What you think about the 30th Anniversary concerts?

[kreen]

And also i founded strange that Michael always close his mouth with his arms and bends...

He did that because, around 2001, he had some procedure done on his face that paralyzed his lips muscles for a while. If you watch him on the YRMW video, at the New York Invincible signing event or at the 30th anniversary special, he hides his mouth every time he smiles or laughs, because his upper lip basically can't move. The movement did come back later on, but for a while it was scary as there was a fear among fans some nerves had been severed and it would never come back.

Also, hiding his mouth was a way to hide the lip-synching, as the footage would be seen by a more casual audience who might not take kindly to the fact MJ wasn't singing live.

 

[kreen]

his vocals are some of his best he's ever delivered but I can't see that being the whole reason.

The entire show is lip-synched, excluding the Jacksons reunion part, and even that is heavily edited and studio-enhanced.

 

[Richard76]

He did that because, around 2001, he had some procedure done on his face that paralyzed his lips muscles for a while. If you watch him on the YRMW video, at the New York Invincible signing event or at the 30th anniversary special, he hides his mouth every time he smiles or laughs, because his upper lip basically can't move. The movement did come back later on, but for a while it was scary as there was a fear among fans some nerves had been severed and it would never come back.

Also, hiding his mouth was a way to hide the lip-synching, as the footage would be seen by a more casual audience who might not take kindly to the fact MJ wasn't singing live.

procedure??? you mean on his nose?

 

[KOPV]

The entire show is lip-synched, excluding the Jacksons reunion part, and even that is heavily edited and studio-enhanced.

There were parts of his solo act that was sung live and later dubbed with studio vocals for television.

 

[filmandmusic]

I can’t help it I find the performances embarrassing and it bothers me a lot that youtube recommends these concerts to me. Same for HIStory and to some extent Dangerous tours. There is so much footage of these tours on youtube. Most of this footage isn’t live and you get to see a lot of comments how Michael lip synced his entire career.
What we seen on youtube is not Michael the genius energetic live performer but some sort of cheap knock off. I simply will never understand how a guy that feels completely natural and comfortable on stage was ok with doing mime shows. There can only be one reason and I think he was kind of forced to do these tours while he didn’t really want to do any of the tours post bad, it is completely half arsed for the most part.

If I was a dictator I’d forcefully remove and forbid every post bad tour concert footage online

 

[Hiker]

I simply will never understand how a guy that feels completely natural and comfortable on stage was ok with doing mime shows

What are you talking about ! Have you seen the dancing, the stage presence? Have you talked to people who saw these shows live? I am glad he decided to not sing live, instead focused on electrifying performance. Michael is so much more than just a singer. He already gave more than everything he could to both Dangerous and HIStory tours, what more do people want!? I am guessing you are aware that he had laryngitis during HIStory tour, even I know that!

If I was a dictator I’d forcefully remove and forbid every post bad tour concert footage online

I am so glad you are not a dictator!! Now that I know they exist, I would not want to live in a world without the YT footage of all the post-Bad shows.

Now coming to the subject of 30th anniversary concerts, I don't care much about those. There was clearly something going on with Michael and it's clear his heart was not in it. He was not able to give his 100% to these concerts and it shows.

 

[Dorian]

What are you talking about ! Have you seen the dancing, the stage presence? Have you talked to people who saw these shows live? I am glad he decided to not sing live, instead focused on electrifying performance. Michael is so much more than just a singer. He already gave more than everything he could to both Dangerous and HIStory tours, what more do people want!? I am guessing you are aware that he had laryngitis during HIStory tour, even I know that!

I can’t agree with this.

 

[Hiker]

I can’t agree with this.

which part? But whatever it is we just have to agree to disagree. This whole lip singing business has divided the fans like no other. Good thing is Michael gave us every combination of performances, so you can limit yourself to enjoying the singing in pre-Bad era while some of us can choose to take the best of every era.

There is a whole discussion about his HIStory tour voice here -
https://www.mjjcommunity.com/threads/what-happened-to-michaels-live-voice-around-history.105426/


PS: Sorry if I sound angry here, but complaining about lip singing is one of the fastest way to get me all worked up and mad at the world. I am going to go and watch some Dangerous tour footage to calm down.

 

[ChanceToDance]

The entire show is lip-synched, excluding the Jacksons reunion part, and even that is heavily edited and studio-enhanced.

TWYMMF was live, no?

 

[AlwaysThere]

I wish they used more footage from September 7th, to be honest. He constantly covers his mouth and does no dance moves on the 10th despite that being the night he's sober. The amateur versions of each night are both better than the edited version IMO. Also the Britney bashing seems unnecessary.

Nothing against her in a general sense. She just sounds HORRIBLE there.

 

[filmandmusic]

What are you talking about ! Have you seen the dancing, the stage presence? Have you talked to people who saw these shows live? I am glad he decided to not sing live, instead focused on electrifying performance. Michael is so much more than just a singer. He already gave more than everything he could to both Dangerous and HIStory tours, what more do people want!? I am guessing you are aware that he had laryngitis during HIStory tour, even I know that!


I am so glad you are not a dictator!! Now that I know they exist, I would not want to live in a world without the YT footage of all the post-Bad shows.

Now coming to the subject of 30th anniversary concerts, I don't care much about those. There was clearly something going on with Michael and it's clear his heart was not in it. He was not able to give his 100% to these concerts and it shows.

Well I was mainly talking about the 30th anniversary concerts. I really don’t want much, just live singing that is all. If he sat on a stool singing ballads for 2 hours I would be over the moon in joy.
It is true there is something for all of us but that is only in theory because we have almost no footage of pre dangerous tour shows, so I have a right to complain

Well since you enjoy the post bad shows so much I will leave it on youtube, I’m a very soft dictator

PS I saw HIStory tour live twice! Not a bad day out mind. It was worth it for MJ’s entrance alone, that ‘s always epic.

 

[Hiker]

If he sat on a stool singing ballads for 2 hours I would be over the moon in joy.

Just imagining Michael sitting on a stool and singing got me rotfl! Though the in-chair performance of RTT is one of my favorites, too bad it was also not live singing.

It is true there is something for all of us but that is only in theory because we have almost no footage of pre dangerous tour shows, so I have a right to complain

True! That was very insensitive of me! Let's hope some of Thriller era stuff gets released with Thriller 40.

PS I saw HIStory tour live twice! Not a bad day out mind. It was worth it for MJ’s entrance alone, that ‘s always epic.

OMG! You never mentioned that! Then you know what I am talking about! I am so envious now, you got to see Michael live twice! No amount or quality of YT footage can beat that.

 

[zinniabooklover]

I really don’t want much, just live singing that is all. If he sat on a stool singing ballads for 2 hours I would be over the moon in joy.

Just Michael and his voice. That would be enough.

In truth, if Michael was still here I can't see him ever doing something like this even though I think it would work brilliantly. For every fan that would not want to see this type of performance from Michael I'm sure there must be many who would love it. His fanbase is so huge and so varied. If he did a show full of ballads, Hollywood show tunes, low-key jazzy type stuff, something a little bit torch song, maybe a handful of mid-tempo songs to change up the pace a little bit ... I think it could be awesome. I do think two hours is way too long. An hour and 20 mins, 90 mins, tops. Then you've got what could be a wonderful showcase for that voice. Forget the dancing, just focus on that beautiful voice. Could have been epic.

It is true there is something for all of us but that is only in theory because we have almost no footage of pre dangerous tour shows, so I have a right to complain

I want that early stuff. I'm not too sure about Victory but the rest of it, yes. Including BWT 1987 - all of it.

 

[Hiker]

If he did a show full of ballads, Hollywood show tunes, low-key jazzy type stuff, little bit torch song, maybe a handful of mid-tempo songs to change up the pace a little bit ... I think it could be awesome. I do think two hours is way too long. An hour and 20 mins, 90 mins, tops. Then you've got what could be a wonderful showcase for that voice. Forget the dancing, just focus on that beautiful voice. Could have been epic.

It's funny, I sometimes think This Is It could have been like that. I have heard that his voice was back and sounding great again. He was obviously much older and could not beat the energy of his own performance when he was in his 30s, that's just nature. I am sure he was aware of complaints from fans about live singing. So could have been good opportunity to fix that. But well, coulda woulda shoulda

 

[zinniabooklover]

It's funny, I sometimes think This Is It could have been like that. I have heard that his voice was back and sounding great again.

Oh gosh, TII. That's a whole other thing. I love the film. Saw it many times and I adore it. Live vocals on HN and IJCSLY, for the rest it's miming, playback, whatever. I know he's been quoted as saying he wanted to do 90% live vocals for TII. This makes me feel miserable. I don't see how he could have even attempted to do that. That's too much pressure for him. I don't think he could have delivered that. He could do live vocals if it was a low key show like I just described but TII was not going to be that type of show.

I never saw Michael live so I didn't realise how much stuff in TII was not new. For example, the start of TWYMMF, I thought that was a new arrangement they came up with to accommodate Michael's older voice and his changing energy levels. In fact, the first time I saw the film I thought the whole song was gonna be sung like that. Was gutted when it changed into the normal version (although it's really good and the staging is fab). Did not realise he'd been doing that version since Grammy's 1988 (which I didn't watch). Did not realise how old the J5 medley was. Now I realise that TII was pretty much Michael's usual show. Although I do think it looked awesome and it's so theatrical and it was beautifully conceived as far as I could tell. It looked great cos it was an indoor venue and a lot smaller than the stadiums he normally had to play in. Michael was too successful for his own good. As a performer he would have been better off in these smaller venues but how could that ever work given the size of his fanbase?

And his dancing in TII is great, imo. Yes, he's just walking through some parts but that's pretty normal. Don't get me wrong, I'm not convinced Michael could have delivered 50 shows. I think that was always going to be too much. But in the film I think there are some good performances. TII was going to be full on, not a low key thing at all. To me it looked like it was going to be the best version of his show yet (with the exception of BWT 1987 because ... live vocals). It certainly has the best version of Thriller that I've seen. Exciting, spooky, wild, moody.

But live vocals? I don't think that would have happened.

 

[Hiker]

Although I do think it looked awesome and it's so theatrical and it was beautifully conceived as far as I could tell.

That's how all the performances are, theatrical and beautifully conceived. That's why I get so mad when people complain about live singing because I am convinced that if Michael could do it and if he thought that would make a better performance he would have done it. But he decided to lip sing either due to health issues or because the artist in him decided that was better for the show.
I have not seen TII, don't think I can handle it. But from the snippets, yeah it was the usual stuff. There was too much at stake to try something completely new. I guess it would have been something in between Dangerous/HIStory and 30th Anniversary show.

 

[mj_frenzy]

This whole lip singing business has divided the fans like no other. Good thing is Michael gave us every combination of performances, so you can limit yourself to enjoying the singing in pre-Bad era while some of us can choose to take the best of every era.

Oh gosh, TII. That's a whole other thing. I love the film. Saw it many times and I adore it. Live vocals on HN and IJCSLY, for the rest it's miming, playback, whatever. I know he's been quoted as saying he wanted to do 90% live vocals for TII. This makes me feel miserable. I don't see how he could have even attempted to do that. That's too much pressure for him. I don't think he could have delivered that. He could do live vocals if it was a low key show like I just described but TII was not going to be that type of show.

I never saw Michael live so I didn't realise how much stuff in TII was not new. For example, the start of TWYMMF, I thought that was a new arrangement they came up with to accommodate Michael's older voice and his changing energy levels. In fact, the first time I saw the film I thought the whole song was gonna be sung like that. Was gutted when it changed into the normal version (although it's really good and the staging is fab). Did not realise he'd been doing that version since Grammy's 1988 (which I didn't watch). Did not realise how old the J5 medley was. Now I realise that TII was pretty much Michael's usual show. Although I do think it looked awesome and it's so theatrical and it was beautifully conceived as far as I could tell. It looked great cos it was an indoor venue and a lot smaller than the stadiums he normally had to play in. Michael was too successful for his own good. As a performer he would have been better off in these smaller venues but how could that ever work given the size of his fanbase?

And his dancing in TII is great, imo. Yes, he's just walking through some parts but that's pretty normal. Don't get me wrong, I'm not convinced Michael could have delivered 50 shows. I think that was always going to be too much. But in the film I think there are some good performances. TII was going to be full on, not a low key thing at all. To me it looked like it was going to be the best version of his show yet (with the exception of BWT 1987 because ... live vocals). It certainly has the best version of Thriller that I've seen. Exciting, spooky, wild, moody.

But live vocals? I don't think that would have happened.

Criticism to his lip-sync (in the HIStory Tour) mainly refers to the ballads/mid-tempo songs where he did not have to focus on dancing and performance.

He actually did not have to dance at all in that case, so these songs should have been performed fully live, according to many fans.

Or, at least in that case he should have used pre-recorded vocals which are meant to give a more live feel suitable for stadium/arenas performances.

Also, they created the 'This Is It' shows in such a theatrical and grandiose way chiefly because they wanted to minimize (in terms of time) Michael Jackson's actual dancing and performance on stage.

Lots of visuals and theatrics, many video themes played on giant screens, a lot of introductory dancing from his backup dancers, etc, were all meant to fill the time of the entire performance in order for Michael Jackson to not have to perform and dance a lot due to his health issues at the time.

 

[Hiker]

Criticism to his lip-sync (in the HIStory Tour) mainly refers to the ballads/mid-tempo songs where he did not have to focus on dancing and performance.

He actually did not have to dance at all in that case, so these songs should have been performed fully live, according to many fans.

Well, in theory yes, but singing also takes energy, plus the set list was probably designed in such a way that Michael gets to recharge during these 'slow' songs for the energetic performance later. All I am saying is I don't think Michael took these decisions out of laziness or was ok with a sub-par performance, at least not for Dangerous or HIStory. Either he genuinely believed that lip singing will lead to better show (which I agree), or he was not able to sing live due to health issues.

 

[filmandmusic]

OMG! You never mentioned that! Then you know what I am talking about! I am so envious now, you got to see Michael live twice! No amount or quality of YT footage can beat that.

It’s been so long ago, what is left is just a vague memory lost in time.
The second time I stood near the first aid post, I remember medical people coming in with stretchers every couple of minutes. I remember thinking about the expenses they made to see this show only to faint after a couple of tracks losing their good spot and maybe 15 minutes of performing. I would be so pissed

 

[kreen]

procedure??? you mean on his nose?

Or more generally on his face, I don't know. But obviously something went wrong.

 

[kreen]

There were parts of his solo act that was sung live and later dubbed with studio vocals for television.

It's possible, as I never watched the fan-made recordings of the shows, only the television special. Do you remember what songs from his solo set he did sing live?

 

[kreen]

TWYMMF was live, no?

Not on the television special; maybe it was when he did it on stage, but in that case the live singing was replaced with the studio track for the TV special.

 

[kreen]

Either he genuinely believed that lip singing will lead to better show (which I agree), or he was not able to sing live due to health issues.

It's well-established from numerous sources -- including MJ himself ("I don't like to tour, I go through hell touring") that MJ didn't want to tour to support the albums. And since it was obviously much easier to lip-synch, and since the fans and the media let him get away with it, that's what he did. I love MJ as much as the next guy, but the truth is that, regarding live performances and touring, he took the easy way out. The fact there was dancing in his act is no reason not to sing : you can both move and sing live (ask James Brown), and he could have certainly sung some of the slowest number that don't involve dancing (Heal the World, for instance).

If he were still alive today, he couldn't get away with those all-lip-synching shows. With social media, videos of him miming would make the rounds, and he'd get a lot of flack for it.

If you compare TII to any of his previous tours, as far back as the Victory tour, you realize that MJ basically never changed his act. Once a particular song was done on stage in a particular way, it was set in stone forever. "Now we'd like to do the old songs, the old-fashioned way!".

 

[Hiker]

MJ himself ("I don't like to tour, I go through hell touring")

All I heard was "I love to tour!"

regarding live performances and touring, he took the easy way out

Oh! I could not disagree more! If you really watch any of the performances, there is nothing 'easy' about them. He gave more than 100%. It is also a well known fact that he was a perfectionist, and by definition they don't accept anything sub-par, leave alone something so high profile that is tied to his reputation.

you can both move and sing live

Try doing that for 2hrs again and again and then talk to me!

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

I enjoy listening to them because, in my opinion, it’s one of the only above average bands Michael has ever had. However, on a performance front, they’re embarrassing and should never be commercially released. The entire show is mimed (half of the J5 songs were re-recorded after the fact because Michael’s live vocals were below par), the “You Rock My World” choreography is terrible, and it includes footage from when Michael was very obviously under the influence. Also, the fact that one audience had to sit through Britney Spears singing “The Way You Make Me Feel” should qualify them for a partial refund.

This is the first time ever hearing this take. Why did you think Michael's bands were under average? Genuine question

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

Well, in theory yes, but singing also takes energy, plus the set list was probably designed in such a way that Michael gets to recharge during these 'slow' songs for the energetic performance later. All I am saying is I don't think Michael took these decisions out of laziness or was ok with a sub-par performance, at least not for Dangerous or HIStory. Either he genuinely believed that lip singing will lead to better show (which I agree), or he was not able to sing live due to health issues.

The thing I see people do a lot is that they generalize Mike and lump his health together with every other performer on earth not realizing, or conveniently forgetting, that Michael had multiple ailments (and even addictions) that made it very difficult for him to both dance and sing at the same way he did on his earlier tours or in the studio. Even if it was a slow song and what not he just wasn't capable of doing it. I don't understand why that's so hard to understand. Would you have him trying to sing sounding out of breath, off pitch, croaky? A decision had to be made. He chose to focus on still delivering a performance.

I find it so odd how one can say MJ took the easy way out after singing live and dancing like no one else since he was 7 well into his late 30's..

 

[zinniabooklover]

If you compare TII to any of his previous tours, as far back as the Victory tour, you realize that MJ basically never changed his act. Once a particular song was done on stage in a particular way, it was set in stone forever. "Now we'd like to do the old songs, the old-fashioned way!".

I'm new to Michael's live stuff. Ngl, I've been shocked to see how things just didn't change that much. At the moment I'm wildly excited by BWT 1987 and also Triumph. These are great shows. I always thought the Jacksons were just disco / R&B so it's been great for me to watch Triumph and see that they were so much more than that. But seeing stuff that Michael is still doing all those years later, I don't really understand that. Quite a few things that I saw in TII, that I assumed were new things, have turned out to be things from the early 80's.

I know the shows did evolve to some extent. Musicians are on record, talking about how they tweaked the songs. Dancers and choreographers are on record talking about how new dance content was inserted into the show. But so much stays the same. I'm so confused by that.

Fancy stadium shows are not my thing so I don't know how normal this is. Maybe other stadium artists also do this, I wouldn't know. But it looks weird to my eyes. I love Michael to bits but this is one aspect of his work that I really struggle to understand.

 

[filmandmusic]

Michael had the talent to be the most exciting live performer but he lacked the courage and creativity to pull it off.
But I have to say I’m not familiar with how much other artists changed their shows over the decades.
If only he was a bit more adventurous with the songs he picked but it were always the same. That Motown medley was in the act since the mid 70s, he could have easily changed it up with making different medleys.

I also don’t know how other artists promote their new albums but logically in my eyes you would perform the entire new album and then add in some hits as an encore at the end. That would be exciting.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

Michael had the talent to be the most exciting live performer but he lacked the courage and creativity to pull it off.
But I have to say I’m not familiar with how much other artists changed their shows over the decades.
If only he was a bit more adventurous with the songs he picked but it were always the same. That Motown medley was in the act since the mid 70s, he could have easily changed it up with making different medleys.

I also don’t know how other artists promote their new albums but logically in my eyes you would perform the entire new album and then add in some hits as an encore at the end. That would be exciting.

Michael was one of the most exciting live performers ever to grace the stage. People who actually went and watched his concerts can attest to that. People from celebrities to fans and causal fans all said the same thing. Watch that Billie Jean clip from the Victory Tour and hear how they're talking about him and the shows.

 

[filmandmusic]

Michael was one of the most exciting live performers ever to grace the stage. People who actually went and watched his concerts can attest to that. People from celebrities to fans and causal fans all said the same thing. Watch that Billie Jean clip from the Victory Tour and hear how they're talking about him and the shows.

The victory tour is no doubt a thing to behold. That leaked Toronto show is my fave MJ concert