraine:0.094006
#12 Papua New Guinea:0.0838593
#13 Kyrgyzstan:0.0802565
#14 Thailand:0.0800798

#15 Moldova:0.0781145
#16 Zimbabwe:0.0749938

#17 Seychelles:0.0739025
#18 Zambia:0.070769
#19 Costa Rica:0.061006

#20 Poland:0.0562789
#21 Georgia:0.0511011
#22 Uruguay:0.045082

#23 Bulgaria:0.0445638
#24 United States:0.042802
#25 Armenia:0.0425746

#26 India:0.0344083

#27 Yemen:0.0336276
#28 Dominica:0.0289733

#29 Azerbaijan:0.0285642

#30 Finland:0.0283362
#31 Slovakia:0.0263303

#32 Romania:0.0250784
 #33 Portugal:0.0233769
#34 Malaysia:0.0230034

#35 Macedonia, 0.0229829

#36 Mauritius:0.021121
#37 Hungary:0.0204857

#38 Korea, South:0.0196336

#39 Slovenia:0.0179015

#40 France:0.0173272

#41 Czech Republic:0.0169905

#42 Iceland:0.0168499
#43 Australia:0.0150324
 #44 Canada:0.0149063
#45 Chile:0.014705
#46 United Kingdom:0.0140633
 #47 Italy:0.0128393
 #48 Spain:0.0122456

#49 Germany:0.0116461
#50 Tunisia:0.0112159
 #51 Netherlands:0.0111538
#52 New Zealand:0.0111524
#53 Denmark:0.0106775
#54 Norway:0.0106684
#55 Ireland:0.00946215
#56 Switzerland:0.00921351
#57 Indonesia:0.00910842
#58 Greece:0.0075928
#59 Hong Kong:0.00550804
#60 Japan:0.00499933
#61 Saudi Arabia:0.00397456
#62 Qatar:0.00115868






I wouldn't agree to ban weapons but yes restrictions are fine and we do have some.
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but not enough, certainly not when you look at the stats for a progressive country like the US.

Documented proof of need sounds dumb - maybe a better explaination of that one is needed.
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definition of need is taken on an impromptu judgement from the law (depending on the country) based on individual circumstances and pretty much basic human logic. your situation would constitute a legitimate need, and the example of collectors would be an anomaly (i'd assume they'd allow it on terms of deactivating the guns). won't affect the bigger picture, though.

But regardless of the controlled methods there is still a thriving market of illegal weapons that needs to be dealt with.

And none of this addresses the problem of violence in society.
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one would be awesomely naive to think that regulating or even banning guns would somehow eradicate violence in human nature. this shouldn't even be an issue in this particular discussion.

i say that the "guns don't kill people" argument is black and white, and so is the one on the other extreme. of course we need to look at the violence motivated by poverty and race-related anger for example, but we must also take into account the easy access to firearms.

the point is that control/regulation does reduce gun-related crime through reasonable means (which we seem to more or less agree on). and i strongly agree with cracking down on the black market.
 
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arXter said:
the point is that control/regulation does reduce gun-related crime through reasonable means (which we seem to more or less agree on). and i strongly agree with cracking down on the black market.
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and this is what I was trying to say....


I'm not talking about a gun ban, there are many people who do the right thing and jump through all the hoops to make sure that they can provide for their family etc. But you can't deny that when they tighten the law and make it harder to just purchase a gun... that it does weed out some of the "wrong kinda people"
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7717545.stm

news_logo.gif

Father 'murdered' by son, aged 8
An eight-year-old boy has been charged with the murder of his father and another man in the US state of Arizona.
Police in St Johns, a small community north-east of Phoenix, said the child had confessed to shooting the two men with a .22-calibre rifle on Wednesday.
"Who would think an eight-year-old kid could kill two adults?" said St Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick on Friday.
A judge has ordered a psychological evaluation of the boy, who is being held at a juvenile detention centre.
He did not have a record of bad behaviour at school, and there had been no indication of any problems at home, prosecutors said.
Mr Melnick said police officers had arrived at the child's home within minutes of the shooting on Wednesday evening.
They found one victim just outside the front door and the other dead in an upstairs room, he added.
The second man is believed to have been lodging in the house.
The boy had gone to a neighbour's house and said he "believed that his father was dead", Apache County prosecutor Brad Carlyon said. Police later obtained a confession from the boy for the two killings.
His defence lawyer, Benjamin Brewer, said police had overreached in questioning him without representation from a parent or a lawyer, and that they had not advised him of his rights.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/americas/7717545.stm

Published: 2008/11/08 14:37:35 GMT

© BBC MMVIII
 
That's sad. Maybe there was an altercation between the father and the other man???
 
This is what can happen when there are guns in the home. It's so easy to pick it up and kill someone out of anger. "I'm gonna pick of my gun and shot you down if you ever come near my house." The access is too easy imo.

I would have been scared to have a gun in my house. What if someone close to me totally snaps and decides to shot everyone? lol, it's a stretch and it sounds crazy, but it does happen.

Where I live people have guns if they are hunters or if they are in the military, and of course we have the underground market as everyone else.

Something I'm wondering; how can someone be pro-life and pro-guns at the same time? It doesn't make any sense. =/

I understand that people want to have guns because they like to hunt for they own food + it is a sport and a hobby of some kind. Keeps you close to nature etc. But there should be some kind of ban in some kind of way. I do not have the answer, but someday I really wish we could all lay down our weapons and stop the crazy that are happening outside our homes.
 
Something I'm wondering; how can someone be pro-life and pro-guns at the same time? It doesn't make any sense. =/
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same as those that are pro life and pro death penalty lol make your mind up which one is it lol
 
Hmm.. I think there is a difference between someone aborting their child and someone protecting their home and/or family. I do not agree with abortion outside of rape or to save the mother's life, but I also don't want to see innocent kids born into a crap family. I think it sucks that there is even such a thing as abortion, but oh well. I'm not an adamant pro-lifer, but I certainly wish people would realize there are consequences for your actions, and becoming pregnant is no "accident' and it doesn't "just happen". And while I don't own a gun and unless something happens, probably never will own one, I see comparing pro-life to pro-guns as apples and oranges. I'm not trying to be all preachy and get into the issue of abortion, but I do think someone can be pro-life and pro-guns.

With that said, I would hope the people who are pro-guns simply mean they would like to have one in their home for the worst-case scenarios, not just to feel high & mighty.

On the issue of gun control, I'm sorry, I think regulation is fine. If you want to legally own a gun, you go through the necessary hoops. These people who want to walk around carrying guns on them... have you seen how rude people are when waiting in line, or when they get cut off on the road? The thought of one of these maniacs behind the wheel carrying a gun just scares me. I'm not afraid of the gangsters and criminals... I'm afraid of the guy who thinks he's a normal everyday joe pulling out his gun simply because some guy swerved in front of him and cost him the green light.
 
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