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why do ppl say INVINCIBLE was a low point in micheal's career??

It is very UNFAIR to treat Invincible as a failure in Michael’s career, it is compared with albums sold in the 80s and 90s whereas Invincible MUST be treated as a best seller in the 00s because it sold over 10 million copies. There were NO concerts/Tour (which is very essential to support album sales), there were NO music videos (only YRMW), there were NO promotions, Tommy Mottola’s conflict, etc… etc... etc... And above all of that still Invincible is one of the best selling albums nowadays! Imagine if it got proper promotions! The media wants to tarnish Michael’s image. STOP TREATING INVINCIBLE AS A FAILURE! I remember reviews of Invincible were mostly favorable when it was released, the media just wants you to think the opposite (brain washing).
 
ok I'm a long time lurker here and maybe I should get on board on this particular discussion lol I'm an Incincible era fan so I could really say that I like this album--to tell you the truth It's better than Thriller--in my book.

Given the history of other MJ albums that came before Invincible you could say it is 'low' but when you just look at the album as it is. It's a good-decent MJ album and I also agree with waht Arabian Knight's stated.

The promotion, we could say, was a failure but the album did well on its own.
 
Invincible is his worst album (if you leave the albums before OTW out) that's why it was a low point + the fact that there was only one single (cry doesn't count) and no world tour or concerts except the MSG concerts...

however: although Invincible is Michaels bottom album, it remains and still is a good album and a lot better than the chart albums nowadays. (like I would give Thriller 97 stars out of 100 and Invincible like 91 stars out of 100 or so...)
 
Invincible could have easily outsold Thriller but did not, because of three reasons :-

1. Lack of Singles and Music videos that could have exposed the beauty if invincible to the people

2. Lack of a promotional tour.

3.Increase of Internet based piracy during that time

However it still remains one of the highest selling albums of this decade and that says enough about Invincible
 
I think its a lot better than Dangeous, definitely. There are more quality songs on Invincible than on Dangerous in my opinion. And he uses his voice in a variety of ways on Invincible... in ways he hasn't on other albums.
 
Whaaaat? But as the story goes he wrote Speechless to his children after having a water balloon fight with them! You gotta leave it on just for that!

I like speechless & cry and unbreakable, butterflies, heaven can wait, you rock my world, break of dawn, you are my life, whatever happens... privacy had to grow on me.

Pez said:
i still think the album drags on for way to long, take off:
cry, lost children, don't walk away, privacy and speechless and you have a pretty good album :)
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I remember when Invincible came out, I got very excited. I loved it when I heard You Rock My World on the radio for the first time. You could also win tickets for the Madison Square Garden concert ont he radio. A few days before the album release, there was a free listening of the Invincible album on the Internet, and to be honest I was a little bit disappointed. It was not what I expected. I'm not going to say what I don't like about the album, because I have already said it so many times on other Invincible related threads, but it was a bit of a dissapointment. However, I did like You Rock My World and it has a very infectuous beat and I loved hearing it playing in clubs. The video was great too, his last official short film. :( Although, truth be told it was the first short film in which his face really didn't look good. His face looked very stiff as if he just had a facelift and his nose looked really small. Furthermore, the video did bring nothing new. It was a bit of a mixture of the Smooth Criminal short film and the Blood On The Dancefloor short film. Nevertheless, it was a great short film. I love the part where the curtain goes up and the part where you can hear the sound of the brooms and the part where he goes down the stairs. I love the intro too where he is eating with Chris Tucker. My favorite part is where he slaps the girl's ass. :) :) That's my Mike.


I do want to say that the 'One More Chance' short film looked very exciting. It was something new, since I have never seen a Michael Jackson short film where he is dancing in a fancy restaurant.
 
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The sales aren't that bad either. I could be wrong but I googled a lot of things when Lil' Wayne made his little comments and what I came up with was that Michael's least selling album sold 2 million copies in the first week and went on to sell around 9 million before his death. So that's not that bad at all. I mean Lil' Wayne proudest moment was selling 1 million copies in one week so MJ's lowest point in his career is way higher than a very popular artist peak? That's not too shabby at all
 
MoonGlider said:
Well said. People can express their love for Michael in different ways. Joining a fan forum is just one of those ways. I've been a huge fan of Michael my whole life. The instant news of his death was reported my friends and family called and messaged me because they knew how much he meant to me. I joined the forum recently, not because my interest in Michael is recent, but because the emotions and frustrations caused by Michael's death overwhelmed me. I needed an outlet to grieve, and I wanted to do so with other people who loved Michael and would be respectful of his memory.
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same here. there's too much emphasis these days on online fandom. it's not the best measure of anything, least of all fandom. do y'all think every rabid fan of Michael's in the rest of the world is on the internet? come on, some of these fans have lives... some of them are grandmas and single moms... not everyone has the time to hit the boards. not all of them looked for the boards before his death. if they're here now, welcome them. don't revile them.

Beethoven, Michaelengelo, even Elvis attracted fans long after their deaths. that's how it goes.
 
^^^me too. There was another MJJ board I was apart of in 2003. I believe it was Sony's official website for him, but at the time, I had decided that I really wanted to be apart of his fan club and be a apart of fan related activities but then 7 days later,the site was shut down!

At the time, I stopped looking for forums, but when the concerts came up, I wanted to search for some fans who probably knew about some travel deals....Either way, back to the original topic. I loved Invincible. Some songs I could have done without, but I think some of the dated sounding songs came about because they previously didn't make the cut of a previous album, so he put it on there.
 
Mystic said:
Speechless and TLC are horrible and should not have been on there. Dear God I hope Michael wasn't planning on performing those...such a waste of time. Much rather see the other songs from Invincible.

Anyways, Invincible is considered a low point because Thriller sold 100+ million, with ITW, Bad, Dangerous, and HIStory selling between 20 to 50 million. HIStory is the best selling double disc album. BotDF is the best selling remix album.

Invincible sold 10 million. Half of is lowest previous sales (I think).
Also, too many ballads.
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If ever Michael read this comment, I think he'd feel hurt. I believe those two songs, Speechless and The Lost Children, are the only ones he wrote on his own. The rest of the album were collaborations.
 
You can do a search on Invincible they are #1 in Jet magazine what songs the fans like.
 
I love both Speechless and The Lost Children! they're like little gems. especially Speechless. and Prince -- aww he must have been a baby then -- talks in TLC.
 
1. STILLMATICNas (Columbia)2. WORD OF MOUFLudacris (Disturbing Tha Peace)3. BETTER DAYSJoe (Jive)4. STATE PROPERTYVarious Artists (Roc-A-Fella)5. THE REBIRTH OF KIRK FUNKLINKirk Franklin (Gospo Centric)6. GHETTO LOVEJaheim (Divine Mill)7. TARANTULAMystikal (Jive)8. 8701Usher (Arista)9. PAIN IS LOVEJa Rule (Murder Inc.)10. SONGS IN A MINORAlicia Keys (J)11. DENIALS DELUSIONS ANDDECISIONSJaguar Wright (MCA)12. GENESISBusta Rhymes (J)13. INVINCIBLEMichael Jackson (Epic)14. BIG BOI & DREPRESENT ... OUTKASTOutKast (Arista)15. NO MORE DRAMAMary J. Bilge (MCA)16. SOUL SISTAKeKe Wyatt (MCA)17. INFAMYMobb Deep (Loud)18. DOGGY BAGLil' Bow Wow (So So Def)19. GAME FACEMaster P (No Limit)20. BELIEVEYolanda Adams (Elektra)-------------------
1. WORD OF MOUF Ludacris (Disturbing Tha Peace)
2. INVINCIBLE Michael Jackson (Epic)
3. EXPERIENCE Jill Scott (Hidden Beach)
4. GAMEFACE Master P (No Limit)
5. MUSIC & ME Nate Dogg (Elektra)
6. MAHOGANY SOUL Angie Stone (J)
7. FAITHFULLY Faith Evans (Bad Boy)
8. 8701 Usher (Arista)
9. PAIN IS LOVE Ja Rule (Murder Inc.)
10. BULLETPROOF WALLETS Ghostface Killah (Epic)
11. NOW Maxwell (Columbia)
12. AWESOME Temptations (Motown)
13. TARANTULA Mystikal (Jive)
14. SOUL SISTA KeKe Wyatt (MCA)
15. THE BLUEPRINT Jay-Z (Roc-A-Fella)
16. INDECENT PROPOSAL Timbaland & Magoo (Blackgrouncl)
redir
17. STILLMATIC Nas (Columbia)


18. GENESIS Busta Rhymes (J)
19. SONGS IN A MINOR Alicia Keys (J)
20. NO MORE DRAMA Mary J. Blige (MCA)

------------
1. INVINCIBLE Michael Jackson (Epic)
2. WORD OF MOUF Ludacris (Disturbing Tha Peace)
3. EXPERIENCE Jill Scoff (Hidden Beach)
4. GENESIS Busta Rhymes (J)
5. BULLETPROOF WALLETS Ghostface Killah (Epic)
6. PAIN IS LOVE Ja Rule (Murder Inc.)
7. FAITHFULLY Faith Evans (Bad Boy)
8. PROPHET JONES Prophet Jones (University)
9. MAHOGANY SOUL Angie Stone (J)
10. INDECENT PROPOSAL Timbaland & Magoo (Blackground)
11. 8701 Usher (Arista]
12. THE LIFE Ginuwine (Epic)
13. AWESOME Temptations (Motown)
14. THE BLUEPRINT Jay-Z (Roc-A-Fella)
15. SOUL SISTA Ke Ke Wyatt (MCA)
16. SUPERHERO Brian McKnight (Motown)
17. NO MORE DRAMA Mary J. Blige (MCA)
18. ALMOST FAMOUS 8 Ball (Interscope)
19. THE GREAT DEPRESSION DMX (Ruff Ryders)
20. DIRTY MONEY UKG (Jive)
---------

 
The reason they say it is a low point is because when you look at it career wise, Invincible WAS a low point for michael.

In terms of Sales, critical reception and overall success, Invincible would have to rank pretty low, it's just facts.
 
It was a low point because of the issue with Sony. No promo, no tour, not enough videos. I believe the first single released wasn't Michael's choice. There was not enough budget that he refused to appear in his own music video. He had stopped becoming a label priority so it would definitely have that effect on his career. It is remarkable that they even managed to have the 30th Anniversary special and the album signing at Virgin Megastore...
 
Sony knows what they did....that album coulda went so far.
There are soo many beautiful songs...and that voice!! *sigh* I love this album
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonGlider
Well said. People can express their love for Michael in different ways. Joining a fan forum is just one of those ways. I've been a huge fan of Michael my whole life. The instant news of his death was reported my friends and family called and messaged me because they knew how much he meant to me. I joined the forum recently, not because my interest in Michael is recent, but because the emotions and frustrations caused by Michael's death overwhelmed me. I needed an outlet to grieve, and I wanted to do so with other people who loved Michael and would be respectful of his memory.


indranee said:
same here. there's too much emphasis these days on online fandom. it's not the best measure of anything, least of all fandom. do y'all think every rabid fan of Michael's in the rest of the world is on the internet? come on, some of these fans have lives... some of them are grandmas and single moms... not everyone has the time to hit the boards. not all of them looked for the boards before his death. if they're here now, welcome them. don't revile them.

Beethoven, Michaelengelo, even Elvis attracted fans long after their deaths. that's how it goes.
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That's how I felt too. By MoonGlider
 
I am a newbie to this site. Not because i am a new fan, but because I don't normally go on fan sites, just not my thing. But I was disturbed by MJs death and felt like I needed to communicate with others who felt the same. I respect all of you who have been here for a long time and enjoy seeing the diversity of opinions on every topic. I love Invincible. My faves are Whatever Happens, Speechless, Butterflies, 2000 watts(what!), Invincible and Don't Walk Away. I couldn't believe it when I read bad reviews. The press just didn't like Michael Jackson, plain and simple. But the press are idiots. IF they weren't they would have real jobs.
 
callmerose said:
I am a newbie to this site. Not because i am a new fan, but because I don't normally go on fan sites, just not my thing. But I was disturbed by MJs death and felt like I needed to communicate with others who felt the same. I respect all of you who have been here for a long time and enjoy seeing the diversity of opinions on every topic. I love Invincible. My faves are Whatever Happens, Speechless, Butterflies, 2000 watts(what!), Invincible and Don't Walk Away. I couldn't believe it when I read bad reviews. The press just didn't like Michael Jackson, plain and simple. But the press are idiots. IF they weren't they would have real jobs.
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Well said :clapping:
 
musically i enjoyed Invincible tho I would have loved to hear what Mike originally wanted us to hear, but just being honest, the U Rock My World vid was not Mike at his most creative
 
I think a lot of fans - myself included - were disappointed because it doesn't seem as if MJ put his heart into it, the way he did with his previous albums and it has nothing to do with the albums promotion or lack thereof.

You hear stories about MJ sleeping on the studio floor when he was recording Bad and Dangerous... but with Invincible even Rodney Jerkins himself said that making the album was a very "stop-start" process, which indicates that MJ perhaps wasn't as committed to this album as he was with previous releases.

A handful of the tracks feel like 'real' MJ, particularly Speechless, The Lost Children and YRMW. Is it just a coincidence that two of the aforementioned tracks were the only ones solely written and produced by Michael himself?
I feel some of the other tracks seem more as if they were written for Michael by outside writers. I have my doubts about how involved MJ was in the writing process of songs like Whatever Happens, Heartbreaker, 2000 Watts etc.

Whilst I don't think the material on Invincible is as strong as his previous albums, in a way I do appreciate it on another level. His vocal deliveries on songs like Heaven Can Wait and You Are My Life are pure art. Every single line has little nuances and quirks - he was such a master at this and I think he displays this on Invincible more so than any other album.
 
MattyJam said:
I think a lot of fans - myself included - were disappointed because it doesn't seem as if MJ put his heart into it, the way he did with his previous albums and it has nothing to do with the albums promotion or lack thereof.

You hear stories about MJ sleeping on the studio floor when he was recording Bad and Dangerous... but with Invincible even Rodney Jerkins himself said that making the album was a very "stop-start" process, which indicates that MJ perhaps wasn't as committed to this album as he was with previous releases.

A handful of the tracks feel like 'real' MJ, particularly Speechless, The Lost Children and YRMW. Is it just a coincidence that two of the aforementioned tracks were the only ones solely written and produced by Michael himself?
I feel some of the other tracks seem more as if they were written for Michael by outside writers. I have my doubts about how involved MJ was in the writing process of songs like Whatever Happens, Heartbreaker, 2000 Watts etc.

Whilst I don't think the material on Invincible is as strong as his previous albums, in a way I do appreciate it on another level. His vocal deliveries on songs like Heaven Can Wait and You Are My Life are pure art. Every single line has little nuances and quirks - he was such a master at this and I think he displays this on Invincible more so than any other album.
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MJ didn't have children when he recorded bad and Dangerous. I am sure that sleeping on the studio floor was not compatible with his idea of being a good father. TO me Invicible sounds like the "real" MJ. As for the songwriting, MJ always gives credit if some one else is the primary author of a song, for instance Butterflies on Invincible. If he were not the primary writer of a song, he would not have put his name first.
 
Tenacious D said:
The reason they say it is a low point is because when you look at it career wise, Invincible WAS a low point for michael.

In terms of Sales, critical reception and overall success, Invincible would have to rank pretty low, it's just facts.
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This may be true in a sense. But I think it's ridiculous anyone put that type of expectation on him, or any artist. I don't know what people expected when they put this album on, but as someone who went in without any preconceived notions, I was taken back by how good it was. Current, upbeat, funky, smooth... the second half of the album is a tad lop-sided, but for a disc filled with hits, I can let that go.

There was just no need to call it a flop, because it wasn't. And even if it didn't sell as well as his other albums, so what? So much changed between the mid-90's and 2001 when this album came out. Napster, CD burners, music sharing and an influx of brand new musical talent. An artist of his age who had been in the industry as long as he had in that market, selling 10 + million albums is about the same as pushing many more albums years before.

An artist will have a creative high and a creative low, but MJ's creative low was only low to his own standards. It'd be like Michael Jordan playing a game where he only scored 40 points and helped the team win instead of scoring some unearthly amount and breaking six records in the process. Does that make him a crappy player? Of course not. Just like Invincible wasn't a flop.

If people had said "This album is a creative lowpoint, but still very good in its own right", that would be just fine. But they called it crap. I really don't know what people expected to hear with that album though. Especially casual listeners who sometimes go as far as to say he didn't do anything creative since Off The Wall and Thriller. Like... he only made two good albums or something?
 
You can look at Invincible in two different ways.

Artistically, or Financially.

I choose to look at it artistically, because I could give a crap about whether it made bookoo bucks or not. I feel like Invincible was like a fresh awakening in Michael's career. The sound was new, unique and different. People didn't want Michael to be 'different' and 'new' though. They wanted him to be just like he always was. But he is a person, and he was evolving and changing just like all of us do in all the ways of our life.

He was a daddy first and a musician second, so I'm sure like someone else said, he wasn't able to put in the 110% dedication to his album. Before I'm sure he thought of his albums and his music as his babies, but that's hard to do when you have REAL babies now.

Also, like someone else stated, Invincible was simply 'ahead' of it's time. Something like 2000 Watts would get a TREMENDOUS amount of air play now. It is 'hip' and has the sound that is popular now. Maybe it wasn't so much back then. I really feel like if they would give Invincible a good re-release, it would be a tremendous success. But now it would probably be for all the wrong reasons. Not because people were truly wanting to purchase the music, but because people are all trying to get a piece of Michael in a way...or maybe not. Maybe I am wrong here!

I am a lover of Invincible. It is my favorite Michael album really.
 
I also think the tracklisting was poorly thought-out. How did songs like Xscape and the excellent We've Had Enough not make it past the cutting room floor when you have dirge like Privacy and Cry on the album???

Someone was making their space cakes the day they made that decision....
 
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